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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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Apparently people think Dillon, Shulk, Saki, etc. won't be playable because they're second party.

The franchises are first party, even if the development was "second party." And in the case of Shulk, Monolith is actually fully owned by Nintendo, so that second-party distinction is outright false.

If you want a counterpoint to this argument, Game Freak- the studio that develops the Pokemon series - is privately owned and not part of Nintendo. That didn't stop Smash Bros. from being full of Pokemon. Star Fox - another series with a substantial Smash presence - has been farmed out to external developers such as Namco, Rare, and Q Games for most of its recent titles- making it "second party" as well.

If Nintendo owns the characters, it doesn't matter who develops their games.
 
Not to mention Diddy Kong being in Brawl; if Nintendo didn't mind having a major newcomer be someone one of Microsoft's 1st parties once created in happier times, I doubt they care about whether somebody else in SSB4 is 1st/2nd/3rd.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The franchises are first party, even if the development was "second party." And in the case of Shulk, Monolith is actually fully owned by Nintendo, so that second-party distinction is outright false.

If you want a counterpoint to this argument, Game Freak- the studio that develops the Pokemon series - is privately owned and not part of Nintendo. That didn't stop Smash Bros. from being full of Pokemon. Star Fox - another series with a substantial Smash presence - has been farmed out to external developers such as Namco, Rare, and Q Games for most of its recent titles- making it "second party" as well.

If Nintendo owns the characters, it doesn't matter who develops their games.

Wasn't SNES Star Fox made with Argonaut? The only "pure" first party was 64.
 
If Sakurai were to deem a 2nd party character worthy of a spot in Smash, then he's going to add a 2nd party character. The fact that Pokémon and 3rd party characters are in Smash makes 2nd party not as big of an issue as people think.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
If Sakurai were to deem a 2nd party character worthy of a spot in Smash, then he's going to add a 2nd party character. The fact that Pokémon and 3rd party characters are in Smash makes 2nd party not as big of an issue as people think.
Yeah, that's why we don't have any Pokemon in the Smash games.
Right? Right?

Go blame Smash flunkies wanting dem patterns like Pokemon and Fire Emblem.
 

Snakey

Member
Its that time again. Its been a while since I last did an analysis on the results of Shortie's poll (close to a week ago), and since then there has been A LOT of new votes. The results and standings for the characters in the poll have changed quite a bit since then. Last time I did an analysis, the poll was at around 450 votes, now its around 815.

Mega Man (430)
Mewtwo (394)
Ridley (341)
K. Rool (321)
Little Mac (312)
Waluigi (265)
Isaac (261)
Palutena (230)
Roy (205)
Shulk (201)
Ghirahim (187)
Chrom (181)
Bowser Jr. (167)
Takamaru (157)
Pac-Man (154)
Geno (152)
Saki (131)
Zoroark (128)
Krystal (127)
Toad (126)
Samurai Goroh (122)
Dixie Kong (110)
Black Shadow (93)
Waddle Dee (80)
Mona (73)

Mega Man:
During the last analysis, Mega Man was on par with Mewtwo in terms of votes. However, this time, Mega Man has a sizable lead over Mewtwo. Mega Man seems to be the next Sonic, in the sense that he is more requested than any other Nintendo character, and yet the only widely requested third-party character. It makes sense that Mega Man is at the top of this poll considering that Mega Man is one of the most iconic video game characters and has a strong history with Nintendo consoles. Mega Man is probably the one newcomer that could bring the most hype to Smash 4. He stands a very good chance of being confirmed at E3 2013 for this very reason.

Mewtwo:
Although Mewtwo has fallen behind Mega Man, he is definitely a very solid second place, with the character with the third most votes being more than 50 votes behind Mewtwo. Mewtwo falling behind Mega Man is possibly due to him not being the single-most important character to an iconic series like Mega Man is. However, Mewtwo is definitely the most popular Pokemon that was not playable in Brawl, and by far the most iconic legendary Pokemon in the series. Mewtwo hailing from a series that is one of the Nintendo's two biggest, and already having been in Smash Bros. before, gives him an edge over every other character not named Mega Man. Mewtwo has the potential to become even more requested due to his upcoming appearance in the next Pokemon movie. Mewtwo is a candidate for a character to be confirmed at E3 2013 due to how strongly desired he is for Smash 4, especially factoring in both the Western and Japanese fanbases.

Ridley:
In the previous analysis, Ridley was on par with K. Rool for votes. Now he has a sizable lead over K. Rool in votes. Ridley having a lead over K. Rool is probably due to that there has been a much longer wait for Ridley (there has been a large amount of fans asking for Ridley for over a decade, while the demand for K. Rool really did not take off until Diddy Kong was confirmed in late 2007), as well as Ridley having at least two prominent appearances since Brawl's release. Ridley has been with the Metroid series since the very beginning and is the most iconic character from that series aside from Samus herself. Ridley is probably the one Nintendo newcomer that could produce the most hype for Smash 4. Ridley stands a very good chance of being among the first newcomers shown at E3 2013 for this very reason (especially considering E3 is a Western show, and Ridley is especially desired in the West).

