• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Opinion: The Order 1886 deserves* a sequel

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
*let me preface by clarifying that being deemed deserving follows more than the criteria of being critically and commercially successful. Case in point, Killzone 1 -> Killzone 2.

That being said, I just went back to fetch the last few collectable trophies; this time I played the game knowing full well what was coming and I've found myself enjoying it quite a bit more due to a number of reasons:

1. The writing:

While the plot in under cooked and feels rushed, the dialogue between characters is convincing and authentic. It really feels like people from Victorian London exchanging words, which leads into my next reason.

2. The art direction and world building:

This game can't get enough praise for this. The misty cobblestone slums of Whitechapel, the wrought iron and stonework of Mayfair, the brassy, leathery, wooden lab of Tesla. Everything is brimming with authenticity and tangible atmosphere. From the newspaper articles setting the state of affairs in alternate history London, the sounds of people going about town, the solemnity of the Knights and their role in that society. That, which also brings me to my next point. But before...

2a. Man, this fucking graphics engine:

The rendering techniques used to achieve the look and feel of each different material is fucking sublime. Goddamn. It goes a looong way making blasting fools feel fantastic. It really feels like I'm riddling bodies with lead, or mangling flesh and cloth with a coach gun, or frying fuckers with a lightning bolt.

3. There's a lot of lore to tap into:

The Knights obviously weren't a bunch of Van Helsing's, they had access to better weaponry and thus more apt to fight half breeds but that wasn't their sole reason for existence, or if it was, it's still not clear. They were still slave to bureaucracy and politics which made me stop and wonder whether they were actually hunters and persecutors, or more along the lines of protectors and mitigators of nobility and the regular people.
EDIT: In essence, the events of 1886 mark a period of change for the Knights of the Order, a time during which the core principles and duties of the same were being shaken and forced to adapt, as opposed to merely being a run of the mill mission for a group of monster hunters.

Needless to say, I really, really want an expanded sequel to this IP that dives deeper into the lore and obviously jacks up the gameplay and longevity.

Sony would be wise to give it the Killzone 2 treatment, cause there is just so much potential here.
 
It's not a good game. It's pretty and has some interesting art but the story and characters put me to sleep. It flopped for a reason.
 

DNAbro

Member
If they could fix literally everything in the gameplay and plot department sure.

so basically make a game like the order except good.
 

Whompa02

Member
It needs a game director. Everything else is top notch but t needs someone that knows how to make an engaging experience. The artistry was unreal. It looks incredible, I just wish the game design was more open...
 
Yes! We need a sequel desperately. This is the franchise that has the most untapped potential of this generation IMO. Imagine a second game featuring:
- 2-3 hour longer campaign
- a co-op mode for a few hours
- online MP
- interesting world more fleshed out
- better use of boss fights
- enemy encounter to be a bit more interesting, it felt like a last gen game in this regard

The guns feel good, atmosphere is one of the best out there, VA is top notch, characters are all interesting and the world is ripe with intrigue (Tesla needs more screen time), music is great, graphics are still the best, and theme/concept is very unique.
 

Xaero Gravity

NEXT LEVEL lame™
I found the story and the universe surrounding it to be so damn boring that I ended up not giving two shits about any of the characters or what happened to them. To me, that's the biggest sin a cinematic game can commit, so much so that I have zero interest in seeing a sequel.
 

Harlequin

Member
I completely agree. Sure, the gameplay was sort of generic but so is Uncharted's (IMO, anyway) and people rave on about that (not that there's anything wrong with that - Uncharted is awesome for reasons other than its gameplay but so is The Order). The Order was good for what it was, it succeeded in doing what it was trying to do and it was entertaining. Plus, its universe was incredibly interesting and I'd love to explore it a little more. So yeah, I'd definitely buy and play a sequel.
 
I mean, I'd be fine with a sequel existing, especially if it improves on the original's flaws. But "deserves" is pretty strong wording. I'd be perfectly fine if The Order stopped at 1886 too.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Hell yes it does. Bought the limited edition AFTER I finished the game just in the hopes of a sequel.
 
I'd agree, if only to get more out of the visual engine & concept. There's something to The Order, but the first game couldn't have been more of a botched first attempt.
 
soft.0.gif


Game had not much going for it besides the graphics. Horrible writing and execution.
 
Completely agree with you OP, but that sadly won't happen...

Really enjoyed my time with it in spite of the shitty stealth segments.

I completely agree. Sure, the gameplay was sort of generic but so is Uncharted's (IMO, anyway) and people rave on about that (not that there's anything wrong with that - Uncharted is awesome for reasons other than its gameplay but so is The Order). The Order was good for what it was, it succeeded in doing what it was trying to do and it was entertaining. Plus, its universe was incredibly interesting and I'd love to explore it a little more. So yeah, I'd definitely buy and play a sequel.

