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Nintendo 3DS Japanese Launch Thread

C

crankypants

Member
Effect said:
Is 30 FPS the same on a 3DS game as a normal 30FPS game since it's being done on two screens instead of one?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, yes, because under the hood the games are just rendering out one 800 x 240 frame that's being sliced in half vertically for the 3D effect, left eye/right eye.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Wizpig said:
About all the Ridge Racer talk, is it a joke that some of the content is from an iOS version?
I'd buy it only if the game is 100% new.
Click to expand...
What was the last RR that was 100% new?
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
crankypants said:
As far as I know, yes, because under the hood the games are just rendering out one 800 x 240 frame that's being sliced in half vertically for the 3D effect, left eye/right eye.
Click to expand...
Nope, Super Street Fighter IV at least is 60fps in both 2D and 3D, as is Ridge Racer. Only one single game drops to 30fps in 3D, and that's Dead or Alive.
 
C

crankypants

Member
Dreamwriter said:
Nope, Super Street Fighter IV at least is 60fps in both 2D and 3D, as is Ridge Racer.
Click to expand...

Street Fighter IV runs at 60, but only if you set the option in the in-game menu to 3D OFF. Even when you run the stereoscopic 3D and turn it off via the slider, the game still runs at 30.

This is a little different than Dead or Alive Dimensions, which has the ability to shift its framerate on the fly using the 3D slider. If 3D is on, it runs at 30. Slide it off, it immediately pops to 60.

While I don't have any sort of instruments to determine exact framerates, I consider myself a very good judge of games that run at 60 and 30, and the only time Ridge Racer 3D runs at 60 is in its sprite-based menu system.
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
M3d10n said:
Also, there are various other calculations which only need to be done once:
- Real time shadows (they are rendered from the light's POV and can be re-used for both images)
- CPU-based character skinning (aka: animating the model to match the joints)
- Updating particle positions.
- Real-time environment reflections.

These are the items that must be done twice:
- Vertex processing (transformation and shaders - vertices must be submitted twice to the GPU).
- Polygon assembly and clipping.
- Rasterisation (drawing the actual pixels) and per-pixel effects.

So, GPU-wise, rendering in 3D does means doubling the polycount and drawing twice the amount of pixels. If Nintendo had decided on 3D earlier, maybe they could have time to order a custom GPU with a modified geometry pipeline which takes two camera matrices instead of one and does the geometry doubling on the GPU (reusing as much non-view dependent data as possible), so they wouldn't have needed to increase the clock speed so much as they did.
Click to expand...

What's the clock speed of the 3DS?
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
crankypants said:
Street Fighter IV runs at 60, but only if you set the option in the in-game menu to 3D OFF. Even when you run the stereoscopic 3D and turn it off via the slider, the game still runs at 30.
Click to expand...
The "3D Mode" option just changes the point of view of the game to over the shoulder, giving more of a dynamic 3D view than the standard side view. Read back in this thread, we've gone over this time and again.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
Bentendo said:
Konami's new sodoku game looks amazing.


3DS_SUDOKU_05_bmp_jpgcopy by **********_flickr, on Flickr
Click to expand...
Quite the contrast to what was thought in the 2011 releases thead. Plus its not just sudoku...thats apparently Shikaku. Seem to be 4 (maybe 5) games, plus there probably 300 puzzles for each (though 10 are tutorial).

Thing is it could well be recycled content from Hudsons (it was Hudson right) Puzzle Series with eye candy on the top screen. Hopefully they have Slitherlink on it...

I can see people being reluctant to buy it full price or retail becuase that market for puzzle games is kind of dead...though it is in package form (you're getting 4 of them).
 
C

crankypants

Member
Dreamwriter said:
The "3D Mode" option just changes the point of view of the game to over the shoulder, giving more of a dynamic 3D view than the standard side view. Read back in this thread, we've gone over this time and again.
Click to expand...

I'm one of the few people in this thread that's actually played the final US version of the game. There are two 3D option switches -- one, over the shoulder. two, turn off the stereoscopic 3D entirely, making the slider useless.
 
