sorijealut
Member
Oh right. forgot about Ivysaur. otherwise those other guys simply have the option of crawling right lol
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
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Oh right. forgot about Ivysaur. otherwise those other guys simply have the option of crawling right lol
Togglesworlh
Banned
...does DK count?
Professor Beef
Banned
He does both, like a bisexual!
Hot Coldman
Banned
Or a polygamist.
Nocturnowl
Member
He truly is the king of swing
Neoriceisgood
Member
Well I'm not close-minded as much as that I have very specific reasons for not being too keen on too many 3rd party characters.
I wrote a huge ass post earlier but deleted it because I should be able to explain my position in a short paragraph:
I personally get most fun and enjoyment out of the unexpected nostalgia Smash can bring & the ability to play characters long forgotten or never playable before (like bosses!)
My argument against 3rd party guys is dead simple: I don't like how 3rd party pretty much guarantees only getting extremely popular protagonists that star in many games to begin with.
I'd obviously prefer good, fun 3rd party guys over lame choices of Nintendo characters, I think about half of Brawl's new guys were pretty lame for example.
But in the ideal case I'd prefer something obscure over something popular.
It's not really fanboyism I think, I feel the same way about something like Final Fantasy Dissidia, the greatest part about a game like that is being able to play stuff like bosses that would never make it into a more general fighting game.
I agree with the sentiment of keeping Smash as close to the Nintendo chest as possible, with any 3rd party additions having to actually make sense or provide alongside them a convincing enough argument for their inclusion.
I feel like there are enough Nintendo characters in the pool to choose from to where they won't really need to be nabbing many more 3rd party characters. Maybe 1 or 2 more additional "guest" characters for the next Smash, but any more than that I'm not sure about.
I feel like there are enough Nintendo characters in the pool to choose from to where they won't really need to be nabbing many more 3rd party characters. Maybe 1 or 2 more additional "guest" characters for the next Smash, but any more than that I'm not sure about.
Black-Wind
Member
I'm sure they would have it be Altaïr as to promote their brand.
Same with Capcom, if it's up to them and Sakurai doesn't ASK for MM I'm sure it will be Ryu or someone in there because Capcom clearly gives Zero Fucks about MM now. :/
It helps that Snake and Sonic also fit into the Nintendoverse pretty well, with Snake coming from an exaggerated sci-fi universe like Metroid and Sonic being a parallel to Mario almost. Unless we got someone like Megaman or Bomberman, there's really not too many other characters who mesh that well.
Professor Beef
Banned
If Altair made it into the next game, I would set up a live webcam and eat my hat.
Togglesworlh
Banned
It would never be Altair. Ever. Ubisoft has an abundance of more suitable candidates for a Smash Bros. game. AFAIK, there's only the one AC game for DS. Then there are the fifty fucking billion Rabbids games. You're fooling yourself if you really think that.
You're joking, right? I could list a couple dozen suitable candidates, if I wanted to take the time to construct a list, and I'd still be missing some.
The pool of potential first-party characters for Smash 4 demonstrates to me how much Nintendo needs new IPs. When someone like Waluigi, a third-tier character who never played a major role in any game, is a top contender... lol
If Rabbids made it in to Smash I would drive across the ocean and throw rocks at Ubisoft's building. That series sucks more than a Kirby vaccum cleaner.
If Rabbids made it in to Smash I would drive across the ocean and throw rocks at Ubisoft's building. That series sucks more than a Kirby vaccum cleaner.
I'm drawing blanks. There's more than just the two of them for sure, but I can't think of any. And of course personal opinions factor in here, but I really don't think there's that many third party characters who fit as well as those Snake and Sonic.
edit: Classic style Simon or Richter would probably tie in with Link and the Fire Emblem characters, but I can't imagine Capcom would approve of using an old design since they seem to have an idea on how they want their characters portrayed.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Are you talking in general or in terms of characters that actually have a shot?
Oh, characters that actually have a chance is what I meant. Klonoa, Dragon Quest IV hero or Quote would be my personal picks and fit in well but they all have a snowball's chance in hell.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I just want Mega Man, classic or X (or both.)
