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[Proelite]

What do you mean by higher and lower end APUs ? The handheld, tablet will use lower end APU and Console, Xbox laptop higher end APU ?

Handheld, surface, OEM laptop, NUC, and Series S successor: low end APU.

OEM Gaming laptop with 45 minute battery life, console, gaming PC: high end APU

 

[rnlval]

I do believe MS plans on at least one more console. However, I can see why this is all so confusing.

Going by what OP is saying (and the video), Microsoft/AMD will be pushing these "Xbox" APUs to PC gaming too. Throw in Microsoft's message that everything is an Xbox and all of the "wins" that are being pushed by the Xbox influencers, of course people are going to assume they are moving to PC and leaving traditional consoles behind.

I said it earlier in this thread. I am just a consumer so I am going to watch this unfold and spend my dollars accordingly. Regardless, Microsoft is going to end up with some of them.

Strix Halo APU is a multi-chip, large APU.

For example,
Game console Strix Halo Next APU i.e. budget CCD, some disabled CU iGPU.

Desktop/laptop PC premium Strix Halo Next APU with flagship dual CCDs, fully enabled CU iGPU.

Strix Halo APU idea allows CCDs to scale up or down, including compact budget/embedded Zen 5/6 cores.

 

[Proelite]

So their max target for the next gen lasting 2-3 years is 15 mil? So 5-7.5 million a year for the Xbox chip variants? What about future plans for the OS outside these APUs? Just normal Windows?

For gaming? It'll be the same OS, probably fully-open like the ones going into Rog Xbox Ally.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

For gaming? It'll be the same OS, probably fully-open like the ones going into Rog Xbox Ally.

So there are plans where you can buy a license for this OS to install on whatever device you wish in the future? Or only limited to certain partner devices or ones that come with the Xbox integrated APU?

 

[Proelite]

So there are plans where you can buy a license for this OS to install on whatever device you wish in the future? Or only limited to certain partner devices or ones that come with the Xbox integrated APU?

Idk. Maybe it's the same OS, and the BC part only works on the Xbox APUs. Maybe it's a different OS together from the one in the Rog Xbox Ally, but sharing capabilities.

I don't find that part interesting.

 

[Fess]

100%. Achievements as well all need to be synced under one account. Hours played in game all that. I want it to feel like I'm in one ecosystem. Otherwise I'd just rather use steam big picture mode if I want access to pc games.

Exactly. If they can make that then they have a winner right there. But if they keep going with a split userbase it'll fail.

They need to actually listen to their own PR, then make it true.

"This is an Xbox"

Read that sentence and make it actually true so you can apply it to every device that "is an Xbox". Goes for online gaming, Gamepass cost, games library. If everything is supposed to be an Xbox then make it so, or stop using that PR phrase.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Idk. Maybe it's the same OS, and the BC part only works on the Xbox APUs.

Yeah, I'm aware the BC is lost without the XBox APU. I was just wondering if they were looking at expanding the OS beyond a set of tailored PCs. If they would release a YMMV version with more compatibility across other x86 devices giving greater options to expand this new model footprint. 15 million max over 3 years doesn't seem like a big footprint for this to be viable long term. It also gives me a bit of a pause on this because it indicates that this isn't a big priority and leads me to think that cloud streaming is going to be their big push instead.

 

[rnlval]

Handheld, surface, OEM laptop, NUC, and Series S successor: low end APU.

OEM Gaming laptop with 45 minute battery life, console, gaming PC: high end APU

Don't forget large APUs for running local AI laptops/desktops.

Laptops/desktop PCs are moving towards a 256-bit memory bus with the future Strix Halo Next APUs. We're nearly another 64-bit/128-bit memory bus transition phase with the 128-bit/256-bit memory bus phase.. Thanks to the fruit company.

 

[Hudo]

Fun fact: Jensen Huang and Lisa Su are cousins. Which makes the consumer GPU market a family business.

 

[MisterXDTV]

So yeah it's not a console, it's a PC with an Xbox sticker

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of software for a Windows machine that runs Steam anyway.....

=

Not a damn console

 

[Kacho]

I do believe MS plans on at least one more console. However, I can see why this is all so confusing.



Going by what OP is saying (and the video), Microsoft/AMD will be pushing these "Xbox" APUs to PC gaming too. Throw in Microsoft's message that everything is an Xbox and all of the "wins" that are being pushed by the Xbox influencers, of course people are going to assume they are moving to PC and leaving traditional consoles behind.

