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Official "I need a new PC!!" 2009 Edition

viciouskillersquirrel said:
Does anyone have any recommended specs for a good media centre PC? I'm tossing up between getting a PS3 and using that as my media centre or simply building a media centre PC.

- It'd be hooked up to a 1080p HDTV via HDMI or VGA
- I'd want it to to be able to play HD movies without any issues/jitters
- I'd want it to have a Blu-Ray drive and a large, reliable HDD
- If possible, I'd want it to have a lightning-fast startup
- I would want it to be as small/unobtrusive as possible
Something like this build from Tech Report should fit the bill. You could stick a 1TB Caviar Green in there and be set. You might have to do a little searching to get the right case/Blu-Ray combo, since their recommendation uses a slim-line optical drive.

The GeForce 9300 chip in that build can decode 1080p MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264 without dropping frames. So unless the PS3 does some special post-processing that I don't know about, it should be very comparable.

Depending on your budget, you could use an SSD as your boot drive to improve startup times. I generally just leave my HTPC in sleep mode, though -- it still draws a few watts of power while sleeping, but it resumes near-instantly when I need it.
 
JdFoX187 said:
So I checked CPU Z and while I tried to run Far Cry 2 or Call of Duty World at War, which was barely struggling to hit 30 FPS, my CPU's core speed never topped 1865 MHz. But for some reason, the temperature is pretty high on it. It's been running around 93C. I have it properly ventelated, the case has three fans running and the fan is blowing. I'm guessing the CPU is why things are so bad. But when I ran the 3D Mark test, the two GPU tests struggled to top 20 or 30 FPS. Think I just might take this to a PC shop in the area and have them give it a looksee and maybe fix it.

Sounds like the CPU is throttling itself. Reseat the HS/F.

Dynamic3 said:
Is there a way to build a PC now and have it ready for DX11 cards (nVidia) so all you need to do is drop them in, or are they going to require new MOBO/CPU/MBs?

Any PC built in the last ~5 years will be able to take a DX11 GPU. They just require a PCIe x16 slot and a suitable PSU.


UraMallas said:
Will I need a dual link DVI card for a 26" monitor. Sorry if this is vague, but I'm wondering if one would typically need dual link for a 26" screen.

Are we talking a 2560x1600 resolution (or similar) monitor here? Yeah, you'll probably need dual link DVI, but then pretty much every card ships with dual link DVI (a very select few will drop it in favour of native HDMI) connections so its a non issue really.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Does anyone have any recommended specs for a good media centre PC? I'm tossing up between getting a PS3 and using that as my media centre or simply building a media centre PC.

- It'd be hooked up to a 1080p HDTV via HDMI or VGA
- I'd want it to to be able to play HD movies without any issues/jitters
- I'd want it to have a Blu-Ray drive and a large, reliable HDD
- If possible, I'd want it to have a lightning-fast startup
- I would want it to be as small/unobtrusive as possible

Don't use a closed box platform as a media centre, you will regret it later on.

I'd build something with Zotac's mini ITX motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022

Stick in a cheap E5200 for the CPU, and use MPC-HC for video being sure to use the built in DVXA support so that the integrated GPU does the decoding.

Use a small 32GB for the boot drive, and store your media elsewhere in a NAS box
 

tenritsu

Banned
What's up GAF. This thread seems to be primarily dominated by desktop questions, but I thought I'd ask a laptop question.

I've got a pretty tight budget at about 500-600 USD to get a laptop for college.

The one I've got my eyes set on is this machine right here: http://www.buy.com/prod/acer-aspire...-72-2-1ghz-15-6-wxga/q/loc/101/211061681.html

For those lazy to click here are its specs: Turion X2 RM-72 (2.1 ghz, bout 10 to sometimes 20% slower than the C2D equiv I think, but it's enough I think), 3 gigs ram, 320 gig hd, integrated ati hd 3200.

For 500 bucks, I'm thinking it's a steal. I know it's slower than the Core 2 Duo equiv laptops, but I've been dying to play some pc games, and while I know (ya don't have to remind me haha) it's not gonna get me super hi resolution or detailed, the 3200 is plenty for now. (Saw the Anandtech article comparing the QL-64 to the C2D t6500. Since the QL-64 is just the RM-72 with one less power state, I'm basing my opinions on that plus videos from gameplay using similar specs I've seen on youtube :lol )

My question is, have any of you guys encountered laptops of similar specs or better (taking into account the gpu) for around 500-600? There's pretty much no wiggle room as I've got to budget my money.
 

