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[Stephen Colbert]

Two Tribes (the guys who did Toki Tori for WiiWare) wants your opinion for their next 3DS game.

What should we make for 3DS?

We've got our 3DS development kits ready, waiting to be fired up, but what shall we make? Besides Toki Tori that is.
What should we make for 3DS?

The 3DS has just been released in Japan and it seems to be off to a good start, selling 400.000 units on the first day of release. In a few months, a download service will be added for 3DS players to purchase new games from. Since we’ve gone download-only in recent years, that’s probably where our first 3DS games will end up.

When trying to launch a game early in a console’s lifespan, it’s difficult to predict what its audience will like. This was especially the case with DS and Wii, and we don’t expect it to be any easier when it comes to the 3DS. While this uncertainty troubles bigger developers/publishers, it also means there is a lot of room for experimentation. Early adopters will be looking for something great to justify the price of their shiny new hardware and are very open to new experiences. The only thing that’s sure at this point is that those early adopters will largely be made out of long-time Nintendo fans.

So my question to you is: “What should we make for 3DS?”

Link here (Facebook Login).

My favorite entries from your facebook page.

Make a multiplayer combat game akin to Smash Brothers or Powerstone. Both became cult classics and quite sucessful.
JAMES, TUESDAY MARCH 1 2011, 20:29

Magic the Gathering or similar game.
RICHARD BORGMAN, TUESDAY MARCH 1 2011, 20:29

Make a tight fast paced platformer. Basically a Super Mario Bros spiritual sucessor.

Release this game (or the Smash Brothers/Powerstone type game) on multiple consoles and handhelds. It will sell millions if done well. An fast tight platformer like Mario or Megaman appeals to both casual and hardcore gamers.

God knows the NGP/360/PS3 all need a platformer that can compete with New Super Mario Bros, a racer that can compete with Mario Kart and a fighter that can take on Smash Bros.

You could also make a easy to control RTS taking advantage of the 3ds and Ngp's touchscreens. It could be something serious and complex like Starcraft or something simple and cute akin to Pikmin but featuring Toki Toris!
JAMES, TUESDAY MARCH 1 2011, 20:48

Another favorite...

But maybe your "turn to 3D" could be expanded to another genre than puzzle? I'm pretty sure the rail-shooter genre will be be milked dry soon enough.. How about a Racing game? Or a platformer? Toki Tori is cute enough to expand Mario-style.
MART KOK, TUESDAY MARCH 1 2011, 19:15

 

[crankypants]

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to checking it out, Donkey Show!

Now, the second fight: Ridge Racer 3D 30 vs. 60. (hint: it's 30 (with a hint of framerate drop in the more complex tracks and when the speed boost is active), regardless of stereo 3D on or off).

Seriously: of all the launch titles, the only stereo 3D 60fps game using a 3D engine is Monkey Ball's arcade mode. The Monkey Fight part does too, but only in single player -- link multiplayer and the framerate drops to 30. Monkey Racing is 30 in single and multiplayer, stereo or non-stereo.

 

[Izayoi]

So is 3d mode locked in 30fps? I mean, it could be more right? just not 60.

The screen itself is capable of 60FPS in 3D mode, it's just a matter of developers taking advantage of that.

 

[UncleSporky]

Can't be a very big problem if nobody noticed for this long.

 

[mrklaw]

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to checking it out, Donkey Show!

Now, the second fight: Ridge Racer 3D 30 vs. 60. (hint: it's 30 (with a hint of framerate drop in the more complex tracks and when the speed boost is active), regardless of stereo 3D on or off).

Seriously: of all the launch titles, the only stereo 3D 60fps game using a 3D engine is Monkey Ball's arcade mode. The Monkey Fight part does too, but only in single player -- link multiplayer and the framerate drops to 30. Monkey Racing is 30 in single and multiplayer, stereo or non-stereo.

does it matter (IYO)? I guess its early days, but do you expect most titles moving forward to be similar - 30fps in 3D? Seems like a trade-off that most home console games have used to get richer environments, and the 3DS could probably use everything its got to make games look nice coming up against the NGP soon. So will 60fps be a rarity?

