Support NeoGAF

[Duck of Death]

I already voted for Kerry, but I don't loathe Bush or anything like that. But I don't think I can handle any more of Karen Hughes. She is such an evil and annoying bitch. I feel like I should have been turned to stone when she looked at me.

 

[The Shadow]

I wonder if the DNC will attack Bush on the Canadian drugs thing. FLIP-FLOP!

Or not being concerned and then being concerned about Osama. FLIP-FLOP!

 

[MetatronM]

Or not being concerned and then being concerned about Osama. FLIP-FLOP!

Forget about a flip-flop, that was a flat out lie to the American people, whether he knows it or not.

 

[quin]

wow... nbc just owned bush hard on osama....

 

[The Shadow]

wow... nbc just owned bush hard on osama....

Fuck I missed it. My fault for watching Fox News.

Did they replay that older speech when he said Osama wasn't a concern?

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#survey

 

[chimpychi]

wow... nbc just owned bush hard on osama....

what did they say?

 

[Incognito]

abc TV poll

42% kerry
41% bush
14% tie

breakdown:

38% republican
30% democrat
28% indepedents

 

[thefit]

Kerry 79% to 21% Bush when I voted.

 

[The Shadow]

abc TV poll

42% kerry
41% bush
14% tie

breakdown:

38% republican
30% democrat
28% indepedents

More Republicans polls but Kerry still comes out on top. Interesting.

 

[cvxfreak]

Fuck I missed it. My fault for watching Fox News.

Did they replay that older speech when he said Osama wasn't a concern?

FOX NEWS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Remind me to overcharge you on P.N. 03 2.

 

[quin]

yea, the played an old clip from 2002 whith him saying osama isn't a threat

taken from MSNBC

But in March 2002, Bush indeed said: “I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.” He described bin Laden at the time as “marginalized” and said, “I just don’t spend that much time on him.”

 

[AssMan]

Was O Reilly going to talk about him being sued at the end of his program? He got cut about 15 minutes before the debate started.

 

[The Shadow]

FOX NEWS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Remind me to overcharge you on P.N. 03 2.

That's not very fair and balanced of you.

 

[Diablos]

Once again no truly solid answers overall, but I think Kerry had the upper hand. Bush's best debate was his second one. Kerry did better in the first and now this one.

All I can say is go Kerry. He cannot lose this election.

 

[quin]

I hope this is a very legitimate question but are the polls really as close as everybody makes them out to be? I mean voter registration this year was at an all time high (at least in colorado) and none of those people are included in these polls they conduct, right? but i would think that all these newly registerd voters are "upset" with something and want to voice their opinion this year. I just think that if things were good now people wouldn't sign up to vote in such numbers cause people like to complain more than praise.

on the other hand watching the news the other day their are thousands of "fake" people who registered to vote this year in colorado so the numbers are overly wrong all because for every person you would sign up you would get 5 bucks!

 

[cvxfreak]

Was O Reilly going to talk about him being sued at the end of his program? He got cut about 15 minutes before the debate started.

That's a good thing. The less airtime with him, the better.

 

[Drensch]

none of those people are included in these polls they conduct, right? but i would think that all these newly registerd voters are "upset" with something and want to voice their opinion this year

That's the wildcard. It's a fact that when more people vote, dems do better. Hopefully all of those people that registered, vote. And hopefully their votes get counted.

 

[Alcibiades]

lmao off, I never really like the endless back and forth on stuff like Hannity and Colmes, it's tiring, but it was hilarious to see Hannity owning McAuliffe just now...

Hannity at his best...

the approach from conservatives is not to win or lose the debate, but to make sure the debate never ends...

:lol

poor McAuliffe just stumbling as Hannity wouldn't let him get a word in...

If Kerry wins, this will be the first time a liberal President will have the level of scrutiny from the media that we haven't seen, with radio, the internet, and FOX News now having gained large audiences over the large 4 years...

 

[heavy liquid]

I can't believe that Bush didn't use his "HE CAN RUUUN, BUT HE CAN'T HIIIDE!" line.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

"Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins."


