Nintendo @ E3 - No Direct, Just Zelda Treehouse Stream
- Thread starter Lucifon
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Hrm, good question! I don't have a copy of Hyrule Historia but I wonder if the answer lays in there.
About the Temple of Time being the name of the area which houses the Master Sword. There are a couple of things going on with the TOT in Twilight Princess. First, its ruins are indeed where the Master Sword is located. Second, it serves another purpose as well in the game. When you activate the door to the past, you can travel to the ancient Temple of Time, and inside is a recreation of the OOT TOT. The OTOT, perhaps we can call it.
But, yeah, this recreated OTOT is definitely meant to look identical to the original OTOT. Behind one of the stained glass panels in the Master Sword room lays the entrance to the TOT dungeon in Twilight Princess.I think there are at least two reasonable theories here. One, the OTOT was eventually rebuilt, and its successor was made to look like the OTOT as much as possible. That successor is the TOT we enter in Twilgiht Princess. Two, the OTOT itself somehow was moved by the sages to guard its location. The Sacred Grove in OOT matches its map location in Twilight Princess, i.e. just past the Lost Woods area and in the SE of the map. It seems OTOT was moved by the sages to nearby the OOT Forest Temple, just as this game's Forest Temple is near the same locations (not that I think the two FTs are the same place). Or, if not moved, a replica was rebuilt there. That's my best explanation.
As to announcing more Wii U games to be released this year: Trev's leak indicated there would only be one, and it seems that was Paper Mario: Color Splash. I would be astonished if they bothered with another, with the focus for future games sensibly on NX at this point.
As to "Anyways, everyone seems to be taking it for granted that we won't be seeing any new unannounced games (like that Gamexplain video) but it's pretty likely that they'll be announcing something new for the 3DS at least, based on Trev's leak back in February. Also likely Mother 3 on VC" (just quoting you here out of laziness): we don't have a formal Digital Event or Direct Nintendo can use to easily make announcements. We also don't have some future games like Fed Force or Color Splash seemingly present. So it seems they decided or planned (up for debate at this point) to show some other games also in the stream, and those specific key first party titles weren't available for another showing yet, so I suspect one of two things will happen. Well, first, I believe Mother 3 will be announced as a casual announcement during the Treehouse streams, since I imagine that's an eShop release only. But as to the two theories, I suspect we will either see a PR release announcing N-Stars with a trailer (that's the codename we have for the remaining unannounced Trev leak 3DS game, and it points to being a Mario Party game of some sort potentially, based on past similar codenames for MP games, and additionally there's been some speculation that the game will have an amiibo focus) or that it will be announced in the next Direct, likely within a month or so after E3 if I had to guess at this point. At that point I expect more footage of Color Splash, confirmation of Picross 3D2 and BOX BOY 2!, and no other retail announcements for first party 3DS games this year.
That formula would put it closer to majora's mask (and similar to wind waker's 6) but with even more stuff to do in between. Hopefully it's optional HOW you do the in between stuff. I assume the in-between mini dungeons unlock items required to enter the major dungeons. Could be neat.
People will DEFINITELY complain though, as some people measure zelda games by total number of dungeons/bosses. If some of the mini dungeons have bosses and the total content measures up to match at least ocarina (ideally twilight princess) if not surpass them, then I don't think anyone should complain :/
Sounds great. 4 dungeons worked excellently from MM, as georly said above.
I doubt they will be generic caves with nothing of substance. Well, it depends I guess on what you mean by generic. I imagine they will offer various sorts of rewards, but the fun will be in the diverse mini-dungeon puzzle areas themselves, as we saw in LBW.
(Is there a written summary of this rumor somewhere?)
Probably will be. There's no way Zelda U is going to be anything remarkable because there's open world games out there have gone above and beyond what Zelda is capable of. Even when Skyward Sword came out, it was beat by Xenoblade Chronicles.
2 of my favorite things in twilight princess were the 2 maze caves that basically only had Poes and heart pieces, but they made me FEEL like I was exploring a cave, so I enjoyed them quite a bit. Majora's mask had a maze cave off of ikana canyon that was sweet, too. I hope we get a handful of them.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah, fuck this game I know nothing about.
If I understand correctly, you're saying Zelda cannot be remarkable because OWGs have offered beyond what Zelda is capable of. But, we don't know what this Zelda is capable of unless you mean technologically, i.e. PS/X/PC-type games. But their being generic or not has nothing to do with that. There are many different scenarios where what Zelda can offer is surprising or different than other previous games, despite technology and despite other OWGs being made before.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by capable of. Beyond technology-wise, any unreleased game is capable of anything.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
If its 4 dungeons they better be huge dungeons that look like one area from the last guardian. And the world being so open if you had a flying buddy you can fly right out the dungeon into the sky and see the whole world. Boy I hope one dungeon you can see the sky and the grassfields and oceans and rivers in the overworld inside of it..boy
Who knows if they'd be huge, but I imagine they'd be of impressive size if they were to be the only main dungeons after these delays. Presumably the main world itself will all feel like one endless series of smaller dungeons, from the sound of this.