Firestorm

Member
Are you sure you're comparing the laptop 3200? There's also a desktop card called the same thing. CPU isn't going to be the big thing to look at if you want to game. GPU is. This laptop can hardly play older games at a decent framerate at less than native resolution =/
 

yanhero

Member
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Does anyone have any recommended specs for a good media centre PC? I'm tossing up between getting a PS3 and using that as my media centre or simply building a media centre PC.

- It'd be hooked up to a 1080p HDTV via HDMI or VGA
- I'd want it to to be able to play HD movies without any issues/jitters
- I'd want it to have a Blu-Ray drive and a large, reliable HDD
- If possible, I'd want it to have a lightning-fast startup
- I would want it to be as small/unobtrusive as possible


I would just get a PS3. Playing bluray discs through HDMI with lossless audio on PC is really quite annoying and will most definately cost more than a PS3 now that it's only 299. You get to play all those PS3 exclusives games too, obviously.
 
yanhero said:
I would just get a PS3. Playing bluray discs through HDMI with lossless audio on PC is really quite annoying and will most definately cost more than a PS3 now that it's only 299. You get to play all those PS3 exclusives games too, obviously.


you can't use netflix or rip all your dvds on to your HDD, or use it as functional media center to watch live tv or recorded tv.

on another point if they ever update apple tv to support blue ray i think that would make a nice little media center thingy.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
tenritsu said:
What's up GAF. This thread seems to be primarily dominated by desktop questions, but I thought I'd ask a laptop question.

I've got a pretty tight budget at about 500-600 USD to get a laptop for college.

The one I've got my eyes set on is this machine right here: http://www.buy.com/prod/acer-aspire...-72-2-1ghz-15-6-wxga/q/loc/101/211061681.html

For those lazy to click here are its specs: Turion X2 RM-72 (2.1 ghz, bout 10 to sometimes 20% slower than the C2D equiv I think, but it's enough I think), 3 gigs ram, 320 gig hd, integrated ati hd 3200.

For 500 bucks, I'm thinking it's a steal. I know it's slower than the Core 2 Duo equiv laptops, but I've been dying to play some pc games, and while I know (ya don't have to remind me haha) it's not gonna get me super hi resolution or detailed, the 3200 is plenty for now. (Saw the Anandtech article comparing the QL-64 to the C2D t6500. Since the QL-64 is just the RM-72 with one less power state, I'm basing my opinions on that plus videos from gameplay using similar specs I've seen on youtube :lol )

My question is, have any of you guys encountered laptops of similar specs or better (taking into account the gpu) for around 500-600? There's pretty much no wiggle room as I've got to budget my money.

Search this forum for similar posts, you'll find there's a few dozen a day, like this one here. You'll have to probably go back 10 or 20 pages, but you should come up with quite a few choices.

Seems you'll probably want a 9400M at a bare minimum.
 
yanhero said:
I would just get a PS3. Playing bluray discs through HDMI with lossless audio on PC is really quite annoying and will most definately cost more than a PS3 now that it's only 299. You get to play all those PS3 exclusives games too, obviously.


he needs a media center, not a closed box.
 

tenritsu

Banned
Firestorm said:
Are you sure you're comparing the laptop 3200? There's also a desktop card called the same thing. CPU isn't going to be the big thing to look at if you want to game. GPU is. This laptop can hardly play older games at a decent framerate at less than native resolution =/

Yea, they did a laptop to laptop comparison the mobile HD 3200 to the intel 4500MHD... the MHD wasn't even close, and the 3200

Here's the page I was referencing: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3618&p=8

The only real difference between their system and the one I looked at is the 4 vs 3 gigs of ram. I'm not too worried about that and I can upgrade if I really wanted to in the future.

Minsc: thanks for the link. I'll take a look. Yea, the 9400m is definitely better, and it'd be pretty sweet if I could find a system with that, but for what I'm looking for the 3200 seems to be for all intents and purposes a good fit for me.

