Once the Ult nerfs go live, we'll see how it changes up the game/meta. I'm all for it.
uh huh
uh huh
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Overwatch |OT6| Boop
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Incendiary
Banned
Yeah. That's why most of the time I hate Eichenwalde. It's just impossible to push with an uncoordinated team. Eichenwalde first point is basically the Matador of Overwatch - either you get your shit together and learn the mechanics of the game, or you lose.
Regardless if you get rid of him, another character would be introduced that served his purpose. Pharah's not going to be the only burst rocket type damage. It's just people misuse him all the time.
DevilDog
Member
Thats pretty accurate. Kaplan pls.
LucidMomentum
Member
Anyone want some barbecue?
DevilDog
Member
All this Junkrat hate is depressing
He's definitely not the best hero in the game but in capable hands hes great.
Honestly his biggest problem is that 90% of the user base doesn't know how to use him correctly.
First of all he is a luck based spam hero, which is enough for me to kick him out of the game.
Second he is a niche hero, useful in very very specific situations, which is enough to warrant a rework.
All this Junkrat hate is depressing
He's definitely not the best hero in the game but in capable hands hes great.
Honestly his biggest problem is that 90% of the user base doesn't know how to use him correctly.
He's only useful on defense. When you're on offense it's significantly harder to confirm kills with him. So mostly he just throws out trash damage and doesn't help you gain a point.
He's not luck based. There's a lot more finesse to junkrat than a lot of people give him credit for, especially in regards to his concussion mine. And he's not that niche. Just defense-only. He doesn't need a rework.
xaosslug
Member
how do y'all SoloQing peeps do it? Constantly being grouped w/ peeps that can't handle Bastion or Torb, and feel like a no healer and a single tank will suffice, but can't even bring the pain as a DPS... I think my spirit has been sufficiently broken for the day. T__T
also, I think I encountered a troll, today. It was a diamond guy that mained Rein + Roadhog, but ran Genji instead on defense (we had no Rein, and I was the only tank - D.Va) and then part of the way through the match he switches to McCree. And then on attack he ran Torb.
wtf?
we lost, obviously.
i thought we were talking about Junkrat, not Hanzo...
also, I think I encountered a troll, today. It was a diamond guy that mained Rein + Roadhog, but ran Genji instead on defense (we had no Rein, and I was the only tank - D.Va) and then part of the way through the match he switches to McCree. And then on attack he ran Torb.
wtf?
we lost, obviously.
i thought we were talking about Junkrat, not Hanzo...
Incendiary
Banned
First, he can be played as a luck-based spam hero but trivializing him to just that is just dumb.
Second, why does every hero have to have maximum utility? The world needs niche heroes. If every character is useful in every situation, no characters are useful.
Junkrat: "Someone kill that widow!"
"Then go Winston"
Junkrat: "But I have gold elims and damage!"
¯\_(ツ_/¯
If he's getting BOTH gold elims and gold damage, then he's doing fine. Clearly the other DPS members on your team aren't pulling as much weight. So if your major DPS switches over to Winston that'll mean you've crushed your team's DPS.
If his response was ONLY gold damage, then we might have a discussion about the junkrat being the problem.
DevilDog
Member
I cannot tell you the amount of times I've died to a junkrat because he accidentally hit me with one of his bombs.
His aim was bad, missed me, and the grenade bounced off somewhere randomly and hit me for 120 damage. Or he completely mis-predicts my movement, I know where he is supposed to shoot so I move out of the way and then his bomb hits me by accident.
Then he throws his mine in my general direction and I'm dead.
And whether someone gets trapped is lucky as well. If one of his dead teammates or any random object in the map falls on it, you literally can't see it.
i thought we were talking about Junkrat, not Hanzo...
Thats adorable, is that a baby sloth?
Hey, I have my own gripes with Hanzo but for different reasons, his scatter for starters.
I don't want to degrade him no nothing, sorry if it came out that way, he reguires some finesse but I can't stand luck based fights with him. Whats the point of skill if the RNG gods decide if you'll hit me or not.
As of now I feel junkrat is very very niche.
LurkerPrime
Member
These are SO GOOD! Just wish they all had English subs. But the animations and sound effects are fantastic--it's really awesome to hear something so familiar, yet so alien.
Thanks for the link!
