Togglesworlh
Banned
what
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
- Status
what
If Melee is serious, Street Fighter is the fucking Delorean hitting 88mph.
What kind of Falcon player are you? That was his staple combo in 64. Didn't require any advanced techniques either.
Preface: I don't care about characters that 'I like how they played' or obscure fanboy love for random series. I want to maximize the tribute factor of Smash Bros to the original games and characters so we can take the big faces of the series and ground them heavily in their original material for their attacks while cutting the unnecessary characters.
My wishlist:
-No wasted dev time on a Subspace Emissary revival, keep focus to character specific challenges that actually make use of their skill set to progress forward.
-Kill all the clones dead. This includes cloned supers (wtf Landmaster).
-Supers switched to actually reference things directly from the games the characters appear in (Giga Bowser killed and replaced with CLOWNCOPTER OF DEATH)
-Physics of Melee return.
-Tripping is gone.
-Wave dashing is made a core game mechanic so that it can be properly balanced and easier to execute.
-Colors removed as options multiplayer indicators, instead a heavier focus on extra costumes.
Characters to remove:
-Pichu (made a Pikachu costume)
-Jigglypuff
-Wolf (made a Fox costume)
-Lucas
-Ike
Characters to add (as playable characters):
-Lil Mac
-Isaac
-Animal Crossing Human (female/males are alternate costumes)
-Mii
Third party characters if possible:
-Mega Man (X and pixel version included as costumes)
-Battletoads
-Chrono
-Robotnik (and maintaining Sonic with Shadow as a costume, using Tails as a trophy)
I could also go into crazy amounts of detail on specific character tweaks they should do, but honestly I feel a lot of it is self explanatory just by digging through all these franchises history.
My goal for the next Smash is pretty simple:
-Balance the game around 4 stock matches on extremely simple stages, no items.
-Build balanced supers around a free for all style match with four players.
-Now add gratuitous amounts of crazy weapons and items from all the franchises referenced in the game, and set them all to on and high frequency usage by default with the options to turn them off.
-Make three or four simple platform stages (spiced up through visuals only) for serious players, and go crazy making a bunch of party stages.
I still feel there is no reason that they can't build and balance a competitive fighting game and then dump a ton of crazy party on top. Allow serious players to turn off the crazy stuff. Everyone is happy.
My wishlist:
-No wasted dev time on a Subspace Emissary revival, keep focus to character specific challenges that actually make use of their skill set to progress forward.
-Kill all the clones dead. This includes cloned supers (wtf Landmaster).
-Supers switched to actually reference things directly from the games the characters appear in (Giga Bowser killed and replaced with CLOWNCOPTER OF DEATH)
-Physics of Melee return.
-Tripping is gone.
-Wave dashing is made a core game mechanic so that it can be properly balanced and easier to execute.
-Colors removed as options multiplayer indicators, instead a heavier focus on extra costumes.
Characters to remove:
-Pichu (made a Pikachu costume)
-Jigglypuff
-Wolf (made a Fox costume)
-Lucas
-Ike
Characters to add (as playable characters):
-Lil Mac
-Isaac
-Animal Crossing Human (female/males are alternate costumes)
-Mii
Third party characters if possible:
-Mega Man (X and pixel version included as costumes)
-Battletoads
-Chrono
-Robotnik (and maintaining Sonic with Shadow as a costume, using Tails as a trophy)
I could also go into crazy amounts of detail on specific character tweaks they should do, but honestly I feel a lot of it is self explanatory just by digging through all these franchises history.
My goal for the next Smash is pretty simple:
-Balance the game around 4 stock matches on extremely simple stages, no items.
-Build balanced supers around a free for all style match with four players.
-Now add gratuitous amounts of crazy weapons and items from all the franchises referenced in the game, and set them all to on and high frequency usage by default with the options to turn them off.
-Make three or four simple platform stages (spiced up through visuals only) for serious players, and go crazy making a bunch of party stages.
