Shadow Hog
Member
Honestly, when I envision polygonal Iwata, all I can see is the Brain Age guy (Prof. Kawashima, I think?).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
- Status
Gonzo The Great
Banned
1. Waluigi (Mario)
2. Tingle (Zelda)
3. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
4. Little Mac (Punch-Out)
5. Mega Man (Mega Man)
6. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
7. Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
8. Chrom (Fire Emblem)
9. Captain Syrup (Wario)
10. Shulk (Xenoblade)
Shadow Hog
Member
So when given the opportunity to choose the impossible, you stick entirely with the possible?
Well, okay, I suppose it'd be unbecoming of me to tell you how to think :V
(although 10 > 9)
Well, okay, I suppose it'd be unbecoming of me to tell you how to think :V
(although 10 > 9)
Individually yeah, but altogether seems too good to be true.
Professor Beef
Banned
"AS YOU KNOW, YOU LOSE A STOCK WHEN YOU FLY OFF-SCREEN" *attacks*
He also must laugh when you lose.
Nocturnowl
Member
astarisborn94
Member
For a Fire Emblem character, I'd personally would like to see Leaf in if Roy doesn't get in.
Leaf has the ability to become a Master Knight. Not only does he have a sword, but he also has magic and many other types of weapons in his diposal that would make a fantastic move set.
Leaf has the ability to become a Master Knight. Not only does he have a sword, but he also has magic and many other types of weapons in his diposal that would make a fantastic move set.
Palutena
Rosalina
Little Mac
Shulk
Phoenix Wright
Bayonetta
King K.Rool
Mega Man
Garrus Vakarian
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
There's no source for the interview. Where/when did he say this?
Neoriceisgood
Member
Tripping & Wavedashing should both be in.
You can only trip when you wavedash.
You can only trip when you wavedash.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
What if tripping is existent... but you're fully invincible during the tripping and such?
Here is another source for the comments.
Please note the first quote given by that Nintendo 3DS blog was not by Sakurai but someone sending him a letter.
Please note the first quote given by that Nintendo 3DS blog was not by Sakurai but someone sending him a letter.
astarisborn94
Member
I'd agree, but only with Diddy's banana. Any other form of tripping needs to go.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Wavedash tripping would be great.
Professor Beef
Banned
No it isn't.
I quite like the game being spontaneous. It's like jazz. Especially some of the neat stuff you could pull off with Snake.
Professor Beef
Banned
...And you think they're all still playing? That's so cute~
Professor Beef
Banned
I understand your point, as terrible as it is. You literally have no actual numbers to back up your claim that 99% of people don't know how to wavedash. You're only using hyperbole in order to sway people into backing up your argument against it because you don't like it. If you had come up with actual data to back up your claim instead of "THEY DON'T KNOW IT, SO THEY SHOULD SCRAP IT", then maybe I would actually give you some sort of respect. But instead, you've only made yourself look like a fool without a leg to stand on.
Professor Beef
Banned
I didn't bring up any evidence. So in a way, you're correct! I'm still waiting on some actual numbers from you, since you know how many people know how to wavedash, and all.
Karsticles
Member
And those people, entirely ignorant of the mechanic, still loved the hell out of the game. Thus, you can build the game to make the competitive scene happy, and the casuals will still be happy because they don't even know what they're doing.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know wave dashing is a technical move. It's not talked about in Melee itself, and isn't in the handbook when you get the game. Most people probably don't know how to do it, because most people who play Smash are casual. I'm sorry I don't have numbers for you. So go ahead and assume the already scrapped mechanic is a widely used one.
I was just saying it would be better IMO to actually implement some sort of canceling system to string combos together, like MvC3 or BB.
@Karsticles: You're right. I agree with you completely. Just not a fan of the mechanic itself.
I was just saying it would be better IMO to actually implement some sort of canceling system to string combos together, like MvC3 or BB.
@Karsticles: You're right. I agree with you completely. Just not a fan of the mechanic itself.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
PROFESSOR BEEF IS THE 1%
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'd use a buff Agumon avatar to salute beef-kun, but I can't find any. 
Does it matter? Many fans have enjoyed Smash for their own reasons. It doesn't matter HOW a person enjoys it. #Don'tHateAppreciate
How about instead of worrying about a move people can't even agree on whether it was an intentional or not, focus on the core moves that affect everyone. Would you be mad if they chose to change some characters' moves completely? It has been a long time since 1999 and some characters still have moves reflecting what they could back then rather than now.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm still mad they moved Mario's spin attack to air down+a.
Why did you mention a game with wavedashing in your argument for removing wavedashing?
I'd welcome it. The characters from the first game seem really basic compared to a lot of characters introduced later, especially the ones in Brawl with their crazy recoveries and normals that could be specials.
I would welcome going back to the drawing board with them. Don't just change for the sake of change, but really look at the way their games have evolved. Samus, for instance. Smash 64 - and Melee, for that matter - came before the Prime and Fusion revival. If they put her in for the first time in Brawl or Smash 4, I doubt she'd be very similar to her current incarnation at all.
Come on. They have the same name, but wavedashing in Melee is completely different from wavedashing in MvC3.
MvC3: Dash. Cancel dash by crouching. Dash again. This can be done as soon as you know it exists, and mastered in just a few minutes, if that.
Melee: Jump, then immediately press shield while pushing the stick in a specific and obscure direction - not one of the 8 primary directions, but somewhere between sideways and diagonally down. This is hard to do the first time, and even harder to get good enough that you can do it in real matches.
Wavedashing in Smash is dumb and unnecessarily complicated. It's exactly the kind of unnecessary barrier to entry Sakurai was trying to avoid with the game's simpler control scheme.
