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[Black-Wind]

The point is is that he has not changed his mind, what he has said is consistent with what he has always said from the time Brawl was completed. If you want relevant info than he also stated this recently:



There is nothing stopping him from doing that, but he has expressed since 2008 that he does not simply want to increase the roster without bringing something different to separate the new game from its predecessors.



It does not have to be either/or, but simply a matter of perspective.

In none of that does he imply that he's limited the number of characters down to brawl's level.

What he seems to be saying in your quotes is "Hey, I COULD just make 50 characters and a fuck ton of stages (like everyone wants) but I want to do MORE than that". This new quote? It seems to be saying that he feels that current number is the cut-off point because of the "In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible" line coming after the "it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and make them feel distinctive" bit in terms of have a large roster.

And nowhere does it come across that he feels that there's just no more characters that will get people "excited".

 

[Boss Doggie]

?

Wrong dinosaur brah

T-REX PAUNCH

 

[Freezie KO]

This game needs more playable armadillos, dinosaurs, and whatnot.

RIP

 

[Kodiak]

Dear god. I have dreamed of a Smash Bros supported by DLC and balance patches for so long. I hope they release a fully featured game and then work on DLC AFTER launch to provide solid new characters and whatnot.

New items.
New stages.
New music.
New characters.

The one and only game that I will gladly bend over for and let fuck me in the ass and deliver its hot load of DLC directly in to my body.

And for the love of christ, a decent editor this time.

The one and only game I still truly geek out about, I don't know why. I just love this series so much. *Single tear.*

 

[Freezie KO]

I have dreamed of a Smash Bros supported by DLC

I call those nightmares.

 

[Anth0ny]

IDK where you're getting that from.

Going by that quote, and assuming it's not only legit but properly quoted, it simply appears that he thinks the number of characters that he can handle while making it balanced has reached it's max and that it's just not "feasible" to keep adding more.

And he is right ... at some point the amount of character would just be too much. But I'm greatly disappointed that he feels that this number is the cutoff point.

Yeah there is definitely space for more characters at this point, not sure what Sakurai is talking about.

Brawl- 39
SFIV- 39
UMVC3- 48
SFxT- 55
MVC2- 56

I think 45 would be a solid number at this point. It's not that difficult to balance a fighting game, even with that many characters, in this age of downloadable patches.

Knowing Sakurai, he won't add any characters at all and spend all his resources on a shitty single player that no one will play after the first week.

 

[GamerSoul]

If there's a similar reveal trailer (there won't be), it'd be interesting if the new characters have similar tropes.

Long requested nemesis/rival to a series with one rep perviously: Metaknight/Ridley
Classic character who's been long requested: Pit/Little Mac
Unexpected sexual appeal character: Zero Suit Samus/K. Rool
Long requested wacky spin-off character to a major series to seemingly cap things off: Wario/Tingle
Unexpected 3rd party character: Snake/Master Chief Mega Man

LMAO. Nah i know ur joking but I think Syrup could fit that role although she would fill multiple categories needed. Villain, female, etc.

Bad news, guys.

In the newest issue of Nintendo Power, Masahiro Sakurai gave an interview on the topic of Kid Icarus: Uprising and the Super Smash Bros. series. The final question of the interview was as follows:

Nintendo Power: With so much content packed into the previous Smash Bros. games, what difficulties do you encounter when creating a new one?

Sakurai: It isn't a matter of "if the next game has 50 characters, that'll be enough." There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance, and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and make them feel distinctive... In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction might be what's needed.

So, is it cuttin' time?

Hopefully not. I think he should focus less on balancing this game if his true goal is just to make a fun game full of content. He's not even doing the balancing himself this time around and he's definitely going to have everything he needs at his disposal so time isn't an issue. Seriously, he has said himself that Melee was too hard so why would he care so much about balancing a game that has broken items and what-not? As long as there's not 6 MetaKnight-like characters he should be good.

eh, whatev. Sakurai. lol

Yeah there is definitely space for more characters at this point, not sure what Sakurai is talking about.

