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Official 2004 Summer Olympics Thread
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MassiveAttack
Banned
As a life-long Knicks fan, Marbury's performance is deeply embarrassing.
To Stephon: Don't come back to NYC. We don't need you.
To Stephon: Don't come back to NYC. We don't need you.
Marbury is pretty useless out there though. He can't shoot, he can't slow down his man much, and when the other team is playing a zone he can't make any moves to demand some attention. I didn't see Lebron out there at all. I didn't watch the entire game but how much did he play? He was pretty impressive in their last game.
I hope Michael Redd is home fuming mad that he isn't there to carry this team.
Worst put together team ever.
I hope Michael Redd is home fuming mad that he isn't there to carry this team.
Worst put together team ever.
AstroLad said:
Right...so I guess the Pistons were the heavy favourites to beat the Lakers in the finals.
Can't make chicken shit out of chicken salad, and outside of TD and AI that's pretty much what he's working with here...
As for Stephon Marbury, he was exposed when Jason Kidd outplayed his ass four straight games with one knee. Fuck him.
MassiveAttack
Banned
Cloudy said:
Every GM in America is on the phone... RIGHT NOW.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Marbury is garbage. I've been saying it before hte olympics, and this only justified it. All he can do is play one on one. He sucks if the offense doesn't completely revolve 100% around him dribbling around trying to penetrate every possession. Replace him with Redd (and actual outside threat?!?) and Jefferson with Tayshaun Prince (lockdown perimeter D, and a clutch, timely shooter) and this team would be infinitely better. The problem with that is that you know that if 6 months ago, Redd and Prince were put on the team, people would have bitched about how they dont' deserve to be on the "Dream Team", and how we need to put sexy, more exciting players like Carmello and Marbury on the team. Hell, Mike Bibby is a bonafide stud, and look how much sh!t he got when he was originally named by people who didn't think he deserved it.
Shinobi said:Right...so I guess the Pistons were the heavy favourites to beat the Lakers in the finals.
Can't make chicken shit out of chicken salad, and outside of TD and AI that's pretty much what he's working with here...
As for Stephon Marbury, he was exposed when Jason Kidd outplayed his ass four straight games with one knee. Fuck him.
Hey man, if you think Larry Brown isn't doing the most fucking retarded coaching job ever with this team, even just in terms of playing time, then OK. And how many years did it take his ass to finally win an NBA championship? God damn, I thought the poor sucker was gonna die without ever winning one.
He is getting outcoached so badly it's almost sad to watch; I don't like him but I feel embarassed for him. And say what you will about the American players, almost any of them would be a starter on any team, look at Lithuania, you think that coach would mind plugging in Duncan? The players are the problem, but the coach is getting his ass kicked just as badly and deserves some blame too.
Boogie9IGN
Member
I told my dad how they lost just now, and holy shit he got pissed at everything. My mom asked what we wanted for breakfast and he just went into a flaming rage about scrambled eggs :\
shoplifter
Member
Ripclawe said:
The system that picks players who have next to no chance of playing the international game well.
The only thing I'm blaming Larry Brown about is how much PT he's giving LeBron James. As witnessed last game, he's the only one who can dish the ball out to open players. He deserves to be getting double the play time he got last game (which was something like 15 min, iirc). He should be playing most of the game. That's the only thing I'm knocking Larry Brown about.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Ripclawe said:Not my fault...
oh yeah... Marbury sucks utter ass.
Stu takes a ton of blame for this. He and USA Basketball in general. I know there was much security concern so many players decided to stay away because of that, I don't blame them for that. But there were players like Brent Berry, Michael Redd, Steve Francis who wanted to go and were denied or not even asked. Also, wtf is Larry Brown doing? When that guy was playing Stockton with that pick n roll was LB not telling people to jump out on the roll? He was getting wide open 3s while Duncan just stood and watched. Also LBs hatred of young players is shining through in the playing time department and I am sure it is coming through in practice as well.
But hey, the NBA did a great job the last 20 years of having camps all over the world, elevating the play of these countries and let's face it, teams do get extra pumped to beat the US. Next time we have to do a better job in picking the players and take this alot more seriously if we want to win. And Stu has to go.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
AstroLad said:
I totally agree. Some people on sports talk radio here in Houston have noticed the same thing. LB is doing a bad job coaching this team. Just as George Karl did before him. I think LB was thinking that he could just roll the ball out there and win like some of the players did. LB routinely got outcoached in Philly and San Antonio. Just because he finally got an NBA ring, he is not suddenly a genius.
Spiritreaver
Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Thank you. God damn, now I have NO reason to finish watching this. Jerk. It was the only thing on TV that was interesting at the moment.
shoplifter
Member
Hitman said:
Blame NBC not us. It's not like this was prime time or anything.