K. Rool:
K. Rool has fallen behind Ridley since the last analysis. K. Rool is definitely among the Top 5 most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 though. K. Rool is similar to Ridley in that he is the closest thing to a main antagonist for his respective series, however, K. Rool has a few deficits that make him fall behind Ridley. One is that K. Rool's last major game role was pretty much Donkey Kong 64, which was released in late 1999. Although he had the role of antagonist in Paon's DK games (the last of which was released in 2007), none of those sold well or had the reception of Rare's DK games. The only DK game that has been able to match Rare's games in sales and fan reception was Donkey Kong Country Returns, of which K. Rool (and Dixie Kong) were absent. For this, its possible there is a faction of DK fans that are unfamiliar with K. Rool, or at least don't see him as important to the franchise. Regardless, K. Rool is still far more requested than nearly every other possible newcomer, and has a good chance of being one of the newcomers shown at E3 2013 due to the strong demand for him.

Little Mac:
Little Mac has made big strides since the last analysis. He is now within striking distance of K. Rool, and has over 50 votes over the character that is in sixth place on the poll. Little Mac is definitely within the Top 5 most wanted characters in the West. Little Mac being where he is mostly due to being the most iconic character for a long-running Punch-Out series. The NES Punch-Out remains one of the most popular titles for the console, and the Wii installment was very well-received. With a series that began in 1984, and has had five installments, Little Mac is probably the best candidate for a newcomer for a series that has yet to have a playable character in Smash Bros. Due to his very high popularity in the West, like all the other characters mentioned so far, he has a good chance of being among the first newcomers unveiled for Smash 4 at E3 2013.

Waluigi:
Waluigi made massive strides since the last analysis. However, I strongly doubt Waluigi is the sixth-most wanted character for Smash 4. The very strong performance for Waluigi in the poll right now can be pointed to Shortie posting the poll at 4chan (of which Waluigi is extremely popular due to his meme and troll status amongst Nintendo characters). Looking at polls held at other websites, Waluigi's popularity is usually on par with other characters (on GameFAQs) or on par with Paper Mario (on SmashBoards). He is definitely not the sixth most wanted character for Smash 4 (or the seventh, or the eighth, or even the ninth). I think his performance in this poll had it not been for the 4channers would be behind Roy and Shulk, and around where Ghirahim is (probably slightly behind). Of all the popularly requested characters, Waluigi probably has the most detractors, and is the least likely to get in Smash 4. He will probably reprise his role as an Assist Trophy though due to high popularity.

Isaac:
Regardless of being seventh place on this poll right now, I don't think there is any doubt in my mind that overall Isaac is the sixth most wanted newcomer for Smash 4 in the West. Since the last time I did an analysis, Isaac has further cemented himself as the sixth-most wanted character by having an even larger lead over Palutena (over 30 votes). The Golden Sun series is probably the most popular Nintendo series aside from Punch-Out that has yet to have a playable character in Smash Bros., and Isaac remains by far the most popular main character of that series. As I said before, it really speaks volumes about how much Isaac's fanbase has held up over the years. As with Ridley, there have been people asking for him for Smash Bros. for over a decade. After E3 2013, Isaac stands a strong chances of being among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4.

Palutena:
As with Isaac, she fell to eighth-place since last time, however, I feel she is definitely overall the seventh-most wanted character for Smash 4. She is definitely by far the most wanted female newcomer for Smash 4, and overall by far the most likely. She has a solid lead over Roy and Shulk in the poll now. She stands a very good chance at being among the first newcomers unveiled at E3 2013 too. There is not much else to say about her.

Roy:
Roy's position stayed the same relative to the last even with the Waluigi surge. However, ignoring Waluigi's surge, Roy's eighth place in the poll, and slightly ahead of Shulk. As I said last time, Roy being within the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 should not come as a surprise. He is basically Mewtwo on a smaller scale. In Japan, demand is even stronger for Roy (probably the most wanted character there after Mewtwo). As with Palutena, there is nothing much else to say about Roy this time since he basically stayed the same relative to last time (with the exception of moving past Shulk).

Shulk:
Shulk's position pretty much stated the same with the exception of Roy catching up to him. As I said last time, I think the primary reason why there is not more interest in Shulk is due to the low availability of Xenoblade and how few people played the game he was featured in relative to nearly every other character on this list. Its impressive that Shulk is as high as he is considering Xenoblade was not a big sales hit. If it turns out Shulk is the main protagonist of X (or has some sort of importance in it), his support has the potential to increase further.

Ghirahim:
Yet another character whose position has remained relatively consistent. The only character he has passed up compared to last time was Takamaru. As I mentioned last time, I think Ghirahim is where he is due to that Skyward Sword was not received as well as previous 3D home console Zelda games. Ghirahim will probably continue to enjoy high levels of support until we first see the next home console Zelda. If Link is shown having his Skyward Sword design at E3 2013, then the Ghirahim fanbase has the potential to grow, or at least become much more confident.

