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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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R

Red Arremer

Member
Green Mamba said:
Don't forget, Red Arremer, that Sonic was added late in the game and likely had some sort of effect on who eventually got in and who didn't. I'd imagine Sonic's inclusion was more of a factor as to why Mewtwo was dropped than anything particular about Mewtwo.
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You're right, I totally forgot about Sonic's inclusion that might've affected Mewtwo's position. That might be the reason, but... then why have another character added? It just doesn't make sense to me from a logistical standpoint - it's very clear that Wolf was added after Mewtwo was scrapped, and it seems likely that this also could've included Dixie and Toon Zelda/Sheik as possible stand-ins. That's why I don't think that Sonic actually was the reason, something not related to the roster itself at all, and rather to the character of Mewtwo.

I think that Sonic's spot was basically like "Yeah, let's keep up one character slot for a fan choice based on polls, because we have the time to develop a moveset", but then Mewtwo had to be scrapped for whatever reason, and they were like "Oh fuck, what do we do now. We'll have to whip up some new character to fill in the slot. Quick, let's make a character that is similar to an existing one.", so they whipped up early concepts of Wolf, Dixie and Toon Zelda (unless she was in the second character draft and was dropped with Doc and Pramai), and decided to go with Wolf.
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
I didn't put as much thought into this as you have in this last page, but I always thought that Wolf was originally scrapped together with most of the other cut characters and brought back near the end of development.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
I didn't put as much thought into this as you have in this last page, but I always thought that Wolf was originally scrapped together with most of the other cut characters and brought back near the end of development.
Click to expand...

Good point. That might also be a possibility, and sounds just as reasonable as my theory on the last page.

This would mean that Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Wolf and Dixie had been dropped together with Pramai and Dr. Mario, but Roy and Mewtwo had been kept.
It would also give us a good explanation for the discrepancy with Sonic's inclusion. It is very much possible that Sonic actually replaced Roy or Mewtwo, while Wolf replaced the other one.

It actually would make sense if Wolf was chosen to take Roy's place instead since Wolf obviously is more unique compared to Melee Roy (who obviously would've gotten more to differentiate himself from Marth, but eh). Or someone came up with a much more unique moveset for Wolf than they had for Roy sometime during the development, so they swapped. Maybe they also just didn't want to have 3 Fire Emblem characters while other, bigger series had less characters. Or they just really liked Wolf over Roy.

But thinking about it, the thing that Sakurai explicitly had stated that it is really hard for them to work together with Game-Freak because they want things to be very specific could've been the problem with Mewtwo's inclusion, so they dropped him, and then put in Wolf instead. I really think that they absolutely wanted Mewtwo to be in up until the last minute, but ran into some huge problem, which is why they had to drop him.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
Sakurai said Dixie was only ever going to be included as a partner for Diddy, and she got dropped as soon as he dropped that idea. That was from something cednym translated.
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That just doesn't really make sense to me.

If it was Ice Climbers style, then they'd still have had to make a completely unique moveset for the AI Dixie. Then you'd have a whole playable moveset that couldn't be accessed by the player.

If it was Zelda/Sheik style, then again, still a unique moveset.

Either way, I don't see any reason to make her part of Diddy instead of her own character.

The only thing I can see is if maybe they intended to only use her for one team-up throw move or something, but that wouldn't make sense for her to be on the character list.

Maybe she was going to be an AI like Ice Climbers, except she didn't have a complete moveset? I don't know, that just seems like a weird concept.

The most logical concept for a DKC-inspired dual character would be a mix between Ice Climbers and Zelda, where both characters are on screen at once, but they both have a unique moveset and you can swap between them. But that seems like something you'd have to build a character around from the ground up, not something you'd try to add to an existing character at the last minute.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
I didn't put as much thought into this as you have in this last page, but I always thought that Wolf was originally scrapped together with most of the other cut characters and brought back near the end of development.
Click to expand...

That sounds weird. You mean he's an amalgamation of Roy, Mewtwo, Young Link, and Dr. Mario? :p
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
fisheyes said:
Wasn't there an interview during the development process where Sakurai brings up the character jingles? The timing of that interview could give a bit of an indication when all these processes happened.
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It was on the original Brawl Dojo, so that was shortly after E3 2008.

Red Arremer said:
Or they just really liked Wolf over Roy.
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I think that was the biggest factor. I get the impression that Sakurai likes Wolf a lot; he was probably looking for an excuse to squeeze him in. When I came up with that theory, I was like "he had a theme so he must have been in the game early on, but he's listed as the last character in the game every time so he must have been one of the last characters implemented, therefore he must have been cut early on or something". Who knows if that's really the case though. The story of how he made it into the game is probably more interesting than most of the rest of the cast either way.

KevinCow said:
Either way, I don't see any reason to make her part of Diddy instead of her own character.
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I think Sakurai's comment on her implied that he just didn't think she was worth adding on her own and that she could really only function as Diddy's gimmick, even if she did have a unique moveset. I guess that's basically how Sheik is.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Guys, Stunt Race FX had a cut music track, i'm pretty pissed right now, on top of that there was a Dread Kong trophy, DK series gets screwed again.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I just realized that while 64 and Melee have characters with no stages, Brawl had stages with no characters.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Green Mamba said:
Brawl still has a character with no stage--R.O.B. In All-Star Mode he's fought on the Mario Bros. stage.
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Oh right, I forgot about him. You could argue that in a meta level, it fits though (being that he's a NES controller it'd be fitting he'd be in a NES-themed world).