The combination of zone defense, more physical play allowed, and the shorter three-point arc makes international basketball no fun to watch... It's all about three pointers & free throws, no showy plays.
Look what happened during this game. The game was reduced to a three-point contest & foul-shooting contest for both teams. It's hardly worth it to drive the paint unless you're a great free throw shooter, otherwise just pull up and chance a three.
I know it sounds like sour grapes at this point, but I think Olympic B-ball rules should be looked at. I hadn't watched a full game in a long time and was struck by how shallow the play seemed with the rule tweaks. No fast-break free throw shooting rule either?
Look what happened during this game. The game was reduced to a three-point contest & foul-shooting contest for both teams. It's hardly worth it to drive the paint unless you're a great free throw shooter, otherwise just pull up and chance a three.
I know it sounds like sour grapes at this point, but I think Olympic B-ball rules should be looked at. I hadn't watched a full game in a long time and was struck by how shallow the play seemed with the rule tweaks. No fast-break free throw shooting rule either?
Teddman, the US could actually hit some open shots, they wouldn't really have a problem. Richard Hamilton, Brent Barry, Michael Redd, TMac, Kobe. I know the situation with Kobe and TMac declined, but still, at least offer a few shooters a spot, not just the All NBA Jersey Sales team.
I agree, the lack of perimeter shooters is the biggest reason the U.S. is tanking. Just one consistent outside guy and they could've won.
But isn't your point consistent with what I'm saying? We needed a solid three-ball player because the international game lives and dies on perimeter shooting in its current configuration. The game has less dimension; it's a more shallow and less entertaining contest... There's no balance of three point shooting, jumpers, low-post and fast breaks as in the NBA. It really is all about three's and foul shots.
But isn't your point consistent with what I'm saying? We needed a solid three-ball player because the international game lives and dies on perimeter shooting in its current configuration. The game has less dimension; it's a more shallow and less entertaining contest... There's no balance of three point shooting, jumpers, low-post and fast breaks as in the NBA. It really is all about three's and foul shots.
RobotChant
Member
Fucking Marbury! Why the fuck are you taking a floater in the lane with that many people packed in there.
If the US had some shooters, defenses would be playing them a bit differently. You'd still see a lot of zones, but things would be more balanced. Opponents don't even move to contest outside shots from the US. That just keeps the lanes clogged up and stifles any offensive movement into the paint. There is no movement at all with this team, they don't screen for each other besides the initial screen at the top of the key when the ball handler brings the ball up.
If the US had some shooters, defenses would be playing them a bit differently. You'd still see a lot of zones, but things would be more balanced. Opponents don't even move to contest outside shots from the US. That just keeps the lanes clogged up and stifles any offensive movement into the paint. There is no movement at all with this team, they don't screen for each other besides the initial screen at the top of the key when the ball handler brings the ball up.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Miguel said:
When AI is one of the best 3 point shooters on the team, you know you are in some shit.
Teddman said:
It doesn't even have to be a 3pt shooter. Just anyone who can score consistently if it's not a dunk or layup. The olympic 3 is just beyond mid-range compared to NBA standards. Why can't NBA vets make this shot on a regular basis? And you're not gonna get many fast breaks if the other guys are hitting everything. Not that teans would play right into our hands and make it a run and gun game lol
shoplifter said:
Naa, some guy made a separate topic (that was since merged with this one) with the spoiler in the subject. Anyone on the west coast got the game ruined for them. One could argue that they should be actually watching the game rather than surfing, but hey.
Teddman, I have to completely disagree with you. The international brand of basketball is actually a more pure version than the NBA in my eyes. The reason we are getting schooled is because shooting threes is working, why should they change? They set the high screen, our athletes don't fight over it, wide open shot bang. We are still dominating the boards, and there is plenty of running if we could actually stop the other team. We get bogged down in the half court because our ball movement is slow (was pretty good today though), we don't run plays, and we can't shoot from the outside. The game is ugly because our team is a bunch of slashers, not because of international rules.
All that said, I thought the US played very well today. To lose a game when you play like that is very disheartening though. They can take solace that Lithuania can't shoot any better than they did. Anyone notice another thing that international players have adopted from the US? I thought Lithuania was a team full of winers today. They got more than their share of calls, including about 3-4 walks that weren't called, yet they bitched to the refs like little punks all game. The blonde PG who shot his ass off was the worst. At one point he grabbed the ball and slammed it off the court into the air. Should have been a T. It was kind of sad and kind of funny, perhaps in four years it will come full circle and every other team will just have a pissy attitude all game when it doesn't go their way. Our team had plenty of times they could have pouted because of bad calls, but we kept our heads up. It was a tough loss, hats off to the Lithuanians. Hopefully we'll see them again.