I still feel there is no reason that they can't build and balance a competitive fighting game and then dump a ton of crazy party on top. Allow serious players to turn off the crazy stuff. Everyone is happy.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh. Man I only ever played with my friends and we were never that serious and I haven't played 64 in years!
Anyway, I'm just speaking in general terms of feel.
Megaman cant even get into his own company's crossover with one of the biggest rosters ever.
hey your new avatar has two eyes
Eyes hole. No one know if the Lady of Pain actually has eyes.
Professor Beef
Banned
Who is Isaac?
Togglesworlh
Banned
From Golden Sun, that western-developed portable JRPG people like for some weird reason.
since when are camelot western
Togglesworlh
Banned
Good question! I don't know why I always thought they were Western. Allow me to amend my statement: "From Golden Sun, that portable JRPG people like for some weird reason."
Professor Beef
Banned
Ohhhhhh yeah. I have a friend who was all over that game when it first came out, but I never saw the appeal.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
And to be fair, they were two rather well-known characters, not super obscure, from a series that only had one rep since the original Smash. And from what I hear, King DeDeDe was planned to be in the original but Sakurai held back as he didn't want to overload his own series.
I've never actually played it, but having a gun-slinging robot cowboy would rock.
Plus us Westerners need our own character.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Technically Diddy Kong's a 'western' character considering he was made by Rare
even if he was originally supposed to be DK Jr. in DKC
Professor Beef
Banned
But Donkey Kong is already DK Jr.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
He is now, but originally while in development DKC's DK was the original DK and Diddy Kong was instead Donkey Kong Jr., but Nintendo wanted a new sidekick/Rare's redesign for DKJr. was retarded/Rare wanted a new sidekick (each interview that talks about this kinda contradicts each other in terms of what led to the character change).
More disturbingly Cranky was originally just some old,nice grandpa ape who legitimately wanted to see you succeed instead of constantly belittling you and going on hilarious rants about pixels and the 80's.
God damn is Donkey Kong a bizarrely convoluted series, both in-game and history-wise.
More disturbingly Cranky was originally just some old,nice grandpa ape who legitimately wanted to see you succeed instead of constantly belittling you and going on hilarious rants about pixels and the 80's.
God damn is Donkey Kong a bizarrely convoluted series, both in-game and history-wise.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
"Donkey Boy"
"Donks"
0.o
Nice call Rare changing that shit.
Also that Japanese title screen looks awesome.
"Donks"
0.o
Nice call Rare changing that shit.
Also that Japanese title screen looks awesome.
Professor Beef
Banned
I really like Cranky Kong the way he was in DKC, thank goodness.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Yeah Cranky Kong is the only good Rare-created Donkey Kong character. Would've been a shame if he was just another inbred ape.
Professor Beef
Banned
I dunno, I liked Funky Kong until DKC3. But then again, there were a lot of things I didn't like about DKC3.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I just can't support a list that gets rid of Lucas for the Battletoads.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
them fightin' words
... Though I admittedly don't like anyone Rare introduced post-DKC2 though (but then DKC3/DK64 weren't done by the DKC/DKC2 team), and Candy has always been a horrible idea with an overlooked theme.
Togglesworlh
Banned
trollface, etc.
no but i really despise almost every single rare dk character - i like cranky and i like dk and i tolerate diddy
THAT'S IT
get outta here
no but i really despise almost every single rare dk character - i like cranky and i like dk and i tolerate diddy
THAT'S IT
get outta here
DICKS AHOY
Banned
So what was wrong with Funky and Dixie? The former I GUESS sort of exudes a cheesy 90's COOL DUDE look which can irk people, but the latter was a legitimately useful character whose character design (giant banana ponytail) worked well with the whole hover/pick up stuff with your hair mechanic.
The other's I could take or leave, though I guess Lanky had the misfortune of debuting alongside Chunky and Tiny who were utterly pointless in an utterly bland game. Candy's the only offensively bad design for me, while the other's were just kind of... there. It's not like Sonic's far worse extended cast where you have some sort of plot or excruciatingly bad cutscenes to go off when criticizing them.
