Really? I think they really tried to make him fit in, if he had the WW shaders he would've looked more out of place. (Though I would've liked that)
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Really? I think they really tried to make him fit in, if he had the WW shaders he would've looked more out of place. (Though I would've liked that)
Heels turns to face.
Nah, it should be running away from a North American audience.
I disagree. I thought they did a great job making him fit in. He isn't any more out of place than Ness is:
I kind of feel like once you remove the cel-shading from a TWW character, it loses a lot of context behind its style/design. Maybe it is irrational, but it was something that bothered me in Brawl.
Falco.
If it wasn't for Wolf, I'd keep Falco, but since we have Wolf, Fox already has a rival in the game. Falco is just the number one wingman in Star Fox. Now, he did change a bit away from Fox in Brawl, but honestly, he's still pretty similar to Fox. Wolf kind of takes the slower, tougher, stronger variant of the moveset spot now. And he's only loosely based on Fox, too.
So, yeah. Drop Falco unless Falco gets a starring role in a new Star Fox game. (Star Falco!) I could also have said Lucas, but there are two Mother characters, both main characters, and three Star Fox characters: the hero, the sidekick, and the rival. The sidekick can be left out.
Well that explains a lot. Only time I ever went to a Smash tourney there were Diddys fucking everywhere.
Anyways cut Toon Link.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I was bothered that Toon Link didn't match his own level's style.
Pirate Ship managed to stay cell shaded (sort of) and match Smash just fine, remaining bright, cheery and true to Windwaker.
And then Toon Link kind of loses all that charm and looks like they took a drawing of Toon Link and tried to recreate him in Twilight Princess style.
Pirate Ship managed to stay cell shaded (sort of) and match Smash just fine, remaining bright, cheery and true to Windwaker.
And then Toon Link kind of loses all that charm and looks like they took a drawing of Toon Link and tried to recreate him in Twilight Princess style.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
If Golden Sun somehow couldn't get any characters in Brawl, then it probably won't get any in the next game. I think it was one of the most successful new (character-driven) series that debuted between Melee and Brawl's releases too, so that makes Sakurai's statement pretty damning. The most successful games in the franchise are only going to get farther and farther away, and I don't think Dark Dawn will make any difference.
The Wars series is big enough to get a playable character, but now it seems pretty unlikely that any of them would get in, especially since pretty much every character in the series is in sort of a limbo (their games aren't old enough to be classic, but they aren't new anymore either).
Actually, I was saying that under the assumption that Dark Dawn didn't do very well - or at least it didn't do anywhere near as well as the GBA games. If the third game really didn't do well, then I don't think it matters that it will be as far away from SSB4 as The Lost Age was from Brawl.
Toon Link isn't the only "style offender" if you want to go down that route. Ness and Lucas appear only as sprites in their games, and their promotional material shows them as clay models; their Brawl characters look nothing like that. There's also R.O.B. going from a cheap plastic toy to a highly-detailed robot with rocket boosters. Ice Climbers and Pit are also highly re-imagined. There are others, too.
Nocturnowl
Member
Mario and his surprisingly detailed overalls as well for that matter, and his angry expression he wears all the time in SSB.
Funnily enough, what I've noticed is that each Smash Bros. seems to base its character model style around the latest Zelda game -- Link is always the least changed character. Melee characters were patterned after the OOT/MM/Spaceworld 2000 style, and Brawl's characters were given realistic detailing and subdued colors like in Twilight Princess.
Hopefully all of the SSB4 characters don't look like they're from Skyward Sword.
Hopefully all of the SSB4 characters don't look like they're from Skyward Sword.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's not as bad as Yoshi in melee though
Especially since Yoshi has never looked like that at all. During the Melee days he always was using his Yoshi Story appearance, and would right up until Galaxy 2 changed it up a bit.
Nocturnowl
Member
Yoshi's melee appearance harks back to his Super Mario World design, where he's like an actual dinosaur instead of the newt from Yoshi's Story (which were baby Yoshi's anyway).
Somehow that design caught on and now stubby Yoshi is here to stay, i'm not a fan.
Somehow that design caught on and now stubby Yoshi is here to stay, i'm not a fan.
