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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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I knew someone would argue this. But I'm not talking about in terms of sales.

I'm talking about, when the Gamecube came out, the Big Four upcoming releases were Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash

And when the Wii came out, the Big Four upcoming releases were Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash.

And I would bet money that when we get a real, full Wii U reveal, you know what the highlights are probably gonna be? Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash.

Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash are the four franchises Nintendo goes to when they want to show something off. Kirby and Pokemon probably sell better than Metroid (hell, Pokemon probably sells better than Zelda), but Kirby usually comes later in the game, and Pokemon kinda does its own thing on handhelds.

None of this makes any sense. Pokémon doesn't count because it's on a handheld...? Kirby isn't a big release because it "comes later in the game"? What?

By any metric (sales, popularity, whatever), Nintendo's "big three" will always be Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda, followed by things like Donkey Kong and Kirby. Metroid definitely isn't obscure, but it's not top three or top four material.
This ^^^

Plus Pokemon is actually the 2nd biggest selling gaming franchise to date, 2nd only to Mario. So yeah, it out-sells Zelda ... by a large amount actually.

And Black-Wind:

- Three animes by three premiere studios
- CGI TV spot with high airtime
- Bundled-in stand
- 400+ AR cards
- Dozens of top-tier voice actors
- Hours of dialogue
- Hours of orchestral music
- Five of Japan's best composers
- Special cases in NA
- Special box

That all costs money. KIU was a huge budget game by Nintendo standards. Absolutely. And it was Sakurai's game, to boot.
Not gonna go point-for-point on this (I don't think half of the things listed costed much for a company like Nintendo).

I never said that it didn't have a good amount of money behind it, I just said you seem to be overestimating the amount.

Like with your "by Nintendo standards" bit ... how's this game's budget something that compares to games they make the actually take 4 years to get out with more complex game play mechanics and larger teams? Nintendo is well known for making games with a lot of money behind them and like I said, this is the first big game they have that can be passed off as a new IP for the 3DS so of course they're willing to make some meaty promotional stuff for it. I expect nothing less for w/e comes for the WU.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Me said:
Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash are the four franchises Nintendo goes to when they want to show something off.
.

Sales, popularity, whatever aside, Nintendo treats Mario, Metroid, and Zelda as their front-runners.

When the DS first came out, it came with a demo for Metroid Prime Hunters.
When they revealed the Wii, the first thing they showed was Metroid.
When they revealed the Wii U, the first thing they showed was Zelda.
Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Skyward Sword, and Other M all had a significant stage presence at E3 press conferences, whereas I doubt you'd ever see them play Pokemon on stage or have Kirby as the "And one last thing!" reveal.

That's all I'm saying.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
they did?
Behind-doors tech demo at E3 2005.

They show Metroid because it's the most technically demanding* game they have at any time. Metroid IV for GBA, Prime for Gamecube, Hunters for DS, Prime sequel for Revolution.

*the most immediately apparent, anyways
 

cednym

Banned
.

Sales, popularity, whatever aside, Nintendo treats Mario, Metroid, and Zelda as their front-runners.

When the DS first came out, it came with a demo for Metroid Prime Hunters.
When they revealed the Wii, the first thing they showed was Metroid.
When they revealed the Wii U, the first thing they showed was Zelda.
Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Skyward Sword, and Other M all had a significant stage presence at E3 press conferences, whereas I doubt you'd ever see them play Pokemon on stage or have Kirby as the "And one last thing!" reveal.

That's all I'm saying.

None of that excuses the fact that Pokémon is the second best-selling video game franchise of all time. Metroid getting a pack-in demo or being among the first games shown off for the Wii behind closed doors has nothing to do with anything. Sure, it's a major franchise for Nintendo, but it isn't bigger than Pokémon, it isn't bigger than Donkey Kong, and it isn't bigger than Kirby. There's no tangible, sensible way to qualify Metroid as a top three Nintendo property. It's madness to say that Metroid is a Nintendo "frontrunner" and Pokémon isn't.
 
Metroid is paddling around the 8-10 ranks in terms of sales. However, its graphic style is entirely different than those of Mario or Zelda, and I'm pretty sure that's the only reason Nintendo likes showing it along those other two, simply to deliver more than cartoon and fantasy environments.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Behind-doors tech demo at E3 2005.

MP2 with Wii controls, not MP3.

No. On stage, at the E3 '05 press conference, they said, "Hey, we're working on a new console. We're not gonna really tell you anything about it right now, but here's a 5 second clip of a new Metroid game running on it."