I went to Georgia Tech, so I'm somewhat of a Marbury apologist, but there is NO WAY he should start on this team. Put King James in the starting lineup, please Larry, before it's too late. Richard Jefferson finally got his head out of his ass, Marbury owes us about two of those games to justify his starting spot. Ahh, this team is so damn broken it's sad, yet we could/maybe should still win the gold. There better be massive change in USA Basketball after this. We need to stop treating it like AAU and have actual tryouts, games, and such. Why not set up two teams a year in advance, have them play exhibitions all summer against each other and other teams too. That way, when half are tired/injured the next year, at least you're left with a pool of 18 who know the game and each other's.
Laura Wilkinson going into Platform finals in 10th place. More than proves her Sydney gold was a fluke (and some out of this world luck that everyone in front of her decided fuck up at the same time), if the past four years of complete mediocrity hasn't driven that home already.
Ninja Scooter
Member
BWAHAHA! Richard Jefferson after the game, "The 3 point line is closer in and it allows players, especially Europeons, to make shots with much more efficiency." Uhh, no RJeff. Thats not what Europeons do, thats what BASKETBALL PLAYERS are supposed to do. Seriously, these guys have athleticism out the ass, but other than a select few (Duncan, AI, Odom, Wade) Stu Jackson seemed to find a bunch of guys with a smaller basketball IQ than Devean fucking George. And here i thought most NBA players were smarter than Gump.
Why would you say that a ruleset that leads to the dominance of the three-point shot is a "more pure version" of basketball? Remember, the three-pointer has only been in the NBA since 1979. It's a relatively recent addition to the game.DJ_Tet said:
I guess what I'm really saying is that the three point arc needs to be moved back in international ball. 20 feet, 6 inches is too close... It's only 9 inches further out than in college play. I can see why it was set so far up back when most countries didn't have as much basketball experience as the U.S., but nowadays almost every nation in the Olympics has a professional league, and shooters who have no problem hitting from outside (in fact, it's what they often do best).
It's time to push the international 3-line closer to 23 feet, 9 inches.
Teddman said:
First off, I'm a Duke fan, so obviously I'm a fan of the three. It adds a lot of strategy to the game. Second, your argument that the three point line is too close holds no water. It isn't helping our pros any.
The point is, if we could actually get out on screens, teams wouldn't gun threes on us with such efficiency. Also, if we could hit a jumpshot, teams wouldn't be able to pack the zone so tightly. The problem is not with the rules but with our team.
The current ball in NBA is terrible, you want to talk gunning threes and dunking, there you go. No mid-game at all for most teams. The international rules are better for team play, and when teams play together, the overall game wins.
Lithuania moves the ball with precision, they played tough d, and shot the lights out. It's not their fault we can't hit a three. If they played straight up D on us, they would get dunked on left and right. We had their two bigs in foul trouble the whole game and then stopped driving and dishing. It has much less to do with the rules than with our own broken team.
That said, the refs certainly gave Lithuania more than a fair shot.
That's a non-sequitor. My argument about the international three line has no bearing on our pros' performance in the Olympics. As I already stated above, we had no perimeter shooters on the team.DJ_Tet said:
No problem that you're a fan of the three, but you didn't really give a reason for keeping the arc so close to the hoop. Most of the players in the Olympics are pros now, or are playing at a pro level of skill. Why then should we have an international game that sets the arc at nearly college regulation?
You said that international basketball is a "more pure version" of the game. So you're arguing that international rules are preferable to those of the NBA? You'd actually like to see the NBA adopt them?
Not necessarily the rules, but the style of play, hell yeah I'd like to see the NBA adopt that. The Pistons played an exciting brand of ball. I can't tell you how tired I am of seeing the team's best player being posted up on the weak side, dribbling the shot clock down, and firing a shot while sending four people to the offensive glass. Jordan could pull it off, not many more can. The international teams and college teams move the ball around, whether or not that's a byproduct of the international rules I couldn't tell you.
Perhaps the line is a little too close, but if it's closer, it should be easier to guard. If we had fought over screens consistantly, we could have forced Lithuania to do something different. Their spacing and ball movement comes from years of playing together. Their shot-making is in part due to our lack of communication of screens.
The rules are what they are, our pros shouldn't have a hard time adjusting. It's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. Watching Lithuania stroke it today, I doubt an extra 2 feet would really make that much of a difference to them.
You've said we've got no outside shooters, I've said that, everyone knows that. We still should defend the outside shot better.
Perhaps the line is a little too close, but if it's closer, it should be easier to guard. If we had fought over screens consistantly, we could have forced Lithuania to do something different. Their spacing and ball movement comes from years of playing together. Their shot-making is in part due to our lack of communication of screens.
The rules are what they are, our pros shouldn't have a hard time adjusting. It's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. Watching Lithuania stroke it today, I doubt an extra 2 feet would really make that much of a difference to them.
