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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread
- Thread starter Diablos
- Start date
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I prefer the ultra poetic lyrics of the Melancholy era but the guitars in some of these new tracks are stellar.
fly high ~ayunite~ said:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=262627
Panic! At the Disco started a 100% blink-182 cover band. Somehow I doubt they wouldn't exist if not for the Great Billy Corgan.
(And whether or not you like bands like Panic! or MCR, that's not the point. Try and leave that out of this.)
That's why some people hate him: he's a pretentious ass.
So many people are disappointed and/or hate the new album.
I tend to think that when bands start to KNOW that they were awesome and at least somewhat important, that's when they start to suck. Because they try to be THEM. Purposely. Instead of just letting it happen.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
a lot of people love the new album too
people hate billy corgan for the same reason that people hate the yankees: he has had great success at creating music that people love. a lot of people want to be in a band and have the kind of influence that corgan has, but they just aren't as talented. opinions are opnions and i know some people get paid for the journalistic "talent" and an "ear for music", but some of the reviews i've read are just so rife with anti-corgan bias that i can't see how anyone can take it seriously. it is almost like a sony executive critiquing the 360. dumb shit fanboy rants and cheap shots at people. hey assholes, if corgan sucks so much balls and is now so talentless why don't you create your own band and show the world what GOOD music is? oh thats right, you are just some douchebag writer who hasn't done dick with his life but become a douchebag writer who earns his money coming up with "witty" insults and putting together sarcastic web articles about a band/artist. nice!
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
i'm being careful in my final judgement of zeitgeist. even though i think billy corgan is the most talented musician today i've been skeptical to jump up and praise everything he does since zwan. i'll admit my fan boy-ism blinded me when mary star was released and i went around going on about how great an album it was but in retrospect it was an amazingly mediocre record for something billy would put out.
i think the new smashing pumpkins is sort of an evolution of things tried in zwan (which was the last guitar-heavy record he did, so that is logical) but its more of a 'zwan done right,' if you will. and darker, heavier. but it just feels like it shouldve been more in some ways
also, concept-wise... i find the political theme nebulous at best. i was pretty stoked when i heard this was going to be an indictment on the current state of affairs, because this is the perfect time in US history to do so. but flipping through the lyrics book theres really nothing profound here. and while some songs really have that "lets fight back/revolution" feel, a lot dont - which kind of detracts from the cohesiveness
i think the new smashing pumpkins is sort of an evolution of things tried in zwan (which was the last guitar-heavy record he did, so that is logical) but its more of a 'zwan done right,' if you will. and darker, heavier. but it just feels like it shouldve been more in some ways
also, concept-wise... i find the political theme nebulous at best. i was pretty stoked when i heard this was going to be an indictment on the current state of affairs, because this is the perfect time in US history to do so. but flipping through the lyrics book theres really nothing profound here. and while some songs really have that "lets fight back/revolution" feel, a lot dont - which kind of detracts from the cohesiveness
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
zwan sucked ass (save for probably 4 songs the band ever did... mary star, honestly, ride a black swan, spilled milk), and his solo record was just ok. it's true that only time will tell where zeitgeist fits into the pumpkins records, but to call it a piece of shit and basically just take jab after jab at corgan is a joke (not that you were just saying in general)
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
ever since ~1998 its just been - for lack of a better word - unfashionable to be an SP fan or to give the the band merit in general. it so happens their sound kind of coincided with the mid-ninties movement so the hipster journalist and poser kids went out and bought records and wore zero shirts and went to shows but ever since then billy's done his own thing. because the band was so big the pitchfork critic demographic will never give them credit because they're "mainstream" and the mainstream audience sort of halfass accepted everything post MCIS.