I said it earlier in this thread. I am just a consumer so I am going to watch this unfold and spend my dollars accordingly. Regardless, Microsoft is going to end up with some of them.

Well said. Probably best to ignore the online chatter for now.

The onus is on Microsoft to sell these devices and hopefully they have something that makes sense for me. My biggest thing was not losing access to my games so at least that's confirmed.

 

[Kacho]

"It's not a PC"

"It's not a console"

 

[BennyBlanco]

I wonder if these will launch before GTAVI PC.

 

[MisterXDTV]

"It's not a PC"

"It's not a console"

True,

It's fucking useless

 

[Fess]

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of software for a Windows machine that runs Steam anyway.....

Valid thought.

For those in the know: How are they planning to get 3rd party devs to bother doing Microsoft Store Play Anywhere titles if Steam is already there in the UI and play anywhere?

 

[Proelite]

Nvm.

 

[Proelite]

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of software for a Windows machine that runs Steam anyway.....

They will at the very least for Gamepass.

 

[Proelite]

"It's not a PC"

"It's not a console"

It's a device that plays your Xbox library, Gamepass, and all Steam, Epic, and Tencent titles without paid online multiplayer.

Debating whether or not it's a PC or a console is an academic exercise.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

It's a device that plays your Xbox library, Gamepass, and all Steam, Epic, and Tencent titles without paid online multiplayer.

Yep. It doesn't even have to succeed in getting GP subscribers if it means the end of PS+ and Sony being able to demand the cut from GAAS games.

 

[Proelite]

Yep. It doesn't even have to succeed in getting GP subscribers if it means the end of PS+ and Sony being able to demand the cut from GAAS games.

Lol PS is safe. Nothing will hurt Sony unless gaming itself is no longer a lifestyle habit or a primary choice for entertainment.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Lol PS is safe. Nothing will hurt Sony unless gaming itself is no longer a lifestyle habit or a primary choice for entertainment.

It doesn't have to work... but you can see how the PS6 will look bad to the normies... if MS plays their cards right. The PS6 will also have a handheld and a dedicated console, but no PC option with Free MP.

Nintendo is safe because they value exclusives.

 

[memoryman3]

It doesn't have to work... but you can see how the PS6 will look bad to the normies... if MS plays their cards right. The PS6 will also have a handheld and a dedicated console, but no PC option with Free MP.

Nintendo is safe because they value exclusives.

Depends on the price of the new console I think. PS6's worst competition isn't Nintendo or a dedicated Xbox, but rather the PS5 (cheaper!) and Windows (more versatile!). If the PS6 is cheap but not a big leap, many won't feel compelled to upgrade. If the PS6 is $800+, a lot of people will be priced out or could choose to move to PC gaming.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They will at the very least for Gamepass.

Sure, a very succesful service for third-party games....

LOL

 

[Proelite]

Nvm.

 

[Kacho]

On paper these devices are compelling and should offer something different in an age where hardware has become increasingly more homogenized. Xbox won't just be a lesser PlayStation if they pull this off. It's a smart pivot IMO.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

It's a PC.

We all know its a Personal Console!

 

[Fess]

On paper these devices are compelling and should offer something different in an age where hardware has become increasingly more homogenized. Xbox won't just be a lesser PlayStation if they pull this off. It's a smart pivot IMO.

Yeah. It can fail terribly on the market but as a concept there is nothing to dislike.

On paper the strategy takes the upsides of PC gaming and combine it with the upsides of console gaming.

The console (let's call it that to make it easy) seems like a big budget designed small form factor PC with the UI and ease of use of consoles. It's Steam machines, but Windows and for more launchers/stores.

Those who can't see the good things in such a concept never wanted to like it anyway.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

True,

It's fucking useless

PC is useless? WFT?

A PC has more use cases than some shitty console.

 

[twilo99]

So yeah it's not a console, it's a PC with an Xbox sticker

Nobody is going to make dedicated version of software for a Windows machine that runs Steam anyway.....

=

Not a damn console

You are going to be okay I promise

 

[DevonExplorer]

No.

Interesting. There was a Chinese hardware leaker that claimed there would be 3D cache on the PS6 a while ago.

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2666416-1-1.html

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Jesus the peeps in here getting hung up on the stupid question wheather this qualifies as a "console" or not, who gives a damn ffs. If anything, this looks like a console that introduces greater compatibility with desktop Windows to me. Switching architecture to regular x86 while at the same time maintaining backwards compatibility with earlier gens.

 

[Orbital2060]

It's a PC.