Brawl- 39
SFIV- 39
UMVC3- 48
SFxT- 55
MVC2- 56

I think 45 would be a solid number at this point. It's not that difficult to balance a fighting game, even with that many characters, in this age of downloadable patches.

Knowing Sakurai, he won't add any characters at all and spend all his resources on a shitty single player that no one will play after the first week.

lol it's so true. Unless he pulls his inspiration from actual nintendo worlds.

Yea he's acting like he won't have Nintendo's money at his disposal or something to help. Iwata should be like "You need more staff? no prob just take my moneys bro. I know you got this, playa." just like that all boss like.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Yeah there is definitely space for more characters at this point, not sure what Sakurai is talking about.

Brawl- 39
SFIV- 39
UMVC3- 48
SFxT- 55
MVC2- 56

I think 45 would be a solid number at this point. It's not that difficult to balance a fighting game, even with that many characters, in this age of downloadable patches.

Knowing Sakurai, he won't add any characters at all and spend all his resources on a shitty single player that no one will play after the first week.

UMvC3 actually has 50 characters if you count Jill and Shuma, which just serves to make Brawl's meagre list of 39 characters even smaller. If Niitsuma can create a pretty balanced game with a cast of 50 characters (all of which have more moves and abilities that need to be taken into account than any Smash game), then why does Sakurai see 40 or more "unfeasible?" I think that they should delegate balance to a specific group or individual (heck, they could probably get someone to do it for free if they were a big enough fan) so that the rest of the team has more time and resources for other endeavours.

 

[Starphoenix]

In none of that does he imply that he's limited the number of characters down to brawl's level.

What he seems to be saying in your quotes is "Hey, I COULD just make 50 characters and a fuck ton of stages (like everyone wants) but I want to do MORE than that". This new quote? It seems to be saying that he feels that current number is the cut-off point because of the "In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible" line coming after the "it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and make them feel distinctive" bit in terms of have a large roster.

And nowhere does it come across that he feels that there's just no more characters that will get people "excited".

If he has, literally, reached the limit of what is feasible then why even bother making a sequel to begin with? Yes having a large roster is hard to fine tune, and it is understandable why he would be nervous considering his lack of delegating balancing duties to anyone other than himself, but there is no way to get inside his head and assume what he feels the is farthest he can go. Obviously it is 50 since that is the number he keeps bringing up.

The last part, about there nor being enough "exciting" characters was simply to point out that Sakurai does not feel that there are many character driven series left worthy of representation. Since that time the only new 1st party series we have seen has been Xenoblade. Punch Out!! came back, and Sin and Punishment to a degree, but overall most of the main series already represented with characters have been Nintendo's primary focus (obviously). Outside of Mewtwo, King K. Rool and Ridley there just are not many Nintendo characters that garner the same type of support that they or other Nintendo characters once had before them. This shouldn't be something completely revolutionary.

 

[Anth0ny]

If he has, literally, reached the limit of what is feasible then why even bother making a sequel to begin with? Yes having a large roster is hard to fine tune, and it is understandable why he would be nervous considering his lack of delegating balancing duties to anyone other than himself, but there is no way to get inside his head and assume what he feels the is farthest he can go. Obviously it is 50 since that is the number he keeps bringing up.

Well, MVC3 has far less characters than MVC2. Of course it's still possible to release a sequel with just as many (or less) characters as the prior game in the series.

It just strikes me as odd that Mr. "Melee is the sharpest game in the series but there will never be another Smash game as tight as Melee" is so suddenly worried about balancing.

I would have imagined the interview have went something like this:

"Well, I'm not so concerned about balancing and all the technical aspects of Smash Bros, as the game is meant to be played for fun with friends and with items on. So I'm gonna throw 60 characters into the new game, 30 new stages and it's gonna be fucking crazy."

Instead... balance?


Not that I'm complaining ^_^

 

[Starphoenix]

Well, MVC3 has far less characters than MVC2. Of course it's still possible to release a sequel with just as many (or less) characters as the prior game in the series.

It just strikes me as odd that Mr. "Melee is the sharpest game in the series but there will never be another Smash game as tight as Melee" is so suddenly worried about balancing.