Here's the clip. Samus on Phaaze with the Metroid Prime 3 ship behind her.

Also included: "Revolution will more than hold its own in graphical performance."
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
wow, just wow. E3 is coming so soon. I wouldn't expect any pictures or trailer for SSB4, but I'm preparing just in case if there will be one.

Here is my rough draft rules.

1. Roster of 50-55 characters.
People can decide how many characters they will see in the SSB4, between 50 and 55.

2. You have to list up to 10 stages.
Please be very specific when you are going to list the stages. I meant You have to mention specific game and specific stage area. For example, Venus Lighthouse from Golden Sun; or Bowser's Airship from Super Mario 3.

Reason for Stage list is that they will serve as tie breaker; just in case if we got ties.

3. You may edit your list, but you must not edit your roster during or after the SSB4 announcement. IF you do, consider yourself DQ'd.

I am trying to think more rules, because I knew I had some idea but I forget at the moment. Also I am considering prediction list for NEW assist trophies and pokemon predictionl just in case if we didn't break the ties with stages.
 

Thores

Member
1. Roster of 50-55 characters.
People can decide how many characters they will see in the SSB4, between 50 and 55.

I think you should allow people to lowball their roster size prediction, if they want. A few people in this very thread think that Sakurai's not adding many new characters at all, and they could be right. 44-55 seems more fair, or possibly not even have a minimum but still set the max at 55.

3. You may edit your list, but you must not edit your roster during or after the SSB4 announcement. IF you do, consider yourself DQ'd.

Like I've said before, requiring people to finalize their list before E3 if we get a trailer is going to lead to even more inaccurate lists than usual. I still think that there should be a week or so after E3 where their list can still be edited, but they cannot make any edits concerning already revealed characters without getting disqualified. Like if Little Mac gets revealed in the E3 trailer, whoever didn't put that character on their initial list is not allowed to add him, etc.

Also I am considering prediction list for NEW assist trophies and pokemon predictionl just in case if we didn't break the ties with stages.

Maybe make them optional but encouraged? Then whoever includes them has an edge on people that don't, but someone with a really accurate list doesn't need to worry about all this extra stuff.
 
No. On stage, at the E3 '05 press conference, they said, "Hey, we're working on a new console. We're not gonna really tell you anything about it right now, but here's a 5 second clip of a new Metroid game running on it."

Here's the clip. Samus on Phaaze with the Metroid Prime 3 ship behind her.

Also included: "Revolution will more than hold its own in graphical performance."

Man, watching that I couldn't feel how crappy E3 looked back then, how the show has expanded so quickly. (The production values for last year's was kinda crazy.)

Then I realised that that was seven years ago.

:/
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
I think you should allow people to lowball their roster size prediction, if they want. A few people in this very thread think that Sakurai's not adding many new characters at all, and they could be right. 44-55 seems more fair, or possibly not even have a minimum but still set the max at 55.

Good point, and I think I will agreed with you there. It'll be big gamble if people decided to do otherwise. Missing/Wrong character would be one point deduction.



Like I've said before, requiring people to finalize their list before E3 if we get a trailer is going to lead to even more inaccurate lists than usual. I still think that there should be a week or so after E3 where their list can still be edited, but they cannot make any edits concerning already revealed characters without getting disqualified. Like if Little Mac gets revealed in the E3 trailer, whoever didn't put that character on their initial list is not allowed to add him, etc.

Once again, good point but problem is if that I allowed them to edit the list then how can I kept track of people's list when they were editing. What if people decided to edit their list and add the revealed character to the list without me being aware of it. That's why I'm concerned about editing list after the "deadline."

Plus there are many chance that we could see new characters in future before SSB4 release. Sticky situation. I need better and stable rule for editing before I considered it. However,I would encourage people to try to finish the list before e3 but if they didn't reveal at e3 then the deadline would postpone and people are allowed to edit.



Maybe make them optional but encouraged? Then whoever includes them has an edge on people that don't, but someone with a really accurate list doesn't need to worry about all this extra stuff.

Yeah, it's optional. If people want to have high chance to win the prize then they better use every possible chance to make the prediction.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
What exactly is what you're going for, Heath? Some sort of "who guesses the most things right gets the most points" thing?

I guess. Whoever had most accurate roster list would win the prize of 20 dollars Wii U Point Card more likely.


Problem if it's hugely possible that few people would got their roster tied due to few missing characters then I would like to depend on stages to break the ties, if none of them predicted stage right then we will go with AT/PB.
 