We all know its a Personal Console!

 

[reinking]

On paper these devices are compelling and should offer something different in an age where hardware has become increasingly more homogenized. Xbox won't just be a lesser PlayStation if they pull this off. It's a smart pivot IMO.

I think the partnership with AMD is one of the smartest things MS has done in a while. It is fantastic for Microsoft because if you buy a device with an APU you buy a (potential) Xbox. I do wonder what the difference is going to be in these chips if you buy an Xbox branded device vs a device that is not Xbox branded. Will it just be the OS that comes preinstalled?

I think the issue right now is that all of this transition/future is confusing. The good thing for Microsoft is general consumers probably have no idea about this news.

 

[MisterXDTV]

PC is useless? WFT?

A PC has more use cases than some shitty console.

PC gaming has been a thing for 40 years, I don't know why people should give a damn about an Xbox sticker on one of them....

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Jesus the peeps in here getting hung up on the stupid question wheather this qualifies as a "console" or not, who gives a damn ffs. If anything, this looks like a console that introduces greater compatibility with desktop Windows to me. Switching architecture to regular x86 while at the same time maintaining backwards compatibility with earlier gens.

i don't think it's an arbitrary question.

"AMD is beyond building custom chips for Xbox consoles TO designing a full roadmap of gaming‑optimized chips"

using an APU to replace lower entry GPUs (50, 60 Nvidia series) has been a "prediction" for a while now.

but the implications are exactly those: An off the shelf APUs powering the next Xbox Xbox/Windows "Console" or whatever,
Implies a lower performance/capabilities compared to a fully custom chip

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So you are still hopeful Sony will stop PC ports. Lol.

That ship has sailed. Either you focus on selling your console, or you focus on selling highest amount of software.

Now that xbox is no longer competing directly, they can focus on maximising software.

SIE's downfall will be them thinking they need a direct competitor in order to be displaced in a market. Entertainment options and demographics are a lot more convergent today than a decade ago, let alone before that. And library crossover between consoles and things like PC is much higher than in any generation prior.

And as Nintendo have shown, there are ways to maximize software without marginalizing your home base platform. Rushing to do direct ports of almost every GAAS & non-GAAS 1P title to PC instead of some very select spinoff titles to the platform, will never not be a mistake on SIE's part.

Considering Game Pass has been available since 2017, it's apparent it has limited appeal. I think even MS has accepted that at this point. After all, despite throwing everything at it, it still failed to reach the majority of gamers. And now that they've closed most of the loopholes for getting it cheap and started publishing most of their titles everywhere, it would seem MS has changed their goals surrounding it. As for it appearing on Sony and Nintendo devices, I agree that it will likely not happen. It would be good for MS, imo, but the potential sub fee would likely be less than what could be made on 30% of each game sold. So, not so good for Sony and Nintendo.

This device is really good news for people already in the Xbox ecosystem. The ability to play their already existing library is great news on top of all the other features. It may also appeal to other people, but I'm not so sure about that. I guess time will tell. In the meantime, I suspect we will be seeing a lot more of a 'no one needs a PS6 now' and 'Sony is in trouble' type narrative going forward. It's tedious, but par for the course.

For sure, Xbox console diehards will be in the camp of picking one of these up once they're available. I can also see it appealing to PC gamers on low-end laptops or technically outdated OEM builds from many years ago, who want to upgrade performance, but stay in a given price range while still retaining the access & benefits of PC they've been enjoying for so long. Those who might want to consolidate their productivity & entertainment activities to a single device, and haven't invested in a beastly rig, might also be in the market.

Where it probably doesn't appeal (at least at first, or until more details are revealed) are the super casuals who don't care for consolidating their non-mobile entertainment & productivity to a single device, or only care about the super mainstream sports & GAAS titles (to play for fun, i.e they aren't extremely competitive), or are hardcore Nintendo gamers, or very diehard PlayStation fans who have severe FOMO.

Really? I saw her as someone who skillfully manipulated people on both sides for the sake of a huge payday. The proof is how she went from being the "Queen" of Xbox to disappearing once the deal closed.

IKR? She phantom'd out of there quick as soon as it was all over.

This was clear from the beginning, I don't think anyone was manipulated.

Post-Up was manipulated.

Well actually, they manipulated themselves.

 

[RCX]

So...its a rerun of the 3DO.

Whats Panasonic up to these days. Reckon they fancy another whack at making a console?!

 

[Gudji]

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You're not getting a handheld gaming APU with 36 CUs for next gen. Also you need at least double that for the console.

