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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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Shorts

Neo Member
The entirety of Brawl's design seemed to be based around weaker/new players.

Well I mean, at least we have Namco to, at the very least, balance the game. So let's say it somehow ended up being as casual as Brawl, at least it will be BALANCED and casual.

Also, I would like to note that Sakurai said he isn't going to be starting the game from Brawl, and evolving it into Smash 4, he's building it from the ground up. He actually said that prior to even starting Smash. Sakurai did not enjoy the sheer weakness of the Wii. He wanted patches (Or so he made it sound) and he definitely didn't like how online turned out. This is the system Smash has been waiting for since Melee.
 

McNum

Member
Top 5 best special moves.

Top 5 worst special moves.

Go.
Best:
1. Falcon PUNCH!! (Captain Falcon)
2. Aether (Ike)
3. Reflector (Fox)
4. Din's Fire (Zelda)
5. PK Fire (Lucas)

Worst:
1. Chain (Shiek)
2. Sing (Jigglypuff)
3. PK Freeze (Lucas)
4. PK Flash (Ness)
5. Gale Boomerang (Link)

Falcon Punch is THE signature move of Smash in my opinion. It's stupid, it's over the top, and it's awesome. Say it with me: "Falcon... PUNCH!!" Aether is a recovery move with super armor. Can't hate on that. And Din's Fire is a fantastic harassment move at range. And I just like the snappiness of Lucas's PK Fire. Good for spacing and just for being annoying. I don't think I need to explain Fox's Reflector here. Its power and uses are well known.

For worst, well, does anyone know what to do with Shiek's chain? Sing is there because it wears off faster than Jigglypuff recovers, and the two PKs are so slow you'd barely be able to use them in a fight. Flash packs one heck of a punch, though, but it's still unwieldy. The Gale Boomerang is just so... meh. Especially compared to Toon Link's Boomerang.
 
I haven't put much thought into this, as I never really got a feel for all the characters and their moves, but

Top 5 best special moves.
Falcon Punch (could it be anything else?)
Sonic's spring (dat height :O)
Kirby's Down-B (fun to spam on lesser players)
Rest (seemingly useless move that turns out to be ridiculously good)
DK's ground pound (very useful in 100 Man Mêlée, as I recall)

Top 5 worst special moves.
FLUDD (Tornado spin is so much better :U)
PK Flash (never really found a good time to use it, compared to Ness's other moves, as it's really really slow)
Ganondorf's Side-B (used to be so useful since I could knock characters up into the sky with ease, but that changed in Brawl :I)
Anything Pichu has (Let's hurt ourselves! Yay. There was some kind of tradeoff here, obviously, but it never seemed apparent to me; never seemed better than Pikachu's equivalent.)
Yoshi's egg throw (I want a recovery move, and this hardly qualifies :()

I'm tempted to include Marth's side-B, but that's probably more because I never bothered to study its effects; I hear it's pretty complicated, but very useful once you understand it. I'm not a big Marth fan, though...
 

McNum

Member
Oh, right. FLUDD. Forgot about that one.

Marth's Side-B (Sword Dance?) is not the greatest offensive move, but is has a unique property that makes it fantastic for recovery. It cancels vertical momentum. If you're off the stage and spam just the first slash of Side-B, Marth will hold still in the air, letting you cover more horizontal space while falling that you would otherwise.
 
Top 5 best special moves.

1. Falcon Punch (All): It is THE Falcon Punch. The best and hammiest move in the entire series. Not to mention the update it got in Brawl where you can now turn your punch around.

2. Thunder (SSB,SSBB): Long scale vertical move that results in immediate star KOs if your opponent wanders off screen. It also makes a great edge-guarding tool since the lightning goes straight down with no signs of stopping if you don't hit any terrain with it

3. Rest (SSB, SSBM): Easily the best kill move in the game. At around 30-40%, your opponent starts backing off in fear of getting KO'd. Also amazing how Jigglypuff almost always wakes up to counterattack before the opponent gets back at you.

4. Shuttle Loop (SSBB): Meta Knight's second greatest move after Mach Tornado. But why his second best and the first one? Because of all the gimping potential. The knockback on this move is ridiculous even at low percentages. And if you know what you're doing, you can always knock them away from the stage with a well-timed Shuttle Loop.