but i dont really care though. i just hope that billy doesnt just say "**** it. i'm going to get ridiculed either way. so i give up." but the guys such a workaholic i guess that'll never happen. but around the TFE era he stated his frustration numerous times and how it'd be easier just to call it a day
but i dont really care though. i just hope that billy doesnt just say "**** it. i'm going to get ridiculed either way. so i give up." but the guys such a workaholic i guess that'll never happen. but around the TFE era he stated his frustration numerous times and how it'd be easier just to call it a day
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
guys if any of you SERIOUSLY believe that billy corgan wrote that letter.... wow
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm sorry, but this album is mediocre at best. There's a dozen bands that have released albums within the last year that sound 20X better than this. Everyone I know has said they don't like Turantula, which was my first impression of the song. I figured it could be their Cherub Rock or Bullet with Butterfly Wings though and that there would be better songs on the album. Sadly, this isn't the case. While Billy is one of the best guitar players around these days, the music in this CD is very average. While he did bring a few cool tricks to the CD, it's not enough to overpower the awful, awful job that was done on his vocals and the final mixing of the CD. The studio is the place to get things right, to get things as perfect as the can be. Billy's lazy approach to vocals since Siamese Dream released are the primary reason for their demise. They need to take more time in the studio to get it sounding right. You can get away with sounding like that live, because the performance and atmosphere make up for it, but in the studio, every mistake is noticed. I realize there are fans out there that will like what they release no matter what, but this CD compares very much to Metallica/St. Anger. People are just trying too hard to like it without taking the blinders off and recognizing the CD for what it is. I'm glad the Pumpkins are back together, but I hope there next CD is more fulfilling. Like St. Anger, I can't think of any reason to continue listening to Zeitgiest. It just doesn't deliver.
For real. Deerhunter and Caribou, too. Anyone saying "AOTY 2007" needs to get out more. And that is coming from someone who at one point dwarfed all you MFs in SP fandom, or put another way, someone who actually WANTS to like it -- which many people don't. Even a neutral/objective ear would be far more inclined to simply dismiss Zeitgeist. It is, after all, pretty "rehashy," nevermind being a naked attempt at recapturing the "alternative" mantle that BC had already dismissed as either boring or unprofitable enough to abandon in the first place. And that's before I get to the qualitative statements about the material itself...Grimmy said:
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you've already told us a million times that you were once a billion times the pumpkins fan we all were combined. why is it so hard to accept that some people actually like the record? whether it is an affinity towards sp, or billy corgan, or "alternative" music, or whatever, why would it be impossible for someone to think this was the best record of the year? i personally don't think it is the best record of the year but if someone does how are they wrong in their own opinion? "get out more" haha. why are any of those bands/albums you named by default better than zeitgeist to everyone else?
p.s. everyone i know likes tarantula. see what i did there?
p.s. everyone i know likes tarantula. see what i did there?
Grimmy said:
yeh i'm sorry but i dont agree simply because youre going by european hype; none of those are popular over here and i'm guessing you hear em all the time in europe.
clearly this album is not for you because your relating to soft rock, and thats not what smashing pumpkins are all about. smashing pumpkins do new things all the time while these fad bands are forgotten after a few years.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i don't know, i guess you could say i need to diversify my music listening a bit. i am exposed to a lot of different music but i dont like most of it. i've got my friends who listen to shitty hip hop, my friends who listen to pussy bands like the shins and dinosaur jr., my friends who listen to crappy prog rock tool rip offs, etc. why is it hard to accept i like the sp album a lot? and PLEASE don't say the bjork record is good. it is god awful. neon bible i do like and the new explosions in the sky i like a lot.
come over to my house and we'll listen to music together old friend! you can tell me what i can enjoy without having to justify it
come over to my house and we'll listen to music together old friend! you can tell me what i can enjoy without having to justify it
Man, I'm not going to try and combat the validity of someone's personal belief that Zeitgeist is AOTY for them. I'm just being an armchair psychologist here, observing that some people's tastes "solidify" at a certain point and they just stop caring about new music - and that could well be a valid explanation for the belief. And who really cares? The important thing is that they listen to music that grabs a hold of them, not that they have a hyper-awareness of everything that's being put out. But really, in the list of examples Grimmy posted, I might have knocked Bjork and Sigur Ros off the list (sorry, Iceland!) and added a few things, but it's a great summary of what a cool year it's been so far, with many new artists coming to the fore with some interesting work, and some late-career musicians taking some exciting risks with what they do.FrenchMovieTheme said:i don't know, i guess you could say i need to diversify my music listening a bit. i am exposed to a lot of different music but i dont like most of it. i've got my friends who listen to shitty hip hop, my friends who listen to pussy bands like the shins and dinosaur jr., my friends who listen to crappy prog rock tool rip offs, etc. why is it hard to accept i like the sp album a lot? and PLEASE don't say the bjork record is good. it is god awful. neon bible i do like and the new explosions in the sky i like a lot.