Chrom:
Chrom has done much better relative to last time. Last time he had the same amount of votes as Zoroark, and was only less 10 votes ahead of Toad, Saki, Geno, Krystal, and Dixie Kong. He was also behind Pac-Man, Bowser Jr., and Takamaru. Now he is within striking distance of even Ghirahim. Like with Shulk, Chrom is basically riding on the accolades of his source material game. It will be curious to see if Chrom's popularity lasts since there is still skepticism about what he could bring to Smash Bros. However, Chrom has definitely separated himself from Zoroark.

Bowser Jr.:
Although Bowser Jr. is basically 100 votes behind Waluigi, he has done a bit better compared to last time. He is further ahead of Pac-Man than he was last time, and he even managed to pass up Takamaru. Like with Waluigi, there is now a generation of Mario fans that have grown up without knowing what the series was like without that character's presence. Bowser Jr. has basically served as the main antagonist for several of the Mario platformers he has been in (although Bowser is always the final boss in them). Bowser Jr. is definitely a popular choice for Smash Bros., however, unlike many other characters, there is little else that can be done that could boost his support for Smash Bros. Although the same could also be said for Paper Mario and Toad.

Takamaru:
One of the biggest losers compared to the last time I did an analysis on this poll. Last time, Takamaru was 11th place on the poll, and was basically on par with Waluigi (only one vote behind) and less than 10 votes behind Roy. Now, Takamaru has fallen much, much further behind Waluigi and Roy, and a slew of other characters have left him in the dust such as Ghirahim, Chrom, and Bowser Jr. Pac-Man and Geno are also within five votes of passing him up as well. It seems to be that although Takamaru is by far the most popular retro character for Smash Bros., it seems that he may only be a popular choice among avid Smash Bros. or Nintendo fans. To many people, he is pretty much unknown. Probably the most played game featuring him is Nintendo Land. Despite Takamaru's much lower position on the list, he is definitely among the most likely potential newcomers to be shown at E3 2013. For those curious, relative to Pit (before he was confirmed), Takamaru is definitely less requested. This is perhaps even worse when considering that most of Smash 4's potential newcomers don't compare to the newcomer pool that Brawl had. However, going for Pit, he had two games released in the West, and the Smash Bros. fanbase knew who he was from his trophy in Melee. By comparison, the only exposure Western players have had to Takamaru is Samurai Warriors 3 (which was a niche release in the West) and Nintendo Land.

Pac-Man:
Pac-Man's position is pretty much the same as compared to last time with the exception that he has now left Zoroark, Toad, Saki, Krystal, and Dixie Kong in the dust. He is very close to to Takamaru's position in the poll right now. As said before, it really shows how low demand is for another third-party character aside from Mega Man that Pac-Man is not higher than he is. Pac-Man stands a good chance of being shown at E3 2013 if Namco managed to get Sakurai to agree to include one of their characters (it will pretty much be him or a Tales character).

Geno:
Geno is another character that has done much better compared to last time. Last time he was among the lowest characters in the poll, with the only ones lower than him being Saki, Krystal, and Dixie Kong (and with him being only one or two votes ahead of them), and of course the three main bottom tier characters (Black Shadow, Waddle Dee, and Mona). Now, Geno has blown past Saki, Zoroark, Krystal, Toad, Samurai Goroh, and Dixie Kong. That he is very competitive with Pac-Man and Takamaru shows that a fraction of his fanbase from the pre-Brawl days still survives, though much, much smaller. Super Mario RPG, like other popular RPGs for the SNES, will continue to have a large cult following for years to come.

Saki:
Saki has been a bit more successful compared to last time. Saki was pretty much on par with Dixie Kong and Krystal for votes last time, and overall behind every other character on the poll with the exception of Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow, Waddle Dee, and Mona. Since then, he is now ahead of the rest as far as Zoroark, Krystal, Toad, and Samurai Goroh are concerned (though from Saki to Samurai Goroh there is a less than 10 vote difference).

Zoroark:
Zoroark has done much worse compared to last time. He is no longer competitive with Chrom, Pac-Man, or Bowser Jr. for votes, and characters that were behind him such as Geno and Saki have also passed him up. As I mentioned last time, I think Zoroark's popularity is just going to depreciate further the closer we get to Pokemon X/Y and the next Pokemon movie (which co-stars Mewtwo). Zoroark is still the most popular Black/White Pokemon (though the movie with Genesect may change that), however, his popularity is only going to shrink further from here on out.

Krystal:
Like Saki, Krystal has done a bit better this time. She is now competitive with Zoroark and on par with Toad. Due to Dixie Kong's poor performance compared to last time, I believe Krystal to be overall the second most wanted female newcomer (or at least in the West). She faces the problem in that her source material (ignoring Command which is often regarded as having by far her worst role in the series) is fading from memory (Assault was released eight years ago), and the legacy of the post-64 Star Fox games has been sour. There have been rumors of a new Star Fox game lately, and if it does exist, it will probably be shown at E3 2013. However, such a new title could be a double-edged sword. If the new game does have Krystal in it, she could quickly become the most wanted female newcomer for Smash 4 (especially if Palutena ends up being confirmed at E3 2013) and even re-capture some of her pre-Brawl thunder, however, if she is appears to be absent from the new title (it ends up being a reboot), then that will basically mean her fanbase will depreciate further than it already has. If no new Star Fox game is announced at E3 2013, her situation will probably remain constant compared to where it is now.