Sonic, Mega Man, and Mario, all in the same fighting game... would be awesome.
Neoriceisgood
Member
On another note, I'd be willing to give up my top 3 character picks if it meant the Level editor would actually allow us to make proper good looking nintendo related stages.
I'm talking Smash 64:Mushroom Kingdom type stages, maybe with some cool nostalgic pixelart tiles to build with.
The level editor in Brawl was sooooo pathetic.
I'd be fine with that, Megaman does deserve it with the insane number of games he had on the NES and SNES.
I'm talking Smash 64:Mushroom Kingdom type stages, maybe with some cool nostalgic pixelart tiles to build with.
The level editor in Brawl was sooooo pathetic.
I'd be fine with that, Megaman does deserve it with the insane number of games he had on the NES and SNES.
to be honest, 3rd part characters should be characters that have close bonds to Nintendo.
Megaman is a good choice because he has a history with Nintendo, 6 games on the NES, several on the SNES and a lot on the GBA etc.
Plus both Nintendo and Capcom have worked on titles before, including a few Zeldas and Starfox assault.
Slime is another good contender, It's an iconic character thats been appearing in some Mario games as of late, plus Dragon quest is huge in Japan, and Nintendo is helping bringing it state side I believe.
Megaman is a good choice because he has a history with Nintendo, 6 games on the NES, several on the SNES and a lot on the GBA etc.
Plus both Nintendo and Capcom have worked on titles before, including a few Zeldas and Starfox assault.
Slime is another good contender, It's an iconic character thats been appearing in some Mario games as of late, plus Dragon quest is huge in Japan, and Nintendo is helping bringing it state side I believe.
The stage creator in Brawl really was awful. I wanted to at least choose backdrops from any of the premade stages. Instead, it looked like Subspace Emissary stuff. Bleh.
I also hope the adventure mode is better, they really padded out Subspace. I wouldn't mind a return to the Melee adventure mode style.
I also hope the adventure mode is better, they really padded out Subspace. I wouldn't mind a return to the Melee adventure mode style.
Trying to wrap my head around how this would work. He was practically a joke character in Mario Sports Mix, but Smash Bros. hasn't had one since Pichu in Melee.
...And if they end up doing it seriously we'll just end up getting Rocket. I support this.
Togglesworlh
Banned
This is what I'm talking about. The fuck do you mean he "deserves" it? Who gives a shit if the character has been primarily on Nintendo consoles or not, as long as they'd be fun additions to the game? Why is Nintendo's pride hurt if someone gets in who, according to you, doesn't "deserve" it? It's such a completely arbitrary thing. Just put the characters in if they fit. Yes, it's a Nintendo game, but that shouldn't stop a potentially interesting character from getting in.
Does fanservice really matter that much more to you than gameplay? Maybe that's why I can't understand you. Gameplay, to me, trumps all else. ESPECIALLY in Smash Bros.
Also I'm changing my Square-Enix vote to: A Slime Knight riding a Slime riding a Chocobo.
Black-Wind
Member
This is Smash Bros and Sakurai we're talking about ... if there's ANYTHING I have learned it's that NOTHING makes logical sense.
Like how Sonic got in ... it somehow took him being the most asked for character on that JPN exclusive "poll" to make the man ask Sega for him. Logically he should have called up Sega the min Snake was put in but he had to waste a "fan character" slot on what everyone assumed was a given.
And according to Sakurai companies have to come to Nintendo and ask for a character to be in there. And the way I see it the only way a COMPANY would do that is if they feel they have something to gain (promotion for a series).
Soooo yeah ... I expect Travis Touchdown and Snake plus maybe Sonic. I don't see any company asking Sakurai to make their character a Smash Bro (Now that Keiji is gone I don't see MM being a personal request from anyone at Capcom) and any that DO certainly wont pick based on how much it makes sense because of "Nintendo Fandom demands".