Isn't that exactly what's been strongly rumored for SIE's PS5/PS6 portable? Well, that and it'll have some version of UDNA along with V-Cache (but apparently, no PSSR oddly)?

Xbox's existence is to separate from mostly crap Intel iGPU PC market. MS handles GPU driver updates instead of Windows Vista-style mass BSOD with Nvidia drivers.

TBF I haven't had issues with updating Nvidia drivers except one time, when the update simply kept failing, but that one did update the next day.

Then again, I've switched to Studio drivers a while ago, and those tend to get less frequent updates. One of the reasons I made the switch.

At the end of the day, the APU is the only bespoke part of consoles inside PS5 / Series consoles. Everything is pretty much commodity hardware or easy to mass manufacture.

This isn't entirely true. The data I/O subsystem in PS5 has some bespoke components in it, and the modified CU core for the system's audio is not an off-the-shelf component, nor present in other AMD products outside of PS5. That's in part because they customized it to function like the Cell's SPU (or is it the SPE?).

Don't forget large APUs for running local AI laptops/desktops.

Laptops/desktop PCs are moving towards a 256-bit memory bus with the future Strix Halo Next APUs. We're nearly another 64-bit/128-bit memory bus transition phase with the 128-bit/256-bit memory bus phase.. Thanks to the fruit company.

Why not just say Apple?

Depends on the price of the new console I think. PS6's worst competition isn't Nintendo or a dedicated Xbox, but rather the PS5 (cheaper!) and Windows (more versatile!). If the PS6 is cheap but not a big leap, many won't feel compelled to upgrade. If the PS6 is $800+, a lot of people will be priced out or could choose to move to PC gaming.

In the past I floated an idea that in the future, SIE should probably set up PS6 as something of a microcomputer platform, expanding it with more productivity options in various software suites (Sony already make some of this stuff for Windows), and taking more inspiration from Steam in terms of community features and transparency. So you can get some of those benefits as you'd have with PC, but SIE still get to secure control of the storefront, the OS, and retain that full top-down synergy in hardware, kernel, OS, UI, subscriptions/services & software.

I just thought that'd be closer to PS7...but there might be more of a case to bring that forward to PS6. If not at launch, then around launch. Also worth stating in some ways they peaked with OS features and UI during the PS3 gen, and it's time to get back to/surpass that.

Interesting. There was a Chinese hardware leaker that claimed there would be 3D cache on the PS6 a while ago.

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2666416-1-1.html

It's possible (in fact, highly likely) SIE have multiple design concepts in various stages of prototyping & testing. One could have V-Cache, another might not.

If the handheld having V-Cache shapes out to be true, well it'd be very perplexing for the home console to not implement it in some form, too. But that's still possible.

So...its a rerun of the 3DO.

Whats Panasonic up to these days. Reckon they fancy another whack at making a console?!

You mean what's 3DO up to these days? Because they're dead

The 3DO concept was mainly their/Trip's thing, anyhow; Panasonic was just the main hardware partner for manufacturing. Kinda like Hudson & NEC's relationship.

I'd love if NEC & Hudson (well, now Konami) made a new console tho. Or SNK (well, maybe. COTW went over terribly). Or SEGA.

Actually I'm kinda hoping SEGA are one of the OEM partners for an Xbox device. Full circle and all.

 

[KeplerL2]

Interesting. There was a Chinese hardware leaker that claimed there would be 3D cache on the PS6 a while ago.

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2666416-1-1.html

Everything he claimed in that post is wrong.

 

[bitbydeath]

It's not a PC though. Also Xbox did 320-bit last gen, so they could do 30GB if needed.

What makes it not a PC exactly?

 

[Proelite]

Isn't that exactly what's been strongly rumored for SIE's PS5/PS6 portable? Well, that and it'll have some version of UDNA along with V-Cache (but apparently, no PSSR oddly)?

This isn't entirely true. The data I/O subsystem in PS5 has some bespoke components in it, and the modified CU core for the system's audio is not an off-the-shelf component, nor present in other AMD products outside of PS5. That's in part because they customized it to function like the Cell's SPU (or is it the SPE?).

No. K KeplerL2 said 16CUs, 150GB/s, 16gb lpddr5x for the PS6 portable in 2028? Tbh, those specs are kind of mid for a 2028 handheld.

The data I/O for the PS5 is special, but unnecessary in hindsight. The system audio CU was in the APU?

 

[Bry0]

What makes it not a PC exactly?