 

[donkey show]

Can't be a very big problem if nobody noticed for this long.

Gameplay wise, it isn't. People will complain about links and stuff, but performing them isn't affected by the 30fps drop, at least from my experience so far.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

crankypants is right. We're all mistaken. =P

Just confirmed it in my office restroom, heh. SSFIV definitely runs at 60fps, but only if you turn off the stereoscopic 3D option in the options menu. Like crankypants said, it turns off the 3D slider function and you no longer see the green 3D indicator lit up next to the slider:

You’ll definitely notice it’s running 60fps right off the bat from the intros when that option is set to off. Both “2D” and “over the shoulder” (which happens to be called 3D mode) run in 60fps when the stereoscopic 3D is turned off.

I thought my eyes were trippin’ due to playing in 3D for so long, but when the stereoscopic 3D is set to on (which is the default setting), it runs at 30fps during gameplay, even when you turn the slider to 0.

Tl;dr
Default settings with stereoscopic 3D on in the options menu, gameplay at 30 fps in both 2D and over the shoulder, regardless of what level the 3D slider is set to.

Turn off stereoscopic 3D in the options menu (not the arcade mode options, 3D slider does not work): 60fps gameplay in both 2D and over the shoulder mode

That should settle it. =P

And for those of you who asked about links, I can still do them at 30fps without sacrificing timing, which is probably why I didn't question the 60fps thing that much before.

That's a shame, but expected with that level of graphic fidelity (still, I was hoping that the final version would've been improved)

The game still feels good at 30FPS from what I played of it though. I wouldn't call it game breaking in any way (the button inputs no doubt still register at 60FPS internally)

I don't see why they didn't just do it the DOA way and have it switch framerate on the fly when you turn the slider down to off? Would be much less confusing!

Oh and it's not a screen limitation. Super Monkey Ball was definitely running at a rock solid 60FPS in 3D back when I played it a few weeks back, no doubt about it.

 

[dvolovets]

Seriously: of all the launch titles, the only stereo 3D 60fps game using a 3D engine is Monkey Ball's arcade mode. The Monkey Fight part does too, but only in single player -- link multiplayer and the framerate drops to 30. Monkey Racing is 30 in single and multiplayer, stereo or non-stereo.

Hey Craig, are you allowed to post impressions of 3DS games yet? I'm wondering what Monkey Ball is like and whether it's similar to the console versions or the DS/GBA iterations. From the videos I've seen, it seems like the game is smaller in scope and a lot easier due to borders around each course.

 

[Boney]

The screen itself is capable of 60FPS in 3D mode, it's just a matter of developers taking advantage of that.

I meant specifically SF. Oh well it seems that it's 30.

*cue in Amir0x*

Don't expect framerates between 60 and 30...I'm not certain, but I think the LCDs on the 3DS are like past Nintendo handhelds: interlaced. So you'd get really terrible display syncing problems if you go between 60 and 30.

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks a lot dude. And props for clearing out the confusion. And if you can comment, have you had trouble adjusting to the 30 fps mode?

 

[crankypants]

So is 3d mode locked in 30fps? I mean, it could be more right? just not 60.

No, it can display stereo 3D at 60fps. Monkey Ball's challenge mode confirms this...and most "flashy" sprite-based menus like Street Fighter IV's display stereo 3D at 60fps.

As developers get better, framerates will improve (this is, after all, first gen). And the less complex the visuals, the more likely the 60 FPS in stereo 3D.

Don't expect framerates between 60 and 30...I'm not certain, but I think the LCDs on the 3DS are like past Nintendo handhelds: interlaced. So you'd get really terrible display syncing problems if you go between 60 and 30.

 

[- J - D -]

Well, fuck, this is a revelation. Everybody's been giving DoAD shit for its framerate dropping to 30 ever since we got word from Tecmo...but Capcom's guilty of it too this whole time.

AND, DoAD has animated backgrounds. Goddammit.

