Neoriceisgood
Member
I like the direction this thread is going.
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
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Samus lays a power bomb.
PokéKong;35714469 said:
True. I think Ridley will be the biggest character on the roster with his added wing span. And I'm ok with that. He will be a special Smash size but it'll work. He could be a more aerial character with maybe a long hover (think Peach) and with a few diving moves but when he lands he'll be more stationary with a lot of lag to his moves because of his length. I don't think people would really mind something like that.
Only after Adam authorizes it.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Game & Watch's powerlevel: Go gaf, go!
Hmmm.. that's not bad at all he could be a few pixels bigger. A nice Smash sized Melee.
Lol. Serious though. Samus would just probably scan ganondorf to find out if he is really invincible and act accordingly. She already deals with a guy who's already invincible: Ridley. lol.
If all fails, just blow up Hyule and the Realm of the Goddesses.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
I'd say bigger wings, but folded in so that they don't take up any more spac than that. They can open up during certain special moves.
But yeah- Ridley is probably the most important Nintendo character not yet playable in Smash.
Hot Coldman
Banned
With all the power of cracking open a glass tube!
That's true. The problem with this shit is all the protags have plot armour anyway, so yeah, she'd get that shit.
Olimar could just crawl inside people and fuck up their insides, lol
Neoriceisgood
Member
Ridley could kill everyone's parents.
That should be his final smash.
Professor Beef
Banned
Smash Power Rankings? I'm almost tempted to care.
I need to find footage of this now.
So if Zelda only got one more character in SSB4, who would you guys like to see?
Many people are saying Ghirahim or Impa, but personally, I think Tingle would be amazing. I love WTF/joke characters and Tingle would be the perfect way to joke with people who are complaining about slot stealers.
Many people are saying Ghirahim or Impa, but personally, I think Tingle would be amazing. I love WTF/joke characters and Tingle would be the perfect way to joke with people who are complaining about slot stealers.
I like the idea of Toon Zelda with a Tetra transformation, but the time for that may have passed. Tingle would be cool because he could have Balloon Fight-inspired moves as well.
Green Mamba
Member
I don't particularly want any, but I personally think Toon Zelda that transforms into a Phantom (instead of Toon Sheik/Tetra) is the most likely, no matter what everyone else has convinced themselves of otherwise.
but that would mean there would be no Geno!!!
Nocturnowl
Member
Deku Scrub Link, using the flower recovery to drop deku nuts over the map would be fun
Yeah, I'd take a unique Toon Link moveset over a new Zelda character probably. He had plenty of unique tools they didn't utilize. Deku Leaf and Skull Hammer come to mind. There are some interesting items from Spirit Tracks they could use too.
Also if he returns I want an alt costume where he has Ezlo for a hat.
Professor Beef
Banned
GOOD
You know what they should also do with Toon Link?
Let him have this hat:
.png/250px-Ezlo_(Cap_Form).png)
That'd be amazing. Too bad they won't do it
Black-Wind
Member
Impa.
She's the last of the relevant staple characters in LoZ and with the ending to SS it
seems like she's either cursed along side Link and Zelda/ the goddess to be reincarnated to do her role as Zelda's Guardian/ Protector over and over again or the goddess/ Zelda simply wills her to be reincarnated along side her to aid her and Link in their next lives
Demise, on the other hand,
would be a prefect Ganon replacement IMO seeing as he IS Ganon and tons of other villains in LoZ ... he just looks and acts different in every game/ saga because he is the incarnation of hatred inside these people. But I already know people are gonna throw a bitch fit over that because "Bleh Blah smash doesn't have to rep the series directly and logically! Blah blah Ganon is more well known! Blah blah characters shouldn't be replaced/ taken out! Blah blah Ganon is the Tri-force holder" and so on ... so I wont even try to endorse that now.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
Sheik. And Mewtwo/Lucario, basically.
I want a Paper Mario stage. There's already enough Mario characters that I don't need him to be playable, but let's see some proper representation for the series.
Sheik is Zelda, and Mewtwo and Lucario have each appeared in a bunch of games. You can't honestly tell me that Sheik would have been included as a standalone character in Melee if she was just some random Sheikah and not Zelda's alter ego. The transformation is what makes Zelda unique in SSB.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Don't most Zelda users just switch to Sheik right away and never bother actually being Zelda? Effectively just losing the use of one whole B move for the sake of adding a step to selecting which character you want to use.
There doesn't seem to be any practical fighting advantage to transforming characters, there is never really that theoretical time when "the battle changes" and circumstances call for a different form which better suits the situation. It's basically you play as who you feel like, and have the option available to change mid-battle simply because you get bored of it. Really doesn't seem worth it to me, especially in the case of Pokemon Trainer where not only do you lose a B move, but there's the stamina thing.
I would really rather have fully developed legitimate characters "taking up" five character slots than five nerfed characters crammed into two slots.