5. Dancing Blade (SSBB): Massive utility. The last attack if you hold down can be used as a poke if your opponent if fond of shielding. The side version can be used as a GTFO move. And the up version is your launcher. It's also great for recovering if you use it just once.

Top 5 worst special moves.

1. Sing (All): Virtually useless. The amount of time your opponent is sleeping depends on his health which by the time you actually see any useful results, you should have probably used another move to just KO them.

2. FLUDD (SSBB): Just like Squirtle's Water Gun without the damage part. You would think that a move that pushes your opponent back would make a great edge-guarding tool. You'd be wrong. If anything, you have a move that's hard to aim and does not have the pushback needed to actually result in anything effective.

3. Gale Boomerang (SSBB): Weak move with wind mechanics. If you hit your opponent, they get knocked back a little. If you don't, the boomerang returns with a gust of wind blowing towards you. Makes for some interesting and funny situations. But if Link drags in a close-range fighter that he has no way of getting away from, you're going to be taking massive damage.

4. Chef (All): Seemingly random tosses. They got enough stun to stop an approaching opponent but the sausages and drumsticks usually don't go where you want them to be. You could try hitting them with the pan part, but if you're that close with G&W you could probably use a stronger and better move.

5. Disable (SSBM): Low range and only works if your opponent is looking at you. If you hit them in the air, it causes them to tumble (air tripping?). This can be reflected back at you by Fox and Falco, oddly enough. Please note that the stun duration works in the same way as Jigglypuff's Sing. So you got a move with low range and a .5 second stun.
 
Top 5 best special moves.

Top 5 worst special moves.

Go.


I'm going to go with favourites and least favourites myself, so actual move quality isn't always the reason why they're ranked as such.

Top 5

Giant Punch: To store such power in your very large ape hands, capable of being unleashed suddenly and brutally whenever you desire complete with super armour, it's the SSB equivalent of the RKO, which is to say it's the thing out of nowhere victories are made from. Also a stored charge strikes fear into opponents so you can get that edge as well.

Flame Choke: Potentially Suicidal Chokeslam to hell, or amazing throat explosion, either one is a winner.

Falcon Punch: Of course, add a 180 twist while striking in the air for maximum awesome levels to be breached. Obviously Warlock Punch is great by relation.

Bowser Bomb/Hip Drop: Pure "whomp" power, nothing like crushing your opponent under your backside.

Charge Beam/Shadow Ball: Similar moves in execution, the reliability and power of the charge beam is nice but I do like the unwieldy nature of Shadow Ball and how it knocks you back a bit when thrown.

Honourable mentions- Confusion: It sort of sucks but I just find it so fun to use for unknown reasons.

Egg Throw: It's just so oddly satisfying to pepper people with.

PK Thunder: But only if you hit yourself with it and blitz through your opponent like a bolt of human carnage. Pika's thunder follows closely behind but isn't as satisfying to nail.

Tons more, mainly more situational ones like when you foil a Starfox characters recovery move with Mario's Cape.

Bottom 5

Force Palm: There's no force in this palm, I expected a crumpling palm strike of destruction, instead I get the most minimal of impacts. Also I have to mention extreme speed, it's neither extreme nor speedy and for some reason deals no damage, very much unlike the moves origins, but it's at least meant for recovery so grumble grumble.

Sleep: It's a guilty pleasure of mine but most of the time even if you pull it off they wake up as you're still singing away, I can't overlook such things.

Rock Smash: Charizard is a great big fire dragon! awesome! yeah lets give him ROCK SMASH! that patented signature move of Charizard right there!

Sonic's side B thing: It's like a spindash except it's not quite a spindash, why is this move even here? surely something better could've been used?

Angel Ring: HIYAYAYAYAYA! Pit already has the rapid a strikes and a reflecting special move, I just always felt this one was a bit redundant really, hopefully one of his many new tools will take over this spot for SSB4.

Honourable mentions- Stone: Every beginner ever, uses Kirby, spams stone, is elated if it actually hits but are puzzled when its predictability keeps getting countered, regardless they never stop.

Rest: Oh sure it's powerful but i've been part of far too many matches where Jiggs users spend 80% of the time bobbing around your head trying to pull it off (and usually failing), and what the hell does sprouting a flower or exploding have to do with rest anyway, it's just so bizarre. Saved from being part of the bottom 5 by being satisfying to actually hit and that the people who miss it become open for a huge wallop.