 

[Kai Dracon]

SFIV runs at 30fps in 3D mode confirmed? Yikes, DoA Dimensions not slacking after all.

... and SFIV got no background animation even though it halves framerate in 3D. Ah, launch games

 

[crankypants]

Hey Craig, are you allowed to post impressions of 3DS games yet? I'm wondering what Monkey Ball is like and whether it's similar to the console versions or the DS/GBA iterations. From the videos I've seen, it seems like the game is smaller in scope and a lot easier due to borders around each course.

Super Monkey Ball 3D's difficulty has been lowered a bit, absolutely. It's not a cakewalk, but it's not overly frustrating like past versions have been.

That's about all I can say about the game this far away from its release...hit me up again when we're closer to March 27th.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

No, it can display stereo 3D at 60fps. Monkey Ball's challenge mode confirms this...and most "flashy" sprite-based menus like Street Fighter IV's display stereo 3D at 60fps.

As developers get better, framerates will improve (this is, after all, first gen). And the less complex the visuals, the more likely the 60 FPS in stereo 3D.

Don't expect framerates between 60 and 30...I'm not certain, but I think the LCDs on the 3DS are like past Nintendo handhelds: interlaced. So you'd get really terrible display syncing problems if you go between 60 and 30.

BTW I don't suppose you've got the final version of Pilotwings Resort? Can you confirm 30 or 60FPS? (also, I don't suppose that the title screen or credits can confirm whether or not the rumours about NST developing Pilotwings are true?)

 

[donkey show]

SFIV runs at 30fps in 3D mode confirmed? Yikes, DoA Dimensions not slacking after all.

... and SFIV got no background animation even though it halves framerate in 3D. Ah, launch games

When the stereoscopic 3D option in the options menu is turned on (which is the default setting), yes... 30fps regardless if the slider is full or null.

 

[YourMaster]

Two Tribes

So my question to you is: “What should we make for 3DS?”

Link here (Facebook Login).

I'd say something like "Future Tactics". It's unlike anything announced for the 3DS so far, I think it would fit the 3DS like a glove and think it would be something up your alley.
Turn based is always a good match for any handheld, and this game more then most others would benefit from the 3D.

 

[UncleSporky]

BTW I don't suppose you've got the final version of Pilotwings Resort? Can you confirm 30 or 60FPS? (also, I don't suppose that the title screen or credits can confirm whether or not the rumours about NST developing Pilotwings are true?)

Man that kind of stuff doesn't even matter about Pilotwings, we need to know whether there are more than three vehicles and whether there's a significant amount of new areas to fly around in vs. Wii Sports Resort.

 

[crankypants]

BTW I don't suppose you've got the final version of Pilotwings Resort? Can you confirm 30 or 60FPS? (also, I don't suppose that the title screen or credits can confirm whether or not the rumours about NST developing Pilotwings are true?)

The version I played was running at 30, definitely. I don't know anything about the developer, so if it's NST that's news to me.

I'll be bumping into Nintendo chums at GDC this week so I'll be sure to ask.

 

[Effect]

Has anyone posted a list of the SSF4 menu/modes?

This video shows the DoA modes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd4fBkmnxpw Trying to compare.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The version I played was running at 30, definitely. I don't know anything about the developer, so if it's NST that's news to me.

I'll be bumping into Nintendo chums at GDC this week so I'll be sure to ask.

When I was playing it it was mostly running at 30FPS but seemed to sometimes briefly stutter between 60 and 30 for a brief moment or two every now and again in both 2D and 3D (switching between the two seemed to make no difference in framerate)

I'm wondering whether or not they're trying to hit 60FPS for the final one or if they'll just lock it at 30FPS. Not a big deal either way really, but 60FPS would be nice.

 

[Gahiggidy]

That image was th inspiration for this very awesome gif:

First time seeing that one.

 

[crankypants]

The one thing I'm noticing about this thread: people seem to think that cranking up the 3D to full instead of only a little affects the battery life.