I would have imagined the interview have went something like this:

"Well, I'm not so concerned about balancing and all the technical aspects of Smash Bros, as the game is meant to be played for fun with friends and with items on. So I'm gonna throw 60 characters into the new game, 30 new stages and it's gonna be fucking crazy."

Instead... balance?


Not that I'm complaining ^_^

Well, MvC2 was a conglomeration of many different fighting games into one, to the point that not even all of the sprites matched. MvC3 was from the ground up in 3D, so there was a bit more legwork involved. Still, it sits at fifty even right now.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

If there's a similar reveal trailer (there won't be), it'd be interesting if the new characters have similar tropes.

Long requested nemesis/rival to a series with one rep perviously: Metaknight/Ridley
Classic character who's been long requested: Pit/Little Mac
Unexpected sexual appeal character: Zero Suit Samus/K. Rool
Long requested wacky spin-off character to a major series to seemingly cap things off: Wario/Tingle
Unexpected 3rd party character: Snake/Master Chief Mega Man

That's the problem- Mega Man isn't unexpected- he's very expected. Snake was a surprise because the concept of third party characters hadn't really entered into serious discussion.

For that type of shock and impact, they would need either a character who is well loved but niche and/or not as family friendly- like Travis Touchdown - or dive into wells that most people wouldn't expect them to dive into- like Captain N.

 

[Black-Wind]

If he has, literally, reached the limit of what is feasible then why even bother making a sequel to begin with?

You don't have to make the number HIGHER to make a game worth being called a sequel.

He could cut 40-50% of brawls roster, replace them with new characters and rework all returning characters, effectively clearing the table to do something completely different with the characters/ gameplay. He could go this customization route he said would be in this game. I think he could make selectable move-sets and alts. Saaay there's only 40 characters BUT each has 3 sets of B moves you can pick from and different alts or stat sets. He could make something completely different from normal smash like ...Smash Power Stone where the gameplay is in a 3D area.

There's NOTHING saying he has to ADD more to the number of characters on the roster. I would love LOVE LOVE to have 50-55 character and I don't see why he couldn't pull it off but from that quote it seems like he doesn't agree.

Yes having a large roster is hard to fine tune, and it is understandable why he would be nervous considering his lack of delegating balancing duties to anyone other than himself, but there is no way to get inside his head and assume what he feels the is farthest he can go. Obviously it is 50 since that is the number he keeps bringing up.

I'm not trying to get inside this man's head, I know that aint gonna happen. I'm just going by what he said in this quote.

And he could very well be saying 50 because that's the logical progression in most people's eye's. 64->12/ Melee->24/ Brawl->39 ... each game has had atleast 12 new character slots added to the roster.

The last part, about there nor being enough "exciting" characters was simply to point out that Sakurai does not feel that there are many character driven series left worthy of representation.

You seem to be the one trying to get inside this man's head.
If that's what he feels as of 2012 then IDK why he wouldn't say that instead of "the current amount is the limit ... large rosters are hard to balance and fine tune".

 

[GamerSoul]

The thing I don't quite get about the cap on characters that deserve a spot in Smash is that smash is literaly able to give characters new life and make them relevant again, (See Pit and Sheik to a lesser extent who has stayed relevant through Smash), even if before they were not until they became playable. For example, look at MvC3, not everyone will know every single character on that roster but they still were able to make some great interesting characters that probably wouldn't have made the roster if they were only looking for the big names, there's a good balance. Nintendo has that whole spectrum of characters that Marvel and Capcom have all by itself and Sakurai should take advantage of it for Smash 4.

Honestly, I wouldnt mind a few cuts, but it seems it would be easier to just add them instead to keep the fanbase happy. It makes no sense to shrink the roster for balancing for this type of game lol.

 

[Boss Doggie]

FYI MvC2 got so many characters... because lolspritecopypasta

 

[Snakey]

At this point the only "new" characters I want for Smash 4 are Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy; and half of those were characters already playable in Smash Bros. and planned for Brawl.

Other than this, I am content with the roster that already exists for Smash Bros.

 

[Red Arremer]

I am fine with just 2 new characters if one of them is Ridley. Hell I'm fine with ONLY Ridley as new character. Else I'm gonna rage because he got the shaft again. He should've been in since fucking Melee.