GIF-No-No-Way-Never-Not-Gonna-Happen-Nah-Nope-GIF.gif


You can say a lot of things about Uncharted but generic gameplay is not one of them, the emphasis in movement is something very few TPS do.
 

thuway

Member
No thanks. It was a very expensive experiment that went completely off the rails. If Ready at Dawn wants to make a new gaming using the same engine and assets- I'm all for it- but do not touch this particular franchise because it managed to completely drown itself internet hyperbole and critical toxcitiy thanks to it's "presentation" first gameplay-less design cues.
 
this isn't entirely on topic but i feel like this game would've really benefitted from mp. considering that there were like futuristic/sci fi guns and stuff, the hypothetical mp may've had a lot of potential.
 

Drayco21

Member
I'd be interested to see them try another go at this world. It's an interesting setting, and has lots of potential, they just need to do more with actually playing it. I get why we'll probably never see it again, but I do wish they had the opportunity to take a chance on learning from the criticisms of the project.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Of course, it's one of those games that builds a solid foundation, but has a lot of weak aspects that a sequel could improve dramatically.

Imagine if Assassin's Creed, Killzone, Street Fighter, Uncharted or Red Dead Revolver never had a sequel.
 
The Order 1886 is a game full of good ideas and every chance it got it took the most boring choice it could to execute on them.

The elevator pitch of the world is amazing but the writing in the game was super boring.

The tech powering it is amazing but the gameplay is right out of the Gears of War clone rush of 2008-2009.



I feel OK knowing it is never getting a sequel.

Would love to know how it came out the way it did. I remember the stories that RAD was shopping a game around a lot between their GoW games but no one was biting. Maybe it became so generic in a attempt to pick up a publisher that eventually it became nothing special.
 

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I found the story and the universe surrounding it to be so damn boring that I ended up not giving two shits about any of the characters or what happened to them. To me, that's the biggest sin a cinematic game can commit, so much so that I have zero interest in seeing a sequel.

I disagree.

I enjoyed it in a "this is the beginning to something really cool" kind of way.

Like a guided tour of a universe that was gonna be expanded upon.
 

zsynqx

Member
I thought the writing was terrible. Yes they managed to make dialogue sort of sound like it was from that era but that was it. The characters were also incredibly dull.
 

CHC

Member
The game was wayyyy to slept on. The scenery, weapons, and feel of the controls were all great. Weak story and weak encounter design, but yes... it deserves another chance. I bought the game for ten bucks and for that price, I had a great experience with it.

If I had paid 60, then yeah, it might have been harder to just roll my eyes and laugh off the bad stuff here and there. But again, there's potential there.
 

thuway

Member
this isn't entirely on topic but i feel like this game would've really benefitted from mp. considering that there were like futuristic/sci fi guns and stuff, the hypothetical mp may've had a lot of potential.

The game's inherent gunplay was designed around single player. Some of the weapons would make absolutely no sense in a balancing aspect. They'd have to redesign the entire gun play model to fit in an MP mode.

On top of all that- there was such little gunplay in such claustrophobic environments it did very little to show off what "could" have been.
 
I think except for the engine there was nothing that showed potential.

Maybe the scenario, but they manage to make that boring, too.

But I think RAD is a very talented bunch of people and I'm excited for their next game.
I just think the vision they pursued with The Order wasn't something that tranlates well to video games.
 

Harlequin

Member
I noticed you didn't mention gameplay. I think that is the problem with the GAME.

Well, okay, don't think of it as a game then, think of it as an interactive entertainment experience. So long as the thing keeps you entertained as a whole, does it really matter which specific aspects of it keep you entertained? Of course, if you just didn't like any aspect of the game at all, fair enough, that's your opinion, but just because it doesn't have great gameplay doesn't mean it's worthless as a piece of media. There are lots of reasons to check it out besides its gameplay and I don't think any of those should necessarily be less valid just because it's called a "game".

To use the Uncharted comparison again, if Uncharted was just its gameplay without the atmosphere, story, characters and pretty environments, it would bore the shit out of me. I would get zero enjoyment out of it. But it does have the story, it does have the atmosphere, it does have the characters and it does have the pretty environments and all those things are enough to keep me entertained despite the lacklustre (IMO, obviously) gameplay. (Well, they are in 1 and 2, anyway, but that's a different story :p). For me, at least, it's the same with The Order.
 
The writing in The Order was absolute trash. What a waste of a good idea for the world. Just terrible execution. The only way this game would deserve a sequel is if RAD hired someone who could actually write. Get Druckmann on the phone.
 