Toad:
Things are really bad for this little guy. The fact that he is much further behind the likes of Geno and Waluigi, and not even competitive with Bowser Jr., shows that there is a perception of him that he cannot shake off despite being a playable character in a main Mario title that was among the best selling game during this generation. I believe that for many Mario fans that grew up during the Nintendo 64 and GameCube eras, they have not known Toad to be able to have a combative role, and see the character as a coward who is afraid to fight, or simply bland and uninteresting. Regardless, the fact that the New Super Mario Bros. games have not done more for Toad is really bad for the character. If two very popular and well-received mainline Mario titles cannot boost support for him past other Mario characters, what can? The character is incredibly popular among Mario fans (especially Mario Kart fans) and female fans of the series, however, it seems among Smash Bros. fans, there is simply less interest in him than any other possible Mario newcomer.

Samurai Goroh:
Samurai Goroh has done slightly better compared to last time. Last time, he was behind every other character with the exceptions of Black Shadow, Waddle Dee, and Mona. Now he is basically competitive with the other low tier characters in this poll (within 10 votes of Saki for example, who is at the top of the low-tier characters). As with Krystal, Samurai Goroh faces the problem that his source material is fading from memory. Again like Krystal, the main thing that can be done to help (get more fan interest) Goroh is a new game announcement, though that is pretty unlikely. Samurai Goroh is definitely still the preferred choice for a second F-Zero character, however, lately there does not appear to be demand for a second playable F-Zero character, especially compared to years past.

Dixie Kong:
Dixie Kong is in trouble. I mentioned last time that she would eventually be doing better once K. Rool is confirmed, however, even still she should not be as low as she is right now. She is at least 10 votes below the lowest low-tier character in this poll (Samurai Goroh), and a bottom-tier character (Black Shadow) is less than 20 votes away from her. Do many K. Rool fans feel threatened by Dixie Kong? Or do many DK fans who grew up on the N64 and GameCube simply unfamiliar with her? Even still, the GBA ports and Virtual Console re-releases should of at least exposed to her to a new generation of fans. I think overall she is the third-most wanted female characters for Smash 4 (at least in the West), and that no other female character comes close to her for her third place, so she at least has that. I think Dixie Kong would probably be massively helped by a new appearance in a game, even if its something small like being a playable character again in another Mario spinoff. If the rumored Diddy Kong Racing Wii U is real, she could easily become the most wanted female newcomer for Smash 4 (especially if Palutena is also confirmed at E3 2013). Dixie Kong has the most to gain of any character due to outside factors (a K. Rool confirmation and a new game appearance) in regards to increasing interest in her.

Black Shadow:
Black Shadow has easily fared much better than the other two bottom-tier characters in this poll. He is 20 votes ahead of Mona, and more 10 votes ahead of Waddle Dee. However, he is still far away from any other character with the possible except of Dixie Kong. He suffers more than Goroh due to the lack of any new F-Zero releases, since Goroh at least has some prominence within Smash Bros. Overall, the low position of these two F-Zero characters shows just how little demand there is for a F-Zero newcomer.

Waddle Dee:
Waddle Dee at least now has a bit of a lead over Mona (last time he was ahead by only two votes). However, now he is no longer even competitive with Black Shadow. Despite the character of Bandana Dee offering a lot of promise for a moveset and his recent prominence within the Kirby series, it seems a lot of people are skeptical about the character, and largely feel he is just a generic enemy. He seems to have the same problem as Toad though on a more pronounced level.

Mona:
Mona has fallen behind both of the other bottom-tier characters. There is just no interest in a second playable Wario character (Captain Syrup was an option in the poll over at SmashBoards, and she performed as poorly as Mona is doing now).
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
As much as I love MegaMan (although I don't really like Classic), knowing Capcpom his appearance is very little.
 
Megaman is one of the very few characters whose inclusion in Smash would probably only make me disappointed. Now it's true you don't need to currently be a gaming superstar to get in (see Ice Climbers, Pit, and even Sonic), but Megaman is LITERALLY the icon of what is by many considered to be the biggest industry fuck-up this generation. And that's not even including Capcom using a fan-game to celebrate the series' 25th anniversary or the canceling of an iOS localization being the US branch's most applauded contribution in years.

I'll take Pacman anyday. At least he still makes people happy.
 

J-Tier

Member
Megaman is one of the very few characters whose inclusion in Smash would probably only make me disappointed. Now it's true you don't need to currently be a gaming superstar to get in (see Ice Climbers, Pit, and even Sonic), but Megaman is LITERALLY the icon of what is by many considered to be the biggest industry fuck-up this generation. And that's not even including Capcom using a fan-game to celebrate the series' 25th anniversary or the canceling of an iOS localization being the US branch's most applauded contribution in years.

I'll take Pacman anyday. At least he still makes people happy.

Same opinion here, though the reasons I'd be disappointed are different. I was never enamored with Mega Man and I feel like he really doesn't belong in Smash. If anything, he belongs in the next Capcom crossover. But not Smash. It may happen in the end, but I would have welcomed many other characters before poor ol' Rock.
 