Well, MVC3 has far less characters than MVC2. Of course it's still possible to release a sequel with just as many (or less) characters as the prior game in the series.

I wouldn't call 6 much less, to be honest, especially considering how many MvC2 characters are direct clones (ohai Boneclaw Wolvie, among others), while MvC3's entire cast is really unique. And much better balanced (cuz MvC2 is anything but balanced lol).

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Ridley, Little Mac, Mega Man and a F-Zero rep is what would keep me perfectly satisfied if Smash 4 had very limited newcomers.

It won't though; it'd be marketing suicide to have only a small handful of new characters in the game.

 

[Snakey]

I am fine with just 2 new characters if one of them is Ridley. Hell I'm fine with ONLY Ridley as new character. Else I'm gonna rage because he got the shaft again. He should've been in since fucking Melee.

I have wanted Ridley in as a playable character for Smash Bros. for over 11 years. There is no character that comes close in terms of anticipation as Ridley does.

 

[GamerSoul]

.
.
.
.
<---I'll be happy with her and maybe Isaac or Lil Mac because they have a good chance to have a unique moveset. But characters like Ridley have to be at this point. It's near crazy if he's not on the roster at this point.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

If Wario gets a 2nd rep Syrup would be a nice way of Sakurai making up for pretending Land didn't exist in Brawl.

 

[Triton55]

Knowing Sakurai, he won't add any characters at all and spend all his resources on a shitty single player that no one will play after the first week.

"Knowing Sakurai"? Since when has any Sakurai game been low on content?

 

[Red Arremer]

I have wanted Ridley in as a playable character for Smash Bros. for over 11 years. There is no character that comes close in terms of anticipation as Ridley does.

Same. Hell, I remember with Brawl's Dojo updates, that until the game was released (even after the roster leaked), I kept being delusional and hoped that Ridley would not be only a boss, that it didn't mean the character wouldn't be playable. I was clinging to that little straw of desperation and thought I would be proven right cause Sakurai couldn't be so silly to not have Ridley come in, right?

...Well...

I just wish I could've seen this in the actual game. :<

Wrong dinosaur brah

T-REX PAUNCH

Bio-Rex is one of my favorite F-Zero characters, but I really doubt he'd be the choice for Smash. Sadly, cause he's lurvable.

 

[Snakey]

At this point, the only characters I can see Sakurai definitely adding are Ridley, Mega Man, and Palutena. I think Mewtwo and Roy also have an advantage due to already being in Smash Bros. and planned for Brawl.

I think Little Mac is deserving (certainly the most deserving Nintendo character from a series not already represented with a playable character outside of the Miis), however, I am thinking that "blandness" may be what keeps him out. If K. Rool and Dixie Kong both don't get in, it will show how high the bar to entry for Smash Bros. has now become.

It terms of getting the axe from Brawl, I see it as being:

Snake > Sonic > Ike > Lucario > Toon Link

Toon Link's placement though depends on what design they decide to use for Link in Zelda 3DS. If its Toon Link (or a variation of it), then Toon Link is safe and will likely return in Smash 4. Even if Toon Link is cut, I expect a younger quicker variation of Link to be playable in Smash 4. Snake and Sonic are obviously the most in danger of being cut (Snake especially) due to their position in Smash Bros. as being "guests". Ike and Lucario risk being cut over the next flavor-of-the-months of their respective series (both of whom have aesthetic similarities to their Brawl counterparts).

 

[Red Arremer]

What about Lucas? I mean, Ness is here to stay, he's one of the original 12, but if Roy and Pichu are any indication, Lucas definitely is one of those characters who might get axed as well (since MOTHER 3 is done and over with). I think Toon/Young Link is pretty safe, though, since Sakurai said that he felt it was important to represent both versions and styles the Zelda games have taken.

I wouldn't doubt that there'll be at least another "promotional" character in SSB4, maybe for Miyamoto's new series he's been talking about, or an upcoming bigger release (if that's a new Metroid, Ridley seems like the absolute shoe-in, honestly).

