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[thepotatoman]

I think part of the reason their win rates are in the "OP tier" is because they are the best defensive heroes in the game that normally only get played on defense. It's pretty rare to see them on the offensive side. Symmetra always been a mislabeled character on the select screen as she should be under defense. Her giving shields to everybody at the beginning was a dubious at best reason to put her under support.

Of course, but is having a 60% winrate when they are played on defense actually balanced?

Also defense is like a third of playtime, yet they are only a 3% pick rate.

 

[Talonz]

Her having ultimate is fine, but what is NOT fine is how quickly it charges. Her ult is by far the strongest in the game, and the amount of time it takes to earn it should reflect that. Seeing it popping off every minute or so is not okay and does ruin games.

Her rez can charge in as quick as 40 seconds. It's a pretty absurd charge rate. I hope they make it line of sight too.

 

[Kysen]

At least Jeff acknowledges how BS mercy res is and they are looking to change it.

 

[TWrecks310]

If they are looking at changing Mercy's ultimate, I hope they change it to where it can only rez one person, but it charges extremely fast. This removes all the bullshit people don't like about the character and reduces the amount of time players will be hiding.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Yeah. That difference is an automatically reloading shotgun, multiple escape options, and a passive that gives you shields as you fuck people up.

The difference? This kinda sounds fun to play against. His shields are the only thing that worry me.

 

[Blues1990]

Her rez can charge in as quick as 40 seconds. It's a pretty absurd charge rate. I hope they make it line of sight too.

Pretty much.

I was fine when they changed Zarya's ultimate charge rate, given how ridiculous it was for Graviton Surge to appear in almost every confrontation and you now have to make it count.

I see no reason why they can't make a similar change to Mercy.

 

[MCD]

Mercy's rez charge rate should be related to howe many she rezed

For example: start of the match = same rate we are used to

If she solo rez then it stays the same

If she rez more like 3 or 4 then it should take longer

Good or bad idea?

 

[peakish]

Mercy's rez charge rate should be related to howe many she rezed

For example: start of the match = same rate we are used to

If she solo rez then it stays the same

If she rez more like 3 or 4 then it should take longer

Good or bad idea?

Too complex. Rates should be fixed, it's better to rework her ultimate. The more I've thought of her the more I like the idea of single target res's only, charging more quickly than they do now. Keep her in the action.

 

[Veelk]

The difference? This kinda sounds fun to play against. His shields are the only thing that worry me.

Yeah, okay, say that when you get one shot killed from across the map. Because it's your teammates that are the ones who gonna be having the fun trying to take out the Doomfist, because you're dead.

Or unless you're saying you are finding it fun the perspective of the guy NOT getting oneshot, because then you can fight Doomfist without his oneshot ability? Well, that's not much different from seeing Hog get his cooldown and now you dive him because you know he's vulnerable. I love playing against Hog like that because even if I don't kill him, I get MASSIVE ult charge.

So, to bring it back to the original point, I have no doubt that Doomfist will be a fun hero. But if they nerfed hog because they are against oneshot kills, then Doomfist's ability to do the same thing isn't coherent with that vision.

 

[TheThinWhiteDuke]

Yeah, okay, say that when you get one shot killed from across the map. Because it's your teammates that are the ones who gonna be having the fun trying to take out the Doomfist, because you're dead.

Or unless you're saying you are finding it fun the perspective of the guy NOT getting oneshot, because then you can fight Doomfist without his oneshot ability? Well, that's not much different from seeing Hog get his cooldown and now you dive him because you know he's vulnerable. I love playing against Hog like that because even if I don't kill him, I get MASSIVE ult charge.

So, to bring it back to the original point, I have no doubt that Doomfist will be a fun hero. But if they nerfed hog because they are against oneshot kills, then Doomfist's ability makes no sense.

The difference is that 'Hog didn't have to charge his hook, didn't have to have a wall near him to throw someone into, and didn't end up behind enemy lines whether he hit or missed his toss.