B

Bentendo

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
Quite the contrast to what was thought in the 2011 releases thead. Plus its not just sudoku...thats apparently Shikaku. Seem to be 4 (maybe 5) games, plus there probably 300 puzzles for each (though 10 are tutorial).

Thing is it could well be recycled content from Hudsons (it was Hudson right) Puzzle Series with eye candy on the top screen. Hopefully they have Slitherlink on it...

I can see people being reluctant to buy it full price or retail becuase that market for puzzle games is kind of dead...though it is in package form (you're getting 4 of them).
Click to expand...

I think you're right about Hudson developing it. Here's another image that pretty much confirms it (will this be the first "Bomberman game" published by Konami?):

5488977019_8d3f87b42c.jpg
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
crankypants said:
I'm one of the few people in this thread that's actually played the final US version of the game. There are two 3D option switches -- one, over the shoulder. two, turn off the stereoscopic 3D entirely, making the slider useless.
Click to expand...
A few people here have played the final Japanese version, and taken videos. It runs at 60fps in 3D with the slider all the way.
 
Balboa

Balboa

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
Nintendo seem to crappy with dummy boxes before release as in retailer makes thier own. All the kirby ones I saw were black DVD cases and usually the US boxart with a wrong aspect ratio PEGI 3+ pasted over the ESRB rating.

As for the 3DS cases. The ones I saw in gamesation were probably retail mock ups (forgot to look at back). The spines were like standard DS only with the triangles missing, the game icon was missing too. From the Super Street Fighter 4 boxart NOE showed on Facebook (with the 3D effect so visible spine) the triangle is the wrong way round, there is naff game icon (oddly enough it was M.Bison's face which is different to what we see above) and the game logo instead of spine text.

In short, let's wait 3 weeks. Unless the ones you saw had proper spines like I described.
Click to expand...
The spines did look like standard DS with the plain text and no artwork, I think I saw a triangle though except I'm sure it was pink or maybe orange, honestly I don't remember it well enough to come to any conclusion so yeah just going to wait and see.
 
F

Fernando Rocker

Banned
Two Tribes (the guys who did Toki Tori for WiiWare) wants your opinion for their next 3DS game.

What should we make for 3DS?

We've got our 3DS development kits ready, waiting to be fired up, but what shall we make? Besides Toki Tori that is. ;)
What should we make for 3DS?

The 3DS has just been released in Japan and it seems to be off to a good start, selling 400.000 units on the first day of release. In a few months, a download service will be added for 3DS players to purchase new games from. Since we’ve gone download-only in recent years, that’s probably where our first 3DS games will end up.

When trying to launch a game early in a console’s lifespan, it’s difficult to predict what its audience will like. This was especially the case with DS and Wii, and we don’t expect it to be any easier when it comes to the 3DS. While this uncertainty troubles bigger developers/publishers, it also means there is a lot of room for experimentation. Early adopters will be looking for something great to justify the price of their shiny new hardware and are very open to new experiences. The only thing that’s sure at this point is that those early adopters will largely be made out of long-time Nintendo fans.

So my question to you is: “What should we make for 3DS?”

Link here (Facebook Login).
 
D

dvolovets

Member
The Street Fighter 60 FPS vs. 30 FPS talk is way too confusing. All I care about is whether it runs at 60 FPS in 2D mode. All signs point to that being the case, so I'm not worried about anything else. :)
 
K

ksamedi

Member
Fernando Rocker said:
Two Tribes (the guys who did Toki Tori for WiiWare) wants your opinion for their next 3DS game.

What should we make for 3DS?

We've got our 3DS development kits ready, waiting to be fired up, but what shall we make? Besides Toki Tori that is. ;)
What should we make for 3DS?

The 3DS has just been released in Japan and it seems to be off to a good start, selling 400.000 units on the first day of release. In a few months, a download service will be added for 3DS players to purchase new games from. Since we’ve gone download-only in recent years, that’s probably where our first 3DS games will end up.