come over to my house and we'll listen to music together old friend! you can tell me what i can enjoy without having to justify it
There's simply so much music out there that an eyebrow has to be raised when a "Zeitgeist: AOTY!" claim is made, especially from a hardcore SP fan, and double-especially when they aren't EVEN AWARE of who else might have put out notable work in 2007 other than 90s alt-rock acts. I mean, come on.
But again, it's totally valid to feel that way, and I totally believe you guys are heartfelt and pumped up about Zeitgeist, and that's way cool. As someone going through the rock-crit wringer myself, let me tell you I totally appreciate the "music is subjective" viewpoint.
Edit: Max_PL: I heartily suggest listening to music first, posting reviews on it later. "Indie" is a meaningless marketing buzzword nowadays, you need to get over it. The Shins just had the #1 album on Billboard. Belle & Sebastian sell out 18,000-seat stadiums.
distantmantra
Member
The "Corgan letter" in the Stranger is their review of Zeitgeist. I've got the paper copy sitting in front of me, it even has a fake signature at the bottom of the letter, which looks nothing like Corgan's real signature.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
yes! EitS opening!
distantmantra
Member
Diablos said:
I know you don't want to see the Bravery, but they won't cut into SP's playing time. When I saw them in the past, regardless of whether there was an opening band or not, they still played the same set length.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
pumpkins should have had muse open for them
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
be that as it may, muse rocks balls live! as does SP... seems like a perfect match!
that would be an awesome show, totally agreed.
man, i'm listening to some more bravery songs on their myspace
*cries*
This is not how I want to start the night of the concert I've only been wanting to attend forever.
Their shitty cover of Rocket should be banned from the earth.
man, i'm listening to some more bravery songs on their myspace
*cries*
This is not how I want to start the night of the concert I've only been wanting to attend forever.
Their shitty cover of Rocket should be banned from the earth.
distantmantra
Member
Diablos said:
The first time I saw the Pumpkins back in 1993, Swervedriver opened and rocked the crowd hard.
distantmantra
Member
Diablos said:
If you want me to to love it...
I also saw Garbage and Fountains of Wayne open for them, both were good opening acts.
This Time? Yes!!
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
yes lord i'm sinkin', i wonder just how far...!
distantmantra
Member
Diablos said:
I saw them do those three a lot, I only saw This Time once.
MaX_PL said:
So let me guess...I should listen to what to be considered "in" for you"? My Chemical Romance? Velvet Revolver? Incubus???
There are other artists I like, like The White Stripes and Modest Mouse. But there's also an ever-increasing list of artists I *stopped* listening to: Nine Inch Nails, Garbage, Tool, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, etc. I simply got bored.
And this is the exact same problem with this new album - it is mostly just rehashed sounds.
BTW I saw the Pumpkins three times - including the final concert in Chicago. All three times WERE IN THE US.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
this is AMERICA boy, and if you don't like the pumpkins you can giiiiiiiiiiiit out!
MaX_PL said:
I...what...? There are no words. Thanks for generalizing an entire genre of music without actually having bothered to listen to most of the stuff on that list. And, c'mon, to say that Zeitgeist is "something fresh" is something that I don't think even the most hardened SP fan would admit to. REVOLUU-SHAAAWWWN.
Gah, so easy to fall into defensive fanboy mode.
What the hell, I understand that a lot of people don't dig the album but I'd most definitely say it's damn 'fresh'.
On the first listen I found myself constantly thinking "what a daring move to do a comeback with an album that is not only very different from all other rock stuff today but also very different from the old Pumpkins". The heavy layered guitars often clashing with choruses, the peculiar mixing of the vocals and f/x, almost zero focus on traditionally catchy stuff, the experimental For God And Country, the only-hardcore-fans-will-get-it Pomp And Circumstance, need I go on? I just don't get it, I was very amazed by this album at first and wasn't sure what to think of it, only upon second listen did it really click and it's definitely a favorite of mine now.