Actually, Pac-Man would make me more disappointed than Mega Man would.

If only because I like Klonoa more. Oh, sure, he's second-rate compared to a gaming icon, but hell if that means I have to like it!
 

KevinCow

Banned
Megaman is one of the very few characters whose inclusion in Smash would probably only make me disappointed. Now it's true you don't need to currently be a gaming superstar to get in (see Ice Climbers, Pit, and even Sonic), but Megaman is LITERALLY the icon of what is by many considered to be the biggest industry fuck-up this generation. And that's not even including Capcom using a fan-game to celebrate the series' 25th anniversary or the canceling of an iOS localization being the US branch's most applauded contribution in years.

I'll take Pacman anyday. At least he still makes people happy.

It's true that Capcom's handling of Mega Man has been full of fuck-ups, especially in recent years, but that doesn't negate how important he was during the NES era. I'd argue that he was probably the second most popular character at the time (with Mario being #1, of course). He was pretty much an honorary Nintendo mascot.

By your logic, we should kick Samus out because of how awful Other M was.



On the topic of third-party characters, Mirror of Fate has renewed my interest in Simon Belmont being in Smash. Like Mega Man, he was basically an honorary Nintendo mascot in the NES days. And between his whip and subweapons, he was practically made for Smash.

And they gotta use the Mirror of Fate design. Easily the best 3D model of Simon, especially with that bitchin' beard.
 

qq more

Member
Megaman is one of the very few characters whose inclusion in Smash would probably only make me disappointed. Now it's true you don't need to currently be a gaming superstar to get in (see Ice Climbers, Pit, and even Sonic), but Megaman is LITERALLY the icon of what is by many considered to be the biggest industry fuck-up this generation. And that's not even including Capcom using a fan-game to celebrate the series' 25th anniversary or the canceling of an iOS localization being the US branch's most applauded contribution in years.

I'll take Pacman anyday. At least he still makes people happy.
A WELL LOVED FRANCHISE GETS KILLED OFF FOR NO GOOD REASON

THEREFORE IT WOULD BE VERY DISAPPOINTING IF SAID FRANCHISE GETS REPRESENTED IN THIS CROSSOVER
 
Pac-Man:
Pac-Man's position is pretty much the same as compared to last time with the exception that he has now left Zoroark, Toad, Saki, Krystal, and Dixie Kong in the dust. He is very close to to Takamaru's position in the poll right now. As said before, it really shows how low demand is for another third-party character aside from Mega Man that Pac-Man is not higher than he is. Pac-Man stands a good chance of being shown at E3 2013 if Namco managed to get Sakurai to agree to include one of their characters (it will pretty much be him or a Tales character).


IDK how this poll was made or decided upon but I would take Pac-man's lack of popularity as simply lack of interest in him as a character and not 3rd party characters in general ...

Actually, Pac-Man would make me more disappointed than Mega Man would.

If only because I like Klonoa more. Oh, sure, he's second-rate compared to a gaming icon, but hell if that means I have to like it!

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

People may disagree with me but like I said, if Namco gets a character in I simply don't see it being something other than a character for Namco fans at it's core ... and that would likely be a character from Tekken/ SC or maybe even Tales of.

By your logic, we should kick Samus out because of how awful Other M was.
That's kinda not the same ... like, at all.

The only logic we really know behind 3rd party characters getting in is X friend/ company asks Sakurai to put in Y character. Hell, he says that's why MM didn't make it into Brawl ... no one from Capcom asked.

And Capcom, right now, seems like they couldn't give two rat butts about MM. Even less than they did in Brawl's days.
 

Mr. Fix

Member
Mega Man:
During the last analysis, Mega Man was on par with Mewtwo in terms of votes. However, this time, Mega Man has a sizable lead over Mewtwo. Mega Man seems to be the next Sonic, in the sense that he is more requested than any other Nintendo character, and yet the only widely requested third-party character. It makes sense that Mega Man is at the top of this poll considering that Mega Man is one of the most iconic video game characters and has a strong history with Nintendo consoles. Mega Man is probably the one newcomer that could bring the most hype to Smash 4. He stands a very good chance of being confirmed at E3 2013 for this very reason.

Isaac:
Regardless of being seventh place on this poll right now, I don't think there is any doubt in my mind that overall Isaac is the sixth most wanted newcomer for Smash 4 in the West. Since the last time I did an analysis, Isaac has further cemented himself as the sixth-most wanted character by having an even larger lead over Palutena (over 30 votes). The Golden Sun series is probably the most popular Nintendo series aside from Punch-Out that has yet to have a playable character in Smash Bros., and Isaac remains by far the most popular main character of that series. As I said before, it really speaks volumes about how much Isaac's fanbase has held up over the years. As with Ridley, there have been people asking for him for Smash Bros. for over a decade. After E3 2013, Isaac stands a strong chances of being among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4.