Black-Wind
Member
Oh please, let's not go down this route of thinking that every possible series that could get into Smash somehow missed the smash boat because it didn't show up on Brawl's roster.
Brawl had 5 new series added to it's roster, Wario/ KI (retro)/ Pikmin/ Snake and Sonic. I'm willing to say they all out-ranked a lot of characters on Sakurai's "possible list" of new series.
... What?
He said there weren't many new series released between Melee and Brawl which would make picking "hard"... not that there were simply NONE to pick from. And if anything that would help it's chances seeing as, in Sakurai's eye's, the list of new series in that time-frame to pick from is pretty short.
And on top of that ... he's talking about picking new series for Smash 4 from games released in between Melee and Brawl. A series going on to have more releases AFTER brawl surely doesn't hurt. I would say it helps.
New character from the games to rep a classic/ old-as-dirt series, not something I would say is out of the question.
Yeah, that's what I THOUGHT you were saying. (As in, making some arbitrary goal post e.g "sells success")
And to that I say ... I'm pretty sure Sakurai just picks what he thinks is relevant and fun when it comes to characters not from the 3 big series. I really think that S&P will be apart of the roster simply because of how open Sakurai was with his Brawl DoJo page about it's AT.
Shadow Hog
Member
Clearly they should add the guy from Urban Champion, given Nintendo's love of pushing that title despite all human comprehension.
As for who I'd remove, if we really had to cross that bridge... Probably one of the many "clone" characters in the roster. I mean, I get that they have not-so-subtle differences between them all, but you'd really have to get into one of the given characters to appreciate said differences. To this day I'm still not entirely sure what made Fox and Falco so different in Melee, barring Falco's gun firing slower (and presumably doing more damage to compensate).
One of the two Star Fox clones is a fairly obvious pick... Although when I hear that Wolf was supposed to be in the friggin' N64 game, I'm actually leaning toward cutting Falco.
As for who I'd remove, if we really had to cross that bridge... Probably one of the many "clone" characters in the roster. I mean, I get that they have not-so-subtle differences between them all, but you'd really have to get into one of the given characters to appreciate said differences. To this day I'm still not entirely sure what made Fox and Falco so different in Melee, barring Falco's gun firing slower (and presumably doing more damage to compensate).
One of the two Star Fox clones is a fairly obvious pick... Although when I hear that Wolf was supposed to be in the friggin' N64 game, I'm actually leaning toward cutting Falco.
Black-Wind
Member
... OK, have fun with that.
Those series would provide awesome characters to a game like Smash but if you find humor in their possible exclusion then I don't really know what you want from this game.
AlphaDragoon
Member
I bet A LOT of people would love to use this Roy in Smash 4.
This needs to happen. NEEDS TO happen. That Roy is amazing (I changed my avatar for it lol).
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Stage too.A Link to the Past
Banned
What are your choices for a character in Smash that isn't in yet?
Is that remark necessary? really?
we don't need to hate each other
I'm joking! With the laughing, that is -- I really don't think we're going to see a Sin & Punishment or Golden Sun character.
Those series would provide awesome characters, but what I want to see has nothing to do with what I expect to see.
Well, there are a lot I'd like to see for personal, selfish reasons, but Palutena's the only character that I can confidently say will most likely be in the game. There's also going to be a new Pokémon and a new Fire Emblem character, and probably a few retro and third-party characters. That's not very specific, I know, but I'm not psychic. I anticipate a lot of disappointment with the newcomer count hovering around 10.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I think I can be okay with 10-12 newcomers, and please list your personal picks because I am very interesting in your.
My personal picks
Laughing Dog from Duck Hunt
Takamaru
Isaac/Felix/Anyone - Golden Sun
Roy - Fire Emblem
Paper Mario
King K Rool
Little Mac
Medusa/Palutena
Geno - Come to me, haters! I know he have very slim chance to get in.
Mega Man
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Professor Beef
Banned
The cycle continues...
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Feh, cycle continues with people kept bringing up the smash cycle. :B
The only newcomers I really want to see are Ridley, Little Mac, and somebody from Animal Crossing. I'm not confident in any of them, though. In terms of retro characters, Duck Hunt, Excitebike, and Balloon Fight are the most significant NES games left, but again, I wouldn't bet on any of those.