Junkrat has a lot of utility on top of his offensive skills and doesn't need the precision aim of other defense heroes. He's a natural choice for a lot of people, I think.
A bad junkrat can get a few lucky kills but that doesn't mean that it's impossible for a junkrat to be good. He's not an aim-based hero but there are other tools in his kit and ways to play him that require finesse and skill.
His bombs deal a lot of damage and have a huge splash damage radius. He's intentionally meant to be surpressive. Don't assume you're safe anytime you're in junkrat's line of fire.
There is no RNG involved in how his grenades behave.
Incendiary
Banned
This is one of my favorite times I played as Junkrat. Trigger warning: there is a lot of me doing Junkrat spam in this video, but we were holding a pretty awful team at the first choke on Numbani so there wasn't much else for me to do. But when there was an opportunity I took it. Twice.
I just think people don't think to play Junkrat as a more complex character. They see explosions and think "yes, lots of damage!" And don't go beyond that.
Junkrat: "Someone kill that widow!"
"Then go Winston"
Junkrat: "But I have gold elims and damage!"
¯\_(ツ
Seems like he is doing his job well. One of the dps that is doing a shittier job should be the one changing.
Nuno Pinto
Member
That's why I take my time at the beginning of the match to arrange some objects that can cover my traps
And I definitely disagree about the luck, sure you need some, but well placed traps/bombs and spam are a thing. You can basically cover one entrance all by yourself unless the other team comes in full force.
BumperLips
Member
Does anyone else hate Hanzo, not for his playstyle but his abilities (Scatter and Sonic)?
Scatter is one of, if not THE most bullshit skill in the game.
And Sonic can also cause fuckery with the way it's still active after it falls from a wall (Mei's wall for example)
I've seen so many stupid kills with both these skills that I'm not even mad about the whole hitbox thing. I enjoy playing him and getting sick headshot streaks and wiping the enemy team, but I sort of wish he could get revamped, or at least, fix sonic arrow and change scatter.
Scatter is one of, if not THE most bullshit skill in the game.
And Sonic can also cause fuckery with the way it's still active after it falls from a wall (Mei's wall for example)
I've seen so many stupid kills with both these skills that I'm not even mad about the whole hitbox thing. I enjoy playing him and getting sick headshot streaks and wiping the enemy team, but I sort of wish he could get revamped, or at least, fix sonic arrow and change scatter.
Shouta
Member
He accidentally hit you or he got you to run into his bombs? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I feel like Junkrat might be a bit more interesting once the Ult changes get implemented. It's gonna be harder to push and clear because Ults will be a more scarce resource. So strategies that don't involve them might see the light of day, lol.
He isn't killing anyone, other people are actually killing them instead of charging the healers' ults, it was Gibraltar attack. But it was QP anyway, it's not like it matters. The problem is when a dps slot is wasted by a Junkrat in competitive.
So, basically, delete Junkrat and ingame medals.
Again, QP, but that's beside the point. If you're getting countered, fucking switch yourself. Flexibility is one of the privileges of running dps in solo queue.
Oh and even the shittiest comp has someone with gold medals. If he touched 22 people and Hanzo killed 21, it doesn't mean he's actually helping.
xaosslug
Member
i do find it hilarious that Hanzo has an ability on 20 sec. cooldown (lasts 10 seconds) that is literally another hero's ultimate... what kind of fuckery? xD
DevilDog
Member
That's a nice way of saying that when you're up against a junkrat it's like playing Russian Roulette. You never know when it's going to hit you. Can you handle the suspense?
Yeah, but only then. I know that when they have a junkrat, you should avoid and expect to be hit constantly in small areas. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's on every other part of the map he becomes luck based. Unless you're in his face.
The mind games.
Maybe, but that won't stop him from feeding the enemy team support ults and the Zarya energy.
Incendiary
Banned
I hear ya, I just get a little defensive (heh heh) about Junkrat more than other characters. I've had games where I completely carried as Junkrat (I had a 38-3 or something ridiculous like that once on Defense on Hollywood, where the only times the enemy made progress was when I was dead.) and I feel like I play him well, and being told that I don't have skill and it's all dumb luck if I do well with the characters puts me on the defensive.
I'm not gonna argue that there aren't a lot of shitty Junkrat spammers out there, but he is capable of being a character that's played with skill and not luck.
And I don't think he's as niche as say...Symmetra, or Bastion. Even Widowmaker I'd say is more niche that Junkrat.