Shulk:
Shulk's position pretty much stated the same with the exception of Roy catching up to him. As I said last time, I think the primary reason why there is not more interest in Shulk is due to the low availability of Xenoblade and how few people played the game he was featured in relative to nearly every other character on this list. Its impressive that Shulk is as high as he is considering Xenoblade was not a big sales hit. If it turns out Shulk is the main protagonist of X (or has some sort of importance in it), his support has the potential to increase further.

Megaman

While it's true that Capcom is daft when it comes to Megaman, they've at least assured people multiple times that he isn't dead. Not sure if it's just words, but given how popular the smash series is, what better way to show that he really hasn't kicked the bucket? This is of course, optimistically speaking.

Isaac

It's also nice to see that Isaac/GS fans are still vocal, especially when it comes to smash. I really think his chances of being included in were at its peak for Brawl, but given how Sakurai probably has a lot more control over the roster than SuperBot/Sony did with All Stars, I guess it really depends on whether or not Sakurai himself wants to include him.

Shulk

As for Shulk, while he may not be the most popular, the reception Xenoblade got can't be overlooked. I could see him getting in even if X is only loosely related to Xeno and has a new protagonist. Again though, it's really difficult to tell since smash candidates aren't exactly based around direct promotion, but rather a true celebration of its franchises/Sakurai's picks.
 
Sonic got into Brawl easily despite his games at the time being beyond shithouse. If Mega Man doesn't get into SSB4 I don't think it'll have much to do with the status of his franchise. Sakurai's has also openly admitted since Melee's dojo Mega Man is a regularly requested character; if Nintendo approaches Capcom he's going to be who they ask for first.

Though I guess Capcom could do the same thing they did to PSASBR and get them to use a more unpopular version of the character; here comes Bad Box-Art Mega Man for shits and giggles!
 

GamerSoul

Member
Damn, Megaman is still getting love? I will be shocked if he actually gets in at this point even though he deserves it. And Im not surprised Chrom is getting votes. I think FE:A has been great in introducing more people to FE. I really need to play that game :/

Is there a bad taste virus going around?

Must be >_>; lol.
 

Snakey

Member
IDK how this poll was made or decided upon but I would take Pac-man's lack of popularity as simply lack of interest in him as a character and not 3rd party characters in general ...

Then name the third-party character that would do better. You won't because there is not one. Its pretty much Pac-Man that is the most wanted third-party character after Mega Man.

I wonder if Roy fans realise the irony about voting for him.

This makes no sense. It was also Sakurai's idea to include characters like Sheik, Mr. Game & Watch, ROB, Pokemon Trainer, and Zero Suit Samus, yet I don't here this line of reasoning for them. Heck, the main reason why Ike was included was due a to suggestion he received from Intelligent Systems (he asked them for advice on who to include as the FE newcomer for Brawl). This goes up there with, "they aren't real fans because they have not played his game" as another dumb line of reasoning (nevermind that you would pretty much have to either do illegal activities, or may a hefty amount to import to actually play it). I don't see this line of reasoning used against Ice Climbers, ROB, Marth, Ness, Lucas, and Ike, all of whom most of the people who like them have not played their game of origin either.

Sakurai pretty much designs nearly all of his characters to be likable without anyone actually knowing anything about them. Sakurai pretty much stated in Roy's Melee announcement that although Roy's game was not out yet, he felt that lots of players would end up loving Roy for his "charm". Sakurai does this with all of his characters in Smash Bros., and its no wonder why people end up becoming fans of characters they know nothing about.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
The irony is that if there was a poll for character inclusion in Melee Roy would never have been an option. You basically just brought in another argument that I never made to have a go at me. The fact that they liked him because of his Melee inclusion further highlights that these popularity polls don't necessarily translate into what the fans will like.
 

Snakey

Member
The irony is that if there was a poll for character inclusion in Melee Roy would never have been an option. You basically just brought in another argument that I never made to have a go at me. The fact that they liked him because of his Melee inclusion further highlights that these popularity polls don't necessarily translate into what the fans will like.

No, I thought you were using one of those "if you have not played their game, you can't be a fan of them" statements.

Also, in regards to the last sentence, are you saying that the fans would not like Ridley, Mega Man, K. Rool, Little Mac, Isaac, and Palutena, and would not want Mewtwo and Roy back?

There is only a few characters this time there exists a strong (or popular) demand for. Elsewhere, Sakurai will have to use his own judgments.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Well my stance is usually to support the unknowns or not so popular characters so they have a chance. The poll just tells us who people have heard of/like. Who is to say that Mona couldn't be the most popular fighter in the next Smash if she is included. If we were to only take the poll results into account we would never know. Most importantly people would never be introduced to some of these characters i.e. Roy if we only went for those who people know.

I'm not saying there isn't room for popular inclusions but I'd hate to see a cool character dismissed just because their game is more obscure.
 

Snakey

Member
I'm not saying there isn't room for popular inclusions but I'd hate to see a cool character dismissed just because their game is more obscure.

Well I used the example of Bandana Dee. He would bring a spear and be quite an interesting character, yet most people seem sour on the idea (despite the game he had a major role in being extremely well-received and still has legs in Japan). I am sure there will be a few surprise picks, but they will be characters that also make sense (ie. not a character from some random game that came out back in 2005).