Even though I would love participating in that, I'm fairly certain Wii U cards, like all other point cards, will be locked to region, so... :p

Edit:
Also, to get back to names, the ones I am hoping for:
Super Smash Bros. Fisticuffs
Super Smash Bros. Pugilism

And I want a Gentlemen Mode, where if you activate it, there's only 1v1, and all stage hazards and items are deactivated automatically.
 

Thores

Member
Even though I would love participating in that, I'm fairly certain Wii U cards, like all other point cards, will be locked to region, so... :p

So he finds out the winner's region and buys that region's card? Not really seeing the issue. Well besides possible card amount discrepancies, I guess.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
So he finds out the winner's region and buys that region's card? Not really seeing the issue. Well besides possible card amount discrepancies, I guess.

Oh Crickeys. I forget all about region cards being locked. *smh* I'm not sure about that because I know nothing about other region markets. I am only aware of that japanese online store.
 

Jezan

Member
Also, if Samus and Adam are in play at the same time, all of Samus's special abilities are disabled untill the person playing as Adam says otherwise.
In SSE that would help a lot, you start as Samus and Adam says : "Samus I'm not authorizing back up, all trophies will be unavailable" and then as you advance he will unlock each character for multiplayer :p
 

Tyeforce

Member
I think the best way to handle a contest like this would be to make everyone choose a set number of characters, no more, no less. That would make choosing the winner a much easier task. Also, I think we should only be guessing newcomers, not dealing with the entire roster and who may possibly be cut. It just makes things simpler. I think either 10 or 15 is a good number of newcomers to guess. Then just add 10 stages to that. I dunno, it's just a suggestion. Opinions?
 

GamerSoul

Member
I think the limit is fine, but you shouldnt get penalized if the game has less than the set amount.

Even though I would love participating in that, I'm fairly certain Wii U cards, like all other point cards, will be locked to region, so... :p

Edit:
Also, to get back to names, the ones I am hoping for:
Super Smash Bros. Fisticuffs
Super Smash Bros. Pugilism

And I want a Gentlemen Mode, where if you activate it, there's only 1v1, and all stage hazards and items are deactivated automatically.

Super Smash Bros. WiiU or Universe
 
I'm throwing a potential Zelda character into the ring- Ganon (Classic Pig form)

Ganon_(Oracle_of_Ages_%26_Oracle_of_Seasons).png


Ganon is a slow, heavy staff (trident) fighter.

Specials:

(All Attacks based on LTTP Moves)

B : Flame Keese - Chargeable attack. Ganon summons forth Flame Keese, who fly forward from his hands. The longer he charges, the more fly out in an arc (Up to five)

Side B : Trident Throw - Ganon throws his trident like a javelin. At the end of it's flight, it starts spinning and returns to him.

Up B: Teleport

Down B: Trident Slam - Ganon leaps into the air, then slams to the ground, releasing a shockwave.

Final Smash: Dark World - The lights dim, and the stage takes on an olive colored tint. All other players turn into rabbit versions of themselves, only capable of moving and jumping.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
It seems like cross play between 3DS and Wii U will be the new thing about Smash this time around.

do you guys think the graphics will be held back to ensure compatibility?
 

Anth0ny

Member
It seems like cross play between 3DS and Wii U will be the new thing about Smash this time around.

do you guys think the graphics will be held back to ensure compatibility?

Hell no. There isn't going to be cross play, there's just going to be compatibility in some form.
 

GamerSoul

Member
Thats a pretty good Ganon moveset but I don't think the teleport UpB would be fair because of his size and potential strength. There would have to be another way like having his Trident extend or something.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
We know the WiiU has a tablet controller, they are still going to mention it at E3. I seriously wouldn't get your hopes up. You might be lucky and they'll do a Brawl and show a video after the conference, but I expect that when Iwata is up on that stage he will simply mention its coming and that his buddy Sakurai is once again in charge (and this time it won't be a surprise to Sakurai).
 

Riposte

Member
I would totally be okay with a SSB that only had 15-25 characters, as long as the mechanics were better than Brawl and balancing was at least at the level of Melee (not including crap characters like Pichu). Good game first, crossover fapping second.

I would also place stuff like Events, Break the Targets, etc over a more hefty Adventure mode.
 
I would totally be okay with a SSB that only had 15-25 characters, as long as the mechanics were better than Brawl and balancing was at least at the level of Melee (not including crap characters like Pichu).

Actually, the balancing in Brawl is significantly better than in Melee, whether it was intentional or not.