On the first listen I found myself constantly thinking "what a daring move to do a comeback with an album that is not only very different from all other rock stuff today but also very different from the old Pumpkins". The heavy layered guitars often clashing with choruses, the peculiar mixing of the vocals and f/x, almost zero focus on traditionally catchy stuff, the experimental For God And Country, the only-hardcore-fans-will-get-it Pomp And Circumstance, need I go on? I just don't get it, I was very amazed by this album at first and wasn't sure what to think of it, only upon second listen did it really click and it's definitely a favorite of mine now.
Ok, just got back to OC. Last night's concert at the Fillmore was really great. 3 hour freaking set! Started at 10:05 and 20 min+ Gossamer ended at 1:05. I actually think they were planning on doing a 2nd encore as it stayed dark for a while like they were coming back, but I think the Fillmore staff made them call it quits considering how late it was.
Some comments:
--Acoustic set including Rotten Apples <3
--20+ min GOSSAMER IS THE ****ING AWESOMEST THING EVER. I'm starting to think this is really the gem of the new pumpkins. It's like you put all the pumpkin epics and jam sessions into a machine and out pops the ultimate evolution of everything that is live Pumpkins and you have the 20 minute song that is Gossamer. So, so, so awesome.
--I hate the new Heavy Metal Machine. It's not even HMM, it just uses parts of it and is some new rockish jam session song. Boo. I <3 HMM, so I'd have rather heard them just play the awesome song.
--New mix of Blue Skies Bring Tears was ok. At first I wasn't digging it when it was all electric guitar-y, but then it got more chill and was pretty nice.
--I love the new Glass and the Ghost Children. Really cool, and the DUNDUN..."and she counted the spiders"...DUNDUN..."as they crawled up inside her"...DUNDUN, etc...was rad. Billy was doing it all solo there and mixing up muting the chords inbetween and it was just tight.
--Silver**** is still goddamn amazing live. I'm glad he didn't go into The Doors cover midway like some shows, because I think just having nonstop Silver**** is even better.
--Starla!!! Very unexpected and totally great live. Tons of energy and most of the fans dug it.
--Hummer was fairly amazing. Everyone got into it and it was just really powerful.
--The last 2 mins of United States rocks so hard live. My favorite part of the song by far. Like XYU with even more energy.
--At least 1/3rd of the show was 10 min+ jam-session songs. I was happy
--Played all the usual singles. Today was pretty good, everything was ok. Crowd got most into Tonight Tonight and Zero.
--Billy screwed up during Doomsday clock when it goes, "this doomsday clock, ticking in my heart...not broken" except instead of "not broken" he went back and repeated the chorus like it was the 2nd time and after a line realized he completely screwed up and just was like ^^;
--Some other slight messups throughout and Billy comes up to the stage and is like "Welcome...to our band practice. Exclusive front row seats to our band practice" Still sounded good, but Billy was going up to people and band members during non-vocal/guitar sections of songs and talking to them like stuff was going wrong. But he took it in stride and remained positive and laughed at himself throughout. While he might have a bit of an ego, I've always liked BC because he's really polite, nice, and humble.
--At one point before playing some Zeitgeist stuff BC says, "To the 7 of you in the audience who actually bought the album...", and then one guy shouts, "I bought mine at target!!!", which made Billy laugh a bit. Did the album really bomb that badly? He seemed a bit depressed when he said the above. :\
--Jimmy's solo during Gossamer for like 3-5 mins :O I've never been that big of drum fan and so I normally don't pay too much attention to excellent drumming, but that was very much "HOLY SHIT" quality drumming.
--I felt a little bad for the new guitar guy. He looked really depressed throughout like he was just there hitting the notes for BC and not allowed to play to his own content. During a few jams he seemed to be having fun, but overall I don't think he likes it in the band.
--The bassist was pretty gross. Looks better in pics.
--The keyboard girl was fairly attractive though
--I'm glad the band ditched the goofy white robes. I'm not a fan of bands dressing up stupidly, and was glad pretty much everyone besides billy and jimmy (who looked straight out of church) was dressed normal.