My second controversial statement of the night(!): Little Mac is the most unrealistically expected newcomer. I think he's more likely to be excluded than to make the cut.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I don't mind to see Tom Nook being playable character because I can see him being playable character if they pulled it right.
It's better to keep your exceptions low for characters that you want to see to be in the game so that way our hype wouldn't crush.
Black-Wind
Member
You don't seem to expect much if anything
Personally the only thing I'm 100% sure of is New Pokemon and FE Character of some kind, some KI nepotism, some characters from series not in brawl, Retro character rep and some 3rd party character(s) which I'm sure will include Travis Touchdown (for the exact same reason Snake got in).
Also, I'm MUCH more interested in the "customization" features Sakurai talked about ... but people don't talk about that, which is kinda understandable seeing as we know nothing about it.
So yeah, I'm not psychic either ... but I find it more interesting to have fun speculating and talking instead of pretending I am. People feeling they can shoot down anything in threads like these leads to these in-breed roster list of "safe" characters that don't cause an argument from others ... followed by the actual game having some shocking characters that no-one/ few fans expected when it's released.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You expect 10, when the number of new characters has never been lower than 12?
I dunno, the Dojo entry for Saki's Assist Trophy makes me think that Sakurai may actually push for him to be in.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist12.html
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but just give it a look (especially this bit at the end
H-he has absolutely no problem fitting in!
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, it's magical numbers. I expect 10 newcomers and two returning characters from Melee (Roy and Mewtwo)
However, it's way better if we have low exceptions because I'm scarred from what's happens with Brawl hype. Hype was insane. Lesson Learned.
Yeah, I think he could be a good fit. He could use like a fishing rod as a grab/ledge grab, catch characters in bugnets to keep them in some sort of stun state. Use the axe in a Final smash. Stuff like that.
I think he'd fit well.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but just give it a look (especially this bit at the end
Dojo? More like Trolljo.
They have to progressively update a ton of returning fighters, so I definitely expect a dropoff in newcomer count.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yeah, Indeed. Very similar moveset that I can think of.
Also he should use those leaves/furniture as side B if I remember the game correctly.
I dunno, the Dojo entry for Saki's Assist Trophy makes me think that Sakurai may actually push for him to be in.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist12.html
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but just give it a look (especially this bit at the end
YOU MUST RECOVER!
Also Do you remember the situation with Lucas and Ness?
Around 10. Keep in mind we've never gotten two games at once, either. That's going to play a bigger role in all of this than a lot of you think. There are also a ton of veterans that they're going to have to bring back; more than ever before.
Professor Beef
Banned
Fuck the Dojo. I stayed up late just for a goddamned banana peel.
His Final Smash should be dropping a house on the stage or throwing different furniture leaves out. Maybe get his little cousins/nephews (?) in some of his moves as well.
Starphoenix
Member
That's the problem, you view it as a Sin and Punishment and Golden Sun character.
Professor Beef
Banned
...How else should he view them?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Feh, I had it worse. With those stupid music updates, so I had it worse than yall.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Sakurai is perfectly aware that a reasonable increase to the roster is to be expected.
I'm anticipating 12-14 new characters. Ideally, I'd like them to be...
Tingle
Saki Amamiya
Isaac
Little Mac
Medusa
Mewtwo
Samurai Goroh (a more likely choice than in Brawl, if F-Zero is really in the books)
Ridley
Andy
Victini
Starfy
Roy
Captain Syrup
Slime (as the obligatory third party rep)
Starphoenix
Member
As characters, individually. One of my biggest pet peeve's is when people take this House of Representative philosophy towards the roster and try rationalizing what series do and do not deserve.
My personal guess is this:
- All of Brawl's characters are brought back.
- Mewtwo and Roy return.
- 12 true newcomers
- Total character count 53.
Keep in mind that the total character count for Melee and Brawl was a multiple of 13, so its possible the total character count will be 52.