It's true that turning on the 3D will add more drain since you're turning on both displays and forcing the processor to calculate for both displays. But it doesn't matter where that switch is pushed. Once it's on, even at 1 percent, the power drain is the same as if it's at 100 percent. The slider switch is just adjusting the spread of the two displays for a stronger or weaker 3D effect.

 

[FoneBone]

The one thing I'm noticing about this thread: people seem to think that cranking up the 3D to full instead of only a little affects the battery life.

That's more silliness coming from people who can't grasp that the slider is a software command. Expect a lot more over the next few weeks.

 

[donkey show]

The one thing I'm noticing about this thread: people seem to think that cranking up the 3D to full instead of only a little affects the battery life.

It's true that turning on the 3D will add more drain since you're turning on both displays and forcing the processor to calculate for both displays. But it doesn't matter where that switch is pushed. Once it's on, even at 1 percent, the power drain is the same as if it's at 100 percent. The slider switch is just adjusting the spread of the two displays for a stronger or weaker 3D effect.

We've discussed that 3D either on or off in regards to power consumption, well a couple pages back. I'm sure we'll see more misconceptions as we get closer to launch. At least we can debunk them now. ^^

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The one thing I'm noticing about this thread: people seem to think that cranking up the 3D to full instead of only a little affects the battery life.

It's true that turning on the 3D will add more drain since you're turning on both displays and forcing the processor to calculate for both displays. But it doesn't matter where that switch is pushed. Once it's on, even at 1 percent, the power drain is the same as if it's at 100 percent. The slider switch is just adjusting the spread of the two displays for a stronger or weaker 3D effect.

I said as much myself before. Most people here seem to think of it as if it were the same as sound volume.

Can't really blame them considering how the depth slider is fashioned after the look and feel of an analog sound volume slider. It's natural really (and it's another communication problem that Nintendo will need to solve, or else people will complain about having to deal with 3D viewing problems as they think they are increasing battery life)

 

[Magicpaint]

Well, that's disappointing, though it explains all the conflicting reports thus far. Hopefully, as we get further from launch, developers will get better at optimizing for 60fps in 3D. I'd be pretty fucking appalled if Mario Kart runs at 30.

Hopefully not! Give me fugly 'F-Zero X' style graphical downgrade for the 60 fps treatment. 30 fps for Mario Kart is not acceptable.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

What should we make for 3DS?

So my question to you is: “What should we make for 3DS?”

Link here (Facebook Login).

Going thru the "why the DS rocks" thread to get ideas, I feel like there is an oversaturation of quality Puzzle games, RPGs, turn based games, shooters, and action/adventure games on the DS and the 3ds already looks like it will follow suit. That's why I would probably stay away from those genres if I was a developer and why I'm partial to the suggestions for quality games that are...

RTSs
Party Fighters (Smash Bros, Jump!)
2D Platformers (New Super Mario Bros, 2D Mega Man)
Casual/Fun Racers (Mario Kart, Wave Race)

I feel these are very popular genres that few devs outside of Nintendo put the effort into doing and doing well. There is a lot of untapped potential in games that are both deep and fun at the same time, and only Nintendo really capitalizes on this.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

Maybe they will announce a Netflix 3D app... this event seems to be perfect for this kind of announcement.

I just read this. (Thanks to Go Nintendo and Andriasang).

Yomiuri asked about Nintendo's plans for video downloads. "The 3DS will be the first 3D video playback device to reach major penetration," said Iwata. "We've had many proposals from the film, music and such industries. We're looking into distributing Hollywood trailers and movies, along with things like 3D reference software."

Link.


Is that interview thread worthy? I can't make threads (Junior Member) but if you guys think this is thread worthy, make the thread and give me credit!

 

[plagiarize]

The version I played was running at 30, definitely. I don't know anything about the developer, so if it's NST that's news to me.