Bush will never think to look here! Quote saved!

Sounds like W downgraded Osama to "nuisance."

And as with the other debates, my immediate reaction:
Final debate immediate thoughts... a lot of rehash again. I recognized many phrases and paragraphs from both the first and second debate. Again my views are of course closer to Kerry's than Bush's on... pretty much everything, but Bush did a pretty decent job of presenting himself. I might've been fooled by some of his insistences if I didn't know better. The one thing I feel will bite him in even the minutes ahead, that clip where he said "I don't think I ever said that. That's what you call an EXAGGERATION." Of course, it was denials like this that caused him and Cheney to look bad in the aftermath of the last couple debates, and I think it'll happen again here. I know I've seen the clip Kerry was referencing.

 

[VPhys]

"I sent my Budgetman up to Washington"

Quote of the night.

 

[Outlaw Pro Mod]

I think President Bush won this debate hands down. Senator Kerry looked worn down and ready to raise the white flag.

 

[Combine]

All I can say is go Kerry. He cannot lose this election.

But what if he does???

 

[The Shadow]

"I sent my Budgetman up to Washington"

Quote of the night.

 

[Outlaw Pro Mod]

He will. This is his election to lose. Senator Clinton has already written his concession speech for him.

 

[heavy liquid]

Kerry needed to do more of this during the debate:

KERRY: Yes. When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped.

Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, "Where is Osama bin Laden?"

He said, "I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned."

BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.

Of course we're worried about Osama bin Laden. We're on the hunt after Osama bin Laden. We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Over at dKos one can find other polling/focus group results. I'd paste them here, but I presume that would be frowned upon just as with all other polls? I think I'm only allowed to post polls where Nader is ahead. >_<

 

[The Shadow]

Kerry needed to do more of this during the debate:

KERRY: Yes. When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped.

Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, "Where is Osama bin Laden?"

He said, "I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned."

BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.

Of course we're worried about Osama bin Laden. We're on the hunt after Osama bin Laden. We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden.

If the DNC and the Kerry Campaign where smart, they'd point out that contradiction in future ads.

 

[heavy liquid]

I didn't notice that Michael J. Fox and his wife were sitting next to Kerry's wife. Poor Mike, I feel bad for him having to use Canadian third world drugs...

If the DNC and the Kerry Campaign where smart, they'd point out that contradiction in future ads.

I can only hope.

 

[Incognito]

cnn TV poll

kerry 52%
bush 39%

 

[MIMIC]

The entire lobby erupted in laughter at that "Paygo" comment. :lol :lol

 

[Keio]

"The borders with Mexico are much better protected today than they were when I was the governor of Texas."

After all three debates: Kerry 3 - Bush 0

 

[Outlaw Pro Mod]

The entire lobby was absolutely appauled when Kerry made the Cheney-Lesbian remark.

 

[MIMIC]

Just Googled Paygo.

Guess he was right...for once.

 

[Socreges]

I haven't read this thread, and I fucking refuse to watch CNN's post-debate tripe, so these are my own reflections.

Kerry, overall, answered questions deliberately, convincingly, and reasonably. Bush improved on the second debate, which was an improvement on the first, but he still could only match or top Kerry on a couple issues. I think he only appeared to have competed well because he set such poor standards during the other two nights. He was certainly more controlled and articulate, but realistically his answers were often irrelevant or untrue, and his responses the same. Talking points remained his principle focus, unfortunately, and I was very happy that Kerry didn't let him get away with much. When Kerry was on the attack, Bush couldn't do much to deter. But when Bush tried to turn it around, Kerry usually had a strong rebuttal, although he did push aside certain things.

To give Bush any credit after any of these debates would be a mistake. If he performed at all exceptionally, it's only because of the poor expectations people have of him.

Were my impressions one-sided? Yeah, no question. But I feel that I'm being fair. I never really liked Kerry until recently. Not because of where he stands on this or that, but with how he carries himself. Throughout these debates he's finally been assertive and seems very capable. And even with Bush, this is the first time that I've personally seen him as being independent and capable of improvising. I still hold him to the same criticisms, but I'm beginning to understand the person a little better. It's been interesting. Just interesting enough, though, that I'm satisfied and another four years won't be necessary, thank you!

