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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
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No one commented on this post, probably since I posted it at the bottom of the previous page, so I am just going to post it here.
One thing I find strange is that Little Mac has a ton of support (he is virtually tied with K. Rool on Shorts's poll), yet very little vocal support.
The other thing is Palutena. She pretty much shows how much popularity a female character can get even if all the stars align for them. I mean even if the diminished newcomer pool that Smash 4 has, she is overall the seventh most-wanted character for it.
By all the stars aligning I mean:
- Has had a recent game.
- Is largely deemed sexually attractive.
- Undoubtedly very important to her own series.
- Does not have a male counterpart that is seen as a higher priority than her within her own series.
- Is largely seen as bringing something completely different to the table in terms of moveset.
- Not divisive.
Especially in Palutena's case, she has had her game developed by Sakurai, so he is already personally aware of the character.
I mean with all of that Palutena still ranks at number 7 despite her being practically the picture perfect female newcomer. Though to be fair to her, she pretty much has more support than any other "new" character (though technically Palutena was created in 1987, she is basically a new character in terms of support due to her re-design and her vastly fleshed out personality from Uprising, and how basically nearly all of her support grew out from 2012).
Thinking about it all in general, the "wee need moar femalez" crowd is pretty much just a very loud minority, considering that aside from Palutena, the only other female characters with a large amount of support are Krystal and Dixie Kong, and even those two characters are miles behind Palutena (and a lot of other characters in general).
The "moar femalez" crowd usually does not bring up Dixie Kong (and sometimes not Krystal), but instead characters like Captain Syrup, Mona, Ashley or some sort of female FE character (support is divided for who it should be), and all those characters have far less support than even Dixie Kong (who has less support than Krystal, who has far less support than Palutena).
I just think its funny how depending on how loud people are you would think there exists far more numbers for them than there actually are, or depending on how quiet a character's support base is, their numbers can be vastly underestimated (see Little Mac).
One thing I find strange is that Little Mac has a ton of support (he is virtually tied with K. Rool on Shorts's poll), yet very little vocal support.
The other thing is Palutena. She pretty much shows how much popularity a female character can get even if all the stars align for them. I mean even if the diminished newcomer pool that Smash 4 has, she is overall the seventh most-wanted character for it.
By all the stars aligning I mean:
- Has had a recent game.
- Is largely deemed sexually attractive.
- Undoubtedly very important to her own series.
- Does not have a male counterpart that is seen as a higher priority than her within her own series.
- Is largely seen as bringing something completely different to the table in terms of moveset.
- Not divisive.
Especially in Palutena's case, she has had her game developed by Sakurai, so he is already personally aware of the character.
I mean with all of that Palutena still ranks at number 7 despite her being practically the picture perfect female newcomer. Though to be fair to her, she pretty much has more support than any other "new" character (though technically Palutena was created in 1987, she is basically a new character in terms of support due to her re-design and her vastly fleshed out personality from Uprising, and how basically nearly all of her support grew out from 2012).
Thinking about it all in general, the "wee need moar femalez" crowd is pretty much just a very loud minority, considering that aside from Palutena, the only other female characters with a large amount of support are Krystal and Dixie Kong, and even those two characters are miles behind Palutena (and a lot of other characters in general).
The "moar femalez" crowd usually does not bring up Dixie Kong (and sometimes not Krystal), but instead characters like Captain Syrup, Mona, Ashley or some sort of female FE character (support is divided for who it should be), and all those characters have far less support than even Dixie Kong (who has less support than Krystal, who has far less support than Palutena).
I just think its funny how depending on how loud people are you would think there exists far more numbers for them than there actually are, or depending on how quiet a character's support base is, their numbers can be vastly underestimated (see Little Mac).
What response are you after? I don't know why people would care about whether a character is male, female or otherwise, this isn't a game where the characters have to be made up and can therefore just as easily be male or female, the Smash Bros cast is made of established characters of which there are a huge number more notable male characters than female ones. Palutena would be a good character, but the reasons for which are not dependent on if she is or isn't female.