I'll be bumping into Nintendo chums at GDC this week so I'll be sure to ask.

we've got one who can see.

awesome. i can put you on my list of people to trust about framerate impressions along with Dark10x. it's amazing how often people can't tell 30 from 60 (or 50 from 60 even). i can, and i'm sick of seeing impressions on a game that say it has stable frame rate and then finding that the copy i bought somehow magically *doesn't*.

it's good to know who to trust on this.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

While it's disappointing that no-one - yet - seems to have managed to nail 60fps/3D, I wouldn't mind a compromise from devs along the lines of:

• Locked 30fps w. 3D on, or:
• Locked 60fps w. 3D off.

Present it to me as an option in the game settings, and I can choose whether to sacrifice framerate for effect or vice versa, depending on my personal preference (or on my preference for that particular session).

I already do something similar with PC games, deciding whether to up the eyecandy at the expense of higher framerates or whether to drop AA etc. for a solid 60+fps.

Of course, I'm not going to start crying if - as the second wave of 3DS titles hits - more devs manage to nail 60fps with 3D on... ;-)

 

[ombz]

Maybe they will announce a Netflix 3D app... this event seems to be perfect for this kind of announcement.

I just read this. (Thanks to Go Nintendo and Andriasang).



Link.


Is that interview thread worthy? I can't make threads (Junior Member) but if you guys think this is thread worthy, make the thread and give me credit!

Does currently Netflix offer 3D content?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

are you guys really that sad that you cannot enjoy a game without knowing its framerate?

 

[Father_Brain]

Does currently Netflix offer 3D content?

Nope. A YouTube app would make far more sense, especially as support for one 3D mobile device has already been announced.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

The version I played was running at 30, definitely. I don't know anything about the developer, so if it's NST that's news to me.

I'll be bumping into Nintendo chums at GDC this week so I'll be sure to ask.

Don't really care much about 30 vs 60 fps, but I just wanted to say, I always loved reding your work. Thank you for that.

 

[plagiarize]

are you guys really that sad that you cannot enjoy a game without knowing its framerate?

for me on certain types of games if the framerate is below X i cannot enjoy that game no matter how hard i try. i wish it wasn't the case for me, but it is. comes from high end pc gaming i think.

couldn't enjoy ocarina of time or shadow of the colossus for their 20 fps ish framerates. couldn't enjoy castlevania that just came out.

racing games have a much better sense of speed, and tighter controls at 60 fps. any thing fast paced, 60 fps makes a huge difference. slow paced stuff, i have little issues with 30, but once it drops below a certain level... yeah, i can't enjoy it.

so i absolutely need to know yes.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Maybe they will announce a Netflix 3D app... this event seems to be perfect for this kind of announcement.

I just read this. (Thanks to Go Nintendo and Andriasang).



Link.


Is that interview thread worthy? I can't make threads (Junior Member) but if you guys think this is thread worthy, make the thread and give me credit!

Sounds like a revision featuring a bigger top screen akin to the DSi is a surething given that quote. I don't see 3d video playback holding much appeal on a tiny screen.

 

[rosjos44]

Which game is prettier for the 3DS. SFIV or DOA?

 

[plagiarize]

Which game is prettier for the 3DS. SFIV or DOA?

we don't really know yet.

Spoiler

DOA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

we've got one who can see.

awesome. i can put you on my list of people to trust about framerate impressions along with Dark10x. it's amazing how often people can't tell 30 from 60 (or 50 from 60 even). i can, and i'm sick of seeing impressions on a game that say it has stable frame rate and then finding that the copy i bought somehow magically *doesn't*.

it's good to know who to trust on this.

Hey hey don't forget about meeee!!!

I have The Eye as well you know!

Name a game (that I've actually played) and I can tell you its framerate.

For instance: Metal Gear Solid 2 = 60FPS

Metal Gear Solid 3 = 30FPS

Both games have large framerate drops during certain cutscenes.

Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 = 60FPS

Super Mario Sunshine = 30FPS

OoT 3DS = 30FPS

OoT N64 = 24FPS (PAL version = 19FPS Yuck!)

 

[- J - D -]

Ridge Racer 3D is 30 FPS in both 3D and 2D modes.