Few Canadians are more interested in this bullshit than I am. But because I'm considering a major/minor in political science, I have a vested interest in America's future, besides just general interest (the past couple years, politically, have been a dumbfounding marvel). And, not to forget, this election WILL play a huge role in the world's future. Each American president invariably does, but this one is particularly important, I feel.

 

[Hitokage]

If Kerry wins, this will be the first time a liberal President will have the level of scrutiny from the media that we haven't seen, with radio, the internet, and FOX News now having gained large audiences over the large 4 years...

Yup, Kerry will be up against one of the more irresponsible and forgetful press corps we've had in a long while.

 

[Pochacco]

For the first time, I'm starting to think that Kerry might actually win this thing.

 

[MIMIC]

MSNBC needs to censor those signs that those people are waving in the background.

So far, I spotted:

"Kerry eats babies"

"BITCH (in reference to Bush and Cheney)"

"Weapons of Mass
Turbation"

:lol

 

[SalientOne]

Here are my takes on tonight's debate.

First a few disclaimers.

*Number 1: I am high as a kite on pain killers, having just had all my wisdom teeth removed.

*Number 2: I honestly believe the Bush administration is one of the most evil political structures to take power (in a first world nation) since Hitler and his Nazis.

*Number 3: I have never particularly liked Kerry until recently, and up until these debates viewed him as the only option for America to rid themselves of a dishonest, warmongering administration.

*Number 4: I am a Canadian, so none of this means fuck all when it comes to the November election. I am addicted to this election process because I think this is one of the single most important political decisions to face the world in our lifetime, but I am largely powerless in affecting its outcome.

That said, on to tonight's debate.

The short story is that Kerry beat Bush on substance and policy (and truthfulness), but I think Bush really hit his sweet spot in terms of style and presentation.

In the first debate, Bush came off as a COMPLETE BUFFOON. I was honestly petrified by the notion that this was the man who controls the most powerful military nation on the planet. It was that scary.

In debate number two Bush came off as a raving lunatic throughout the first half, swinging blindly at anyone who looked at him the wrong way and being truly confrontational about everything. He played right into Kerry's strategy of portraying Bush as someone who was incapable of finding common ground with the rest of the world, and only the most narrowminded, ignorant people out there would see this as a good thing.

Tonight, Bush regained his facade of the "compassionate conservative". His delivery throughout most of the debate was pitch perfect. The facts and policies he was espousing were largely untrue and flawed, but sadly that isn't what motivates mainstream America to vote. This was the first time since the days post-911 that Bush was able to portray himself as a reasonable human being. If I was the Kerry campaign team, this would worry me.

The president doesn't need to energize his base. The extremist right wing conservatives are there for him. All he has to do is avoid raping a black woman or killing a small infant over the next couple of weeks... and hell, the Secret Service would cover that shit up likety split, so he's out of the woods now. The mainstream Republicans are either gullible enough to buy into his portrayal of strong leadership (Bush has offically petitioned Oxford to revise the definition of stubborn to include "demonstraing strong leadership and character"), or rich enough to want his elitist domestic policies to remain in place.

All the president needs to win this thing is to reach across and pull in a few people sitting on the fence. Average people who don't want supercharged negative rhetoric and war-mongering, they want to feel a sense of identification with their president and believe he is someone they can trust.

CLEARLY HE IS NOT... but that's beside the point. Tonight's performance is preceisely what he needs to hoodwink these poor unfortunates.

It does not bode well for Kerry et al.

Yes, Kerry won on substance and debating technique, but I think the president may have rescued his cause with his delivery and presence.

 

[Socreges]

**flashes the Maple Leaf sign to Solomon**

 

[ErasureAcer]

It's baaaaaack!

To me, it was quite clear that Bush was pausing so often and talking soooooo slow because someone was feeding him lines.

Bush has cheated...or otherwise...this is his long devil's tail that he has taped to his back.