When trying to launch a game early in a console’s lifespan, it’s difficult to predict what its audience will like. This was especially the case with DS and Wii, and we don’t expect it to be any easier when it comes to the 3DS. While this uncertainty troubles bigger developers/publishers, it also means there is a lot of room for experimentation. Early adopters will be looking for something great to justify the price of their shiny new hardware and are very open to new experiences. The only thing that’s sure at this point is that those early adopters will largely be made out of long-time Nintendo fans.

So my question to you is: “What should we make for 3DS?”

Link here (Facebook Login).
Click to expand...

This is the same as a comedian asking what kind of joke he should make. Really, just surprise us.
 
C

crankypants

Member
Dreamwriter said:
Are you saying they photoshopped those videos or something? That people who bought full retail 3DS's and the full retail games were lying or all mistaken?
Click to expand...

Probably more being mistaken than lying. I just got off a whirlwind tour of playing every US launch title for several hours each. I don't like playing the "know it all" game, but I consider myself pretty darn good at the 60 vs. 30 game.

Street Fighter IV definitely has a flashy character selection interface that runs at 60 FPS during stereoscopic 3D, no question. Once in the fight, if stereo 3D is on, the fight is at 30...even if, mid-fight, the slider is turned to OFF.

However, there's a menu option in the main menu that you can turn 3D to OFF. This deactivates the slider (the 3D light goes out), and the fights run at 60 FPS without stereoscopic 3D.

Believe who you want to believe, but hopefully when you actually play the games for yourself, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
crankypants said:
Probably more being mistaken than lying. I just got off a whirlwind tour of playing every US launch title for several hours each. I don't like playing the "know it all" game, but I consider myself pretty darn good at the 60 vs. 30 game.

Street Fighter IV definitely has a flashy character selection interface that runs at 60 FPS during stereoscopic 3D, no question. Once in the fight, if stereo 3D is on, the fight is at 30...even if, mid-fight, the slider is turned to OFF.

However, there's a menu option in the main menu that you can turn 3D to OFF. This deactivates the slider (the 3D light goes out), and the fights run at 60 FPS without stereoscopic 3D.

Believe who you want to believe, but hopefully when you actually play the games for yourself, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
I'll believe my eyes which already saw the videos, and the people who have spent hours with final retail copies of games.
 
C

crankypants

Member
I just want to see who's processing YouTube videos at 60 FPS. When I was at IGN, it was like pulling teeth trying to get the video team to give me that ability.
 
U

UncleSporky

Member
marc^o^ said:
Same impressions than in the March issue.
Click to expand...
Also they kind of suck. "This game plays exactly the way you would expect, and the 3D effect is nice." Copy, paste, post old screenshots, article's done.
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
crankypants said:
I'm one of the few people in this thread that's actually played the final US version of the game. There are two 3D option switches -- one, over the shoulder. two, turn off the stereoscopic 3D entirely, making the slider useless.
Click to expand...
This is contrary to every report out there from journalists and players.

I guess I'll have to see when I get it.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Dreamwriter said:
I'll believe my eyes which already saw the videos, and the people who have spent hours with final retail copies of games.
Click to expand...

Where are the 60fps videos, other than the single direct-feed one Capcom released back in January?
 
E

Effect

Member
Father_Brain said:
Where are the 60fps videos, other than the single direct-feed one Capcom released back in January?
Click to expand...

Not on Youtube that's for sure. Which is where most of the video we've seen comes from. You can only get 30 fps on there no matter what the original video is I believe. If that were changed I think this discussion would be over as we'd really know. I think someone has to host a video of the game that can be streamed or simply downloaded to put an end to all of this.
 
C

crankypants

Member
dallow_bg said:
This is contrary to every report out there from journalists and players.

I guess I'll have to see when I get it.
Click to expand...

Please do! I've been covering handheld games for over a decade so I kind of know what to look for when I'm going into an extensive hands-on. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

But I'm not wrong.
 