Firestorm: That looks pretty decent actually. I'll compare later.
 

asdad123

Member
tenritsu said:
Yea, they did a laptop to laptop comparison the mobile HD 3200 to the intel 4500MHD... the MHD wasn't even close, and the 3200

Here's the page I was referencing: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3618&p=8

The only real difference between their system and the one I looked at is the 4 vs 3 gigs of ram. I'm not too worried about that and I can upgrade if I really wanted to in the future.

Minsc: thanks for the link. I'll take a look. Yea, the 9400m is definitely better, and it'd be pretty sweet if I could find a system with that, but for what I'm looking for the 3200 seems to be for all intents and purposes a good fit for me.

Firestorm: That looks pretty decent actually. I'll compare later.

If you dont mind not having a CD drive (You can easily pick up a USB CD drive for about $50 somewhere later on), think about the Dell Studio 14z.
It has a 9400m like you want, and if you look in the Dell Outlet you can find a really good deal. Right now there is one with a 2.1 Ghz C2D , 320gb hdd, 3gb memory for 620. There are always 15% off coupons floating around for the dell outlet so that can knock down the price to about $530, well within your price range.
 

Firestorm

Member
For PS3 vs HTPC:
If you don't own a PS3, want the exclusives, and both the PS3 and your regular PC are within WIRED range of your router, you could go with PS3 + PS3 Media Server. This is also assuming your PC is good enough to transcode on the fly (my laptop can do 720p just fine).

If not, get an HTPC.
 
tenritsu said:
Yea, they did a laptop to laptop comparison the mobile HD 3200 to the intel 4500MHD... the MHD wasn't even close, and the 3200

Here's the page I was referencing: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3618&p=8

The only real difference between their system and the one I looked at is the 4 vs 3 gigs of ram. I'm not too worried about that and I can upgrade if I really wanted to in the future.

Minsc: thanks for the link. I'll take a look. Yea, the 9400m is definitely better, and it'd be pretty sweet if I could find a system with that, but for what I'm looking for the 3200 seems to be for all intents and purposes a good fit for me.

Firestorm: That looks pretty decent actually. I'll compare later.

Ofcourse its better than Intel integrated graphics, but then that's like saying drinking warm piss is more pleasent than eating a nice steaming dog turd, sure its correct, doesn't stop the comparison from being utterly worthless though, either.

You're obviously interested in PC gaming in some capacity, as such I just think you're setting yourself up for serious disappointment. There's just no way you're going to be satisfied with the gaming performance of that thing. Save your pennies.
 
Firestorm said:
For PS3 vs HTPC:
If you don't own a PS3, want the exclusives, and both the PS3 and your regular PC are within WIRED range of your router, you could go with PS3 + PS3 Media Server. This is also assuming your PC is good enough to transcode on the fly (my laptop can do 720p just fine).

If not, get an HTPC.

Transcoding really isn't a solution, running two machines at once in order to watch a movie whilst suffering inferior picture quality to boot just isn't at all elegant. Nor is it foolproof or without its restrictions. A HTPC has to be open box to be useful, you're just asking for future headaches, or support problems if you don't go that route. Its not as if the hardware is cheaply priced or available in suitable for factors anymore. There's loads of great options these days.

What happens if a new codec becomes standard after the PS3's major support from Sony ahs dried up? You're utterly SOL that's what.
 

Firestorm

Member
PS3 Media Server isn't by Sony. An HTPC is obviously a better choice than a PS3 for media, but if he does really want PS3 games as well, it's a decent compromise as long as he's on a wired network and things are close by.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
I know the thread is mainly about PCs, but any good recommandations for gaming laptops? I have a feeling I'll be needing to go a bit more portable here in the next few months but don't want to miss out on the PC goodness (can plug the laptop into the 720p TV to play as well).
 