Nintendo is definitely setting off to do THEIR take on the open world genre. I really doubt their take is to put skyrim-like caves that lead to some gold/weapons and maybe a note or something.
Here's hoping nintendo brings something new and fresh to the open world genre that other people want to copy. I'd say they've had their sweet time to figure something out.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You can already see a cave in The Game Awards footage. When Link gets on Epona it looks like hes coming out of cave or something. Theres fire lit to the side of him looks like some entrance or exit
Dark Cloud
Member
Like why do people say this? Are you. A developer? Do you work at Nintendo? Nintendo ISNT Bethesda. Nobody thinks the same. Wait and see the game first
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Cross-posting from the other thread, I found some minor info (potential lead on Zelda subtitle) via meta data in a file: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206346957&postcount=804
potatohead
Member
Yea this better be a hell of a presentation. I hope for the earliest possible release date... come on Ninty! Do it!
Skittzo0413
Member
Anyone know where this rumor originated?
If it's true, I would imagine the majority of them being optional/side quest related, and it being a very good way for the designers to experiment a bit with puzzles: it essentially frees up level designers to make whatever type of challenge they want, requiring whatever items they want to require, and that could add a really good amount of variety to the game.
Hopefully the incentives are worth it- item upgrades, new equipment, stamps... I really think this will be the most RPG-like Zelda since Zelda 2 if this is the case
Little Monser
Banned
4 dungeons?
1000s mini dungeons?
ummmmmmmmmm hype inflating?????
seriously cannot wait for the presentation next week!!!!!!!!!
1000s mini dungeons?
ummmmmmmmmm hype inflating?????
seriously cannot wait for the presentation next week!!!!!!!!!
ShockingAlberto
Member
Dark Cloud
Member
Lets think about this. 4 BIG dungeons and a ton of smaller ones??
This has my hype through the roof because this could imply a lot a lot of sidequests to do for people in these small dungeons. It can also mean we have a lot to explore and find lots of cool new weapons or items!
This has my hype through the roof because this could imply a lot a lot of sidequests to do for people in these small dungeons. It can also mean we have a lot to explore and find lots of cool new weapons or items!
1. Nintendo will dilute the game by somehow forcing in a pick up and play design. Cutting the game up into bite size segments as to not "overwhelm players".
2. You'll get the same sort of dialogue "the light stones are hidden in these three temples, go there and retrieve them before darkness consumes the land, chosen one."
3. You'll get the same story. Darkness over light. Triforce pieces.
4. You'll get the same locations, Hyrule, Death Mountain, Kakariko Village, etc, because nostalgia.
5. It'll put cheap nostalgic charm first before substance and fresh ideas and design.
tim_pkmn89
Member
It would be like Wind Waker's random islands
yep. I totally agree!
And BTW, regarding this:
I agree with this as well, and I wanted to mention also that completionist times for 3D console Zelda games are as follows:
OOT - 35 - 36 hrs
MM - 28 - 36 hrs
WW - 39 - 64 hrs
TP - 44.5 - 55 hrs
Skyward - 59 hrs
(sourced from HTLB, ranges are for two different versions of games that have been re-released, the discrepancy I think comes from different #s of players playing each game)
(Personally I don't understand how 47 players of TWW: HD averaged 39 hrs for completionist playthroughs whereas 24 players of TWW averaged 64 hrs for the same...I didn't think the Triforce Quest should add that much time; for the latter an avg. main story playthrough took 29 hrs vs. the HD version's 25.5 hrs, but I digress. I just wonder what it is about the original that led to longer play times, are people less patiently willing to sail across many islands and get everything, and using some guides or Miiverse posts instead? Maybe the Miiverse post functionality for the bottles for pics helped people zoom through the Pictograph quest a lot faster. Just surprising to me what a discrepancy there is with that. My gut says a completionist time for TWW, to really see and do everything is generally going to be more than 45 hrs, but maybe I'm misrecalling the scope of the game?)
So my only point here is that Skyward is in fact just as content-packed as Twilight Princess, and much moreso than Ocarina.
This would be too good. Intrigued about how those large dungeons would integrate into the story and the huge open world.
crooked spin
Member
The dude with the cartoony voice says they're second-hand but from a very reliable source.