As I said before, there is only a few characters that are really wanted this time for Smash Bros.
 
To be honest, this is the one game for which I hope the devs don't listen to the fans. Only 1 or 2 of the characters on the list seem interesting to me at all, and I'd rather be surprised with off-the-wall choices than popular "safe" picks.

Oh, and for the record; Mewtwo isn't the Legendary mascot nor is he the most popular Legendary. Both of those titles go to Mew, who's been the star of two theatrical movies and a made-for-TV movie, as well as playing a minor role in a few more and some anime episodes. It also won the recent Legendary popularity contest on Pokémon.com, so I'd say the public has spoken as to who's the "mascot Legendary."
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
To be honest, this is the one game for which I hope the devs don't listen to the fans. Only 1 or 2 of the characters on the list seem interesting to me at all, and I'd rather be surprised with off-the-wall choices than popular "safe" picks.

Agreed. I honestly prefer off the wall characters. With that said, it's primarily because Smash already got a bulk of popular characters.
 
Agreed. I honestly prefer off the wall characters. With that said, it's primarily because Smash already got a bulk of popular characters.

My thoughts exactly. At this point, I'd actually be really disappointed if they add Roy and Mewtwo back in lieu of creating new, original characters. I'm still pining for some Nintendo rhythm game reps, so bring on Agent J and Karate Joe!
 

Snakey

Member
My thoughts exactly. At this point, I'd actually be really disappointed if they add Roy and Mewtwo back in lieu of creating new, original characters. I'm still pining for some Nintendo rhythm game reps, so bring on Agent J and Karate Joe!

Yes, because two characters that have already been in Smash Bros. will obviously mean we won't get any other possible newcomers. Nevermind that they would probably take less time and resources than full on "true newcomers".

Honestly, it seems as though the people with the most bizarre opinions on Smash Bros. are the loudest.
 
Yes, because two characters that have already been in Smash Bros. will obviously mean we won't get any other possible newcomers. Nevermind that they would probably take less time and resources than full on "true newcomers".

You seem to have a knack for misinterpreting statements. I didn't say we'll see no newcomers, but that I'll be disappointed if they make it in over possible original characters.

Honestly, it seems as though the people with the most bizarre opinions on Smash Bros. are the loudest.

Wow, and I thought I could be condescending at times.
 

Snakey

Member
You seem to have a knack for misinterpreting statements. I didn't say we'll see no newcomers, but that I'll be disappointed if they make it in over possible original characters.

No, you are misinterpreting my statement. You seem to be under the belief that if Mewtwo and Roy get in, they will be keeping other characters out. Don't you think its possible that we could get Mewtwo and Roy back as well as get those obscure characters you want?
 

Mr. Fix

Member
I'm still iffy on Roy unless they completely change his moveset. Marth and Chrom should suffice for FE reps with Ike following after.
 

Snakey

Member
I'm still iffy on Roy unless they completely change his moveset. Marth and Chrom should suffice for FE reps with Ike following after.

Roy is fine if they luigify him a bit. He was probably going to be changed up like how Falco was for Brawl. Making an unique Final Smash and unique specials (give Eruption to Roy, while also giving him a special based off the Sword of Seal's ability to shoot fire, and another special based off its ability to heal) should be very feasible as well.

Also, Chrom is likely going to end up as some sort of Ike clone, regardless we are going to "clone" FE characters in Smash 4 regardless. I think Chrom faces the bigger hurdle in the struggle to be unique than Roy because people already loved Roy despite him being a clone, whereas with Chrom, there will be bigger expectations for him to a more unique character since he has not yet appeared in Smash Bros. as well as the skepticism surrounding him due to his similarities to Ike.
 

Mr. Fix

Member
Also, Chrom is likely going to end up as some sort of Ike clone,

This is next to impossible to tell. It's also as likely that he'll get a completely unique moveset. Hell, he may not even be a heavy character. The dude has a shield. It's a safer bet than Roy being unique anyway.
 

Snakey

Member
This is next to impossible to tell. It's also as likely that he'll get a completely unique moveset. Hell, he may not even be a heavy character. The dude has a shield. It's a safer bet than Roy being unique anyway.

Marth has/had a shield too. Also, there is no guarantee that he will be a completely unique character (I don't see how its just as likely he will be completely unique, I think your fandom of FE13 is clouding your judgment a bit). I played FE13 thoroughly, and there was nothing really about him that made him stand out relative to other lords. He could have a special based of the Master Lords ability to use lances though, however, considering Sakurai did not give Ike an axe-special I am holding my breath.

I am curious though, if Chrom did end up being based off of Ike, I wonder how he would be received as a newcomer (especially when factoring in his aesthethic similarities to Ike).
 

Mr. Fix

Member
Marth has/had a shield too. Also, there is no guarantee that he will be a completely unique character (I don't see how its just as likely he will be completely unique, I think your fandom of FE13 is clouding your judgment a bit). I played FE13 thoroughly, and there was nothing really about him that made him stand out relative to other lords. He could have a special based of the Master Lords ability to use lances though, however, considering Sakurai did not give Ike an axe-special I am holding my breath.