Firestorm

Member
Kintaro said:
I know the thread is mainly about PCs, but any good recommandations for gaming laptops? I have a feeling I'll be needing to go a bit more portable here in the next few months but don't want to miss out on the PC goodness (can plug the laptop into the 720p TV to play as well).
I keep hearing in t his topic that nVidia will have some good chips coming out that will double the performance and efficiency so might be good to wait.
 

asdad123

Member
Kintaro said:
I know the thread is mainly about PCs, but any good recommandations for gaming laptops? I have a feeling I'll be needing to go a bit more portable here in the next few months but don't want to miss out on the PC goodness (can plug the laptop into the 720p TV to play as well).
This One is what I have
I easily overclocked the CPU to 2.4 GHz via SetFSB and the videocard up a little with Riva Tuner and Dox drivers and it plays all my game well, even Crysis on High/Very High is playable to me. I hooked it up to my 1080p Bravia via both HDMI and VGA and both work perfectly. The computer detects the TV and changes the resolution automatically.
If you want a faster processor, Newegg has different revisions with faster CPUS (Even a Quad Core CPU)

It does run hot (90C for the GPU) but according to Asus, that is not a problem and the laptop was designed to run in those temperatures.
 

tenritsu

Banned
brain_stew said:
Ofcourse its better than Intel integrated graphics, but then that's like saying drinking warm piss is more pleasent than eating a nice steaming dog turd, sure its correct, doesn't stop the comparison from being utterly worthless though, either.

You're obviously interested in PC gaming in some capacity, as such I just think you're setting yourself up for serious disappointment. There's just no way you're going to be satisfied with the gaming performance of that thing. Save your pennies.

Haha oh believe me, I know it's piss poor. My previous GPUS were some shitty S3 card, nvidia mx440, nividia geforce 5500 and a geforce 6150. As you can see, I'm used to shit, tons of it :lol

The bottom line is that 500-600 is my budget, I'm going to have to get a laptop for college, and my parents are only willing to shell out that amount with no exceptions even though I could conceivably up the budget up 2-300 dollars. I figure once I have my own financial freedom I'll end up building a desktop anyways so this'll hold me over. At the moment, all I want to do is play Bioshock (Got it off steam during the 5 bucks sale:lol ) and run at 30+ fps doesn't even matter bout resolution or settings. I'll have access to 360s and ps3s at the dorm anyways, so gaming is just secondary. I just wondered if other people had found better specced systems at that price.

The studio 14z seems interesting though. I'm not at a rush to get it, so might as well search around.
 

asdad123

Member
tenritsu said:
Haha oh believe me, I know it's piss poor. My previous GPUS were some shitty S3 card, nvidia mx440, nividia geforce 5500 and a geforce 6150. As you can see, I'm used to shit, tons of it :lol

The bottom line is that 500-600 is my budget, I'm going to have to get a laptop for college, and my parents are only willing to shell out that amount with no exceptions even though I could conceivably up the budget up 2-300 dollars. I figure once I have my own financial freedom I'll end up building a desktop anyways so this'll hold me over. At the moment, all I want to do is play Bioshock (Got it off steam during the 5 bucks sale:lol ) and run at 30+ fps doesn't even matter bout resolution or settings. I'll have access to 360s and ps3s at the dorm anyways, so gaming is just secondary. I just wondered if other people had found better specced systems at that price.

The studio 14z seems interesting though. I'm not at a rush to get it, so might as well search around.

If you could up the budget a little, pick up this for $750.
It will run almost any game you throw at it (with the exception of crysis) on high with playable settings.
You can go through Bing and get 10% back making the laptop 675ish. Very good laptop with a 9800m, 4gb memory, 2.13GHz C2D for the price.
 
Having a laptop with no ability to play games and a desktop PC is always a better setup than a laptop that tries to be two things at once.
 

Ceebs

Member
Anyone have any idea what TMPIN2 is? It always says 79 degrees even when the PC first boots up. I would like to say that it is a misreading or something but I just want to be safe....
1433syq.jpg
 

Chris R

Member
Ceebs said:
Anyone have any idea what TMPIN2 is? It always says 79 degrees even when the PC first boots up. I would like to say that it is a misreading or something but I just want to be safe....
1433syq.jpg
From Extreme Overclocking

TMPIN2 is a 'dead' sensor. It's on the chip, but not connected to anything, hence the strange readouts.
 
asdad123 said:
If you could up the budget a little, pick up this for $750.
It will run almost any game you throw at it (with the exception of crysis) on high with playable settings.
You can go through Bing and get 10% back making the laptop 675ish. Very good laptop with a 9800m, 4gb memory, 2.13GHz C2D for the price.

This x 1000.