9 characters: Nintendo only addition -
- Tingle
- Toad (in a Mario Kart)
- Jill (Drill Dozer)
- Dillon
- Little Mac
- Ridley
- Waluigi
- Emperess Bulblax
- The guy from Fossil Hunters riding a big fucking T-Rex
Including non-Nintendo characters:
- Megaman
- Pacman
- Viewtiful Joe
- Alex Kidd
- Simon Belmont
- Banjo Kazooie
- Crash Bandicoot
- Master Chief
- still Waluigi
9 characters: Nintendo only addition -
- Tingle
- Toad (in a Mario Kart)
- Jill (Drill Dozer)
- Dillon
- Little Mac
- Ridley
- Waluigi
- Emperess Bulblax
- The guy from Fossil Hunters riding a big fucking T-Rex
Including non-Nintendo characters:
- Megaman
- Pacman
- Viewtiful Joe
- Alex Kidd
- Simon Belmont
- Banjo Kazooie
- Crash Bandicoot
- Master Chief
- still Waluigi
I agree that Palutena is a great choice regardless of her gender (perhaps the only good female newcomer choice).
However, the point of that post was talking about how vocality and loudness within the Smash Bros. fanbase create a picture that is unlike what the rest of the actual fanbase is interested in.
I mean just look at Geno. He probably has among the loudest fanbases out there, yet there are several Mario characters in which there is a higher demand than for him. I mentioned female characters in that post because many possible female newcomers end up having fanbases with supporters that are very vocal and loud in regards to their inclusion, yet the actual size of their fanbases relative to other characters for Smash 4 (with the exception of Palutena, and possibly Krystal and Dixie Kong), is actually quite small.
Oh, for sure. But this is basically true for everything, is it not? Certain groups of people will always be more vocal than other groups, particularly if they are in a 'minority', self-perceived or otherwise. The Geno group, for example, is most likely tiny - why wouldn't it be? Its a group of people that support a one-off character from a 20 year old Mario game that wasn't even released worldwide being recognised as an 'all star' character - and because they likely know they are in the minority, they have to be 'loud' to make their voices heard. Then, because that small group has been so 'loud', it creates the appearance that it is actually the majority, so those that don't want him in feel they themselves are the minority, and feel they need to be the 'loudest', and a basic screaming match starts.
Ideally Sakurai would be looking at such a wide variety of sources (not just various internet message boards) and will be able to work out who is really wanted and who is just a few people getting loud. Or, actually, even more ideally, hopefully Sakurai will just do what he wants, because all the ideas it appears that the majority of the crowd want are pretty damn boring.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
False. Mew is both more popular and more iconic.
I think that there are better choices for both, like StarTropics' Mike Jones and Samurai Goroh.
You seem to be quite passionate about this series and that's great, but your arguments would be a lot stronger if you didn't treat your opinions as infallible facts.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
"Choose your top 9 dream characters you personally want in SSB4!"
"NO YOU CHOSE THE WRONG CHARACTERS"
"NO YOU CHOSE THE WRONG CHARACTERS"
You're wrong on Mew. Put up a poll anywhere about which Pokemon they like more, and Mewtwo will come out on top. Heck, put up a poll anywhere about who their favorite Pokemon is, and Mewtwo is guaranteed to be in the Top 5 results for it.
As for Takamaru...
vs. Mike Jones:
- Mike Jones has not made any more games appearances since 1994, and his games have not been released in Japan.
- Takamaru has had a slew of game references since Pikmin 2, and has made cameos in multiple games after Brawl's release such as Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors 3 (where an entire mode of the game was based off of Nazo no Murasame), and having an attraction in Nintendo Land, a pack-in game for the Wii U, entitled, "Takamaru's Ninja Castle".
- Takamaru continues to be referenced nowadays and has had exposure internationally through Samurai Warriors 3 and Nintendo Land, whereas Mike Jones dropped off of the face of the earth after 1994 (StarTropics has absolutely no content in Brawl) and the Japanese audience has had no exposure to the character.
- Kamiya has expressed interest in doing a new Nazo no Murasame game, and a playable appearance in Smash 4 could provide an impetus for him to actually do it.
vs. Samurai Goroh:
- F-Zero has not had a game since 2004.
- Far more interest in Takamaru than Samurai Goroh by Smash Bros. fans.
