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November NBA Season Thread - It's finally time
- Thread starter DMczaf
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Eminem said:
:lol Bitter, bitter fan. Would you prefer Stern to do nothing and say "look I understand someone threw a bottle at you. Here's a gun, go and fuck shit up". They sent a message - regardless of what happened this sort of thing is not tolerated at all. You want to be a hero? You're going to sit out a bunch of games.
I'm very happy with the suspensions because players will think twice about going into the crowd. And hopefully security is beefed up and theres a bit of distance placed between players and the crowd. Those idiot Detroit fans need to be banned for life too, and there should be some sort of alcohol ban there too.
That's not the point. It's one thing to rightly punish players for their actions, it's another to essentially end to the season of a title contender because they lashed out after being provactated in a very hostile situation. Meanwhile, Stern fails to acknowlege that such events are inevitable because of his and the rest of the NBA management's decesions in how they setup and market the game experience.
EDIT- And I think Stern is making a major miscalculation in how he's handling this. I think he figures that a hard line stance will reassure an appalled public. IMO, the public outcry over the Pacer's behavior hasn't been that severe (mostly because no one got injured), and I think that most sports fans (especially men) sympathize with what the players did. By presenting himself as 'taking the other side' from the players, he's essentially convicting them of being responsible for everything and making the players look worse to the general public. The debate has now shifted from "who's at fault?" to "is the punishment correct?", which is a question that assumes a certain answer from the question of fault.
EDIT2- And you can claim "well, Artest had past history so he deserves this!" but if that was the case, O'Neal wouldn't be suspended a ridiculous 30 games when he has been nothing but a model citizen.
Marc Stein from ESPN made a good point on SC earlier when he said that Stern was frustrated with the events over the past year that he could do nothing about (Kobegate, Spree's and Artest's comments, the trade demands) so he unleashed all his pent up punishment on the players in this incident. I think this is a case of that....he wants to say "i'm the boss here" and this is his chance, considering that this goes against all previous punishments for such incidents.
EDIT- And I think Stern is making a major miscalculation in how he's handling this. I think he figures that a hard line stance will reassure an appalled public. IMO, the public outcry over the Pacer's behavior hasn't been that severe (mostly because no one got injured), and I think that most sports fans (especially men) sympathize with what the players did. By presenting himself as 'taking the other side' from the players, he's essentially convicting them of being responsible for everything and making the players look worse to the general public. The debate has now shifted from "who's at fault?" to "is the punishment correct?", which is a question that assumes a certain answer from the question of fault.
EDIT2- And you can claim "well, Artest had past history so he deserves this!" but if that was the case, O'Neal wouldn't be suspended a ridiculous 30 games when he has been nothing but a model citizen.
Marc Stein from ESPN made a good point on SC earlier when he said that Stern was frustrated with the events over the past year that he could do nothing about (Kobegate, Spree's and Artest's comments, the trade demands) so he unleashed all his pent up punishment on the players in this incident. I think this is a case of that....he wants to say "i'm the boss here" and this is his chance, considering that this goes against all previous punishments for such incidents.
pilonv1 said:
yeah, that's it exactly. :ROLLEYES
How about saying the fans were ridiculously obnoxious. Jackson should getthe most...he ran into the crowd swinging. O'Neal got fucked, plain and simple. He jacked a guy WHO WAS ON THE COURT. Bullshit. I hope the NBA goes on strike again so I can loathe it again.
But hey, I'm a "bitter, bitter fan", according to this noname scrub poster. What do I know.
I agree 100%
Ninja Scooter
Member
bah, they should have all got a pass for the sheer comedic value of the videotape of the riots.
Eminem said:
I've said that repeatedly. However the NBA doesn't have any power over fans. It does over it's players. Detroit and the police will end up hopefully getting rid of those idiots who started it for life.
O'Neal's was harsh, but he hit a fan, regardless of where he was. And at the end of the day the NBA is expecting a certain level of professionalism and they didn't show it.
darkiguana
Member
I think that the message needed to be sent that under no circumstances do you ever go into the stands and attack a fan. Period. That was why the punishment was so harsh. The message has been sent that if you go into the stands after a fan, then you might be gone for the rest of the season. And fuck up your teams chances.
Now I think that a message needs to be sent to the fans that under no circumstances do you ever throw an object onto the court. Regardless of what a player/ref/coach does, that is just as bad as the player entering the stands. I am not sure how you can do this outside of the legal action that will take place. One suggestion that I have heard is if a fan is thrown out of the stadium for any reason(this would include throwing things), then ban them for the season. I am not sure if this can be done legally, however. One way or another the fans involved in this need to have serious consequences for their behaviour.
As far as Wallace's conduct goes, his actions were all on the court against other players. While he did deserve a supension he did not enter the stands at all. That is why he only got 6 games. He did not enter the stands and he did not attack a fan. BIG difference between what he did and what Artest, Oneill, and Jackson did.
On a side note, I always thought it was a mistake for the Spurs to let Jackson leave in free agency last year. I don't think that anymore
darkiguana
Now I think that a message needs to be sent to the fans that under no circumstances do you ever throw an object onto the court. Regardless of what a player/ref/coach does, that is just as bad as the player entering the stands. I am not sure how you can do this outside of the legal action that will take place. One suggestion that I have heard is if a fan is thrown out of the stadium for any reason(this would include throwing things), then ban them for the season. I am not sure if this can be done legally, however. One way or another the fans involved in this need to have serious consequences for their behaviour.