Shadow Hog
Member
I dunno, maybe embrace wavedashing and make it easier to pull off so that players more casual than those known to wavedash can get in on that action? I know I don't know how to do the move as-is, but it'd be interesting to see it more widespread and see how it impacts the game.
I'm thinking of Tribes and the whole "skiing" bug in the first game that the developer decided to design the subsequent entries around instead of fixing.
I'm thinking of Tribes and the whole "skiing" bug in the first game that the developer decided to design the subsequent entries around instead of fixing.
SenorArdilla
Member
But it's an advanced technique. Or glitch. The community still can't decide if it was intentional or not.
Shadow Hog
Member
I thought Sakurai said it was an unintentional glitch, and went out of his way to remove it in Brawl? I'd think his input would be much, much more important than that of "the community", who weren't the game's developers.
YMMV on whether removing it was beneficial or not, but I thought it was obviously not an intended feature.
YMMV on whether removing it was beneficial or not, but I thought it was obviously not an intended feature.
SenorArdilla
Member
It's clear from an interview a while back that they found out about it while Melee was still in development and just didn't bother to remove it. But neither did they advertise it.
Yus. Yus to all of this. Now, how would everyone feel about a fifth special being added? Assuming Namco fixes most of the useless specials / weaker specials a lot of characters have, like Jiggly's sing, and Zelda's crystal thing.
I've heard Brawl had L-Canceling in it at one point. I've also heard when people were beta testing it, at one point Mario was OP. Not sure if the latter is true or not, just something I've heard.
Professor Beef
Banned
Maybe it's because I'm used to tri-jumping in Marvel (because it's performed the same way as Melee wavedashing if you set dash to a button), but it's not dumb or complicated at all.
Funny thing is, I got better at Wavedashing playing Marvel. I hardly ever used it when I played Melee. Marth's buttons were too good already. :lol
Re: More specials
I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more Tilt B and Smash B attacks yet. I'm also convinced that the happy medium between Final Smashes and none of them is an EX A=B move. More powerful than anything else in the moveset but with lots more recovery. Also, none are guaranteed KOs from 0%.
Wavedashing either needed to be simplified or cut to fit with how easy pretty much everything else in Smash is to do. It's an execution barrier in a game priding itself in not having those. But that point became entirely moot when air-dodging became a momentum keeping spot-dodge instead of something you could aim. A change that I kind of like, but also one that makes being in the air a little too safe sometimes. But had it been in Brawl, it would probably have become semi-automatic like L-cancelling became the default recovery time on landing an air attack, removing the need to press L in the first place.
As for tripping, it could have potential if used properly. I'd say that when you hit over 100% damage, you should have a chance of tripping, but not before. Higher damage, bigger risk of tripping. It would encourage the losing party to lose faster, much like how Team Fortress 2 does it. Get the fight over with so a fresh stock can be sent in to use. Plus give the whole satisfaction of knocking the opponent so silly that he can barely stand. It would not be unlike stunning someone in Street Fighter, really. Your offense is forcing a disadvantageous state on the opponent so you can capitalize and do even more damage to a clearly outmatched foe.
And yeah, it's odd that A+B hasn't been used for anything. Would have been the best place for the Final Smash attacks, I'd think, instead of just B. You lose options with a final Smash store as it is in Brawl. And being superpowered should not be a disadvantage.
As for tripping, it could have potential if used properly. I'd say that when you hit over 100% damage, you should have a chance of tripping, but not before. Higher damage, bigger risk of tripping. It would encourage the losing party to lose faster, much like how Team Fortress 2 does it. Get the fight over with so a fresh stock can be sent in to use. Plus give the whole satisfaction of knocking the opponent so silly that he can barely stand. It would not be unlike stunning someone in Street Fighter, really. Your offense is forcing a disadvantageous state on the opponent so you can capitalize and do even more damage to a clearly outmatched foe.
And yeah, it's odd that A+B hasn't been used for anything. Would have been the best place for the Final Smash attacks, I'd think, instead of just B. You lose options with a final Smash store as it is in Brawl. And being superpowered should not be a disadvantage.
Injured characters already climb back on stage much slower. But yes, I acknowledge that it can be seen as punishing the losing character. But it is in the interest of avoiding a a stalled match where an injured character runs away. Basically when a character hits 100% damage, he should not be long for this world. Get him KO'd, finish the match, start a new one. Round 2, fight!
It may be a little cynical for Smash to do this, though, as it is one of the friendlier fighting games, but in the interest of ending a fight quickly, especially considering that SSB4 will most likely have online play better than Brawl's, it'd be something worth looking at.
SenorArdilla
Member
Sakurai thought that tripping would help even out the skill difference between new players and more experienced players. How SSB4 will turn out is all up in the air.
I was just referring to in the first SSB4 interview he talks about how players will be able to help one another throughout the game:
And then earlier this week that article regarding online play makes it sound like you'll be able to fight people based on skill leve/how you want to play, instead of random people being thrown together all at once.
SenorArdilla
Member
So there may be some sort of ranking system then? That's interesting.
Smash uses analog controls and requires you to hold the stick between sideways and diagonally to get a decent wavedash, whereas Marvel uses digital controls so you just need to press diagonally. I'd say that's a pretty big difference.
It's also worth pointing out that Marvel is inherently a much more technical and input-dependent game, whereas Smash is supposed to have simpler inputs than typical fighters. So even if the inputs were identical, they still wouldn't really be the same thing.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The entirety of Brawl's design seemed to be based around weaker/new players.
- Status