Neoriceisgood
Member
I'll try to be short:
1. Of course gameplay is important, but I don't know which characters I like until I have the game in my hands and play it, I think certain characters have little to no real gameplay potential, but any character can be ruined or made amazing.
(Case in point: Brawl ruined Link and Cap Falcon for me, they used to be my favourites, now I can't play with them at all simply due to slightly different physics and weight.)
I fully understand what you're saying, gameplay is essential, but to me it's also completely seperate from the actual characters.
2. Yes I do care about fanservice a lot, because I feel that a core part of Smash Brothers is the fanservice. I don't think fanservice should get in the way of gameplay, don't mistake my words, but when it comes to characters I only think it's relevant to a select few.
I honestly think we might be talking past eachother here, because I don't think I ever implied fanservice should triumph over gameplay, unless you're talking about the specifics of adding unique new playstyles to the roster or something like that.
Togglesworlh
Banned
None of that matters, because Ubisoft - in its current state - would rather have Rabbids.
Why would they promote Assassin's Creed on a platform that has never had an Assassin's Creed game? (Although Wii U probably actually will, unlike Wii, which may or may not change things, depending on how heavily they continue to fuck with the Rabbids.)
haha travis touchdown
Hot Coldman
Banned
They need to go much deeper next time with the music. Much, much deeper.
I still find myself listening to the entire Brawl soundtrack. It's like, 8 hours of music or something which is nice for marathon projects. It's very mixed. I dislike basically all of Captain Falcon's game music, for instance, except for a couple of tracks which are really awesome (Fire Field and one other?).
Professor Beef
Banned
I mean shit, they had a Rabbid put on Altair's outfit as a promo once. And they stuck Rabbids in the TMNT game that was a Smash clone. Rabbids, for better or worse, are their go-to characters for anything not related to their blockbusters.
Nocturnowl
Member
I have an Altair Rabbid, it was a surprise Christmas present a few years back. I think the character we all really want if Ubisoft get their dirty mitts on a position in this game is Globox.
Ideally though I wouldn't have any Ubisoft rep as I just don't like them.
Anything from Wario Land series or Wario World would be nice considering how ignored it was in favour of Wario Ware.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The new mixes for F-Zero are brilliantly done. Bad news: there's only 3 of them (Mute City, White Land, Fire Field). The rest is mostly plucked from X, which has CRAP music.
The GX tracks are, of course, great.
Still, the games need more party bangers like 'Do the Mario', or VIRIDIAN CITAAAAAAAYYYYY
Yeah, it was weird that they didn't at least have any music from that series (Besides Wario's win tune), considering how much other fanservice there was.
I think Land is different enough to warrant its own stage, but I'd take music as well. Maybe they'll have some Shake-It stuff.
Black-Wind
Member
The only rule that I remember for 3rd party characters is that they have to have been on a Nintendo platform and there was a AC game on the DS (and by the time SSB4 makes it's way out I'm sure Ubishit will have ported over the latest game in all their HD series along with Capcom and EA and any other company that made good games for the HD twins recently and want to double dip into those profits).
I agree with Professor Beef and you with the "in their current state" bit that a rabbid could make sense. But I don't think rabbidz will continue being they're goto thing next gen ... the Wii is why they're so big now but who knows if that will carry over to WU. Personally, I don't think it will and I think Ubishit will figure that now they can treat the Nintendo Console like the other 2 platforms. Plus this would be a great opportunity to introduce their main cash-cow to Nintendo fans.
But regardless, I don't think anyone from any company such as Ubi or EA or Capcom will be asking Nintendo to put anything in Smash.
Travis is actually the only one outside of Snake that I'm sure will get in ... and it's for the exact same reason Snake got in.
The Xtortionist
Member
idk how Captain Falcon didn't even have his character theme in Brawl
Hot Coldman
Banned
This is genuinely one of my favourite Nintendo tracks of all time.
Togglesworlh
Banned
In that same vein, neither will Altair continue being their goto thing for HD their franchises.
Not least because AC isn't about Altair - it's about some nobody with genetic memories pertaining to Altair, Ezio, and whomever stars in their next game.