 

[Snakey]

What about Lucas? I mean, Ness is here to stay, he's one of the original 12, but if Roy and Pichu are any indication, Lucas definitely is one of those characters who might get axed as well (since MOTHER 3 is done and over with). I think Toon/Young Link is pretty safe, though, since Sakurai said that he felt it was important to represent both versions and styles the Zelda games have taken.

I wouldn't doubt that there'll be at least another "promotional" character in SSB4, maybe for Miyamoto's new series he's been talking about, or an upcoming bigger release (if that's a new Metroid, Ridley seems like the absolute shoe-in, honestly).

I think Lucas is a wildcard for being cut, though I see no reason not to other than Mother being a "dead" franchise. I actually think even Pichu has a better shot of returning than most characters have for getting in.

I do think Miyamoto's new IP character will be playable in Smash 4. The only other "new series" newcomer I can see in Smash 4 is whatever retro character Sakurai decides to resurrect (probably Takamaru).

Personally, I rather just have Sakurai keep everyone from Brawl, bring back Mewtwo and Roy (I would welcome back even Dr. Mario and Pichu to be honest), and bring in the handful of deserving Nintendo characters left (Ridley is the only one that comes to mind as being absolutely grievous not to include at this point).

 

[RealDeadOne]

I'm really hoping Jigglypuff finally gets cut. It's a joke character that was only kept in the games for legacy reasons and is completely irrelevant to the Pokemon franchise these days, especially since the character representation has already been leaning so heavily on the first gen Pokemon.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Like I said I expect under 10 new characters. Perhaps ridley, bowser jr, tingle, palutena, zoroark, and throw in 2 or 3 wildcards(retro, unique, etc).

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm really hoping Jigglypuff finally gets cut. It's a joke character that was only kept in the games for legacy reasons and is completely irrelevant to the Pokemon franchise these days, especially since the character representation has already been leaning so heavily on the first gen Pokemon.

Jigglypuff is everything but a joke character.
It originally was included because Sakurai wanted another flying character that isn't Kirby. It also still is HUGE in Japan, which is what matters most to Japanese gaming companies.

It also was a very good character in the games prior to Brawl.

 

[Snakey]

I'm really hoping Jigglypuff finally gets cut. It's a joke character that was only kept in the games for legacy reasons and is completely irrelevant to the Pokemon franchise these days, especially since the character representation has already been leaning so heavily on the first gen Pokemon.

I would extremely upset if Jigglypuff were ever cut. At this point, Jigglypuff is a staple to the Smash Bros. series. I really hate Smash Bros. cutting characters in general, and cutting a character who has been there since the very beginning would be absolutely awful.

 

[GamerSoul]

I do think Miyamoto's new IP character will be playable in Smash 4. The only other "new series" newcomer I can see in Smash 4 is whatever retro character Sakurai decides to resurrect (probably Takamaru).

I totally forgot about Takamaru he would definitely be a nice surprise retro character too if it were to happen.

 

[Tyeforce]

If there are any characters that get cut, I really hope that those characters are added in later as DLC.

Cut Jigglypuff, don't bring back any of the previous cut characters. Bring over all other returning characters and add more newcomers, and don't waste any resources on cut characters. Add Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Roy (and possibly Dr. Mario and maybe Pichu) as DLC later; fully functional fighters but with no role in story mode, etc. (much like Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff in Brawl). Everyone wins!

 

[Snakey]

If there are any characters that get cut, I really hope that those characters are added in later as DLC.

Cut Jigglypuff, don't bring back any of the previous cut characters. Bring over all other returning characters and add more newcomers, and don't waste any resources on cut characters. Add Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Roy (and possibly Dr. Mario and maybe Pichu) as DLC later; fully functional fighters but with no role in story mode, etc. (much like Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff in Brawl). Everyone wins!

I doubt story role in a possible adventure mode means much of anything in terms of development time. I think though if Mewtwo and Roy were in Brawl that they would have not had any role in the SSE (their listing in planned unique victory themes has them sandwiched between Jigglypuff and Toon Link, both of whom had no role in the SSE).

I am really anxious now about what Sakurai has planned for Smash 4. Like I said earlier, my wishlist for characters is just Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy.