You'll be getting roughly 10x the performance with that thing, any game will play great at native resolution, including Crysis. Its an awesome little machine.
 

DMczaf

Member
I want to build a PC on around an $800 budget. This is my first time building, so I've been asking friends for help on what I should look for, etc. I'm hoping GAF can recommend a build for me. This is what I'm looking at right now. If you have any suggestions, please offer them.


http://i25.tinypic.com/vutjt.jpg
 
mike0513 said:
Thanks for the heads up man, Newegg has never failed me (....well unless you count their shite packaging lol)


all my expensive stuff just came in a box held together with tissue paper, i wished they used packing peanuts. Wish me luck i hope none of my shit is DOA...... knock on wood
 
Firestorm said:
PS3 Media Server isn't by Sony. An HTPC is obviously a better choice than a PS3 for media, but if he does really want PS3 games as well, it's a decent compromise as long as he's on a wired network and things are close by.


My PC + PS3 + PS3 Media server has been nothing short of amazing for me. As long as you have high quality media, a good PC for transcoding and the network is wired it works flawlessly.
 
Technosteve said:
all my expensive stuff just came in a box held together with tissue paper, i wished they used packing peanuts. Wish me luck i hope none of my shit is DOA...... knock on wood

Yeah pretty much. I was highly disappointed in the presentation of the box. It looked like it had been dropped from the truck while going 60 on the freeway. This bitch better boot up, I am hearing a lot of complaints about DOA on the Sapphire GPU's.
 

Dennis

Banned
TheHeretic said:
Having a laptop with no ability to play games and a desktop PC is always a better setup than a laptop that tries to be two things at once.
The truth spoken right there.

I have a cheap laptop for office-type things on the go and a desktop beast for Gaming, Photoshop/Illustrator and Math/Science things.
 

Coldsnap

Member
I'm agreeing on cheap laptop and a good home PC combo. Its nice to not constantly worry about your laptop while carrying around.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Firestorm said:
PS3 Media Server isn't by Sony. An HTPC is obviously a better choice than a PS3 for media, but if he does really want PS3 games as well, it's a decent compromise as long as he's on a wired network and things are close by.

There are advantages to a PS3:

1) Better Blu-ray support and DVD quality (in terms of scaling/de-interlacing).
2) Faster bootup

If, like me, you always have your PC on, then the PS3 works very nicely with PS3MediaServer. Also, since my PC is near my TV, I can watch videos through the PS3 while I play games or surf on the PC (though that can also be setup on a PC as well through dual monitors).

brain_stew said:
Transcoding really isn't a solution, running two machines at once in order to watch a movie whilst suffering inferior picture quality to boot just isn't at all elegant. Nor is it foolproof or without its restrictions. A HTPC has to be open box to be useful, you're just asking for future headaches, or support problems if you don't go that route. Its not as if the hardware is cheaply priced or available in suitable for factors anymore. There's loads of great options these days.

I don't know why, but I get vastly superior picture quality streaming media through my PS3. I have CoreAVC and NVidia PureVideo on the PC side.
 

Firestorm

Member
tenritsu said:
Haha oh believe me, I know it's piss poor. My previous GPUS were some shitty S3 card, nvidia mx440, nividia geforce 5500 and a geforce 6150. As you can see, I'm used to shit, tons of it :lol

The bottom line is that 500-600 is my budget, I'm going to have to get a laptop for college, and my parents are only willing to shell out that amount with no exceptions even though I could conceivably up the budget up 2-300 dollars. I figure once I have my own financial freedom I'll end up building a desktop anyways so this'll hold me over. At the moment, all I want to do is play Bioshock (Got it off steam during the 5 bucks sale:lol ) and run at 30+ fps doesn't even matter bout resolution or settings. I'll have access to 360s and ps3s at the dorm anyways, so gaming is just secondary. I just wondered if other people had found better specced systems at that price.

The studio 14z seems interesting though. I'm not at a rush to get it, so might as well search around.
Check out the Dell University discounts by picking your school:
http://delllounge.com/delluniversity/
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Why did nVidia change their desktop resizer for TVs? Before it seemed to just scale the desktop size but keep whatever resolution it was set at which worked perfectly for playing on my TV, but now it actually changes the resolution so when I'm playing a game the edges of the screen are cut off :(

Are there any alternatives?
 