And a bunch of spin related moves, can't think of a move to fill out the specials? then spin, spin away! Some I do quite like, such as how Link (before Brawl) DK and Bowser can use them well for clearing the area when surrounded but on the whole they just feel so uninteresting, like you couldn't think of something more inspired?
I can't wait for SSB4, newcomer Little Mac, spinning punches recovery! Takamaru, whirling blades! and so on...
 
Sonic's side B thing: It's like a spindash except it's not quite a spindash, why is this move even here? surely something better could've been used?
While I agree, it was pointed out in some Sonic FAQs I read that the idea is that your opponent won't know what to expect if you mix the <>-B Spin Dash and the v-B Spin Dash into your repertoire randomly. That said, I never found either Spin Dash particularly useful; I don't recall it doing that much damage, meaning it'd be more effective to dash into the fray and use A attacks instead.

Homing Attack is pretty blah too, thanks to the really long windup.
 
Angel Ring: HIYAYAYAYAYA! Pit already has the rapid a strikes and a reflecting special move, I just always felt this one was a bit redundant really, hopefully one of his many new tools will take over this spot for SSB4.

It's almost a certainty that this will be changed to a dashing normal attack to match Uprising. It's whether they're going to incorporate his other weapons that's really up in the air.

Speaking of Uprising (again) I just found out Viridi in Japanese is voiced by the same gal who already does Kirby and Ness (and Lyn), I wonder if this could be seen as better chances for her to be in the game somehow (playable character is a bit much to hope for, but I think this increases the odds of a new KI stage having Smash Taunts or maybe an assist trophy.
 
I won the UK smash tournament using just Kirby's stone attack.
We live in a country full of Stoners.

While I agree, it was pointed out in some Sonic FAQs I read that the idea is that your opponent won't know what to expect if you mix the <>-B Spin Dash and the v-B Spin Dash into your repertoire randomly. That said, I never found either Spin Dash particularly useful; I don't recall it doing that much damage, meaning it'd be more effective to dash into the fray and use A attacks instead.

Homing Attack is pretty blah too, thanks to the really long windup.
I'm pretty cool with the homing attack, too much faster and it would be a real bother or an annoyance at least but I like how it can be effective in both aiding your own recovery and also preventing others recovery.
The spin dash itself should have more impact than it does, I don't need rollout levels of knockback but something stronger would be nice.
I'm not even sure I understand the angle of the side B one, easier to control and jump out of but less damage and speed?

It's almost a certainty that this will be changed to a dashing normal attack to match Uprising. It's whether they're going to incorporate his other weapons that's really up in the air.
Oh yeah, running bow melee is pretty much Angel Ring, that would be a good placement for it.
 
I'm not even sure I understand the angle of the side B one, easier to control and jump out of but less damage and speed?
I think it's just that it shoots upward slightly instead of just going to the side, and that they're functionally identical otherwise? I'm sure some wiki proves me wrong, though.

Funny, I like using Sonic a lot, but I've never bothered to check the more intimate details of how he works.
 

Kjellson

Member
Ness' and Lucas' recovery moves suck. Right when you're about to fall to your death you have to shoot a lightning bolt, do a 360 and shoot yourself back. Shitty and stressful.

Stupid non-EU kids.
 

Azure J

Member
Top 5 best special moves.

5. Luigi's Fire Jump Punch (Smash 64)

The absolute most wicked sounding and surprise out of nowhere attack that was guaranteed the instant you "got it". This move was my childhood. I had to find every way to combo into it, use it raw, and KO steal with it.

4. Ganondorf's Flame Choke (Brawl)

Resets, resets, resets. Why couldn't Melee Ganondorf have this so I could really screw around with it? The animation is superb and ledge guarding with this puts the fear of God into people, especially if you're good with the spiking variation of it.

3. Pit - Palutena's Bow (Brawl)

Oh man... If that arrow's control were any looser, this would be the best zoning option in the series free. Setting off bombs behind my Brawl buddies back in the day was sublime.

2. FALCON PAAAAANCH

THE defacto Smash Bros. move. Nothing more to say.

1. Marth's Counter (origins in Melee, but I'm talking about Brawl's here)

Holy shit, when I found out they buffed so much about Marth in Brawl and then found out how they buffed this thing I was elated. This move is disgusting. Double the attack percentage and knock back of what was thrown at it? Stalls in the air/alters jump/momentum/trajectories? Frame one active? GGs cast. It was because of this move why I didn't get the rage over Metaknight for a long time. This is designed for those spammy types of players.

