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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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F

Fisico

Member
Ty4on said:
Wouldn't Le Pen missing the second round be even better?
Click to expand...

I you only care keeping the EU as it is now, a second round Fillon vs Macron would probably be the best news tbh.
Also the best thing if you wish to have Russia as far as possible from France (since Macron vs Fillon is the potential second round where the gap between the two candidates was the wider in polls, always between 30-40% for the past month)
 
L

LordZagry

Neo Member
Gonna vote for Mélenchon tomorrow. I disagree with some points of his program for sure, but he is the only leftist candidate that have a small chance to pass, and I can't stand Macron (he's really too neo-liberal for me, I'm terrified by the future he would like to see happen).
That being said, I'm not anti-EU, I just (naively ?) hope that certain European treaties may be renegotiated.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Systolique said:
Yes, and they lost with Sarkozy in 2012 doing that, and are looking to lose again with a Fillon being even further on the right side.

I don't think you can get very much further to the right than that, and if LR looses again it'll just show them this isn't working.
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The "Socialist Party" was not a left party under Hollande. That tells you enough about France drifting right.

Also, if the LR looses again, but to who? If the FN wins, they will move right, not left. The remaining left on the other hand would move further left.
 
A

Ac30

Member
Err what's this La Libre thing that has Fillon into the second round?

Please no "vote the crook not the fascist v2"
 
A

Ac30

Member
mo60 said:
It's this.
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/france/e...es-heures-du-scrutin-58f9dacccd70e80512fbd23c

26% Le Pen
22% Fillon
21% Macron
17% Melenchon
7% Hamon

Oh god I don't want a repeat of the 2016 US election.I'm really scared of a fillon-Le Pen second round.I don't want two corrupt candidates facing each other.
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It's a poll, right, not a vote tally? Seems conspicuously out of step with the rest. I thought they weren't allowed to post polls?

I thought Macron was Hillary lol
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
Holden said:
eh

id debat le pen vs melenchon would be the darkest timeline

Fillon would just be a shitty continuity of what is going on

having two anti globalism candidates in 2nd just sounds like a terrible thing.
Atleast one of them isn't from a party of racism

just my opinion /shrug
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That's how I see it.

Fillion and Le Pen missing round 2 would be quite a kick in the Putin balls.
 
M

mo60

Member
Ac30 said:
It's a poll, right, not a vote tally? Seems conspicuously out of step with the rest. I thought they weren't allowed to post polls?

I thought Macron was Hillary lol
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Both Macron and Fillon are the hilary of this french presidential election, but a corrupt vs corrupt matchup would be a repeat of the US election. And it's definitely a poll and probably one we need to take with a grain of salt.
 
A

Ac30

Member
mo60 said:
Both Macron and Fillon are the hilary of this french presidential election, but a corrupt vs corrupt matchup would be a repeat of the US election. And it's definitely a poll and probably one we need to take with a grain of salt.
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I think Fillon is more comparable to Hillary in that people think he's corrupt (and has actual concrete corruption charges) and he's establishment as all hell. Macron is a fresh face and has his own thing going and is trying to distance himself from the parties, even if he's not as charismatic as Melenchon apparently is.


Yeah this poll is weird (and illegal?). I thought it was against the law to punish polls after Friday.
 
M

MistakenMobius

Member
Ac30 said:
I think Fillon is more comparable to Hillary in that people think he's corrupt (and has actual concrete corruption charges) and he's establishment as all hell. Macron is a fresh face and has his own thing going and is trying to distance himself from the parties, even if he's not as charismatic as Melenchon apparently is.


Yeah this poll is weird (and illegal?). I thought it was against the law to punish polls after Friday.
Click to expand...
In France, la libre is Belgian.
Law is outdated as fuck.
 
M

mo60

Member
Ac30 said:
I think Fillon is more comparable to Hillary in that people think he's corrupt (and has actual concrete corruption charges) and he's establishment as all hell. Macron is a fresh face and has his own thing going and is trying to distance himself from the parties, even if he's not as charismatic as Melenchon apparently is.


Yeah this poll is weird (and illegal?). I thought it was against the law to punish polls after Friday.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Macron is pro-globalization like hilary and is socially liberal but there is not much that can compare macron to hilary.
 