 

[Red Arremer]

I still can't understand why so many people hate Jigglypuff and want to see her go.

 

[Kokonoe]

Not sure, but I think Jigglypuff could use an updated moveset next game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Revert her back to her powerhouse Smash 64 version, make her Pound aimable and have longer reach, and make her jumps higher

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I still can't understand why so many people hate Jigglypuff and want to see her go.

They actively hate the concept of fun.

 

[NeonZ]

Knowing Sakurai, he won't add any characters at all and spend all his resources on a shitty single player that no one will play after the first week.

Sakurai has been talking about how he couldn't add many new characters and how the game was already at its limit ever since Brawl was announced. I remember one of his interviews back then talking about how they barely reached 26 characters in Melee and it'd be hard to top that. This is nothing new. He always talks like that regarding the character line up.

It's quite interesting though how he keeps mentioning the 50 characters number this time, even if it's just as something he doesn't want to do...

What about Lucas? I mean, Ness is here to stay, he's one of the original 12, but if Roy and Pichu are any indication, Lucas definitely is one of those characters who might get axed as well (since MOTHER 3 is done and over with).

Mother 3 was "done and over" with when Sakurai made Brawl and included him though...

As far as Jigglypuff goes, she was intended to be a joke character in the original, but Sakurai failed at that. Pichu took that position in Melee, but with Brawl Jigglypuff seemingly got it again and suffered accordingly for once.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As long as there aren't any cuts, I'm happy with any number of newcomers to be honest. Give me Shulk, Dixie, K.Rool, and Palutena and I'm set.

Also, Jigglypuff forever.

 

[Red Arremer]

They actively hate the concept of fun.

I love you.

 

[cednym]

Mother 3 was "done and over" with when Sakurai made Brawl and included him though...

When Sakurai decided the roster in July 2005, Mother 3 wasn't released for almost a year.

 

[BGBW]

I wonder if they'll actually implement unique victory themes this time round.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Hahahaha I just reminded myself - Krystal will still end up as a clone even when they change the visuals of her attacks aesthetically (Smash fans are shallow like that). Her answer for Landmaster? Riding Tricky of course! Essentially the same functions and attacks of a Landmaster, but Smash fans will think it's unique because she's riding a dinosaur instead of a Landmaster!

 

[KevinCow]

I wonder if they'll actually implement unique victory themes this time round.

Only for Sakurai's favorite characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hahahaha I just reminded myself - Krystal will still end up as a clone even when they change the visuals of her attacks aesthetically (Smash fans are shallow like that). Her answer for Landmaster? Riding Tricky of course! Essentially the same functions and attacks of a Landmaster, but Smash fans will think it's unique because she's riding a dinosaur instead of a Landmaster!

She would say "Personally, I prefer the Landmaster"

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh dear God, please don't let them add Krystal.

Edit: But if they do add her, I am so hoping that she'll get the same B moves and final smash as Fox (just slightly different), but a completely unique moveset otherwise (perhaps utilizing her staff), and laugh at people raging at her being a "clone".

I wonder if they'll actually implement unique victory themes this time round.

I've been asking the same question earlier... I really would like to know what they had in mind for certain characters (a lot are obvious). For instance, maybe Peach would've gotten a reference to her DS game? Or the Castle theme from Mario 64? Who knows! :O

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh don't worry I don't want her. She can die in a fire for all I care.

People say about her staff... yet she only used that, for like, a few mins.

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh don't worry I don't want her. She can die in a fire for all I care.

People say about her staff... yet she only used that, for like, a few mins.

Yes, but even if she does use her staff in her normal moves, if she gets the same B moves and Final Smash, she's obviously a clone!

 

[nephilimdj]

Would just ditch Pokemon trainer system for a ditto

Make it turn into jiggy/lucario/mewtwo like trainer system worked

All 3 are nolonger main mascots, Atleast would allow them to live on

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Would just ditch Pokemon trainer system for a ditto

Make it turn into jiggy/lucario/mewtwo like trainer system worked

All 3 are nolonger main mascots, Atleast would allow them to live on

This is a terrabad idea.