Just a bit of nitpicking here, but shouldn't you actually use a less sensitive device to measure higher amounts of radiation?
Anyway, that whole thing is a mess. Although I'm not quite sure what can be done now to prevent further damage.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nuclear experts: Fukushima is much worse than Japan is letting on. Leaks everywhere.
- Thread starter Jackpot
- Start date
- Status
Anyway, that whole thing is a mess. Although I'm not quite sure what can be done now to prevent further damage.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
That happened last year. The Japanese government bought a 51% stake in Tepco basically giving them power over it... The thing is, is that the government isn't really doing anything to influence Tepco to do things any better and here we are today.
Tepco needs to be broken up and leave the final chunk of it responsible for the containment of Fukushima no1 plant and surrounding areas. The profitability factor needs to be taken out of this. Bottom of the barrel cheapness is what gave us the shitty containers that had crap seals and solder welds.
Love your user name BTW.
I also would like this to become a joint international effort. Nearly 3 years on and still they're floundering about like Homer Simpson.
Uni on Everything!
Member
I'm no nuclear expert but once you build a nuclear plant is there no way of dismantling it safely? Seems like that would be an easy fix...
MesserWolf
Member
the decommissioning of a nuclear station is normally possible even if very expensive (however funds are put aside along the whole life of the nuclear plant).
However the issue here is that the core melted, hence it becomes very very very difficult to deal with it. Even going near that stuff is extremely difficult.
That is why the containment is already difficult as it is, not even thinking of moving the material to another location (which one ?).
keep in mind that they are using around 300-400 tons of water everyday to cool down the fuel rods preventing further meltdowns. This water becomes radioactive... there lies the issue.
Do they "recycle" the same water that becomes radioactive to cool it down again?
Vicetrailia
Member
This problem will be around for a long-time to boot. It is an emergency though, clean energy 
.
.Freeza Under The Shower
Member
So, just for reference:
what exactly happens when they stop cooling the reactors?
and: what type of damage would be associated with allowing the cores to burrow themselves into the ground? (aside from potentially causing a magma eruption if it goes that deep)
Anyone happen to know these scenarios?
what exactly happens when they stop cooling the reactors?
and: what type of damage would be associated with allowing the cores to burrow themselves into the ground? (aside from potentially causing a magma eruption if it goes that deep)
Anyone happen to know these scenarios?
Uni on Everything!
Member
Interesting. I'd also like to know what would happen if they don't cool it.
How big is a nuclear core? Could they find a way to remove it remotely or something? Then send it off into space
MesserWolf
Member
I am not sure how the cooling circuit is at the moment ....
And if you stop the cooling down you risk further meltdown of the fuel rods ( I guess ) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown
If you do not cool it down, you have further meltdowns, more dispersion of nuclear material, and if left it there, I guess the temperature could become so high to create a breach in the containment vessel of the reactor.
It is easier to contain the nuclear material while it is in solid form, as fuel rod, rather than not.
Disclaimer : I am not a nuclear engineer .... take the above cum grano salis .
ComputerMKII
Banned
This is getting out of control.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130913-steam-seen-fukushima-reactors-tepco
Powdered Toastman
Member
If they employ the same technique as used in Rotterdam when they built the new central station, they'll pump liquid nitrogen and brine into the ground, forming a dam of frozen ground. I can't really see this as being feasible in the long run though, as they will have to keep pumping in liquid nitrogen almost continuously.
Uh, yet another leak has been found:
http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/new-leak-at-crippled-fukushima-nuclear-plant-tepco
Seems like this has become the kind of routine bad news that people and the media are not even going to pay attention to any more, even though it's getting worse every month.
http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/new-leak-at-crippled-fukushima-nuclear-plant-tepco
Seems like this has become the kind of routine bad news that people and the media are not even going to pay attention to any more, even though it's getting worse every month.
SolidsnackooFoxhound
Banned
God damn these mother fuckers are so clueless.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
I doubt it's a new leak and it most likely won't be the last they announce. TEPCO isn't an engineering company and it shows in their lack of quality in the tanks erected to collect water along with their ad-hoc way of handling stuff like water leakage and storage. SMH...
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Has this gotten worse than Chernobyl?
CrunchyFrog
Member
If the leaks and contamination of the ground water and potentially the pacific ocean are as bad as these reports are making it out, it's among the worst ecological disasters in history. There needs to be convened some international meeting to deal with this ASAP, but we're too busy being worried about other relatively inconsequential shit.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
Even if it does become obvious over time that Fukushima was and is a worse nuclear incident than Chernobyl, the Japanese government will fight hard to refute those claims. Just remember how long it took for them to admit they had multiple meltdowns. It took nearly a year to admit it.
Personally, I think it is at or beyond the level of Chernobyl because of the uncontrolled leaking into ground water and the thousands of tons of untreated water that's leaked or washed out to sea. While the pollution may be less than a drop in a bucket when relatively speaking, Chernobyl didn't do that and the concrete entombment while not a permanent solution, did stop the spread of further fallout thanks to all the people the USSR threw at it. Bottom line both are bad.
Personally, I think it is at or beyond the level of Chernobyl because of the uncontrolled leaking into ground water and the thousands of tons of untreated water that's leaked or washed out to sea. While the pollution may be less than a drop in a bucket when relatively speaking, Chernobyl didn't do that and the concrete entombment while not a permanent solution, did stop the spread of further fallout thanks to all the people the USSR threw at it. Bottom line both are bad.