K

Koren

Member
LordZagry said:
Gonna vote for Mélenchon tomorrow. I disagree with some points of his program for sure, but he is the only leftist candidate that have a small chance to pass, and I can't stand Macron (he's really too neo-liberal for me, I'm terrified by the future he would like to see happen).
That being said, I'm not anti-EU, I just (naively ?) hope that certain European treaties may be renegotiated.
Click to expand...
I'm pro-EU, but I'm not against rethinking some bits. But I don't believe a second the way Melenchon wants to deal with it has a single chance of success in terms or renegociation. It's probably even worse than the UK tentative of blackmail.

Also, when you hear Melenchon speaking about Chavez, either he's totally clueless about what really happened in Venezuella, or he's downright crazy. I'm willing to believe he's both ;)


I somehow share some of your fears, but I think a form of cohabitation is our last chance of getting decent results. With the awful choice of candidates, I'll just choose based on foreign politics and ethics, and hope we can choose the economic and social politics at the legislatives, since it's the way things are usually shared in case of cohabitation...
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Xando said:
Funny enough europe shows both sides of the austerity argument.
Germany made deep cuts in it's social net and tough reforms on their labour market in the early 2000s and look where they are now.
Austerity imposed on countries like Greece for example is the bad side of the argument since the measures are almost pure about lowering debt instead of getting the state to run more efficiently and promoting growth.
As i said the sweetspot is probably somewhere inbetween but we can't continue spending money we don't have at this rate or one day the economy will be unable to pay interest.
Click to expand...

Not sure i'd want to defend reforms carried out by one of the most corrupt administrations in germany's recent history, but hey, to each his own.
Anyway, germany's austerity wave did not happen during an economic downturn. Austerity during an upturn is expected. During a downturn, well...
 
L

Loris146

Member
Coriolanus said:
Not sure i'd want to defend reforms carried out by one of the most corrupt administrations in germany's recent history, but hey, to each his own.
Anyway, germany's austerity wave did not happen during an economic downturn. Austerity during an upturn is expected. During a downturn, well...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. Hartz and mini jobs , what a shitshow. Anyway Germany was ( is ) helped by the euro which boosted their competitiveness by an insane amount. We are talking about one of the biggest surplus in the world ( which is also "illegal" in EU but who cares it's Germany ) .

Austerity failed in Spain , Italy , Greece, Portugal , France ( We are all corrupted guys ) Moreover the debt is bigger than ever in these countries thanks to austerity ( the main goal was to reduce the debt lol ) .
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Ayé, voté.
I even agreed to help for the ballot count tonight (first time for me), so I guess I won't even get to watch the first results on TV. I wonder if the counters get to know about them, on one hand it would make sense not to, but on the other hand it's hard to hold that information when everybody has a smartphone in his pocket.
 
Putosaure

Putosaure

Member
Alx said:
Ayé, voté.
I even agreed to help for the ballot count tonight (first time for me), so I guess I won't even get to watch the first results on TV.
Click to expand...

That's what I am thinking of doing too, but I don't know how long I'll have to stay there after 8PM.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Putosaure said:
That's what I am thinking of doing too, but I don't know how long I'll have to stay there after 8PM.
Click to expand...

They told me it would last around one hour, maybe one and a half. It may depend on the size of your station (and participation) of course, but I guess everything is scaled accordingly.
 
J

Jb

Member
A voté. If there's any justice in this world fate will spare us the nightmare 2nd round. We've suffered enough already.

Alx said:
They told me it would last around one hour, maybe one and a half. It may depend on the size of your station (and participation) of course, but I guess everything is scaled accordingly.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind they often ask a lot of people to help just in case most don't show up. I volunteered the last couple of times but they already had enough hands to handle it.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Yeah I guess so, I mostly volunteered to be helpful anyway, counting pieces of paper isn't the way I picture an entertaining night. :p
I was #3 on the list, and a (rather pretty ;) ) woman was registering just after me, and it was just 8:30. So I'm sure they'll find more than enough counting hands in the end.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
Is France really so right wing that Le Pen v Fillon is one of the most likely outcomes?
Click to expand...

Well France is traditionnally more on the right anyway (at least by its own definition of right wing), but since we're at the end of a left wing presidency with historically low levels of popularity, a win of the right was expected. It was a sure win for Fillon 4-5 months ago, before the Penelopegate broke out.
 
J

Jb

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
Is France really so right wing that Le Pen v Fillon is one of the most likely outcomes?
Click to expand...