What should be his actual stage though? A Gyro-based stage?
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
A Toy shop filled with Nintendo cameos or R.O.B manufacturing factory.
R.O.B exists outside the game world, think of the potential!
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Aero Port Drive also has a giant ROB in it.

ROB only has two games to draw inspiration from and Gyromite is the only one with something that could be transformed into a stage.

Dpb7r.png


Doing a 75m would be chaotic, since the stage designs don't lend themselves to Smash gameplay, so I doubt they'd replicate a level. The gimmick could be that the pistons go up and down, blocking off parts of the stage.

Code: 
_____________________
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A simple box shape stage. Because of the ceiling, side knockoffs are the only possible solution. The pistons mean the sides go up and down so you have to time the knockbacks.

All watched over by a giant looming ROB who slowly presses the buttons.

I'm sure they'd be able to come up with something better since they'll give it more than a minutes thought.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
The Gyromite/Stackup theme song also is played on Mario Bros., if I remember correctly, so I would say that this is ROB's homestage, even though it's not directly credited to him.
 
K

KevinCow

Banned
If they make more retro stages, I hope they just make stages that look like the retro stages, but don't necessarily use their designs. The DK and Mario Bros. stages are neat and all, but they just aren't any fun to play on. Conversely, I've seen some hacked stages that made those designs actually fun to play on, like a DK stage where they kept the elevator but reduced the size and number of platforms. It was still clearly inspired by Donkey Kong, but it was actually fun to play on.

Also, I want a Game & Watch stage that's not annoying as hell.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wait, Gyromite would mean gramps would be attack-able, and that's abuse to elderly. That's a no-no.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Red Arremer said:
The Gyromite/Stackup theme song also is played on Mario Bros., if I remember correctly, so I would say that this is ROB's homestage, even though it's not directly credited to him.
Click to expand...

This is really splitting hairs at this point, but it's no more R.O.B.'s stage than Temple was Marth and Roy's stage in Melee.
 
G

GamerSoul

Member
Red Arremer said:
While your point is fair, I think that tying ROB to an early NES game is almost as good as a dedicated ROB-game stage.
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Agreed. I don't think there is any point to expand on ROB any further. That stage works, imo. But I would like new original stages like a Takamaru one or something.
 
G

GamerSoul

Member
ROB has a little bit of everything. Dude could really get under your skin. Heh. Hopefully, Namco can help a lot with the balancing so there won't be such a drastic nerfing of characters.

And I think Sonic is still in. He was a popular pick and I think they would get more backlash for removing him compared to keeping him.
 
R

RealDeadOne

Member
People are gonna hate me for saying it, but I really hope tripping is in this- but with a twist. It can be made more or less likely with a slider, and you can have specific settings like making it more likely for people who are getting lots of KOs to trip, or players who are jumping/dodging more than others, or players with the most lives.

I thought it was a really funny element for Brawl, but of course on the other hand it could sometimes totally ruin a serious match. I don't see how anyone could argue against the option to have it in though.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
The only character that needs nerfs is Meta Knight. Everyone else needs to stay about the same or get gratuitous amounts of buffs.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
God I hated all the tripping in Brawl, and it always happened right during the "turning point" of a fight.

Im late but I don't think ROB needs to be nerfed...Ice Climbers and their grab spam is a different story tho.

Also Mr. Game and fucking Watch is powerful as well lol.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
There are very few IC players who can do their grab loops properly. Even then, you can zone them out with most characters as is.

G&W needs his bucket slowdown removed.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
You have to remember that they will likely balance the character based on how the average joe plays rather than tourney players. So I wouldn't get too fixated on concepts like chain grabs since the party players probably hasn't even heard of the concept.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Those people have clearly never read the credits of a Nintendo game. Nintendo golds the rights to everything in a game unless explicitly stated, and that includes the engine. Namco is just aiding the development so at most they'll get a character or two thrown in.

The meat of the game game will belong to Nintendo.

This isn't even something that should be discussed because it is so obvious.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I don't mind tripping if it's caused by attacks or items (e.g. banana peel, dtilts). But if it's random? Yeah.

Anth0ny said:
The only character that needs nerfs is Meta Knight. Everyone else needs to stay about the same or get gratuitous amounts of buffs.
Click to expand...

Well, DDD needs some minor nerf too, he's rather fast for a big guy who hits hard.

Also need to overhaul physics so that chain grabbing doesn't become particularly prevalent.
 
C

Chet Rippo

Member
Ookami-kun said:
Well, DDD needs some minor nerf too, he's rather fast for a big guy who hits hard.

Also need to overhaul physics so that chain grabbing doesn't become particularly prevalent.
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He not all that much faster than say DK. If anything, they need to beef up Bowser and Ganondorf instead of nerfing Dedede or DK.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I doubt DK is gonna get nerfed, since he's progressively getting better.

Bowser and Ganondorf got nerfed though right?
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Moderately quick and powerful DK is how it's done, after Brawl I don't think I could accept stepping back down.

Not sure if Bowser got nerfed, I think he got a bit better but he became far less satisfying to use for some reason, not just because the Koopa Claw was awesome.
Ganondorf was a definite downgrade yet in the inverse to Brawl Bowser I much preferred playing as the Dorf in Brawl.
 
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