I don't know if it's worse exactly but TEPCO and the Japanese government seem determined to handle it worse than the Soviet government handled Chernobyl.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
I'd like to visit Naraha and Tomioka someday. Abandoned places are just so eerie, you know?
wuxian fengguang
Neo Member
The Japanese gov't needs to swallow their pride, stop trying to cover things up and open their gates en masse for more foreign experts. They have done this to a small degree but not enough by far.
I really don't care if Japan wants to bumble their way through this and wallow in their own shit but it's starting to not just be only their problem anymore. They thoroughly screwed up, and the least they could do now is have the common courtesy to let someone else try and undo this mess.
I really don't care if Japan wants to bumble their way through this and wallow in their own shit but it's starting to not just be only their problem anymore. They thoroughly screwed up, and the least they could do now is have the common courtesy to let someone else try and undo this mess.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Put Iwata in charge of Japan.
He'd run the country into the fucking ground but nobody would care because they'd be putting out FUCKING ADORABLE ANIME AND VIDEOGAMES DESU DESUUUUU.
He'd run the country into the fucking ground but nobody would care because they'd be putting out FUCKING ADORABLE ANIME AND VIDEOGAMES DESU DESUUUUU.
the fuck?
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Are you okay?
Drugs are bad, m'kay?
You got some tainted Molly. Turn down.
fabricated backlash
Member
This is just sad. Go get yourself checked out.
The fuck...
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
"TEPCO said" shouldn't be something we hear anymore. Japan has basically become an irradiated water factory that is leaking all that water in the Pacific, and it will continue forever. At some point, California is fucked. All those fruits and vegetables will have to be avoided somehow. Everyone will have a geiger counter at home.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Jesus christ. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Or is it? Am I missing something?
Yeah, this is getting scary.
If tons of radioactive water are leaking into the pacific daily, this is a much bigger issue that could have global ramifications. This shouldn't just be left up to Japan anymore.
How is nobody talking about this?
Miley Cyrus twerking is more important.
Dude, I think you need to calm down.
ObjectiveObserver
Neo Member
I would say that nuclear power plants in general are very safe, (assuming that safety regulations are very strictly met) but what I don't understand is building them in areas that earthquakes will happen, effectively making the plants radioactive time-bombs. How is it even remotely legal?
I keep reading this in the news every other day on how it's much worse and no one knows what to do. I was suppose to purchase my tickets to japan last month for my vacation in December (never been to japan) but now I'm considering France. I don't think I can wait any longer to buy my tickets.
Were you planning to visit the Fukushima Power Plant? If not, I don't see why you would change your plans to visit Japan.
THIS. Or if some reality show "celebrities" were endangered by the disaster, there would be 24/7 coverage.
Did you expect anything other than that from GAF?
TEPCO and especially the Japanese government should be getting internationally buttfucked into oblivion for the way they tried to sweep this under the rug. It's intentional criminal negligence. Accidents this big have global ramifications. They do not have the right to downplay them and try to fucking save face.
I'm a tech at a nuclear plant, and yes, the safety regulations take precedence over anything. We have on site NRC (federal employees) reps that oversee tasks on a daily basis. They have nothing to do with power generation, and will shut the plant down if they feel something is not safe. I can't speak for other plants, but ours is designed to withstand a 5.0 quake, and we're not in a quake prone area.
Well finally some good news. Hopefully international experts will jump on board quickly and that it's not too late.
It would be absurdly expensive but couldn't they essentially build a multi layered concrete wall that went around the entire power plant , then cap it off with a huge roof and finally build a sea wall as well so this entire site is contained ?
Of course each layer of concrete would need to be laced with lead particles and have sheets of lead with various thickness between them. Have some monitoring equipment installed at each level and in the soil and ocean water around the area AS well as some towers nearby to monitor air radioactivity.
Finally, once this whole thing is complete , you have a single access tunnel deep underground with multiple doors where you send in a team of robots to slowly dismantle the entire power plant. This would be a multi decade operation , hopefully after 30 or 40 years the robots would be advanced enough to obtain radioactive materials and neutralize them for proper disposal - placing them back into mines around the earth where the stuff comes from or even blasting them onto the moon or other planets.
Sounds like complete science fiction but so does every technology before it's actually built.
Of course each layer of concrete would need to be laced with lead particles and have sheets of lead with various thickness between them. Have some monitoring equipment installed at each level and in the soil and ocean water around the area AS well as some towers nearby to monitor air radioactivity.
Finally, once this whole thing is complete , you have a single access tunnel deep underground with multiple doors where you send in a team of robots to slowly dismantle the entire power plant. This would be a multi decade operation , hopefully after 30 or 40 years the robots would be advanced enough to obtain radioactive materials and neutralize them for proper disposal - placing them back into mines around the earth where the stuff comes from or even blasting them onto the moon or other planets.
Sounds like complete science fiction but so does every technology before it's actually built.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I remember reading somewhere that these particular plants were still operating under outdated pre-chernobyl safety regulations at the time of the accident, and that had they been brought up to standard the current crisis could have been avoided. Is that true?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
The idea I heard a few weeks ago that they were thinking about was making an ice wall so it would freeze all the escaping water.
Even to the Japanese.
- Status