--The casual fan reaction to the show was lol. People were bitching about how he played so much Zeitgeist material (maybe 1/3rd of the setlist). Guess they didn't realize they were touring for their NEW ALBUM @_@. Then they complain about all the jam sessions, talking about Gossamer saying that they should no when it's been too much time on stage and quit. So yeah, even though he played all the radio stuff for casuals, they still hated on him and the show because, oh noes, he also did a ****ing rad jam session rock concert for the fans of the band and fans of rock and roll in general. I expect any news paper reviews of the show to be scathing and bitching for 80% about how they don't like Corgan.
--Fillmore is a really nice location. Very small, very casual. It was the first show I've been to in a long time where NOBODY WAS MOSHING. Even to Zero. The audience were pretty much 25-35 year olds and it was really chill but with good energy for the songs. Me and InfiniteMadness were like 10 feet from the band.
For everyone whose about to go to one of these shows, enjoy it, because it's going to be awesome. I wouldn't say it's the best show I've been to, as some of the songs were pretty sloppy and there was very little Adore love (only To Shiela ;_, but the setlist was long and satisfying and the performances were generally quite good so I really had a great time.
Also I like the album a lot more after seeing most of it live. The songs really have a lot of depth to them and some amazing guitar and drum work, as well as good vocals. At this point after two weeks of listening to it and hearing the tracks live, it's definitely an 8.5/10 album to me.
*edit*
Heh, I read the thread over at Netphoria and yeah, the critic reviews sound just like the casuals who were bitching as they left. Boo-hoo long jam-sessions. WTF, that is what live SP is. Jeez. Also saw they nixed Cherub Rock/Muzzle/With Every Light. I still say it was because of time and pressure from the Fillmore. If they had just started those at 1:05am the show would have easily gone to 1:30+ and that's a bit iffy. Saw the setlist and yeah so they did play Drown; was nice, but it's been so long since I've heard it, it was one of those songs I remembered the lyrics but had no idea what song he was playing ^^; Oh and Gossamer was actually 30 mins, lol; so awesome
I'd never heard If All Goes Wrong or The Leaving Lament Before, so didn't really know what to make of them.
Some comments:
--Acoustic set including Rotten Apples <3
--20+ min GOSSAMER IS THE ****ING AWESOMEST THING EVER. I'm starting to think this is really the gem of the new pumpkins. It's like you put all the pumpkin epics and jam sessions into a machine and out pops the ultimate evolution of everything that is live Pumpkins and you have the 20 minute song that is Gossamer. So, so, so awesome.
--I hate the new Heavy Metal Machine. It's not even HMM, it just uses parts of it and is some new rockish jam session song. Boo. I <3 HMM, so I'd have rather heard them just play the awesome song.
--New mix of Blue Skies Bring Tears was ok. At first I wasn't digging it when it was all electric guitar-y, but then it got more chill and was pretty nice.
--I love the new Glass and the Ghost Children. Really cool, and the DUNDUN..."and she counted the spiders"...DUNDUN..."as they crawled up inside her"...DUNDUN, etc...was rad. Billy was doing it all solo there and mixing up muting the chords inbetween and it was just tight.
--Silver**** is still goddamn amazing live. I'm glad he didn't go into The Doors cover midway like some shows, because I think just having nonstop Silver**** is even better.
--Starla!!! Very unexpected and totally great live. Tons of energy and most of the fans dug it.
--Hummer was fairly amazing. Everyone got into it and it was just really powerful.
--The last 2 mins of United States rocks so hard live. My favorite part of the song by far. Like XYU with even more energy.
--At least 1/3rd of the show was 10 min+ jam-session songs.
I was happy --Played all the usual singles. Today was pretty good, everything was ok. Crowd got most into Tonight Tonight and Zero.