There doesn't seem to be any practical fighting advantage to transforming characters, there is never really that theoretical time when "the battle changes" and circumstances call for a different form which better suits the situation. It's basically you play as who you feel like, and have the option available to change mid-battle simply because you get bored of it. Really doesn't seem worth it to me, especially in the case of Pokemon Trainer where not only do you lose a B move, but there's the stamina thing.
I would really rather have fully developed legitimate characters "taking up" five character slots than five nerfed characters crammed into two slots.
PokéKong;35724166 said:
I agree with this. I don't agree that the solution is to just eliminate transforming characters altogether, though, but to make transforming characters that incentivize the player to make use of all the transformations. They tried doing this in Brawl by forcing Samus to transform with her Final Smash, and with the stamina thing for Pokemon Trainer, but I feel like they didn't really do a good job with either one. Samus doesn't work because people so frequently play with Final Smashes off. Pokemon Trainer works in making you switch between Pokemon, but none of the Pokemon are very good by themselves, so nobody plays as them.
For Zelda: Transforming should be pretty much instantaneous. The amount of time that it takes to transform discourages it. You should press down B, a puff of smoke appears, and Sheik backflips out of it. Real quick. Give Sheik all the quick damage moves and Zelda all the slow killing moves; they've generally been this way from the start, and Brawl went further, but go even further.
For Pokemon Trainer: Just make the three characters better. Maybe have some moves that summon one of the other Pokemon for an assist to further emphasize that they're working as a team - yes, totally illegal in Pokemon, but they already do it for their Final Smash. And again, switching should be much faster.
For Samus: I'm usually against removing unique move sets, but get ZSS out of there. She was a stupid idea to begin with.
friskykillface
Banned
Ryu or Mega Man , who gets in for Capcom :O
I'd actually be fine with either, though I'd prefer Mega Man. Ryu obviously has the fighting game connection and it would be interesting to play him in this engine, but Mega Man has the history with Nintendo.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Replace Toon Link with MM Young Link.
Use Down+B to transform into Zora, Deku, and Goron Link like Pokemon Trainer.
Final Smash is Fierce Diety.
It will be right in time for that Majora's Mask 3DS remake, right Nintendo?
Black-Wind
Member
Sheik is one Alter Ego from one LoZ game and one "Zelda" out of the many Zeldas in the series. Sheik is a one off character/ alter ego.
Lets see ...
Staple character that plays a relevant role in multiple games as a protector/ guardian to Zelda as well as a guild to Link? Or a one off alter-ego of one Zelda from one game?
The incarnation of hatred that passes on from villain to villain over time, being reborn anew to continue the never ending fight between it, the goddess and Link? Or one famed vessel of that hatred that's doomed to forever be a Captain Falcon clone?
I'm willing to go out and full on debate Impa but I know the Demise thing wont go too well and likely wont happen regardless of the logic behind having the origin of the very basic conflict that pushes the series in Smash.
Green Mamba
Member
You're really are the never ending fountain of bad ideas, aren't you?
Eggplant Wizard
Member
Lucario and Mewtwo were only prominent in one set of games (and remakes) each. Their appearances in other games may as well have been cameos. Although I should acknowledge that pretty much every Pokemon is this way, so it's not as relevant as I made it out to be.
Sheik probably wouldn't have been in Melee if it wasn't for her status as an alter ego, but I think the more important factor is how recently she had been introduced when Melee was in development. If Zelda hadn't been added to the series until Brawl, I highly doubt that Sheik would have been playable, since it had been ten years since her only appearance. Sheik was added because she was a memorable part of a recent release, and I think the same could apply for Ghirahim.
Black-Wind's insistence that Impa has a chance to get in reminds me of the guy who insisted Marin had a chance for Brawl. Crazy talk, yo. Skyward Sword was her biggest role in a Zelda game, and she was still very much a side character.
Link, Zelda, Ganon. That is the Triforce. That is all you need to represent the Zelda series. Maybe keep Toon Link around to represent that side of the series. Maybe Tingle gets his own series icon. But as far as unique characters who have the Triforce as their logo, you really only need the main three to cover all the bases of the Zelda series.
Just give Ganondorf an original move set, and Toon Link too if he sticks around.
Link, Zelda, Ganon. That is the Triforce. That is all you need to represent the Zelda series. Maybe keep Toon Link around to represent that side of the series. Maybe Tingle gets his own series icon. But as far as unique characters who have the Triforce as their logo, you really only need the main three to cover all the bases of the Zelda series.
Just give Ganondorf an original move set, and Toon Link too if he sticks around.
Black-Wind
Member
Just because you may not agree with my logic doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I don't see anything wrong with having Impa or Demise in Smash ... she's Zelda's/ the goddess's protector and guardian and Demise is the incarnation of hatred that is born into most villains in LoZ ... just so happens that Sakurai makes LoZ characters clones regardless without seemingly caring how unique they can be. Be it Toon Link/ Y Link who COULD be different to Link or Ganon which didn't make a lick of sense outside of "same general body type?".