H

HotGarbage

Member
Effect said:
Not on Youtube that's for sure. Which is where most of the video we've seen comes from. You can only get 30 fps on there no matter what the original video is I believe.
Click to expand...
This is true. As such I'm not sure how anyone could tell the fps of a game from a youtube video. Didn't we have this same deal with OoT? People thought it was 60fps off some videos only to be dissapointed when they played the game irl.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Sometimes, 60fps games do have a sort of telltale motion blur when captured offscreen at 30fps. But I wouldn't pronounce any definitive judgment based on that.

(For those who don't know: crankypants is Craig Harris, who headed IGN's Nintendo handheld coverage for over a decade. Pretty sure he knows his stuff, though I wish he were wrong in this case.)
 
G

Glix

Member
crankypants said:
Probably more being mistaken than lying. I just got off a whirlwind tour of playing every US launch title for several hours each. I don't like playing the "know it all" game, but I consider myself pretty darn good at the 60 vs. 30 game.

Street Fighter IV definitely has a flashy character selection interface that runs at 60 FPS during stereoscopic 3D, no question. Once in the fight, if stereo 3D is on, the fight is at 30...even if, mid-fight, the slider is turned to OFF.

However, there's a menu option in the main menu that you can turn 3D to OFF. This deactivates the slider (the 3D light goes out), and the fights run at 60 FPS without stereoscopic 3D.

Believe who you want to believe, but hopefully when you actually play the games for yourself, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I'll eat the crow if/when I have to. But I will believe every other thing I have read about the game, and the videos I have seen, over your "whirlwind tour of every US 3DS game", sorry.

Were they even final retail builds, this early?
 
B

Boney

Banned
So seeing that SF has one frame links, and this version supposedely is "the same" as the other versions, what does it mean for the links. Double the time for the links?
 
U

UncleSporky

Member
Father_Brain said:
Sometimes, 60fps games do have a sort of telltale motion blur when captured offscreen at 30fps. But I wouldn't pronounce any definitive judgment based on that.
Click to expand...
Right, it's possible to tell 60 on a 30 video because it's extremely unlikely that the devices synchronize to the exact same frame rate. You can examine blur/tearing frame by frame and get a pretty good impression of what you're seeing.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Glix said:
I'll eat the crow if/when I have to. But I will believe every other thing I have read about the game, and the videos I have seen
Click to expand...

Again: What videos? There's only one 60fps video of the game that I've seen, and it's direct-feed, so it neither proves nor disproves what Craig said. If there are others, please direct us to them.
 
G

GameE

Member
You can't send messages to friends, right? I thought I remember reading on Siliconera recently that it was possible, but I haven't heard anything about it.
 
D

donkey show

Member
crankypants is right. We're all mistaken. =P

Just confirmed it in my office restroom, heh. SSFIV definitely runs at 60fps, but only if you turn off the stereoscopic 3D option in the options menu. Like crankypants said, it turns off the 3D slider function and you no longer see the green 3D indicator lit up next to the slider:

nNOu2.jpg


You’ll definitely notice it’s running 60fps right off the bat from the intros when that option is set to off. Both “2D” and “over the shoulder” (which happens to be called 3D mode) run in 60fps when the stereoscopic 3D is turned off.

I thought my eyes were trippin’ due to playing in 3D for so long, but when the stereoscopic 3D is set to on (which is the default setting), it runs at 30fps during gameplay, even when you turn the slider to 0.

Tl;dr
Default settings with stereoscopic 3D on in the options menu, gameplay at 30 fps in both 2D and over the shoulder, regardless of what level the 3D slider is set to.

Turn off stereoscopic 3D in the options menu (not the arcade mode options, 3D slider does not work): 60fps gameplay in both 2D and over the shoulder mode

That should settle it. =P

And for those of you who asked about links, I can still do them at 30fps without sacrificing timing, which is probably why I didn't question the 60fps thing that much before.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Well, that's disappointing, though it explains all the conflicting reports thus far. Hopefully, as we get further from launch, developers will get better at optimizing for 60fps in 3D. I'd be pretty fucking appalled if Mario Kart runs at 30.

plainr_ said:
So the 3D slider isn't so dynamic after all?
Click to expand...

No, Capcom just chose a clumsier implementation of the 2D/3D framerate switch than Team Ninja did, for whatever reason.
 
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