The other's I could take or leave, though I guess Lanky had the misfortune of debuting alongside Chunky and Tiny who were utterly pointless in an utterly bland game. Candy's the only offensively bad design for me, while the other's were just kind of... there. It's not like Sonic's far worse extended cast where you have some sort of plot or excruciatingly bad cutscenes to go off when criticizing them.
Togglesworlh
Banned
their designs are horrible dixie is fucking repulsive for god's sake kill it with fire die die die dixie DixIE it's even in the name IT'S LIKE THEY KNEW
Hem-hem.
Being "not as bad as Sonic" is hardly a compliment.
Hem-hem.
Being "not as bad as Sonic" is hardly a compliment.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
phew you had me going for awhile there
Seriously though, that's a pretty intense hatred over something you can't really articulate your hatred over in the first place. Also I brought up Sonic in terms of characters you can hate for constantly being forced to play as or thrown in your face with large extravagant plots, while with the characters you're listing are just kind of either there in the background or optional in the majority of what are pretty straightforward, 2D platforming games. I don't think anybody here would seriously believe saying 'well this isn't as bad as X the Animal in Sonic' would be a legitimate argument for anything.
SO HEY WHAT ABOUT THAT SMASH BROS EH SURE HOPE THEY REPLACE THAT SAKURAI AND REPLACE HIM WITH WHOEVER MADE MELEE
Seriously though, that's a pretty intense hatred over something you can't really articulate your hatred over in the first place. Also I brought up Sonic in terms of characters you can hate for constantly being forced to play as or thrown in your face with large extravagant plots, while with the characters you're listing are just kind of either there in the background or optional in the majority of what are pretty straightforward, 2D platforming games. I don't think anybody here would seriously believe saying 'well this isn't as bad as X the Animal in Sonic' would be a legitimate argument for anything.
SO HEY WHAT ABOUT THAT SMASH BROS EH SURE HOPE THEY REPLACE THAT SAKURAI AND REPLACE HIM WITH WHOEVER MADE MELEE
The Xtortionist
Member
Would anyone object to the next game having gameplay/physics similar to Brawl+? I've played it a bit and enjoy the hell out of it, especially with Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. Wondering what the GAF consensus is.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Sure I can. They're repulsive, unattractive, inbred turds. Their design is atrocious. Their personalities (what little they have, granted) are annoying.
It's not as if I'm losing sleep over it. I just would rather not ever see them again, ever.
AlphaDragoon
Member
Get out.
I would like to see an Ike closer to the actual one though. I loved Ike's "smash them in the face with big ass power" style but it's far from how he actually fights. Dude is FAST when he fights as a Lord in Path of Radiance, with a lot of acrobatics (backflips and the like). I think they should have tried a bit harder to implement his shockwave slash technique, there had to be a way to make it fair and not suck at the same time.
As a tradeoff to Marth who is now the fast FE character, maybe just make him Roy speed, and give him more of his actual moveset (take out Eruption, for example).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Thank goodness you aren't making the game.
Also, thank goodness Smash isn't pulling a Capcom wherein instead of developing a character into something unique they turn them into costumes instead. Players who wanted that to happen are scum, no matter what game it is.
If Brawl+ was so great people would be playing it.
"Pulling a Capcom" in reality means "throwing pathetic, intolerant and ignorant fans a bone anyways in the form of multiple references in a game when the budget isn't big enough" when MM fans take their blinders off.
In which case, more devs need to pull a Capcom. Oh and Smash prefers clones over that anyways, which is much more terrible IMO.
Black-Wind
Member
I ... have to agree to some level.
I do feel like everything "wrong" I see with brawl came from him for the most part.
But who knows? Maybe those things were because of the Wii. Maybe he was asked to make it floaty, mashy crap because they wanted the Wii-noob-crowd to like it. Maybe this time, with Wii U being more gamer focused, we can get something better.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You mean like Smash has also been doing? Or hell, any fighting game has been doing? It's nothing Capcom had originally done - it's a norm to see "cameos" and "references" on long standing fighting games or games in general.