Skittzo0413
Member
I really doubt there will be a new Wii U game announced, I was sorta making a joke. But the thing is we don't know for sure. Also, while they haven't announced a digital event or direct, that doesn't mean that there won't be pre-made trailers in the Treehouse stream. In fact, I would assume that one of the first things we'll see in the stream is a Zelda U trailer, not just Treehouse folks playing the game. They could for sure drop in new trailers for unannounced games during these streams, likely when they're starting (on day 2 more likely than day 1). Not to get your hopes up though.
Well that's informative!!
I won't press further
Dark Cloud
Member
Lol is the cartoony voice guy Andre?
Plus, it looks like ShockingAlberto knows where it came from. Maybe it was him!
Orniletter
Banned
It's "Nintendo has been making the same games since the 80s"-skypunch.
He doesn't need to know anything about Zelda U to find it inferior to the "compelling narrative and deep gameplay of Fallout 4".
Anyway, Majora's Dungeons were pretty poor by Zelda standards. You can tell how rushed that game was if you put them side by side to what came before and after.
I'm honestly curious if they are going for a more western approach with quest logs, markers and everything (like...say The Witcher 3) or if they are trying their own thing.
I don't doubt the reward aspect, I'm specifically thinking about the actual gameplay elements they fill caves with. Like, is it purely combat based and if so, has the combat system been expanded upon to carry 100+ dungeons filled with enemies?
Are you able to access all / the vast majority of them right away? If so, have they come up with enough ideas to fill 100+ dungeons with interesting gameplay?
Here's an example from Spirit Tracks of what I consider a cave that contains substantial gameplay: Zelda spirit tracks ice skating at slippery station EXPERT LEVEL. I think there are three of those in the game and they get progressively more complex each time. It's basically a minigame based around handling a different set of physics (slippery ice) and this is an example of what constitutes fun to me.
If true that is similar to what was in A Link Between Worlds. You had the normal dungeons but you have a good number of challenge/treasure caves around thew world. Hell getting to some of the dungeons were challenges/dungeons in themselves to a degree. Pretty much all of Death Mountain comes to mind the most. Skyward Sword was like that as well where the ground was something you had to figure out in order to get from one area to the next the first time.
I think those two games, which moved away from the OoT formula the most should give us some clues as to what the new game will do. I'm pretty sure this has been brought up before and I'm just repeating what's been said during this thread.
I just hope I'm not going through areas just to get 20 rupees. I really dislike that BS.
Speaking of which I've decided to start playing A Link Between Worlds again. I only recently remembered that game has a Hero mode that was unlocked when you beat the game and haven't been back to it since then.
Rösti;206347397 said:
Nice find, thank you. perhaps the U King will be for the U version. And the NX King will be the subtitle for the NX version. *tears of joy emoji* I say this in jest, of course, but I'd love to know the in-game explanation if the system title ended up in the name (I realize that won't happen, but it would amuse me greatly if it did).
ShockingAlberto
Member
To be super clear because I need to do that now: I do not know the veracity of this rumor. I do not know if it is true. I am not in any way espousing it or repeating it or saying "I heard this!" or anything like that.
I just know where it came from and that video is not the (possibly correct or incorrect) source.
I just know where it came from and that video is not the (possibly correct or incorrect) source.
If the 4 dungeon thing is true, I think they could be made so that you can't necessarily progress all the way through them when you discover them. Instead of all the major items being first introduced in the dungeon where you need them, they could very well be in a mini-dungeon somewhere. Then you might have to return to a main dungeon once you realize you can make progress. The DS games both had a major dungeon that you kept returning to throughout the game.
There's no way, huh? You've played the game all the way through? You know what Zelda is and isn't capable of? Share your knowledge with us!
If it's anything like past zelda games, it can be a variety. ALBW has straight up mini-dungeons w/ puzzles in caves. Mazes with enemies. Kill rooms. I expect a variety.
On the KING thing, if king is in the timeline, maybe this game takes place after skyward sword and explains the origins of hyrule and how you become king in the end? Or how you need to save the king or person who would become king?
Or maybe it's referring to the king of the gerudo, but that's ocarina of time's thing - so maybe this is to resurrect the king of the gerudo? Or maybe it's about the FIRST king of the gerudo - surely ganondorf was not the first male of the gerudo tribe.
Just don't have much faith in Nintendo recently, that's all. They're not known for setting a benchmark or delivering anything ambitious. They stick very close to their past heroics.
Skittzo0413
Member
If I'm a Nintendo developer- specifically- I hear that we're putting in a hundred tiny dungeons in the newest Zelda game and it's like Christmas. Think about it:
From what we hear about Zelda development, the team comes up with ideas for dungeons, puzzles, and obstacles outside of the confines of that specific game. I think they said the dungeons that were cut from WW were used in TP, for instance.