Newcomers I definitely see making it are Ridley, Mega Man, Palutena, Little Mac, Miyamoto's new IP, and some sort of retro newcomer. I think both K. Rool and Dixie Kong should make it, but I am a bit worried about those two characters since they did not appear in Donkey Kong Country Returns (which sold nearly one million copies in just Japan alone), and their only appearance since Brawl's release was Mario Super Sluggers. Still K. Rool and Dixie Kong have a better resume than any other veteran series character not named Ridley. Miis are another character that makes sense, but may not get in due to Sakurai's statements about them in an Iwata Asks interview for Brawl. A Mario character (Toad particularly comes to mind) would also be a good choice, but I have a feeling that Sakurai may regard Mario as being "complete".
I think if F-Zero does get a second character, it will definitely be a clone or luigi-fied clone of an existing character. It will either be Samurai Goroh (who would be a clone/luig-fied clone of Takamaru) or Black Shadow (who if he got in, would take Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset).
*stays up late every god damn night*
YOU MUST RECOVER
*decides to go to sleep early one night to be ready for a test*
...No, I'm talking about the individual characters. Isaac, Matthew, Saki, or Isa Jo, it makes no difference; I don't think any of them are getting in. Better?
Hm, yeah. He could take out a leaf from his pocket, which in turn tranforms into a random item that he can throw.
Oh right, I forgot those guys. Might be a good fit for a final smash, having them come out and aid you in some sort of way.
Also. If an animal crossing character is in, it's got to have a pitfall move (I am aware that it exists as an item in Brawl).
Oh well. Speculations.
Professor Beef
Banned
*stays up late every god damn night*
YOU MUST RECOVER
*decides to go to sleep early one night to be ready for a test*
Ah, the Sonic update. My friend texted me while I was *ahem* with my girlfriend just to let me know.
No, I don't know why I decided to leave my phone on.
Here's a pipe dream idea; Chell. Her playstyle would revolve around exploiting the traps she sets with her portals and gels.
B - Portal Gun shot. First shot creates a blue portal, second an orange one. Portals can only be placed on the stage and disintegrate after being used. The opponent is stunned for a short period after going through a portal.
Side B - Repulsion Gel. Similar to a bumper but only makes you bounce upward.
Side B (smash) - Propulsion Gel. Increases the velocity of a character walking or falling on it, similar to the UFO in the Fourside stage. Chell's moves become more powerful when sped up by the gel. Disappears after being used.
Down B - Companion Cube. It spawns directly above Chell and can be used as a projectile. Similar to Link's bombs or Peach's turnips.
Up B - Aerial Faith Plate. Similar to Sonic's Up B.
Final Smash -
A bit complicated and potentially broken but I think she would make for a really interesting character.
B - Portal Gun shot. First shot creates a blue portal, second an orange one. Portals can only be placed on the stage and disintegrate after being used. The opponent is stunned for a short period after going through a portal.
Side B - Repulsion Gel. Similar to a bumper but only makes you bounce upward.
Side B (smash) - Propulsion Gel. Increases the velocity of a character walking or falling on it, similar to the UFO in the Fourside stage. Chell's moves become more powerful when sped up by the gel. Disappears after being used.
Down B - Companion Cube. It spawns directly above Chell and can be used as a projectile. Similar to Link's bombs or Peach's turnips.
Up B - Aerial Faith Plate. Similar to Sonic's Up B.
Final Smash -
Moon Portal. Chell fires a portal to the sky and another on the ground. This creates a huge vortex that sucks in and damages your opponents.
A bit complicated and potentially broken but I think she would make for a really interesting character.
I definitely think Golden Sun's chances are shot (the main hope for them being that there still seems to be a lot of Western interest in Isaac getting in). However. I think if we do get two newcomers that rely on primarily Western interest they are going to be Ridley and Little Mac.
As for Isa, I think he won't get in due to the dismal sales performance of S&P2 (which was even worse than the original S&P).
Saki, I think has the best shot of all the characters you mentioned, and I think has best chances for playable status of Brawl's Assist Trophies, outside of Little Mac and Samurai Goroh.
Black-Wind
Member
We have never seen Sakurai allow his team to help balance the characters either ... I'm sure that will make some kinda difference as well. Not everything they're doing is gonna have some negative effect ya know.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I really hope that the team is like 1.5x bigger than Brawl team because I would like to see 45ish characters because I would be not happy to see some characters being cutting due to not enough times that they have been saying for last 3 games production.
Edited: I know it's unrealistic.
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