And I stand by what I say - Melee only started the "clone" stuff. Had there been no clones in Melee and Brawl introduced the "clones" in their game, they wouldn't be referred as such.
Also, no - you can still develop "clones" as opposed to lifeless costumes that it feels like you are playing a lie.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Costumes are fine, as long as it's not an excuse to put less effort into developing more characters.
Unlockable "costumes" that modify the feel of the character (essentially removing the "wastes of character slots" while still keeping them in the game) are even better.
The latter would probably not happen, though.
Unlockable "costumes" that modify the feel of the character (essentially removing the "wastes of character slots" while still keeping them in the game) are even better.
The latter would probably not happen, though.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Pichu isn't in Brawl...
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dunno. Seeing Wolf not fight as a werewolf or Lucas fight not as a wimpy boy is the last thing I want from this game.
It's just as absurd as Jon Talbain using the celestial brush or X using Zero's attacks. Of course, if you think the latter is fine, then you are scum for thinking X6 is a good game. No, good music will not save a terrible game.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I don't think you actually read what I said.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I got what you said, it just seem like you imply they'll only alter dialog, voice, and what not, but not the style, etc.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Nope.
So thank god smash isn't pulling a capcom when that's what smash has been doing? I'm confused.
And yet I don't think Melee started clones. Ken predates Smash, and I'm sure there are examples even before SF/Capcom got the idea. Sure you can develop clones, but I doubt that's the case with Nintendo. I have generally very low expectations from Nintendo, but they're only a reflection of their goals. Nintendo has no incentive to develop their clones into something unique. Why would they when the sheer existence of clones alone satisfies the masses? The franchise oozes fanservice. Fanservice is the main goal and always has been for Smash, before gameplay, before balancing, before featureset. Clones aren't going anywhere and won't be unless Nintendo has some epiphany one day when they realize that gameplay is more important than fanservice. I myself would prefer a middle ground, where fanservice is still of grave importance, but gameplay is given a serious focus, but that's impossible.
I don't know what about "lifeless" costumes make something a lie. It's a costume, not a character. If your downloading a costume expecting a character, a reality check is in order; you downloaded a costume, and were not promised anything more. There is no intent to develop them into something else, it is not a necessity, and expectations shouldn't be built as such, so I don't see why they should be.
This is the intolerance I spoke of before, if you built up expectations, that's your fault, not the devs because you choose to pin some sort of arbitrary label of your own of your own onto something. In this specific case, Niitsuma wanted 20 new characters. Marvel & Capcom said you have a deadline, and thus only 12 made it out of the final pool. X was not one of them. There is no lie or misdirected intentions there, the producer expressed his opinions on why Megaman wasn't in the game shortly after the release of MvC3.
If your playing a lie, it's a lie you made to yourself.
Togglesworlh
Banned
How are clones doing a disservice to the gameplay? They offer an alternative to people who might not like that type of character otherwise. It's actually good for the gameplay for those people.
Because your making an aesthetic choice not a gameplay one. They may as well be costumes because the only rationale for choosing them are the alternate aesthetics, but people find comfort in a separate character slot for their beloved character for some reason. And this compulsive need for *more* characters in slots a huge reason why Smash is so successful too. It's cool though, I'd rather they focus on that than gameplay in Smash.
It's a disservice to gameplay and a plague for fighting games, still.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You're the one who put it out. I simply stated about costumes rather than references.
Except they did. Have you played Brawl? The only "clone" is Falco. The characters who are referred as clones, like Lucas and Wolf, are very different, and the only reason they are stated as such is because of four to five moves being almost similar.
Hell, people think Ike is a clone. Fucking IKE.
See here's the thing - they already develop the model. They might as well go the extra mile. I'm not talking about Ryu changing his dress - I'm talking about actually remodeling Zero into X.
I don't even see how X fits here...
And no, rather have at them at the developers. Maybe the should not be spouting stuff or at least not have a set date. Even Skyrim has that problem of rushing things to meet a date they stated.
But, as many people said, Brawl "clones" are barely clones at all as opposed in Melee. Wolf is essentially a character of his own, more so than Ken is to Ryu even.
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