I am curious though, if Chrom did end up being based off of Ike, I wonder how he would be received as a newcomer (especially when factoring in his aesthethic similarities to Ike).

Well that's news to me. Not that I'd mind either way, but Marth + the new FE rep should be fine to keep up with the tradition. Roy is the cherry on top, unless Sakurai actually does make Chrom different from Ike, in which case I'd be for Team Ike.
 

Snakey

Member
Well that's news to me.

FE3 (and FE12 which was a remake of FE3's Book 2) had the Shield of Seals as a major plotpoint. Marth eventually ends up using it.

Regardless, I expect Sakurai to talk about whether there will be any cuts from Brawl's roster (as well as possibly cut characters from Melee returning) a short while after the E3 2013 unveil, where Sakurai will finally be open about his plans and aim for Smash 4. I am crossing my fingers for no cuts, but who knows.
 

Village

Member
In all honestly i would take this guy over mewtwo anyday

mball03_070717a.jpg
 
That reminds me, I haven't seen Deoxys in Brawl for like ever. The rare Pokemon are way too rare in Brawl.

hidden12.jpg

Playing Brawl recently and I was thinking, did anybody stop to think about how strange Wolf is in relative comparison to the rest of the cast? Like, it seems almost like he's unfinished and not completely thought out, but maybe it's just me.

He shares at least three normal move animations with three other characters but not really in the same moveslots--his down aerial is identical to Diddy's, his dash attack is identical to Fox and Falco's up-smash, and his up-smash is identical to Sonic's up-aerial.

Regarding his up-smash and Sonic's up-aerial, it's kind of hard to say who had what first, but just based on how strange Wolf's up-smash looks (he just kind of hovers instantaneously a few inches off the ground), it looks to me like it was created as an aerial. At least, to me. If you watch it in slow motion in training his head kind of glitches during it too.

His dash attack using another character's smash attack animation is weird in and of itself, but so far as I can remember it's the only dash attack that completely cancels the character's momentum. Also, just kind of bizarre looking--the other characters tend to do some sort of move where they throw their momentum into something, but Wolf just up and does a flip kick.

Wolf's neutral stance is weird and unnatural looking, in my opinion, in comparison to the rest of the cast, holding his body really low to the ground. When he resets to neutral position from a run or a duck he does this odd little dance to reset to his neutral standing animation, even though he resets to his low stance first off. His crouch makes it really look like he should be able to crawl, like it was designed to be a neutral crawling position, but he just... can't. He also shares Fox's losing animation, did you know that? Just noticed that the past day or so.

His side tilt has this strange ultra hitlag on it that doesn't really make any sense in comparison to the rest of the cast. His side special is also really glitchy and doesn't like to grab ledges very well (and can actually be used to phase through ledges, very strange). Like the sweetspotting coding just isn't complete or something. His forward smash is pretty strange looking, but this is pretty subjective on my part. Very unique, but still pretty strange. He's also the third Landmaster user which just seems excessive and reeks of last minute inputting--Falco reusing Fox's Final Smash seems like a concession to time constraints (like Ness/Lucas and Link/Toon Link); Wolf reusing it as well just seems like a "whatever, just throw it in" moment.

And then there's the fact that he's one of the last three characters to be unlocked and is completely absent from the SSE and honestly, he feels like the stranger omission compared to the characterless balloon Pokemon and the second version of another character. Unlocked via VS matches he's the last, and he seems like an odd character to make the final unlock--in comparison to Ness (from the first) and Game & Watch (from Melee), a third Star Fox character seems like a bizarre final prize.

This part is more my opinion than anything else, but he also feels more... unnecessary than the other characters. Like, in comparison to most of the newcomers added in Brawl, at least. It's also worth mentioning in the last co-op Event match (the all-star fight) Wolf is the last character, even after Sonic and Snake.

In many ways to me he really does feel like this bonus extra character that not an entirely large amount of thought went into--an extra little bone to throw to the people who liked playing as the Star Fox characters in previous Smashes (who I think are pretty popular among Smash players in Japan, though I may be wrong). I mean, his late addition does seem to be the consensus based on the internal data, but I think it shows within the game itself. What say you?
 

Ryce

Member
Playing Brawl recently and I was thinking, did anybody stop to think about how strange Wolf is in relative comparison to the rest of the cast? Like, it seems almost like he's unfinished and not completely thought out, but maybe it's just me.

He shares at least three normal move animations with three other characters but not really in the same moveslots--his down aerial is identical to Diddy's, his dash attack is identical to Fox and Falco's up-smash, and his up-smash is identical to Sonic's up-aerial.
You made me paranoid, so I just fired up Dolphin with a bunch of speed/freeze frame hacks, and Wolf doesn't share are of those animations. They're similar, yes, but they're not the same. It's very apparent when you look at them side by side. With a cast of 39 characters, there are bound to be some similarities. It's a fighting game, after all, and there's only so much that can be done in combat. It's just a coincidence.

Wolf was obviously a last minute addition, but I don't think his move set was rushed. He's just as "fleshed out" as the rest of the cast. At the very least, he's comparable in design scope to Lucas.
 
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