But also because AC won't last forever.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Seems like a lot of people magically forgot the "one rule" of 3rd party characters to be invited.
Sonic and Snake got it due to special reasons (one as a favor and one as fan request due to the barriers being knocked down). It works yes, but Smash always has been a theme of Nintendo cast bashing each other.
I would like to see this imaginary "deranged Nintendo fan" you are speaking of, especially when we've been consistent so far on our reasoning. It's like one of those people who'd love to cram a lot of pointless stuff into something just for the sake of "it adds more!"
Sonic and Snake got it due to special reasons (one as a favor and one as fan request due to the barriers being knocked down). It works yes, but Smash always has been a theme of Nintendo cast bashing each other.
I would like to see this imaginary "deranged Nintendo fan" you are speaking of, especially when we've been consistent so far on our reasoning. It's like one of those people who'd love to cram a lot of pointless stuff into something just for the sake of "it adds more!"
Smash Bros. has already used a Konami and a Sega character so the next one should probably include three guest characters from Capcom, Namco, and Square Enix (one from each of course). Possible choices could include from MegaMan, Amaterasu, Viewtiful Joe, Pac Man, a Tales of.....(character), Yoshimitsu, Sora, Sephiroth, etc. Maybe even a Disney character. Mickey would be a good choice especially with Epic Mickey being Wii-exclusive and all.
Togglesworlh
Banned
So? Who gives a shit? Why should it have to remain that way? The only defense people ever have is "it's about Nintendo", but that doesn't necessarily make it right. If a character would be a fun addition and could fit into the mishmash world of "SMASH BROS, WHERE EVERYONE FIGHTS EVERYONE!", there's absolutely no reason not to include them. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Etc.
Yes, you are being consistent in your stubbornness and unwillingness to accept the idea of change. That doesn't make you right.
Haha, yes, that's what I am. Clearly I'm asking for 100 more characters (ALL THIRD PARTY, OR ELSE) and 50 more levels and 2000 more songs. YES. THAT'S ME.
Good lord.
sorijealut
Member
Also, in third party matters, licensing? isn't it hard to get an OK? isn't it expensive?
AND all this character talk should come after a solid mechanics base,
that is a given for all of us, right?
AND all this character talk should come after a solid mechanics base,
that is a given for all of us, right?
...Mickey isn't a video game character. There's no loop-holing this.
And get Sephiroth away from Smash Bros. YUCK
It's free advertising to have your character included in a big title like Smash Bros. There might be deals going on behind the scenes, but it's not like Nintendo is shelling out millions to Sega and Konami when they're mutually benefiting each other.
And no, it's not. I play Smash Bros. for the crazy party fighting with random nonsense and characters I like. I couldn't care less if it's a carbon copy of Melee or becomes "Tripping: the game".
Hot Coldman
Banned
The only FF villain that gets to be in Smash is Kefka. End of.
He's been in Kingdom Hearts and there's Epic Mickey. He has starred in enough games to be considered for Smash.
Professor Beef
Banned
A villain from the 2nd worst FF game? Yuck.
Dragon Ball Z had a fuckton of games too. Might as well throw Goku in.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Oh you.
As far a I know, Snake was "begged" to be included in Smash Bros. Melee. But the game was already pretty much done at the time and Nintendo decided not to include him which likewise led to his appearance in the third game (Brawl).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Actually it does make it right. Like I said, it ruins the theme and the idea in general. Like, you're in this themed Greek toga party, then one of the guests brought someone who is wearing 70's outfit. It was fine enough. Then the next toga party you see twenty of them since apparently it's all right. It's a smudge in the theme.
All change is not good. You can change much in Smash, and believe me it does need some changing, but changing one of its foundations? Nah.
Clearly your inability to see through our points and simply consider those who do share those viewpoints as insane fanboys should be good enough. Still, you should take up your requests on that Sony Smash thing - they seem to be more receptive on that.
Yeah, no. One of the factors was "not a character from a cartoon, novel, or comic". You're setting up a precedent which will inevitably lead Naruto here.
For clarification - Kojima asked Sakurai to include him.
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