You've said we've got no outside shooters, I've said that, everyone knows that. We still should defend the outside shot better.
Well, it would be 3 feet, 3 inches difference at the key. That's significant. The close three hurts the mid game you say you value somewhat too, because why take a closer jumper when you can just kick it out a couple feet more for an extra point?DJ_Tet said:
I understand your points about the U.S.'s problems, but I'm trying to hone in on the issue of international rules independently of them for a second. I think they should move back the arc and also institute some kind of lane violation time limit.
Zone is fine, but allowing teams to clog the paint constantly without restriction shifts too much focus onto perimeter shooting in my opinion. You do want some balance of inside play, and to allow bigger but slower low post players to be on an equal footing with the agile outside shooter.
The Chosen One
Member
Marbuy has had a Payton-Finals like performance. At least Payton is over 35 years old... what's Marbury's excuse?
Anyway, there is simply no excuse why our team is doing bad. You can't blame it on the lack of practice, the 3 point line, or the refs. The team we sent to Athens is simply sub-par. With the exception of Duncan and maybe Iverson, the Team USA is full of arrogant rich teenagers who lack fundamental basketball skills. Seriously, if you're a small forward or a guard in the NBA, you should have NO problem hitting a wide OPEN medium range jump shot. These guys don't deserve to wear the same Team USA basketball uniforms that Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Magic, and Stockton wore before them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not just blaming the players in Athens. I also blame the players who couldn't be "bothered" to play for Team USA. In the day and age where pretty much every above average NBA player has their own shoe named after them and multi-million dollar contract, the Olympics is simply considered a nuisance to many of them instead of a honor
I'm actually glad we're getting our butt kicked, so hopefully they'll completely redo the selection process for Team USA come next Olympics. Hopefully the players will be more motivated as well. After all, the original Dream Team came into being after we loss to Russia in 1988.
Anyway, there is simply no excuse why our team is doing bad. You can't blame it on the lack of practice, the 3 point line, or the refs. The team we sent to Athens is simply sub-par. With the exception of Duncan and maybe Iverson, the Team USA is full of arrogant rich teenagers who lack fundamental basketball skills. Seriously, if you're a small forward or a guard in the NBA, you should have NO problem hitting a wide OPEN medium range jump shot. These guys don't deserve to wear the same Team USA basketball uniforms that Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Magic, and Stockton wore before them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not just blaming the players in Athens. I also blame the players who couldn't be "bothered" to play for Team USA. In the day and age where pretty much every above average NBA player has their own shoe named after them and multi-million dollar contract, the Olympics is simply considered a nuisance to many of them instead of a honor
I'm actually glad we're getting our butt kicked, so hopefully they'll completely redo the selection process for Team USA come next Olympics. Hopefully the players will be more motivated as well. After all, the original Dream Team came into being after we loss to Russia in 1988.
Teddman said:
By that same token, if the international players would have a harder time with the line further out, wouldn't the US team have an easier time with it closer? Ahh, but they don't practice the 20 footer. That's the rub. The 20 foot three should be easier to guard since there is a smaller area to guard, but yet we can't guard it consistantly. I dare say it would be easier for international teams to get wider open looks from 23 feet than they do from the international line.
The reason we lost is simple. We didn't send a team. The team we did send can't play defense together. And they can't shoot. That's it. The international rules are inconsequential to the outcome imo. If we sent the Pistons, we would still be winning every game by 20 I think. The ball movement sets up the open looks, it's basketball 101. Our guys aren't patient enough, don't know each other well enough to set up in good position, and can't communicate on D. All of that comes with playing with each other.
Lithuania shot their asses off, and if it wasn't for a late flurry by blondie, they still would have lost. The US played well, but they could play so much better. I don't see how the international rules really hurt basketball.
Watch two euro teams play. Hell, how many backdoor layups did Lithuania get against us just off ball movement and positioning? The reason we got lit up from three today is because we couldn't guard the shot, not because it was so close.
To address the free throw problem you raised briefly, there is one reason we shoot so many free throws. They can't hang with our athleticism, and are forced to foul once we get into the paint. Like I said earlier, Lithuania was in heavy foul trouble but we stopped taking advantage of it. It also doesn't hurt that we can't hit a good percentage of the FTs.
yeah that was terrible, shes finished 4th in 2 other olympics (in track events) obviously the thought of a 3rd time was too much for her (it has got to SUCK to train 4 years and end up 4th in the olympics) she must be gutted as the world record holder (in the marathon) but she never was much good at actual racing.
There was no where for her to go though, just people clapping (wtf) and a dozen cameras watching her cry
GET PAULA RADCLIFFE A HUG STAT!
There was no where for her to go though, just people clapping (wtf) and a dozen cameras watching her cry
GET PAULA RADCLIFFE A HUG STAT!
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