No. I'd recommend checking your English news source of choice for a more detailed snapshot of the current political landscape but the election is basically about which anti-system candidates will voters choose.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Alx said:
Well France is traditionnally more on the right anyway (at least by its own definition of right wing), but since we're at the end of a left wing presidency with historically low levels of popularity, a win of the right was expected. It was a sure win for Fillon 4-5 months ago, before the Penelopegate broke out.
Click to expand...

Ah, right. I forgot about Hollande's unpopularity. That makes it easier to make sense of the poll numbers I've seen.
 
G

G.O.O.

Member
Alx said:
Ayé, voté.
I even agreed to help for the ballot count tonight (first time for me), so I guess I won't even get to watch the first results on TV. I wonder if the counters get to know about them, on one hand it would make sense not to, but on the other hand it's hard to hold that information when everybody has a smartphone in his pocket.
Click to expand...
Have fun doing that ! It'll teach you to hate white votes aswell as all the "funny" people who write on their ballot or put weird shit in the envelope to make a statement :p
 
A

Aswell

Member
A voté
First time using an electronic voting machine, it somehow feels different from the traditional "paper sheet in a small envelope" way I have been used to in the countryside.

I really hope the abstention record from 2002 will not be beaten today.
 
T

TheWasTheJoke

Member
Praying for a Melanchon win, he's the only one who can fix France problems.

The Russia conspiracies in this thread though are amazing, people have lost their minds.
 
M

Magni

Member
^ If Macron (or heck, even Fillon) wins, I hope Mélenchon voters will at least give them a chance. Way too much "only he can fix it" talk from them.

Off to the embassy, great day here in Tokyo for a 5km bike ride. Hope the ride will be shorter than the wait once I get there (good thing there's a lot less of us here than in Montréal). Dinner with friends last night, the other French guy there wasn't properly registered to vote >< Oh well.

Edit: well, hundreds of people in line
 
J

Jb

Member
TheWasTheJoke said:
Praying for a Melanchon win, he's the only one who can fix France problems.
Click to expand...
I mean you seem very knowledgeable about all things France and do make a really compelling and well argued case supporting your claim so you must be right. I should head back to the polling stations and see if I can change my vote.

/second degré
 
T

TheWasTheJoke

Member
Jb said:
I mean you seem very knowledgeable about all things France and do make a really compelling and well argued case supporting your claim so you must be right. I should head back to the polling stations and see if I can change my vote.

/second degré
Click to expand...


I mean we all agree Fillon and Le Pen suck so I'm not going to bother with them. Macron embodies the status quo and the current economic establishment. He will to continue to support the Euro even if it chokes the economy due to inability to utilise monetary policy. He won't raise taxes in order to curb increasing inequality which is reducing the tax base just at the time when ageing populations means it is under pressure. I very much doubt he will undertake the drastic action on climate change needed. Hamon's a little better but he's not going to win.

On Russia the whole thing is kind of ridiculous. Putin is leading a decrepit, dying country and is being militaristic to save face, but he will never do anything serious. The US interference is kind of bunk, phising and meetings do not qualify as an 'attack on sovereignty" and the whole thing is stealing rhetoric away from far more important issues such as healthcare and climate change.

Just my unqualified opinion, you're allowed to give yours and I'd much rather hear that than condescending rubbish.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
TheWasTheJoke said:
On Russia the whole thing is kind of ridiculous. Putin is leading a decrepit, dying country and is being militaristic to save face, but he will never do anything serious. The US interference is kind of bunk, phising and meetings do not qualify as an 'attack on sovereignty" and the whole thing is stealing rhetoric away from far more important issues such as healthcare and climate change.
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Nothing serious, tell that to the people of Georgia and Crimea. Or even Syria.
 
A

Alej

Banned
oti said:
I'm sure he would keep all of his realistic campaign promises. Becasue that's how the economy works.
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You want to teach me how economy works? Yeah go ahead. Teach Joseph Stiglitz too and the whole lot of the neo-keynesian ones.

JFYI, i have a degree in Economics Sciences. Go ahead bro. Make me hate inflation.
 
P

pswii60

Member
JordanN said:
If Le Pen wins, Putin will have 3 puppet states (USA, UK, France).

Or the new Axis Powers.
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I don't get the UK thing. Our government has no time for Putin, and even the Trump love from May is fake as fuck (if you were suggesting indirect puppetry through him).
 
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