In Melee, there's about 5 viable characters, everything else is mid or low tier and can't really compete (of course there's the occasional outraging victory of a mid or low tier, but Brawl has those too).

In Brawl, there's 1 OP character (who was banned), then there's a fucking HUGE high tier, a fucking HUGE mid tier, and a few more low tier characters. All the characters save for the low tiers are pretty viable and Brawl has a big amount of variety, thusly being better balanced.

The best balancing in the series was in 64, where every character was completely viable, including the low tiers.
 

qq more

Member
Actually, the balancing in Brawl is significantly better than in Melee, whether it was intentional or not.

In Melee, there's about 5 viable characters, everything else is mid or low tier and can't really compete (of course there's the occasional outraging victory of a mid or low tier, but Brawl has those too).

In Brawl, there's 1 OP character (who was banned), then there's a fucking HUGE high tier, a fucking HUGE mid tier, and a few more low tier characters. All the characters save for the low tiers are pretty viable and Brawl has a big amount of variety, thusly being better balanced.

The best balancing in the series was in 64, where every character was completely viable, including the low tiers.
Holy shit. I seriously thought I was alone with this. I was so disappointed with half of the characters in Melee because of how god damn weak they were. I was not happy when they nerfed Ness to a total joke.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Because we're sharing ideas that would probably never happen anyway, and people have been sharing obscure Nintendo characters, I give you Brian and Ain of FEDA. Brian is the human dude and Ain is the wolf dude. I'm not sure who actually owns the game now - whether it's Sega or Nintendo.

The game essentially is Fire Emblem but with swearing, manly furries, hot elves, testosterone, and penis jokes. Oh, and an emblem system where you either do your mission as stated or kill everyone. If you do your mission as ordered, you sway towards the lawful emblems and characters while kill everyone sways towards the chaotic emblems and characters.

Since the two are major characters (albeit Brian gets some more importance over Ain), it's fitting they should play like Ice Climbers! You normally control Brian while Ain follows you, but certain colors lets you control Ain while Brian follows. Much like Ice Climbers, they are gimped in mobility and recovery when one of them gets KO'd. However, unlike Ice Climbers, if the lead player remains, he gains a powered up attack rage.

B - Moon Cut. A projectile slice attack. When both are in game, their Moon Cut passes through enemies. When partner is KO'd, Moon Cut projectile becomes larger and deals more damage but loses the passing through effect.

Side B - Tactical Dash. Sorta like Star Fox except the lead dashes first to stun, the partner then follows for a stronger blow. When partner is KO'd, it halves its range but the knocking power increases.

Up B -Dragon Slice. Like Marth's Up B except not lame. They perform two upward slashes in a row. When partner is KO'd, only a single slash is done, but the sword gains a large aura that eats projectiles and knock enemies more.

Down B - Meteor Slash. Brian and Ain let a flurry of slashes without moving forward. Mashing B during the attack will let them extend the slashes to its full animation. Stops them from falling while in mid-air. When partner is KO'd, it becomes a counter move (hurr).

Final Smash - Dipper Slash + Crescent Slice. Brian and Ain bro-fists then they perform their signature slash attack, with Brian facing forward and Ain facing back. Anyone who is hit are sent to a powerful knockback that they are mostly assured to be KO'd. Brian has a wider range while Ain has more damage. Note that when you select the colors with Ain as the playable one, their slashes will not switch (meaning that the slash facing forward is Ain's while the one facing on the back is Brian's). Nothing changes when the partner is KO'd.
 

KevinCow

Banned
Smash 64 was great because everyone was stupidly overpowered in some way or another.

Also gotta agree that Brawl's balance is way better than Melee's. Competitive Melee was mainly Fox, Falco, Marth, and Sheik, with the occasional Peach and Captain Falcon. The Brawl tournaments I've been to have had a surprising variety in the characters. There were really only a handful of characters I didn't see at this last one I went to a couple weeks ago.
 
Alright, I'll jump on the hopeful character bandwagon.

Hades


Heavy, but relatively quick character.

Specials:

B: Hades Drill (Produces a drill from his chest that strikes multiple times.)

Side B: Hades Shot (Shoots either fast-moving blue projectiles that can be destroyed or slower-moving pink projectiles that must be dodged. Type fired depends on whether forward or B was pressed first.)

Up B: Warp Tunnel (Quickly travels through a vertical warp tunnel, barreling through enemies in his way.)

Down B: Hades Kick (More powerful and faster than Falcon Kick, but with more recovery.)