I really don't understand the comparison. Lucio boop off the map? More comparable to 'Hog's one-hit kill, IMO.

 

[Nimby]

In case if anyone wanted to hear Jeff's thoughts on balance changes for the game.

When does Overwatch 2 come out?

 

[Veelk]

The difference is that 'Hog didn't have to charge his hook, didn't have to have a wall near him to throw someone into, and didn't end up behind enemy lines whether he hit or missed his toss.

I really don't understand the comparison. Lucio boop off the map? More comparable to 'Hog's one-hit kill, IMO.

The difference also is that Hog's hook didn't go through shields, had an 8 second cooldown, and Hog had no recourse if he missed.

And we can do this all day. Doomfist has this, well Roadhog has that, and so on.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that while there are differences in how Doomfist works, the Hook is atleast as balanced as Doomfist's charge ability. But Blizzard felt the need to nerf Hog because it was a one shot-kill and therefore it wasn't 'fun'. Well, if the principle is that one shot kills aren't fun, and then they go an release this dude that is going to be oneshotting a whole ton of people, then there's something of a contradiction in that.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Yeah, okay, say that when you get one shot killed from across the map. Because it's your teammates that are the ones who gonna be having the fun trying to take out the Doomfist, because you're dead.

Or unless you're saying you are finding it fun the perspective of the guy NOT getting oneshot, because then you can fight Doomfist without his oneshot ability? Well, that's not much different from seeing Hog get his cooldown and now you dive him because you know he's vulnerable. I love playing against Hog like that because even if I don't kill him, I get MASSIVE ult charge.

So, to bring it back to the original point, I have no doubt that Doomfist will be a fun hero. But if they nerfed hog because they are against oneshot kills, then Doomfist's ability to do the same thing isn't coherent with that vision.

I mean... I'm a Pharah main >=D

I can also see a resurgence of Hog with doomfist. Hogs shorty will prolly fuck him up and if you want to avoid the doomfist just hang out with the hog. I feel like hog might be in his current state with Doomfist in mind. Him mei and Pharah seem like the counters.

-all thoughts of somebody who has yet to play him at all

 

[Dead Prince]

I'm loving the all support team. Thanks bliz

 

[Veelk]

In other news, I can't believe I've been playing Genji like shit for the last several months when all I needed to do to be halfway competent with him was assign dash to shoulder button. Hell, even though my reflect should be theoretically less effective, I've managed to deflect McCree's ult back in his face for the first time. I didn't hit shit with it before.

The answer was in front of me all along. I'm so happy and frustrated with myself at the same time lol

 

[Blues1990]

When does Overwatch 2 come out?

When I say it does.

 

[Nimby]

In other news:

Selfless team was dropped (Sinatraa, Emongg, Dafran formerly)
No more foreign teams at APEX starting next season

 

[Anne]

I'm going to continue being petty and point out I called all this Roadhog shit like a year ago.

This whole thing is getting super predictable.

 

[Karsticles]

In case if anyone wanted to hear Jeff's thoughts on balance changes for the game.

While I believe moving Roadhog away from a 1 shot combo was a necessary thing we had to do,

I'm not entirely satisfied with where he's at right now

:/

I'm going to continue being petty and point out I called all this Roadhog shit like a year ago.

This whole thing is getting super predictable.

?

 

[OkayRene]

Why are Overwatch tournaments only streamed at 720p60? Surely they can afford better equipment to stream at 1080p60?

 

[antitrop]

Finally stopped being lazy and did my placements.

 

[LiK]

In case if anyone wanted to hear Jeff's thoughts on balance changes for the game.

Well, he's right. Game is fairly balanced overall. It's the players that are the problem.

 

[antitrop]

I beat Lassiz in one of my placement matches, too (I was just playing Lucio and getting carried, but ya know).

Had Stevo on my team today and won and had Lassiz on the enemy team and won. Not bad.

