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Orange is the New Black - Season 1 on Netflix - Every sentence is a story

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olympia

Member
Breaking Bad certainly has elements of black comedy, which Gilligan has acknowledged, but I don't think that really makes it a true black comedy. Comedy is an important element of BB, but I wouldn't call it a central element.

Really, the distinction between the two genres only matters come awards season. But that's why I started talking about it, so whatev.

If OITNB weren't created by Jenji Kohan, I don't think many people would be calling it a comedy.

The comedy is an integral part of the narrative and message. So yes. It's a black comedy.
If you want, I can provide numerous examples and evidence that support my claim.

I didn't know it was by the creator of Weeds until the middle of the season, and I would have certainly held the same claim as I do now.
Just an aside:

I signed up for Netflix's free trial specifically to watch Orange is the New Black, but now that I've finished it, I decided to check out what else they have to stream...

...good LORD how does this service hold on to ANY subscribers??? Their streaming library is abysmal. I've tried about 6 - 7 different movies at this point and NONE of them are available.

Their anime/cartoon selection is surprisingly robust, but that's the only compliment I can really give.

I loved OitNB, and I would like to keep the service, but man...this selection ain't worth 8 bucks a month.

It's the cost of a takeout meal. Two fancy coffees. You'll find value in it if you browse the library. I watched Rān and Kagemusha on Netflix, two of the greatest films I have ever seen in my life.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
We're at the point where the distinction between "comedy" and "drama" is becoming increasingly meaningless. Is Enlightened a comedy? Nurse Jackie? Glee? Even other shows that were submitted as comedies, like The Carrie Diaries... I just don't think it matters anymore since it's not black and white. Maybe the entire distinction should be scrapped and just replaced by "best program" (though a sitcom would never win because it lacks gravitas in the same way that comedies never are nominated/win best picture).
 

olympia

Member
We're at the point where the distinction between "comedy" and "drama" is becoming increasingly meaningless. Is Enlightened a comedy? Nurse Jackie? Glee? Even other shows that were submitted as comedies, like The Carrie Diaries... I just don't think it matters anymore since it's not black and white. Maybe the entire distinction should be scrapped and just replaced by "best program" (though a sitcom would never win because it lacks gravitas in the same way that comedies never are nominated/win best picture).

It's been a debate since literature has existed.
 
The comedy is an integral part of the narrative and message. So yes. It's a black comedy.
If you want, I can provide numerous examples and evidence that support my claim.

I didn't know it was by the creator of Weeds until the middle of the season, and I would have certainly held the same claim as I do now.

For me, it's as simple as this: Is this show more akin to Mad Men and Breaking Bad or Modern Family and 30 Rock?

I agree with ivysaur that the distinction is increasingly meaningless, but come award season, I really think that it should be classified as a drama. Hell, I would almost classify Louie as a drama for many of the same reasons.

And then you have a "dramedy" like Girls that fails at both comedy and drama and has no business being nominated for anything. Stupid Emmys.
 

B-Dex

Member
Haha you're exactly right, I'm avoiding it :p
But I've loved Lilyhammer, House of Cards, Arrested Development, and OITNB so it's okay that they have one rotten tomato.

Hemlock Grove isn't that bad, it just has awful pacing. I'm hoping that's fixed for it's second season. (If that is still happening)
 

olympia

Member
For me, it's as simple as this: Is this show more akin to Mad Men and Breaking Bad or Modern Family and 30 Rock?

I agree with ivysaur that the distinction is increasingly meaningless, but come award season, I really think that it should be classified as a drama. Hell, I would almost classify Louie as a drama for many of the same reasons.

And then you have a "dramedy" like Girls that fails at both comedy and drama and has no business being nominated for anything. Stupid Emmys.

It's not 'simple'. Mad Men and Breaking Bad are different on radical levels. Modern Family and 30 Rock are also different on also completely radical levels in terms of what each show is trying to accomplish. They are only semantically similar.