So if Impa did get in I don't see him making her too unique ... and instead of having a Sheik clone wondering around why not just use her as a means to advance the "Sheik" play-style by replacing her? But w/e, I get that people like to cry "Nooo" at the thought of a character being replaced with something and hey, I don't like it much either.
Diddy Kong
Banned
The role of a nanny , aside from SS. She might as well be a one off. She's a secondary character at best. Bottom line. Sheik works because she's Zelda. Sheik also has two Smash appearances. Impa doesn't even have a trophy.
As for Demise, you can't say "one off" for Sheik and then argue for a "one off" to replace a staple.
Apparently I come to Super Smash Brothers for incredibly different reasons. Can I just have Melee physics and FD without terrible ledges? Online without items and with matchmaking & leaderboards? The return of wavedashing?
I mean, I do like Ridley a whole lot, but they should just put him in the game if he works with it and not put him in if he doesn't. Make him whatever size makes his hitbox not prone to being too easy to combo or too capable of crazy disjoints. I'd say "who cares" about the whole canon/size thing, but apparently people do. Wouldn't you rather that the game is fun than accurate?
I mean, I do like Ridley a whole lot, but they should just put him in the game if he works with it and not put him in if he doesn't. Make him whatever size makes his hitbox not prone to being too easy to combo or too capable of crazy disjoints. I'd say "who cares" about the whole canon/size thing, but apparently people do. Wouldn't you rather that the game is fun than accurate?
Green Mamba
Member
No, I'm quite comfortable with saying replacing Ganondorf with Demise is a bad idea. Part of your logic requires the assumption that all of the Zelda villains were incarnations of Demise's hatred, not just Ganondorf, which is a tenuous link at best. Consider that Vaati and Ganon were alive at the same time, Malladus is an ancient demon that predates Ganondorf's death, etc.--if Demise's hatred (not Demise himself, remember!) really did reincarnate as every villain you'd have to say that it can reincarnate several times at once, which there is no evidence for. All we know, going by what Aunoma said and the ending's implications, is that Demise was the origin of Ganondorf. The rest is weak extrapolation at best.
And arguing against Sheik's inclusion because she's a one off character and then supporting Demise to replace Ganondorf (the next most recurring character after Link and Zelda)? Jesus, man, step back and reassess your arguments.
EDIT: Sorry for coming across as so inflammatory, I haven't really had the best day.
Professor Beef
Banned
Impa is practically the definition of an unimportant NPC. If she gets in, I'll eat my hat.
Don't even get me started on Demise/Akuma.
Don't even get me started on Demise/Akuma.
Impa. I wouldn't care if she was based off of Sheik, she would be an interesting character and I agree with Black-Wind, she is important to the series. BUT something tells me that Ghirahim is more likely.
Either one is good. Ryu would be sexy to play as in Smash though.
I think the main problem with replacing her is that Smash takes place in its own world so it would be hard to justify getting rid of a character that still has relevance to the Smash series. But there could be a problem if all the Zelda characters get an upgraded SS look while Sheik stayed the same. Maybe will get a "what if Sheik appeared in SS" model to go with Zelda's new SS model like we did in Brawl because of TP? Either way Impa could still be in as a clone whose unique in her own way.
I'd be very surprised if they even acknowledge wavedashing at all moving forward. Their focus seems to be on making the game accessible.
Green Mamba
Member
Yep, by adding the feature of randomly potentially losing control of your character every time you try to run.
It makes sense when you don't think about it.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Impas have been in the Zelda series for a long time (although yeah, most of them are kind of unimportant). If they really want to make the Zelda characters look like their SS incarnations, then turning Sheik into Impa would actually be pretty elegant.
Personally I'd rather just see them keep Sheik, but I can see how Impa might get in. I don't think there's any way Impa would actually be her own character, though.
I think Sheik got in for both of those reasons. If Zelda didn't get in Smash Bros. until Brawl, then Sheik wouldn't have gotten in, but if Sheik was her own character in OoT (that is, if she had exactly the same role but was a separate person from Zelda), I don't think she would have gotten in Smash Bros.
Also, didn't Mewtwo show up in a lot of side games (like the Mystery Dungeon games) as an optional superboss? I know you kind of acknowledged this, but, while I can't speak for Lucario, Mewtwo really isn't a one-off character at all.
Mewtwo, maybe, but at this point I don't think Roy will. It's true that he's popular in both America and Japan, but he'd have to compete against other characters (probably including a third Fire Emblem one) to make it in at this point. If Awakening didn't exist, I think he might have a decent chance, but, unless Awakening totally bombs, why would Nintendo want him in the game instead of Krom?
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