Lastly, while the statements I had about Takamaru are opinions (though they are very, very sound), what I said about Mewtwo is likely fact. You just sound bitter that what I have to say runs contrary to your own personal opinions.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I disagree on the Mewtwo thing - since again, those are just based on online polls, and we all know how shit those are.
So what's your source that Mew is more popular than Mewtwo?
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Sorry to disappoint you sir, but Mew won the official Pokémon Power Bracket contest on Pokémon.com, and Mewtwo was beaten out by Rayquaza. Plus, Mewtwo has only appeared in one (soon to be two) theatrical movies and a made-for-TV movie, whereas Mew has been involved in three as well as a TV movie and several episodes of the anime. Mew is also more prevalent in marketing as well as being the most well-known urban legend in Pokémon-dom. Mewtwo also isn't as popular to the games' and anime's target demographic, and most of his popularity comes from older and one-time (people who only played the first games) fans.
Don't test my Poké-knowledge, sir. It is not a battle you will win.
Don't test my Poké-knowledge, sir. It is not a battle you will win.
So pretty much your source is one poll, and various anime appearances. Tch.
This was a massive poll online, and Mewtwo got the number two spot:
http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon/2
I know in the past you have said you do not want Mewtwo to return so I think you have a bias at play here.
This was a massive poll online, and Mewtwo got the number two spot:
http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon/2
I know in the past you have said you do not want Mewtwo to return so I think you have a bias at play here.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah no, using IGN is just using Kotaku for Pokemon reference.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
The problem with that poll is that it's inudated by genwunners and those with an irrational hate for the newer games, as well as those who probably haven't ever played the games but still vote for Mewtwo and Charizard because they're "cool."
An official poll holds more stock; especially when it only involves Legendaries.
The anime appearences thing was arguing Mew's icon-status, not its popularity. If Mewtwo was more iconic, why would they use Mew over it time and time again?
I won't deny that I don't like Mewtwo too much, but bias plays no part in these facts.
An official poll holds more stock; especially when it only involves Legendaries.
The anime appearences thing was arguing Mew's icon-status, not its popularity. If Mewtwo was more iconic, why would they use Mew over it time and time again?
I won't deny that I don't like Mewtwo too much, but bias plays no part in these facts.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
On a related note I am not saying Mewtwo won't return, since he was planned, but that's merely because of his "returning" status.
It seems as though whenever something is presented that runs contrary to whatever someone believes they rather just deny it than offer something else on their side.
I will play devil's advocate and say that Mew is more popular than Mewtwo. However, even if it were that the case, Mewtwo is still by far the most wanted Pokemon for Smash 4 (and one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4 in general).
I don't even know why you two are picking a fight with me on this aside from you guys having a beef with Mewtwo. I think there is no denying that Mewtwo is among the most popular and iconic Pokemon regardless of what you two would like to believe.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Like I said I'm not arguing Mewtwo's non-existence, but I am simply saying that he was a cut character who was supposed to be in Brawl, thus him returning would make sense. It's much more objective than "polls".
And yes, relying simply on polls like in IGN or Kotaku is a terrible practice - no different from believing online polls and such.
Okay.
However, I seem to remember when I cited some official polls in regards to Fire Emblem (where Roy got first place in the official poll for FE6 and first place for an official cumalative poll for the entire GBA FE trilogy, and Lyn was only in sixth place for the official FE7 poll), there were a few people here who wet the bed about those results.
The Pokemon fanbase is very large, so I could accept Mew being more popular than Mewtwo. However, within the context of Smash Bros., at the very least Mewtwo is by far the most popular Pokemon "newcomer" choice for Smash 4.
Leaf/Ghost type?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Street/Grass?!
Shadow Hog
Member
I wonder what a Street type Pokémon would be like.
Real list/expectations time:
1. Shulk
2. MGS1 Snake(instead of the BB/MGS2 Snake fusion thing we got in Brawl)
3. Megaman
4. Chrom
5. Palutena
Ridley, Mewtwo, and Ike would be great, even though I'm not really expecting them all to be in it at launch. I just hope they give them priority or even put up a fan poll for DLC.