By providing these flawed and pointless comparisons as evidence for your argument, you have exposed your narrow perspective about what genres can accomplish. Genres have blurred lines. You're pigeonholing Orange as a drama, when the narrative varies on a spectrum widely between comedy and drama, so it can plausibly be both. Not one or the other.

In this instance, I would assign it "black comedy" because it addresses many deadly serious/dramatic themes and plot points with a comedic approach, the essence of Black Comedy.

Yeah, you're saying it's subjective, which is obvious. It's pointless to dismiss your claim from argument or criticism by saying "well, that's just like your opinion, man." The genre is ultimately determined by the intention of the creators involved in the project, and not about what you find funny or dramatic.

I'm just going to conclude my argument here. I'm not going to rebuke your argument for the sake of the thread.
 
It's not 'simple'. Mad Men and Breaking Bad are different on radical levels. Modern Family and 30 Rock are also different on also completely radical levels in terms of what each show is trying to accomplish. They are only semantically similar.

By providing these flawed and pointless comparisons as evidence for your argument, you have exposed your narrow perspective about what genres can accomplish. Genres have blurred lines. You're pigeonholing Orange as a drama, when the narrative varies on a spectrum widely between comedy and drama, so it can plausibly be both. Not one or the other.

In this instance, I would assign it "black comedy" because it addresses many deadly serious/dramatic themes and plot points with a comedic approach, the essence of Black Comedy.

Yeah, you're saying it's subjective, which is obvious. It's pointless to dismiss your claim from argument or criticism by saying "well, that's just like your opinion, man." The genre is ultimately determined by the intention of the creators involved in the project, and not about what you find funny or dramatic.

I'm just going to conclude my argument here. I'm not going to rebuke your argument for the sake of the thread.

I'm pigeonholing it? Come awards season, it has to be pigeonholed because there are only two categories in which it can be nominated. There's no black comedy category, and no dramedy category.

I've said repeatedly that the only time the distinction matters is awards season, and that's the only context in which I'm discussing it. I'm not pigeonholing anything. I'm merely saying that I find it to be a far more appropriate fit in the drama category than the comedy category.

And in awards season, the genre under which it ultimately falls will have little to do with the narrative intent of the creators, as you seem to think, and far more to do with what categories the network thinks it has the best chance of winning in. And for that reason, it will end up in the comedy categories.

Also, chill the fuck out. Jesus Christ.
 
EDIT: I fucking KNEW yoga jones sounded familiar.

4fUDIeS.jpg


Mind blown
This was driving me crazy! Thank you! I kept forgetting to Google it.
 

Snake

Member
This whole "comedy" debate is kind of irrelevant.

When we call something a comedy in this context we're not referring to the extent which we were made to laugh or not. It's just a categorization. And the categorization is only a starting point, not something meant to shape exactly how we consume media (in fact it's the least important aspect I can think of).

OitNB is not a "comedy." It's a drama. Now, was it a funny show? I'd say hell yes! I would go so far as to say it's an outright hilarious show. I laughed out loud constantly throughout (and this is always more common when you're watching something with other people, which I was, so it's understandable if solitary viewing led you to only laugh on the inside). Therefore we can say it was a drama, but one which was carried by a large degree of humor.

Good dramas like The Sopranos, Friday Night Lights, and even something like The X-Files (oh yes I went there) practically always have large elements of comic relief. It's in large part what made them good dramas. This doesn't clash with the fact that they have serious themes and dramatic content for much of their screen time, because the humor isn't coming from their show categorization (and often it's not even coming from outright jokes), but from good/clever/witty writing. Heck, even a show like Hannibal can often make you laugh or grin. Not simply because you're witnessing deeds of cruelty, but rather ones that are wickedly clever, twist your expectations, and activate your "oh no he didn't!" sensor.

If you want to think of OitNB as being in large part a black comedy you're not wrong and you aren't committing some sort of categorizational sin. You just need to realize why it shouldn't be in the comedy category at the Emmys, or simply filed in the "comedy" section of the DVD store.
 