As far as Wallace's conduct goes, his actions were all on the court against other players. While he did deserve a supension he did not enter the stands at all. That is why he only got 6 games. He did not enter the stands and he did not attack a fan. BIG difference between what he did and what Artest, Oneill, and Jackson did.
On a side note, I always thought it was a mistake for the Spurs to let Jackson leave in free agency last year. I don't think that anymore
darkiguana
Ninja Scooter
Member
why does everyone keep talking about how bad it was for this to happen in front of kids, and how the kids are all traumatized? You know all thekids who were there that night cant wait to get to school on Monday so they can brag about how they were there for the Motor City Meltdown.
darkiguana
Member
Eminem said:
I agree that the fans involved need to be punished severely. No reason for any of that shit.
I just looked at the fight again, and Ben Wallace did go into the stands a little bit, but it did not look like he did anything. It looked like he was following Artest until he saw what Artest was doing and then got out of there. I did not see Ben Wallace at all after that.
Because of the shots of several kids in tears after the incident. It was pretty disturbing to see that, IMO.
darkiguana
Eminem said:
"Hardass attitude"?
This is BEN WALLACE. The guy would normally never hurt a fly. He has no attitude. If you want to talk about anything "pent up", then it is probably Ben's frustration over family troubles as of late. 3 family members die in a year, that is some hard shit.
darkiguana said:
yeah, agreed. wallace didn't do much, if anything, but he was in the stands.
SKluck said:
right. he was not in a good state of mind..but he had no right to push artest like he did. favre stepped it up, ben should have to, IMO. the towel was the clincher
Eminem said:
it depends on how you look at...he obviously had time to build up a head of steam while running in for his balrog impersonation ( :lol btw) and he had time think about what he was doing before going in fists first and considering the guy he hit was already down and ron was already being escorted away, so he was not protecting his teammate.
i think it was maybe five games too many, since he was pretty clean up until this point and that should be taken into account as much as artests history.
By the way, here's my prediction for the rest of the season (remember this in June):
The union files a grievance, an arbitrator rules the penalties excessive (like with Spree, and Artest is back for the last 10 games of the season. Indiana (the 6th seed) rolls into the Finals and beats the Spurs for their first NBA championship.
The union files a grievance, an arbitrator rules the penalties excessive (like with Spree, and Artest is back for the last 10 games of the season. Indiana (the 6th seed) rolls into the Finals and beats the Spurs for their first NBA championship.
bionic77 said:
Apparently (judging by the yahoo sports recap) he hit one field goal (and got 6 FT's) in the final 3:30, because he had made 9 FG's and taken only 11 FT's when I walked away from the PC with 3:30 remaining. Refs bail his ass out again.
It's good he made that FG, though, because it would be a dubious distinction indeed to have as many TO's (9) as FGM's (10).
They already have a "don't throw anything onto the court or you will be escorted out" rule in about every stadium. I don't have a big problem with tossing debris onto the court. I think fans should be allowed to protest in some ways. The fan was just looking to start something. Really the fan responsible for this is a real punk. He throws a beer at a player trying to avoid a fight, and then when trouble comes he lets someone else get the brunt and then takes cheap shots. And yet we're talking about how bad a role model Ron Artest is? Hell, that's likely someone's actual dad who did that crap.
David Stern is bad for the league and has been for years. He pumps up superstars like superheros, worries about the almighty dollar and has been turning the league into the WWE. One quote I heard a couple times was "these players are professionals on a stage". A stage? A frikkin stage? It's the game of basketball. It's a basketball court. Wrestling knows its a show, a drama. That is a stage.
In the NBA you are stuck between what is show and what is basketball.
It's a pretty terrible ruling. Sure it helps out the Magic (us and the Heat are looking like the teams to beat in the East right now, but Artest does not deserve a year-long suspension -- that's just garbage. Beyond the fact I lose O'neal from my fantasy team for a quarter of a season, that ruling is garbage as well. The fan was on the court and he was defending Artest to boot. 10 games at most is all he deserved.
If Mad Max can go into the crowd and pop a fan and get 10, then Jermaine should be able to do it to a guy ON THE COURT where he had no right to be at all. Fact of the matter is the fans should NOT be doing shit like they were -- it's exactly why I hate fans in cities like New York and Detroit. They have no tact.
If Mad Max can go into the crowd and pop a fan and get 10, then Jermaine should be able to do it to a guy ON THE COURT where he had no right to be at all. Fact of the matter is the fans should NOT be doing shit like they were -- it's exactly why I hate fans in cities like New York and Detroit. They have no tact.
Been a fan since the 80s. Back when I was a little kid, my oldest bro used to listen to a lot of Orel Hershiser's inspirational tapes since we all went to church and he was a big figure as far as Christians in sports goes. He had his poster on the wall and everything so I just started following the Dodgers too. Been a diehard fan ever since. My favorite player as a kid was Ramon "The Tone" Martinez as I liked to call him. Got a nice autographed picture at home somewhere which I'll always treasure even if his younger bro ended up being the better pitcher.
RobotChant
Member
pilonv1 said:
Hands etiolate a bucket...
If I read another article about how organizations should sign players who are "professional and mature" at the expense of talent, I'm going to have to join etiolate.
When was the last time a columnist gave love to a good guy with marginal talent? Probably never. And these same columnists would be the first ones to shit on a team for signing those kinds of players.
It also seems that people revel in seeing Artest suspended just because they don't like him. I'm not a fan of his either, but the punishment was way too harsh. The league admitted there wasn't enough security there, so essentially the players are punished for their actions and the league's/palace's fuck ups.
I hate Stern!!!
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