Final Smash: Devestation Ensemble (Fires a continous stream of projectiles out of guns on his body in the direction being faced.)

Scrafty

1890802-560scrafty_large.png


Decent speed, high attack.

B: Crunch (Works like Wario's B attack, but without the trapping and with more knockback and damage)

Side B: Head Smash (Identical to Luigi's Side B)

Up B: Hi-Jump Kick (Leaps upwards with a knee strike and then dives diagonally downwards with a kick. Inflicts high damage, but hurts with recoil on a miss)

Down B: Focus Punch (A horizontal strike that can be charged)

Final Smash: Scrafty Tactics (A brutal combo akin to Triforce Slash)
 

Neiteio

Member
How popular is Scrafty in Japan? I know he's been a huge hit with Western gamers, but how have the Japanese taken to him? It certainly would be cool if he could be a character; just seeing an idle animation of him pulling up his "pants" (in actuality shed skin) and looking all "gangsa" would be well worth it. :) Not to mention, his Head Smash move could have a satisfying THWOK sound to it, like when you smash attack with the baseball bat. That, and it's funny how when doing his standard attacks, he would be constantly trying to keep his pants up, lol.
 
How popular is Scrafty in Japan? I know he's been a huge hit with Western gamers, but how have the Japanese taken to him? It certainly would be cool if he could be a character; just seeing an idle animation of him pulling up his "pants" (in actuality shed skin) and looking all "gangsa" would be well worth it. :) Not to mention, his Head Smash move could have a satisfying THWOK sound to it, like when you smash attack with the baseball bat. That, and it's funny how when doing his standard attacks, he would be constantly trying to keep his pants up, lol.

There is TONS of Japanese fanwork involving the Scrafty family plus there was a huge marketing blitz when Scraggy was first revealed in the anime, so I think it's safe to say that they're pretty popular in Japan.

Even though it's a long shot, I really hope he makes it into the game in some form, even if just as a Pokéball.
 
There is TONS of Japanese fanwork involving the Scrafty family plus there was a huge marketing blitz when Scraggy was first revealed in the anime, so I think it's safe to say that they're pretty popular in Japan.

Even though it's a long shot, I really hope he makes it into the game in some form, even if just as a Pokéball.

I'd actually rather he be playable rather than Zoroark. Makes much more sense, him being a fighting type.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Sega made the remake for it 2 years after the original release, for what it's worth.
Also, it's actually pretty much Shining Force, just un-segafied.

So Yannoman is essentially Sega then.

I kinda wish they remake it. It's the only SRPG I know with actual soldiers rather than teenagers.

And furries.

I'd actually rather he be playable rather than Zoroark. Makes much more sense, him being a fighting type.

Also who wouldn't want a character who is conscious about his pants
 
So Yannoman is essentially Sega then.

I kinda wish they remake it. It's the only SRPG I know with actual soldiers rather than teenagers.

Although the Shining Force series does have teenagers, most of the characters you pick up are soldiers, and as a matter of fact, promoting the teenie units actually makes them also look more mature in their mugshots. So basically you're joining those teenagers as they grow up into real soldiers. :3
 

Neiteio

Member
Why not both Scrafty and Zoroark? I don't care about the Dark-type redundancy; design-wise and in terms of personality, they're completely different, and both worthwhile. Zoroark would be cool for the illusionary mix-ups, and his fighting style has him on two legs sometimes, on all four legs at others -- feral one moment, a fighter the next. Scrafty, of course, is cool for reasons already mentioned. I'd like both of them.

About that great Ganon moveset posted earlier: My only concern with it is the Dark World Final Smash. It sounds cool until you consider that the basic idea behind the Dark World transforming people is that it transforms them into what's in their heart. Do you really think Hades would turn into a cute pink bunny? He'd turn into another Ganon! :p
 

Poyunch

Member
About that great Ganon moveset posted earlier: My only concern with it is the Dark World Final Smash. It sounds cool until you consider that the basic idea behind the Dark World transforming people is that it transforms them into what's in their heart. Do you really think Hades would turn into a cute pink bunny? He'd turn into another Ganon! :p

How about instead of a cute pink bunny... an evil, cute pink bunny?
 

Hero

Member
So am I the only one who wants to see Little Mac as a newcomer for SSB4? I thought it was awesome that he was at least an Assist Trophy and seeing as how the majority of the popular characters are in now, Little Mac could fulfill the role that Ice Climbers / Pit served as being the retro character. The Wii Punch Out game being a pretty resurgence for interest I think helps too.
 
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