If he's not killing anybody he wouldn't have gold elims. I play quite a bit of junkrat myself. I am aware of the gold damage fallacy with junkrat. That doesn't necessarily extend to gold elims. His burst damage is so high that's it's very hard for him to get gold elims without getting kills. It is very easy for a junkrat to kill a squishy character.
No, it's a nice way of saying of don't run into surpressive fire without protection, or you're a moron.
racketpunch
Member
Do we need a Blizzcon pass to watch the Overwatch World Cup streams?
He can be luck based but a good Junkrat actually aims his shots. Which I see so rarely in Overwatch. I used to play a lot of Demoman in TF2 so I learned a long time ago to actually manually aim and land pipe bombs. That skill set still serves me well when I play Junkrat.
I disagree on him being niche. There are certainly maps where he really shines and some where he's next to useless. I've personally had quite a bit of success with playing him on offense but that's just me. He does not need a rework I feel. If anything were to be reworked they should just get rid of his bear trap. Its essentially useless.
Honestly, Junkrat is in a bad place right now considering that his direct counters are waaay stronger and more useful in the meta. Zarya and D.va just completely neutralize him. But if they are not around he can be great. Coupled with people not knowing how to play him correctly it has been a problem and I totally understand the salt towards bad Junkrats though.
xaosslug
Member
honestly, saying Junkrat is 'luck based' is like saying Pharah's luck based (80% of the average Pharah's damage is splash dmg), and so is Lucio's boops... this game focuses HEAVILY on positioning, and yeah if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time/not paying attention you will be punished by any character, it's just that Jdawg's grenades do damage in excess, and he laughs while he does it and that keeps peeps salty.
He's killing some, sure. But how many? And can he reliably get a kill when he needs to? I frequently have gold/silver elims with Lucio. Medals don't mean shit in a game like this, especially when you're losing. I've said it a billion times, but medals displayed while a match is still going are more detrimental than helpful.
I am against Junkrats on my team, not the enemy one.
I'm pretty sure you don't. The main stage announcements and esports events are usually streamed on Twitch. The virtual ticket gets you access to the panels. I've never felt I needed it.
xaosslug
Member
I agree that gold/silver elims generally don't mean much with Lucio. His DPS is so poor that it's very hard to solo kill or almost solo kill with him. Almost every Lucio elim requires followup from a DPS character. Junkrat, by comparison, is very easy to solo kill with. If a squishy gets hit with a grenade it is very easy for them to die, so there aren't as many situations where a Junkrat softens up a squishy and then a McCree or Soldier does the killing blow. And a Junkrat cannot get gold elims if they don't kill squishies.
BumperLips
Member
Honestly I don't think it's too bad since it does cover a limited area and is more time limited...
But the thing is, Widow's ultimate isn't useful for such a long period of time. By the time you use its advantage to kill the enemy team and they come back, its timer is finished. In that sense it's the same as Hanzo's ability.
DevilDog
Member
Let's put it this way. When i die to a Mccree who is great with headshots, I can't get mad, I know he outplayed me and i deserved to die.
If i die in a choke to a junkrat, I know I got outplayed. But if I die to a junkrat in an open area and I'm moving unpreditably, I get tilted. Cause he most likely got a lucky hit on me.
This did not end well. Take a break and continue the discussion later?
How does junkrat compare to the demoman in TF2? Do his grenades take off 120 damage as well?
I have a friend who is a god with junkrat and aims his grenades, he is fun to play against as well, especially because I can counter predict his primary fire. However due to his projectiles being massive and causing massive damage, once he fucks up his aim and hits me by accident he can literally outplay me, just by that. That's no fun.
I feel though his is kind of niche because he is good in specific maps in specific points.
Well, I don't agree with that at all.
xaosslug
Member
eh, just wait the 10 secs and activate it again! ;P
anyway, I've always felt Hanzo's sonic arrow should not allow his allies to see enemies as well. It really throws a wrench in Widowmaker's ult.
that said a lot of Hanzo's kit is straight up bullshit from storm arrow to his ult. But whatever. -__-
Red Arremer
Member
uh huh
If you're getting gold damage + gold elims with junkrat, you're definitely killing people.
Red Arremer
Member
If Sombra does have stealth, I doubt she will have a backstab.
Doesn't mean you don't need to switch though.
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