Just an aside:

I signed up for Netflix's free trial specifically to watch Orange is the New Black, but now that I've finished it, I decided to check out what else they have to stream...

...good LORD how does this service hold on to ANY subscribers??? Their streaming library is abysmal. I've tried about 6 - 7 different movies at this point and NONE of them are available.

Their anime/cartoon selection is surprisingly robust, but that's the only compliment I can really give.

I loved OitNB, and I would like to keep the service, but man...this selection ain't worth 8 bucks a month.

The vast majority of subscribers just watch television shows. Youre using it wrong. :p
 
The vast majority of subscribers just watch television shows. Youre using it wrong. :p

Yeah, but if you've kept up with television like I have there is almost nothing to watch on Netflix Instant other than their original shows.

Back on topic--I finished this last night and, wow, Netflix finally made a great show.
 

Fewr

Member
Just finished. I liked it a lot.

Larry's last conversation with Piper:
I like how they leave no doubt that the guy is a complete idiot just taking advantage of the situation. He used all the lines his parents and Alex gave to him, probably even from Piper's brother, but I didn't catch those if they were there.

Also, I would like the ending of the whole thing to be a chocolate and vanilla swirl.
crazy eyes, my favourite
 

belushy

Banned
I'm probably gonna rewatch again here soon. I see that they already started filming for season 2 already? Chances it comes out in 6 months instead of a full year? Definitely dying to see where the show goes from here, I think it was great.

Also hoping that with the success of this show, they start doing more original series's or pick up old shows and revive them (like Arrested Development.) Really hoping they bring back Jericho. I remember reading they were in talks with the creators of the show a few months ago about it. Would be a dream come true.
 
Also hoping that with the success of this show, they start doing more original series's or pick up old shows and revive them (like Arrested Development.)

Didn't they say they were doing twice as many original series next year? OitNB, Hemlock Grove and HoC will be back next year, maybe AD as well. Lilyhammer I think will air season 2 this year.

The only new show they have announced for next year is the Wachovski sci-fi one, right? That should mean 3/4 other new shows to be picked up.
 
Wow.........based on the previews of the show I did not expect it to be as good as it ended up being.

I began watching the series pilot and about half way through it I turned it off and said toe myself, "This shit is horrible." I intended never watching it at all. After a few days though, I started seeing more and more buzz about it on the internet and talked to my fiance. She told me people on Facebook were talking about it. So we gave it another shot and it was damn good. Not nearly on the level as a Breaking bad or Game of Thrones, but good in it's own way. I love all the characters as well.

Overall I would say to check it out and give it 3 episodes to really appreciate it, but I loved what I saw and hope Netflix continues to deliver on quality original programming.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Wow.........based on the previews of the show I did not expect it to be as good as it ended up being.

I began watching the series pilot and about half way through it I turned it off and said toe myself, "This shit is horrible." I intended never watching it at all. After a few days though, I started seeing more and more buzz about it on the internet and talked to my fiance. She told me people on Facebook were talking about it. So we gave it another shot and it was damn good. Not nearly on the level as a Breaking bad or Game of Thrones, but good in it's own way. I love all the characters as well.

Overall I would say to check it out and give it 3 episodes to really appreciate it, but I loved what I saw and hope Netflix continues to deliver on quality original programming.

This show hooked me in from the opening somehow. Twas' probably the bewbs.
 

Dabanton

Member
Fuck what an ending to the first season. that was tense and holy shit how could he do that?

What a fucker.

The thing I really like is Piper is most of the time she is a completely unsympathetic character privileged and she knows it. That makes the average TV viewer uncomfortable as how can we root for her when she's just as selfish and devious.

They really need less repetitive music during the Daya-and-guard scenes, it's driving me crazy.

I said to my wife it sounds like the music from the Sims.
 

Fey

Banned
The thing I really like is Piper is most of the time she is a completely unsympathetic character privileged and she knows it. That makes the average TV viewer uncomfortable as how can we root for her when she's just as selfish and devious.

Yup I love shows like that. You want to root for her but know in the back of your mind she's not what you think or wish she is.
 