 

[TheThinWhiteDuke]

The difference also is that Hog's hook didn't go through shields, had an 8 second cooldown, and Hog had no recourse if he missed.

And we can do this all day. Doomfist has this, well Roadhog has that, and so on.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that while there are differences in how Doomfist works, the Hook is atleast as balanced as Doomfist's charge ability. But Blizzard felt the need to nerf Hog because it was a one shot-kill and therefore it wasn't 'fun'. Well, if the principle is that one shot kills aren't fun, and then they go an release this dude that is going to be oneshotting a whole ton of people, then there's something of a contradiction in that.

It wasn't the one-shot kill part that they thought wasn't fun, necessarily- again, see Lucio Boop. It was the process of getting hooked, knowing you were dead, and still having to watch it all play out. That was what they were responding to.

But you're right, we can go back and forth all day. I was simply trying to understand something I've heard from numerous people I respect that I just didn't get.

 

[MCD]

I really hate doomfist ult. It's like junkrat except you can't see, hear or stop or even deflect it.

Disgusting.

There is always hacking but good luck coordinating that before he ults.

 

[TheThinWhiteDuke]

In other news, I can't believe I've been playing Genji like shit for the last several months when all I needed to do to be halfway competent with him was assign dash to shoulder button. Hell, even though my reflect should be theoretically less effective, I've managed to deflect McCree's ult back in his face for the first time. I didn't hit shit with it before.

The answer was in front of me all along. I'm so happy and frustrated with myself at the same time lol

It is really weird how one button change can make you so much better. When I moved Lucio's jump to L2, all of a sudden I could wall-ride with ease. It totally changed a boring character to one I don't mind having to play. Occasionally.

 

[TheThinWhiteDuke]

I'm going to continue being petty and point out I called all this Roadhog shit like a year ago.

This whole thing is getting super predictable.

I miss you, Anne. Come give us any "I told you so"s you can come up with. Anytime.

 

[TheThinWhiteDuke]

I really hate doomfist ult. It's like junkrat except you can't see, hear or stop or even deflect it.

Disgusting.

There is always hacking but good luck coordinating that before he ults.

You can block it with barriers? Might be worth a try.

 

[Psychoward]

that jeff post lol

completely whiffed with the sym and torb explanation and hog is still broken


even if they buff him, them moving away from his one shot destroyed his role and fun

Edit: also lol "we patch more than you guys give it credit for"

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Personally, I'm believer in change for the sake of change in game balance. The number one goal of a game is fun, and a stale meta is not fun. Hopefully Doomfist is enough to shake it up. Otherwise I agree with what he's saying.

Sym and Torb win rates being op is certainly interesting too. It's always been interesting to me that even GM has crazy win rates with those two on stat sites but they don't see a second of play at the professional level. I'm sure the pros know what they're doing, but you'd think you'd see more of them on ladder where they are succeeding, at least in certain situations.

actually you do see sym and torb a few times (but not alot) at the professional level. Lunatic hai has used sym and torb randomly before (situationally).

you never see Mei much in higher tiers, but meta athena and lunatic hai have used Mei before in a couple situations.

 

[Veelk]

But you're right, we can go back and forth all day. I was simply trying to understand something I've heard from numerous people I respect that I just didn't get.

I guess the real difference is that some people just don't find dying to certain abilities fun. I don't mind Roadhog's Hook because of all the ways I can play with it before it comes out (I am pretty good at baiting hooks with Tracer) and once you get passed that, he's just an ult battery that is mostly, though not entirely, helpless against large portion of the cast. But I'm one of those wierdo's that sees nothing wrong with Hanzo's scattershot either (If it was half as effortless as people say, pro's would be using it to get easy one hit kills, not Widowmaker).

On the other hand, I find Soldier to be a very unfun hero to die. He shoots at you out of the range of most heroes, but he's hard to dive since he has infinite sprint and a heal station. He might not be that big a deal on PC, but he felt (and to some extent still does) oppressive on consoles.