 

[videogamer]

Gah he needs a new tailor. Assuming he isn't wearing anything underneath, it still looks bad aethestically.

 

[Banjo Tango]

It's baaaaaack!

To put an end to this theory, Schieffer should have demanded a strip-off.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Just watching the debate now. How many times is Bush going to say "jobs of the 21st century?" And how many times is he going to bring up education, and no child left behind when the question has nothing to do with education? Bush's repsonse to outsourcing jobs to other countries was to provide funding for people to return to community college to gain the skills needed for "jobs of the 21st century?" Well, what about college graduates (i.e. programmers), who are very capable in their professions, that lose their jobs to outsourcing? They should return to community college? LOL. Bush sounds beyond fucking clueless. This guy is an idiot.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Got back from the debate at Gammage (ASU) a few hours ago (I live in Tempe)...Kerry stomped Bush on most every issue, IMO. For a while there, it looked to be a good night for both, but despite a few retorts that were a bit too vague, Kerry absolutely seemed to understand every one of the issues at hand. Aside from a few really well-delivered replies, Bush was just so ... Bush.

Sad that the the Kerry rally at TBP (with the Foo Fighters) was probably the best thing, though. I was hoping that, somehow, this last debate could've really taken off the kid gloves and drawn some harder lines between the two platforms, but it seemed that was not to be...

Still +1 for Kerry come November.

 

[Shouta]

Kerry definitely was on the ball although his numbers seem a bit fuzzy.

Bush seriously shot himself in the foot twice for dodging the question on job outsourcing THEN insulting everyone that lost their jobs in the last 4 years.

 

[Dilbert]

Kerry destroyed Bush again, but at this point, it's getting predictable.

I'm very surprised that Kerry didn't point out more often that Bush was usually avoiding the question, or answering with stuff that didn't make ANY sense. I mean, would he tell a software engineer who had just lost his job to outsourcing that he should go to COMMUNITY COLLEGE? And is that voice in his head telling him to overturn Roe vs. Wade and invade other countries REALLY God, or just an echo?

 

[AniHawk]

Bush might have to go to a community college soon.

 

[DarienA]

This is the poll they usually do immediately following the debates:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/snap.poll/index.html

Immediately after the presidential debate found that respondents gave a significant edge to Kerry over Bush, 52 percent to 39 percent.

The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

The numbers were similar to the results of a poll taken the night of the first debate September 30 in Miami, Florida. That night Kerry was favored by a 53 percent to 37 percent margin.

Kerry and Bush were almost even in the second debate on October 5, with the numbers falling with the margin of error.

The respondents Wednesday were 511 registered voters who watched the debate. Their political affiliations broke down as 36 percent Republican, 36 percent Democratic and 28 percent independent.

The poll is a reflection of immediate impressions of only those voters who saw the debate on television, and cannot be applied to all registered voters. Views of all Americans can change in the days after a debate.

Kerry scored big gains, as 42 percent of respondents said they had a more favorable opinion of him after the debate. Bush only increased with 27 percent of those polled.

When asked who would handle domestic issues better, Kerry scored higher in health care (55-41). There was no clear leader on the economy (Kerry 51, Bush 46), education (Kerry 48, Bush 47) or taxes (Bush 50, Kerry 47).

Kerry's biggest win came on the question of who expressed himself better, where 61 percent of respondents chose him over Bush (29 percent).

The president was viewed as more likeable, but Kerry appeared to respondents as having the better understanding of issues (49-37).

As expected, both campaigns declared their candidate the clear victor.

"I think tonight that Americans saw someone who's ready to be commander-in-chief," said Mary Beth Cahill, Kerry's campaign manager. "Someone who has plans for where he wants to lead this country. I think that he did extraordinarily well and he delivered a faithful and optimistic vision of where the country can go in the future."

Karl Rove, a senior adviser to Bush, disputed the accuracy of such instant polls, noting that a similar snap poll in 1984 showed Walter Mondale won the second debate with President Reagan.

"The president was the clear, commanding victor tonight," Rove said. "It's going to give us a great momentum rolling out on the trail here for the last 19 days."