--Billy screwed up during Doomsday clock when it goes, "this doomsday clock, ticking in my heart...not broken" except instead of "not broken" he went back and repeated the chorus like it was the 2nd time and after a line realized he completely screwed up and just was like ^^;
--Some other slight messups throughout and Billy comes up to the stage and is like "Welcome...to our band practice. Exclusive front row seats to our band practice"
Still sounded good, but Billy was going up to people and band members during non-vocal/guitar sections of songs and talking to them like stuff was going wrong. But he took it in stride and remained positive and laughed at himself throughout. While he might have a bit of an ego, I've always liked BC because he's really polite, nice, and humble.--At one point before playing some Zeitgeist stuff BC says, "To the 7 of you in the audience who actually bought the album...", and then one guy shouts, "I bought mine at target!!!", which made Billy laugh a bit. Did the album really bomb that badly? He seemed a bit depressed when he said the above. :\
--Jimmy's solo during Gossamer for like 3-5 mins :O I've never been that big of drum fan and so I normally don't pay too much attention to excellent drumming, but that was very much "HOLY SHIT" quality drumming.
--I felt a little bad for the new guitar guy. He looked really depressed throughout like he was just there hitting the notes for BC and not allowed to play to his own content. During a few jams he seemed to be having fun, but overall I don't think he likes it in the band.
--The bassist was pretty gross. Looks better in pics.
--The keyboard girl was fairly attractive though
--I'm glad the band ditched the goofy white robes. I'm not a fan of bands dressing up stupidly, and was glad pretty much everyone besides billy and jimmy (who looked straight out of church) was dressed normal.
--The casual fan reaction to the show was lol. People were bitching about how he played so much Zeitgeist material (maybe 1/3rd of the setlist). Guess they didn't realize they were touring for their NEW ALBUM @_@. Then they complain about all the jam sessions, talking about Gossamer saying that they should no when it's been too much time on stage and quit. So yeah, even though he played all the radio stuff for casuals, they still hated on him and the show because, oh noes, he also did a ****ing rad jam session rock concert for the fans of the band and fans of rock and roll in general. I expect any news paper reviews of the show to be scathing and bitching for 80% about how they don't like Corgan.
--Fillmore is a really nice location. Very small, very casual. It was the first show I've been to in a long time where NOBODY WAS MOSHING. Even to Zero. The audience were pretty much 25-35 year olds and it was really chill but with good energy for the songs. Me and InfiniteMadness were like 10 feet from the band.
For everyone whose about to go to one of these shows, enjoy it, because it's going to be awesome. I wouldn't say it's the best show I've been to, as some of the songs were pretty sloppy and there was very little Adore love (only To Shiela ;_
, but the setlist was long and satisfying and the performances were generally quite good so I really had a great time.Also I like the album a lot more after seeing most of it live. The songs really have a lot of depth to them and some amazing guitar and drum work, as well as good vocals. At this point after two weeks of listening to it and hearing the tracks live, it's definitely an 8.5/10 album to me.
*edit*
Heh, I read the thread over at Netphoria and yeah, the critic reviews sound just like the casuals who were bitching as they left. Boo-hoo long jam-sessions. WTF, that is what live SP is. Jeez. Also saw they nixed Cherub Rock/Muzzle/With Every Light. I still say it was because of time and pressure from the Fillmore. If they had just started those at 1:05am the show would have easily gone to 1:30+ and that's a bit iffy. Saw the setlist and yeah so they did play Drown; was nice, but it's been so long since I've heard it, it was one of those songs I remembered the lyrics but had no idea what song he was playing ^^; Oh and Gossamer was actually 30 mins, lol; so awesome
I'd never heard If All Goes Wrong or The Leaving Lament Before, so didn't really know what to make of them.
Awesome post, man. I'm glad you enjoyed the show.
What's The Leaving Lament like? Not in terms of an impression or something, just its general sound?
btw, the Siamese Dream girls have been found.
Girl on the left.
Girl on the right.
What's The Leaving Lament like? Not in terms of an impression or something, just its general sound?
btw, the Siamese Dream girls have been found.
Girl on the left.
Girl on the right.
No one is in defensive fanboy mode, stop crying.Alucard said:I...what...? There are no words. Thanks for generalizing an entire genre of music without actually having bothered to listen to most of the stuff on that list. And, c'mon, to say that Zeitgeist is "something fresh" is something that I don't think even the most hardened SP fan would admit to. REVOLUU-SHAAAWWWN.
Gah, so easy to fall into defensive fanboy mode.