Honorable Mention: Peach's Butt Bomber (Melee).

Top 5 worst special moves.

5. Charizard's Rock Smash - Going to second everything Nocturnowl said here. The best part is this would have been an awesome Charizard vs. Magmar button (re: Seismic Toss) and Project M actually has a implementation of Seismic Toss that makes me wonder what happened here.

4. Sonic's Side B - Another spin dash? Why? Where's Flame Shield (Sonic 3)? Where's Light Speed Dash? This is just so boring.

3. Link's Gale Boomerang - This would have been a potential top 5 entry if it didn't have ass startup, needed a whole different way of tossing it to get the pull part of the special to work and didn't do that weird wtf style launch when tossed at someone close range. The idea is sound but the execution is just bad.

2. Samus' Charge Shot - It's funny that this is here when the Smash 64 variant could have actually made my top 10 normally. Just like with Samus herself though, since that game, they keep making this move slower and clunkier to use overall for no real explainable reason.

1. Jigglypuff's Sing - Thoroughly worthless in every incarnation.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Best?

1 - PK Thunder (Lucas) - THIS is what PK Thunder should have been
2 - Aura Sphere (Lucario) - generic chargeable projectile
3 - Reflector (Wolf) - best; sure it doesn't kill, but it the best of the three as far as defenses go
4 - Din's Fire (Zelda) - for trolling, and very reliable
5 - Stone (Kirby) - for trolling

Worst?

1 - Sing (Jigglypuff) - I love Jiggs but man this is a terrible move
2 - Boomerang (Link) - shitty version of old boomerang
3 - Sonic's moveset in general - LOLSPINNING IS ALL I DO
4 - Rock Smash (Charizard) - unreliable, though it provided laughs of Charizard "committing suicide" because he is trying to smash himself onto rocks
5 - Bombs (either Link) - they're generally kinda useless
 
Why all the hate on Rock Smash? Can't handle all the MANLY that comes from boulder-crushing? Chris Redfield can smash rocks with his fist, but Charizard does it with his head. His head. It like with crushing a can with your face but instead of a can it's a freaking boulder.

Sakurai was lucky to have found someone on GTS willing to trade a level 20 Charizard for his Mewtwo.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why all the hate on Rock Smash? Can't handle all the MANLY that comes from boulder-crushing? Chris Redfield can smash rocks with his fist, but Charizard does it with his head. His head. It like with crushing a can with your face but instead of a can it's a freaking boulder.

Sakurai was lucky to have found someone on GTS willing to trade a level 20 Charizard for his Mewtwo.

Two things. Rock and charizard don't mix lolololol

Also it's a slow, shitty move.
 

GamerSoul

Member
Best
1. Falcon Punch
2. Marth's Shield Breaker
3. Pikachu's Thunder
4. ZSSamus's Down Special
5. Ike's Side Special

Worst
1.2.3.4. Sonic's Special moves
5. Sing
 

qq more

Member
I guess I'm one of the few that actually didn't mind Sonic's moveset. Not saying this because I'm a Sonic fan but I did enjoy playing as him (and at the time Brawl was out, I was hating on the Sonic franchise when it was constantly releasing bad games).

But yeah, I think they should've given him some of the shield moves from Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Would be pretty neat I think.
 

GamerSoul

Member
I guess I'm one of the few that actually didn't mind Sonic's moveset. Not saying this because I'm a Sonic fan but I did enjoy playing as him (and at the time Brawl was out, I was hating on the Sonic franchise when it was constantly releasing bad games).

But yeah, I think they should've given him some of the shield moves from Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Would be pretty neat I think.

I did not have the patience for him lol. To me it's like trying to control a balloon in the wind. His floatiness and lack of kill moves ruined it for me.
 
Man is there nothing to talk about anymore?

???

Ketzal block for Smash!
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Your anthro Growlithe/Arcanine seems to have round breasts instead of pecs
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
It's the shading really and the pic not being zoomed in properly and oh god why are we talking about that
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
What if they include a God Mode where one player can control item spawn points and stage hazards with the GamePad?
 
Honestly, the more weird ass 5-player Upad modes we get, the better.

I think Smash is really well suited for the chaos a fifth player with asymetrical gameplay could cause.
 
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