What?! Namco what kind of BS is this? How could it not run in 60fps even in 2d mode when your game looks like it belongs on PSP?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I think framerate sensitivity is a brain thing, it seems to vary on how much coffee I've drunk or something.

 

[plagiarize]

Hey hey don't forget about meeee!!!

I have The Eye as well you know!

Name a game (that I've actually played) and I can tell you its framerate.

For instance: Metal Gear Solid 2 = 60FPS

Metal Gear Solid 3 = 30FPS

Both games have large framerate drops during certain cutscenes.

Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 = 60FPS

Super Mario Sunshine = 30FPS

OoT 3DS = 30FPS

OoT N64 = 24FPS (PAL version = 19FPS Yuck!)

have you played silent hill origins on PSP?

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

OoT 3DS = 30FPS

uhh that was in 3D right?

Spoiler

pleeeease

 

[rosjos44]

we don't really know yet.

Spoiler

DOA!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'm going to get DOA because I think that fighter should be supported more than SSF because it actually was built from the ground up on 3DS.

 

[plagiarize]

uhh that was in 3D right?

Spoiler

pleeeease

yes, seemingly so.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

have you played silent hill origins on PSP?

Nope, fraid not.

If you're wondering about seeing framerate spikes, yes I can see them.

Metal Gear Solid 4: Mostly 30FPS, with occasional spikes to 60FPS when facing up next to walls.

Perfect Dark N64 actually jumps to near 60FPS as well when you face a wall in the Carrington Institute training area as well (oh and the XBLA version still has some, surprisingly noticeable, framerate drops in 4 player splitscreen multiplayer sometimes)

There's nothing wrong with a solid 30FPS at all. 60FPS isn't always a better choice (Zelda benefits mores from additional graphical detail than 60FPS IMO)

uhh that was in 3D right?

Spoiler

pleeeease

30FPS in both 2D and 3D. Looks lovely!

 

[Boney]

I think I'm going to get DOA because I think that fighter should be supported more than SSF because it actually was built from the ground up on 3DS.

DOA isn't exactly built "from the ground up"

 

[Stephen Colbert]

If Nintendo really wants 3D video viewing to take off, a revision featuring a bigger top screen akin to the DSi is something they should consider (would give them the chance to take more cues from the DSi and make the system less ugly and give it one consistent color/tone throughout and get rid of the cheap plasticy look as well).

As the owner of both an iPhone 4 and the Dell Slate, I can say confidently that there isn't much pleasure to be had watching movies on a 3.5 inch screen, but a 4.5 or 5 inch feels like heaven.

Could someone calculate how big they can make the top screen by reducing the bezel and without making the 3ds any bigger?

 

[plagiarize]

I think I'm going to get DOA because I think that fighter should be supported more than SSF because it actually was built from the ground up on 3DS.

i really hope it still has my favourite character and the best unlockable costume.

Spoiler

Elliot in his bondage outfit. SO FUNNY TO PLAY ONLINE WITH THIS.

now that it appears to be the technically more proficient title, waiting for it seems to be the way to go. i believe it makes use of all the same funtionality of the 3DS (not certain if it doesn't anything with play coins), so unless you hate an easy to get into fighter with nicely interactive stages, i see it as the one to get personally.

 

[plagiarize]

Nope, fraid not.

If you're wondering about seeing framerate spikes, yes I can see them.

Metal Gear Solid 4: Mostly 30FPS, with occasional spikes to 60FPS when facing up next to walls.

Perfect Dark N64 actually jumps to near 60FPS as well when you face a wall in the Carrington Institute training area as well (oh and the XBLA version still has some, surprisingly noticeable, framerate drops in 4 player splitscreen multiplayer sometimes)

There's nothing wrong with a solid 30FPS at all. 60FPS isn't always a better choice (Zelda benefits mores from additional graphical detail than 60FPS IMO)




30FPS in both 2D and 3D. Looks lovely!

you pass. here is a cookie.

for the record, origins gets called 60 fps all the goddamn time, but it's only 60 if you're running about inside with your flashlight turned off and seriously who does that in a silent hill game?