MrHoot

Member
It's pretty. That's literally all it has going for it.

Pretty much.

Not even the story is worth mentionning. It's boring, full of contradictions, cliché and the characters are bland (You got gruff-voiced main character, strong female woman, wise old mentor, old man from ancient archaic order who turns out to have been evil all along what a surprise). The dialogue was...competent at best but all in all just superficial.

If anything it would need (but not deserve) a soft reboot: take the world, ignore most of the old characters and gameplay and try to replace it with something actually compelling

But really, it doesn't deserve anything. Stop trying to shovel out bad games. Some just get to be forgotten, like Lair or Haze
 

im_dany

Member
Killzone have sequels because they need something against Halo, not because it is deserving.

The Order is useless in Sony's lineup, and it needs something RaD couldn't give: both quality and quantity. If they find another team they should make them do a new IP instead of force them to do something they may not be interested in.
 

Briarios

Member
You know what deserves a sequel? Fucking Psi-OPs deserves a sequel -- good gameplay, story, and a freaking cliffhanger ending.

The Order should get a sequel only if sales warrant it and they can fix the gameplay. Then, yes, it should -- but it doesn't deserve it, in my opinion.
 
Killzone have sequels because they need something against Halo, not because it is deserving.

The Order is useless in Sony's lineup, and it needs something RaD couldn't give: both quality and quantity. If they find another team they should make them do a new IP instead of force them to do something they may not be interested in.

Killzone 2 and 3 were good games. Killzone 2 was actually great. I do agree that Killzone 2 never gets made if Sony didn't need a shooter in their catalog at the time.
 
Pretty much.

Not even the story is worth mentionning. It's boring, full of contradictions, cliché and the characters are bland (You got gruff-voiced main character, strong female woman, wise old mentor, old man from ancient archaic order who turns out to have been evil all along what a surprise). The dialogue was...competent at best but all in all just superficial.

If anything it would need (but not deserve) a soft reboot: take the world, ignore most of the old characters and gameplay and try to replace it with something actually compelling

But really, it doesn't deserve anything. Stop trying to shovel out bad games. Some just get to be forgotten, like Lair or Haze

I'm interested to hear about those contradictions, didn't noticed while I was playing.
 

vpance

Member
I'll say it again. RaD could be the kings of this revitalized era of interactive cinematic story driven games ala Until Dawn, LiS, Quantic Dream, Telltale, etc if they wanted to. That's the only form I'd want to see a sequel.

Story can be fixed with better writers but designing top tier TPS gameplay is clearly not in their wheelhouse. A sequel in the same style but just longer will still get critically smashed. It took them 5 years to make what they did, remember this.
 

Osukaa

Member
Deserves a sequel. I would buy it day 1. I enjoyed my time with the game and it deserves to get a second chance.
 
Of course, it's one of those games that builds a solid foundation, but has a lot of weak aspects that a sequel could improve dramatically.

Imagine if Assassin's Creed, Killzone, Street Fighter, Uncharted or Red Dead Revolver never had a sequel.

This.

It was definitely lacking but I think the franchise deserves a second chance.
 

Harlequin

Member
You can say a lot of things about Uncharted but generic gameplay is not one of them, the emphasis in movement is something very few TPS do.

I'd disagree (because I honestly don't think that that's enough of a difference to make it "un-generic") but even going by that premise, stuff like an emphasis on verticality was only really introduced into the series in Uncharted 2. So Uncharted was given a sequel despite its first entry being pretty uninspired/unoriginal on the gameplay front and everyone ended up loving it. The same thing could very well happen with an Order sequel.
 

KC Denton

Member
The Order 1886 threads are quickly starting to become the most annoying recurrence I've personally observed.

Seriously, there seems to be a thread about how this game needs a sequel at least once a month since it came out. It hasn't even been a year since it got released, we don't know if it has been completely scrapped as an IP. To those of you who bought it for $10 last month and really want a sequel, you should have voted with your wallet when it came out, instead of complaining well after you could have done anything about the game's reception and sales. You talk about series like Assassin's Creed and Killzone, but fail to realize those series still had fairly positive receptions and people didn't wait to buy them until they were $5 in a bargain bin.

I spent well over $60 on a launch day collector's edition of this game, and I thought the game was alright when I finished it. Now with all these threads popping up, I see the flaws more clearly, and look back on the experience with less fondness every time.

I mean, I really liked Too Human, but I didn't post a thread about how we really need a new Too Human every few months. That would become incredibly annoying, and I can recognize that Too Human was in reality a pretty bad game instead of moving goalposts to make it look less bad when talking about it to other people.
 
Top Bottom