Now when you have literally a hundred micro dungeons, which do not have to follow any set theme or idea, you end up with essentially a playground to put one particular great idea you have. It doesn't have to revolve around any specific item or theme, it's just a gameplay idea you think is cool. If Aonuma told me to go nuts and try to come up with 100 different Zelda dungeon puzzles that exist outside of the confines of any other context, I'd be foaming at the mouth!
It's a very good idea to get varied and creative input from a lot of different level designers.
crooked spin
Member
Yeah, this is what I immediately thought of. The "Big" dungeons could even have multiple access points in the overworld.
As far as we know, that will be March, when NX releases. No point releasing it for Wii U sooner, and unless something changes significantly NX won't be any sooner. I suppose it could be delayed, in which case I imagine Zelda would be also, but I don't expect that to happen at this point.
I agree 1. will potentially happen at the outset of the game, but not that it will continue to happen throughout the game. Complaints about handholdiness in Nintendo games are IMO pretty overblown, once you're done with the first 15-20% of most Nintendo games there's no further tutorial unless you encounter a need to learn a new control scheme, and those tend to be pretty brief. 2, 3, and 4 doesn't necessarily need to be the case in this game. We may see evocative or similar locations, but even the most nostalgia-heavy Zelda, Twilight Princess, has wildly different locations throughout the game, mainly it plays with tropes of what nostalgia and series knowledge would lead you to expect certain locations to be like, and then pulls the floor out from under you--or magnetizes you to the ceiling, as it were. 5. we have no proof of. Regardless, about 2.-4., with this game Aonuma-san has specifically said they want to rethink the conventions of Zelda, to offer a new take on an open world, and for the game to reinvent Zelda in 3D for the first time since Ocarina of Time. That to me says fresh start and fresh ideas. You could be right or I could be right, but at this point we have no proof of anything. That's my only point. Is there a scenario in which Nintendo could make this Zelda appealing to you? What would you like to see from it?
Yeah probably.
It's just that whenever I see gameplay of Skyrim and imagine Zelda going in this direction I puke a little bit in my mouth. It's just regular enemy encounters with generic level design layouts as if an algorithm spat them out. Monsters scale with your level which gives the entire game an artificial feel. Then you find a chest and perform the same repetitive lockpick minigame to get a slightly different looking bow with +2 more stats. It's just garbage.
ShockingAlberto
Member
As far as Skyrim goes, this is closer to true than you think.
Yup, i'm sure they had a lot of content procedurally generated and then people kinda glanced over it to make sure it wasn't TOO broken.
I'd be very surprised if anything in zelda's overworld is procedurally generated. That said, I wouldn't mind if the game had random maze-like-caves like in twilight princess that were also procedurally generated.
Cipher Peon
Banned
Point 1 sounds perfect!
I'm not crazy about the rest but I can deal. Pick up and play is easily the way to go for me in this day and age, especially when my play sessions can be months apart.
Oh, I knew you were joking about Metroid.
Just wasn't sure if you were joking about a new Wii U game in general. You're totally right that we don't know for sure. But the only credible inside info we have had to go on is the Trev leak, which except for NX info (which reasonably may very well have been true at the time of the leak), has checked out entirely at every step of the way. So that's why I take it as such a fervently held truth. 
Still, you're absolutely right that N-Stars or anything else could be announced during the stream. I do think Mother 3 could pop up then, which I suppose I have to (gladly!) concede means anything could pop up in the same timeframe also. I think when they're starting or potentially (less likely) ending the stream is the best time for an announcement. Keeping my expectations in check as you suggested, but I'll be optimistic as always and I very much appreciate your optimistic perspective!Whoa, those were procedurally generated? I had no idea.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
They said as much in the video that it was second-hand. I wonder what the original source is though
I like the idea of the rumor though so hoping it's accurate, and that the Skyrim idea is more true than we realize as you mentioned
I'd like to see more depth to the story, world, and the different races. When I play it I want to feel like I'm playing something that really has a story behind everything. Not just something that amounts to "Darkness fell upon Hyrule. Light must be restored. You are our chosen one, the only one who can defeat the evil. Go to these three temples, inside each one is a piece of the Triforce." I feel like I've played this so many times with Zelda and I just want a narrative that is something deeper, something different, something that has more to say. After playing The Witcher 3, I feel like there is no excuse for Zelda to have the same kind of story every single time. On the gameplay side of things, more customisation and less of a "formula", for example, go to this dungeon, then this dungeon, then this dungeon. I hope Zelda U will surprise me.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Best to save them opinions we 4 days away. Dont want them to flex on you do you?
no no no they weren't.
I mean caves LIKE those - but this time, make them procedurally generated. That way every time I play i'll be exploring those caves anew.
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