It is really weird how one button change can make you so much better. When I moved Lucio's jump to L2, all of a sudden I could wall-ride with ease. It totally changed a boring character to one I don't mind having to play. Occasionally.

L2 for jump is a universal change that, at this point, I applied to every character, and assigned the least aim intensive ability to the X button. It's not as useful on some characters as on others, but it just FEELS better to be able to jump without disengaging your aim.

Lucio and Genji benefit the most from it, but it helps with everyone. It's turned McCree and Junkrat from characters that feel awkward to play to ones that feel much more smooth. I honestly feel I can enjoy playing every character now, when there were some with whom I just wasn't having it.

Also, I land WAY more of Tracer's pulse bombs than I did now that I bound it to R1, and I don't miss a step by assigning Rewind to X. It's great.

 

[Berserking Guts]

Meh. Whatevs.

 

[LiK]

Meh. Whatevs.

Lol

 

[Berserking Guts]

Lol

Lol

I'll go this shit alone like I usually do.

 

[MCD]

And oh yeah

Now that Overwatch is totally animu when will they introduce a shounen hero?

 

[Blues1990]

And oh yeah

Now that Overwatch is totally animu when will they introduce a shounen hero?

Take your pick.

 

[MCD]

A ninja who can only use his sword when he ults. Also too old to be a shounen protagonist.

Hanzo is old + no one likes him.

 

[Berserking Guts]

Stomped. I felt bad for the other team lol

Think I'm back to Soldier again.

 

[Terareflection]

I care a lot of game balance as much as the next person, but I give zero fucks about how bad Roadhog is RN.

I granted I am still perplexed about why they buffed Winston in the first place, he was played a lot in tourneys. I guess he wasn't played much in comp?

 

[LiK]

0-2 comeback win. Yea boyz

50% kill participation as Zen, hee

 

[Ramirez]

Owzers carried me to Masters, bless him.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I care a lot of game balance as much as the next person, but I give zero fucks about how bad Roadhog is RN.

I granted I am still perplexed about why they buffed Winston in the first place, he was played a lot in tourneys. I guess he wasn't played much in comp?

on the pro level, winston was being played more on certain maps. but people still was going Rein.

Rein was the main.

 

[LiK]

Gonna upload our win later. I loved killing a Sombra coming out of stealth with my charged shot as Zen. That was hilarious.

 

[Berserking Guts]

Booped McCree and Mercy followed him. Sorry Mercy.

 

[thepotatoman]

I really hate doomfist ult. It's like junkrat except you can't see, hear or stop or even deflect it.

Disgusting.

There is always hacking but good luck coordinating that before he ults.

Basically any mobility ability pretty reliably dodges it, at least into the range where it doesn't do that much damage, and with spreading out you usually can't get more than one or two to be damaged at all.

It's basically a dva ult. 1 or 2 kills if you're lucky on an immobile hero, but mostly just good for making everyone give up position. Except this one can put Doomfist in danger.

 

[MCD]

Gonna upload our win later. I loved killing a Sombra coming out of stealth with my charged shot as Zen. That was hilarious.

Wanna see something more funny?

My friend was dancing on the payload on comp:

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/McDragon Live/video/33769878

 

[Berserking Guts]

When is Doomfist coming to ps4?

 

[Owzers]

Owzers carried me to Masters, bless him.

Everybody should get masters/diamond before I become a doomfist main.

 

[LiK]

When is Doomfist coming to ps4?

If no delays, probably 2 weeks. He's pretty buggy in the PTR atm.

Owzers carried me to Masters, bless him.

Gimme some credit too. You got your heals!

 

[Nuno Pinto]

I'm only now noticing that I'm on a 9 or 10 win streak, no wonder I was getting so much SR.

0-2 comeback win. Yea boyz

50% kill participation as Zen, hee

That game was intense but we did have a Hanzo and Hog in the first rounds lol

I really like having you on Zen.

Owzers carried me to Masters, bless him.

We have to take advantage while we can... doom days are coming.