Yup I love shows like that. You want to root for her but know in the back of your mind she's not what you think or wish she is.

To me there really isn't a single totally good/moral character on the entire show except for the one female guard, seeing everyone's dark side is a really easy way to empathize with most of the characters.
 

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
This show was really great, it's too bad it was released all at once because I missed out on discussing it episode by episode on here.

I think Poussey was my favourite of the funny characters, she had so many great scenes, and nailed all the different voices she did. Miss Claudette probably had my favourite backstory. Only shortcoming was the love "triangle" stuff with Daya.
 

Revolver

Member
I didn't expect much from this show but I ended up really liking it. The only quibble I had with it was how little the Pennsatucky character was fleshed out. She was pretty much a deluded resentful hick from beginning to end, though her treatment in the psych ward was upsetting. Even Pornstache had brief flashes of humanity. I didn't really care for the Daya and Bennett relationship story arc either.

That ending was awesome though and the show has a strong cast. Netflix has a gem here.
 
The first episode was - and I say this sans hyperbole or irony - one of the worst episodes of television I've seen in YEARS. And I watched an episode of WWE's Total Divas on E!, for fuck's sake. I imagine it HAS to get better, as I can't imagine it getting any worse, but how the hell did any of you push yourselves to watch anything further?
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
I could really do without Jason Biggs. Great show other than his character.

Also, Moon Boots, that was a totally unnecessary shot at Total Divas.
 
blame space - I actually wrote a REALLY long takedown of it, which I posted on FB, but I somewhat doubted anybody would care enough to read the whole thing. To put it succinctly - the first episode was incredibly poorly-structured and -acted, and the characterization was extremely stereotypical and shallow, on pretty much every level. It went in every predictable direction it could, and it pandered like hell in order to make it "relatable". It didn't work as drama, it didn't work as comedy - it just didn't work.

Edit: My apologies Chamber, but the low-hanging fruit really is so damn tempting.
 
it just.. -- didn't work.

hmm, yes. interesting take moon boots. i like the raw honesty you have going here in the thread. are you going to watch further? i hope so!
 
it just.. -- didn't work.

hmm, yes. interesting take moon boots. i like the raw honesty you have going here in the thread. are you going to watch further? i hope so!

I might try one more episode and see if it's any better, but if the job of a first episode is to hook, then it did a very poor job.
 
The pilot was easily the weakest episode of what was a pretty great first season, but anybody calling it the worst episode of TV they've seen in years clearly must watch almost nothing.

Hell, it's barely Thursday and I've already watched three episodes of television worse than it this week thanks to an especially weak Dexter, the always terrible Ray Donovan, and The "if it wasn't for hate-watchers it would get a 0 share" Newsroom.
 
Thing is, alot of bad television can have SOME entertainment value. A funny joke, good acting, even just camp value or fun trashiness. But that episode was literally nothing but stereotypes, cliches, unfunny jokes, and "dramatic" moments that had zero subtlety, nuance, or substance. Not a single interesting character, not a single moment in which there was even a hint of hidden depths that might later surface. I said on FB (in response to those praising the show for its diversity and majority female cast) that you could look to pretty much any 50-minute stretch of the Ozu movies "Late Spring" and "Early Summer" and find more progressive attitudes and meanings, and those movies were written by a man 60 years ago and made in a society far more sexist and with much more rigid gender roles than today. They're also funnier, to boot, without even trying.
 
blame space - I actually wrote a REALLY long takedown of it, which I posted on FB, but I somewhat doubted anybody would care enough to read the whole thing. To put it succinctly - the first episode was incredibly poorly-structured and -acted, and the characterization was extremely stereotypical and shallow, on pretty much every level. It went in every predictable direction it could, and it pandered like hell in order to make it "relatable". It didn't work as drama, it didn't work as comedy - it just didn't work.

Edit: My apologies Chamber, but the low-hanging fruit really is so damn tempting.

Well, at least in that case, your instincts were right on point.
 
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