1. Shulk
2. MGS1 Snake(instead of the BB/MGS2 Snake fusion thing we got in Brawl)
3. Megaman
4. Chrom
5. Palutena
Ridley, Mewtwo, and Ike would be great, even though I'm not really expecting them all to be in it at launch. I just hope they give them priority or even put up a fan poll for DLC.
Black-Wind
Member
The reason Mewtwo doesn't just pop up in the anime is because there's only one Mewtwo and he has a very carefully crafted story around him. Mew is just acute looking, non-character having powerful pokemon with no real back story or anything. THAT'S why it's "been" in blaah blah movies but never starred in any and only played support to other Pokemon ... it doesn't really have or need a character. Mewtwo's getting a 2nd movie likely because not only was his movie and story massively popular but also because they have an opportunity to build off of his story and wrap it up with Genesect seeing as they're both alike in origin to some level. (Or maybe they just wanted to give him a gen 6 form, who knows)
Oh, and yeah ... like I have been saying for some time here polls are complete cow-pies. Good to see others point this out. Not sure why so many give such power to these random online polls. What online smash fans want=/=what series fans want ... what Pokemon fans want on a T-shirt =/= what they want for smash.
All that poll really proves to me is that a large portion of Pokemon fans like small, cute Pokemon which goes completely forgotten in Smash threads. It's the reason I could see Sylveon being the one to replace Lucario if it's the Pokemon they want to lead the promotional wave with.
Regarding the popularity of Mewtwo/Mew... Mew did win the Pokémon Power Bracket awhile back, beating Mewtwo.
http://www.pokemon.com/powerbracket/us/
Though I think they're both very popular, and different polls will have varying results, of course. Mewtwo is definitely the most popular Legendary Pokémon that's actually viable as a playable character in Smash Bros., though.
http://www.pokemon.com/powerbracket/us/
Though I think they're both very popular, and different polls will have varying results, of course. Mewtwo is definitely the most popular Legendary Pokémon that's actually viable as a playable character in Smash Bros., though.
Assuming that Rare never left Nintendo-
1. Banjo-Kazooie (would have been in Brawl already)
2. Joanna Dark
3. Mumbo Jumbo
4. Gruntilda
5. If Viva Pinata became My Garden during it's Gamecube days, then Horstachio.
6. Megaman
7. K. Rool
8. Mewtwo (pls sakurai)
9. and Groose, because he's the fucking Grooseinator.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Shadow Hog
Member
Some how, I was envisioning a gangsta Pokémon, but I suppose that works too
astarisborn94
Member
Completely disregarding logic, my Top 9 most wanted characters:
1. Rock Man
2. Mewtwo
3. King K. Rool
4. Deoxys
5. Ray (Custom Robo)
6. Roy
7. Dixie Kong
8. Isaac
9. Paper Mario
1. Rock Man
2. Mewtwo
3. King K. Rool
4. Deoxys
5. Ray (Custom Robo)
6. Roy
7. Dixie Kong
8. Isaac
9. Paper Mario
Professor Beef
Banned
?
That's a wanksta.
lmao. Aw man. I love all you guys. lol.
From the beginning of our Smash 4 speculation, I think most of us felt like Palutena is one of the few characters who are closest to a sure thing. Medusa has been the one has fell off, imo. Palutena has a lot going for her and you're right, she's not divisive so I think we all can see her potential in the Smash arena.
On the topic of Lil Mac, I think fans have been asking for him since Brawl and there is not much to add to his argument. It's too the point where we just want him in. Imo, Ridley gets more vocal support because there might be a little fear of not seeing him because of Sakurai's comments about his size. And because he is very significant to the Metroid franchise and one of the remaining important Nintendo characters. Takamaru imo is relatively quiet but Nintendo has using the IP in different ways so at least we know he's not forgetten compared to Star Tropics.
On female newcomers, there is a lot of division between what people want because the possibility of actually seeing any of those characters included is not high. There's no central figure other than Palutena who has the best shot. I don't think we're very vocal but compared to the stagnant, repetitive choices we have always seen in all the speculation some ideas/characters will stick out from fanbase to fanbase. Sakurai also has said he wanted more female reps from Brawls Dojo so maybe he still has that mindset....by only adding Palutena lol. Nintendo has predominately male stars and thats fine but diversity never hurts especially when Skaurai has all of nintendo's history to pull from.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Is Pokemon Cycle gonna affect Smash Cycle?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Probably.