The user experience and corresponding os software I guess.

 

[bitbydeath]

The user experience and corresponding os software I guess.

Sarah said the OS software is Windows. (Win32)
But maybe there are multiple devices and some won't support Windows which hasn't been announced yet.

Edit: That also goes against Sarah's statement of making Windows the number one place to play, so it might just wordplay by Kepler?

 

[rnlval]

This isn't entirely true. The data I/O subsystem in PS5 has some bespoke components in it, and the modified CU core for the system's audio is not an off-the-shelf component, nor present in other AMD products outside of PS5. That's in part because they customized it to function like the Cell's SPU (or is it the SPE?).

PS5's CU based AMD DSP is based on the idea from TrueAudio Next running on Polaris GCN, but with one CU scale and missing raster hardware. The single CU DSP is kept separate from the 36 CU RDNA+ iGPU. AMD BC-250 mining cards have a partially working PlayStation 5 APU IGPU with a 24 CU scale.

AMD BC250 APU (recycles defective PlayStation 5 APU)
CPU: 6 Zen 2 cores active from 8 cores.
GPU: 24 CU scale RDNA+ active from 40 CU. The Linux Mesa PC driver for RDNA 1 still works on this GPU. PC RDNA 2 Mesa driver doesn't work on PS5 APU's GPU.
Windows loads safe mode display drivers on this PlayStation 5 APU. AMD supplies the PC ACPI firmware for this defective PS5 APU.

AsRock partners with AMD for this BC250 APU.

Someone run games on AMD BC-250 under Linux * Cut down PS5 die to 6 CPU cores 24 GPU cores for use in crypto mining

If community mange to fix current driver issues, can be potentially entry level gaming PC for tech savvy people due can be find for only $50. After OC iGPU is only slightly behind RX 6600 performance. CPU performance is close to Ryzen 5 2600x

www.techpowerup.com

AMD BC 250 APU (defective PS5 APU) running desktop Linux (AMD) with 3D-accelerated games and Windows. OC iGPU is only slightly behind RX 6600 (28 CU active scale from 32 CU) performance. With the correct firmware, the PS5 APU can boot Windows or Linux PC.

AMD's Granite Ridge IOD has a 2 CU scale RDNA 2 iGPU i.e. AMD's tiny working iGPU for the PC market.

AMD 4700S for the PC market also recycles defective PlayStation 5 APUs, but with defective iGPUs. A defective GPU front end would render the entire iGPU defective. In the PC world, a defective iGPU would be the F series e.g. Ryzen 5 8500F (defective iGPU, two defective CPU cores).

AMD will sell defective APU chips as lower model SKUs to claw back the cost of the wafer disc.

 

[Bry0]

Sarah said the OS software is Windows. (Win32)
But maybe there are multiple devices and some won't support Windows which hasn't been announced yet.

Edit: That also goes against Sarah's statement of making Windows the number one place to play, so it might just wordplay by Kepler?

It can be running windows but not boot into a desktop like a "pc", and not load up printer drivers and such into memory. And maybe not run any old executable out of the box. And maybe the front end basically looks the same as booting up a series x.

That's my takeaway from "It's not a pc"

 

[rnlval]

i don't think it's an arbitrary question.

"AMD is beyond building custom chips for Xbox consoles TO designing a full roadmap of gaming‑optimized chips"

using an APU to replace lower entry GPUs (50, 60 Nvidia series) has been a "prediction" for a while now.

but the implications are exactly those: An off the shelf APUs powering the next Xbox Xbox/Windows "Console" or whatever,
Implies a lower performance/capabilities compared to a fully custom chip

Thank a certain fruit company for creating large APUs for the PC market. The PlayStation 5 APU can boot Windows or Linux PC with the correct firmware.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Thank a certain fruit company for creating large APUs for the PC market. PlayStation APU can boot Windows or Linux PC with the correct firmware.

... ok?
is the fruit company selling AMD APUs?

 

[rnlval]

... ok?
is the fruit company selling AMD APUs?

AMD (with usual PC ODM/OEM partners) is responding to a certain fruit company's M series "Pro" or "Max" SKUs.

 

[Radical_3d]

AMD (with usual PC ODM/OEM partners) is responding to a certain fruit company's M series "Pro" or "Max" SKUs.

OMG. Are you implying that AMD APUs, which suck battery life like it's starving, are trying to compete with the non-x64 "I buy the newest node TSMC can produce at any price" M class chips?

Man, Saturday night GAF is wild!