TheExodu5 said:
There are advantages to a PS3:

1) Better Blu-ray support and DVD quality (in terms of scaling/de-interlacing).
2) Faster bootup

If, like me, you always have your PC on, then the PS3 works very nicely with PS3MediaServer. Also, since my PC is near my TV, I can watch videos through the PS3 while I play games or surf on the PC (though that can also be setup on a PC as well through dual monitors).



I don't know why, but I get vastly superior picture quality streaming media through my PS3. I have CoreAVC and NVidia PureVideo on the PC side.

Media Player Classic - Home Cinema is untouchable as far as I'm concerned. Excellent scaling options and full DVXA support. FFDShow is always worth messing around with, you absolutely can match and surpass the image quality of a PS3 with the right software, though I have to admit I was very impressed with the PS3's DVD playback when I had one.

I'll never be a fan of using two machines to do one job. Transcoding a HD stream pretty much ruins your chances of doing any intensive work on the PC at the same time and it also means no fast forward, I could never get use to that. Hogging up our whole networks bandwidth with uncompressed HD video is hardly something I'd want to make a common event, though I guess gigabit ehternet sorts that out.

I just don't like the idea being of being constrained to a single interface, a single user input device, and a very specific set of requirements. A HTPC without flexibility just isn't for me. I like the idea that if a new HDMI standard for 3D BD gets formalised I just need to buy a new GPU not a whole nex box and that I know I'll forever have a multitude os solutions and options to any one problem. A proper HTPC solution just offers so much more, a closed box is never going to be able to match it, you'll always be compromising something.
 
Ysiadmihi said:
Why did nVidia change their desktop resizer for TVs? Before it seemed to just scale the desktop size but keep whatever resolution it was set at which worked perfectly for playing on my TV, but now it actually changes the resolution so when I'm playing a game the edges of the screen are cut off :(

Are there any alternatives?

Does your TV not have a "just scan" or "1:1" mode? What resolution are you outputting? Any reason you can'y just use an earlier driver revision?
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Anyone know if a Laptop with input for video exists? I know most new stuff, like from Sony, has HDMI output but a laptop screen with actual input would be great. It shouldn't be that great of a cost right?
 

Shambles

Member
Got a tech question. I recently connected my Palit 4870 to my Onkyo TX-SR605 through the DVI->HDMI adapter and have my receiver outputting to my monitor. However when I set the PC to the proper resolution of 1680x1050 somewhere along the line the image is slightly stretched out and blurred. The monitor works perfect with other devices so it's either the GPU or the receiver, probably the Onkyo. Has anyone else run into this and figured out a way to solve this so that the video is not altered in anyway when it passes through the receiver?
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
brain_stew said:
Does your TV not have a "just scan" or "1:1" mode? What resolution are you outputting? Any reason you can'y just use an earlier driver revision?

Er, I have no idea. There is a mode called "Just" or something so maybe I should try that. Also I don't want to use older drivers just for that :p

Edit: "Just" mode on my TV just stretches the picture out a little bit.
 

FreezeSSC

Member
Hello gaf,

At the end of this month I'm going to building a new PC I'm really excited about it. I have a budget of about $800-$1000 and I'm contemplating a i7 build. Can anyone provide any reason if i should or shouldn't? could it be possible with my budget? I plan on getting back into PC gaming and will be using this rig for my com engineer classes (i.e. C++/MATLAB) so if anyone could give me some advice or recommendations on builds it would be greatly appreciated!!
 

Firestorm

Member
Teetris said:
Anyone know if a Laptop with input for video exists? I know most new stuff, like from Sony, has HDMI output but a laptop screen with actual input would be great. It shouldn't be that great of a cost right?
None that I know of =(
 
I am installing vista on my black beast. But on a sad note I found out my graphics card is one of those bad batches, damn you sapphire 4890 vapor x. I dunno what other card to get to replace this.
 
Whats the best combo price/performance?, i keep seeing the HD4890 at excellent prices, and the amd phantom II cpu's also seem to be good considering the price.
 
Technosteve said:
I am installing vista on my black beast. But on a sad note I found out my graphics card is one of those bad batches, damn you sapphire 4890 vapor x. I dunno what other card to get to replace this.


what bad batches?
 
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