When it comes to Palutena, I think we all know she's definitely going to be in the game in some form, but I really doubt that she's going to be a playable character. I think I'd prefer her to appear in a series of secret taunts for Pit, much like the Star Fox and Snake ones in Brawl. How awesome would it be to have Pit and Palutena banter back and forth during a battle, just like in Uprising? And they could throw in other characters like Viridi, Hades, etc. as well. Like, seriously, this NEEDS to happen! D: lol
Green Mamba
Member
She could be both playable and appear in Pit's Smash Taunts--Falco and Wolf both appear in Fox's (and Fox appears in their's).
I think it Has always been the case. Lol. I try to stay out of it since I don't know enough about it other than its still pretty fun to play. But Chespin needs to be in this game in some form. I already love that guy. If not oh well ill get to use him when I play the game
Bingo. We can have both.
...That completely slipped my mind, lol.
Either way, I'm still not so sure that she'll be included as a playable character. I mean, there are bigger franchises that don't have more than a single character (F-Zero, for example). With only three games, I'm not so sure Kid Icarus is going to get a second character, even with Sakurai having developed the last game.
...Then again, you could make the argument that EarthBound/MOTHER only has three games yet it has two characters. Who knows. I think it makes more sense in MOTHER's case because each game stars different characters. Kid Icarus features the same main character throughout all three games.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see her as a character. Palutena is awesome. They could definitely make her work as a character...but the question is would they? She's never actually been playable before, and all characters in Smash Bros. have been playable in some form except Sheik and Ganondorf, I believe. She seems more of a support character than anything else. Though she is the titular character of the series in Japan...
It could go either way, really. I'm interested to see how they'll handle the Kid Icarus franchise in the next Smash Bros. It's definitely going to get more representation in some way.
Black-Wind
Member
I get what you're saying and for the most part I agree.
KI is series of only 3 games (2 were retro enough to get Pitt into Brawl and the last one is 20+ years after those old games and was ok-to-successful afaik) yet somehow it should get at least 2 smash reps where as people aren't even sure a long standing series like FE can get pass the 2 character mark without Roy's return?
However, I do feel that KI will get a 2nd character (who it will be, IDK). And I'm OK with that ... so long as rep is properly divided with other currently popular BIGGER series. For example, I have said it many times before but yeah ... I can't see why KI would get more characters than Wario. Wario is a much bigger and well known series that has a TON of games and many success stories sooo yeah, I think it warrants 2 or 3 characters to rep it in smash (Mona or Cap. Either could be an interesting character and both rep different sides of the series).
Same for FE, it's proving to be a hit state side with the more recent games and I think it deserves 4 characters given the context of it's game (I would greatly prefer them NOT to simply be 3 blue haired sword guys and Semi-Clone Roy. The series has so much to offer that it's to see it wasted).
In the end, it's up to Sakurai's crazy self to decide it all but like Snakey noted she has a lot going for her and she is probably at the height of her popularity. Iirc, Sakurai said he will not be working on the KI series for awhile if not at all so it would be a perfect chance for him to include more characters from the series to keep it relevant for years to come. I will be shocked if she's not a playable character personally.
I totally agree with your FE and Wario opinion every time you say it lol. They really deserve it , Wario is getting Game and Wario for the WiiU and as we know FE has Awakening. They're consistent franchises and already have games on Nintendo's latest hardware.
I totally agree with your FE and Wario opinion every time you say it lol. They really deserve it , Wario is getting Game and Wario for the WiiU and as we know FE has Awakening. They're consistent franchises and already have games on Nintendo's latest hardware.
Choppasmith
Member
I just hope Lightning Battle gets in as a stage theme.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Clearly it should be Frederick. His Final Smash should involve forcing his opponents to see Chrom's naked poster.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I wamt floating polygonal head Iwata in smash.
That in the center, plus Master and Crazy Hand would be ace.
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