I suppose it acts as an indirect incentive to use his counters more.
If they really wanted to buff him, they should have just lowered the recharge on recon arrow.
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Overwatch |OT9| There is no Cow Hero
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I suppose it acts as an indirect incentive to use his counters more.
If they really wanted to buff him, they should have just lowered the recharge on recon arrow.
SgtWiggles
Member
Nothing in the notes about the Symmetra tele glitch? Seems like its getting abused a lot more on PS4 due to lesser report features, just lost a match because of it
Hazardous Metal
Member
He's still largely going to be shit for lesser skilled players but good Hanzo's will be able to do more with him. Hanzo currently is unfavourable at all but the highest skill levels because of how mechanically demanding he is combined with how many other heros can do what he does more effectively (Widow suffers from the same problem). You're still going to need to be able to hit those headshots and predict movement, the only difference being you aren't punished as much now for missing.
Or that-either way they made him a much better stronger character imo and over did it a bit.
Oh I don't disagree about that at all. Its def the speed boost that was giving him such a must pick for every game-but now he still has a pretty solid speed aura (I don't think it takes that much more skill to use it but thats just me) to go along with increased everything else. I don't think nerfing the healing % + toning down the cool down to boop or even reverting his gun back to before would break his character at all, but would make him more fair while still being pretty unique in that hes the only character with a speed boost option. I'm not sure if I'd want all three of those things but more or less are just some general thoughts on what might help.
Separate note: I also don't understand the Hanzo climbing mechanic with holding down a charged shot. That seems silly
You should be punished if you miss with that character, no other hero puts out the same burst that he and Widow does. Due to the nature of high speed projectile characters, bad players on Hanzo can already spam full power arrows peeking in and out of cover, both changes just encourage this behavior and make good Hanzos even better (which is entirely unnecessary).
I also have a feeling that the changes to attack speed after wall climbing on both Genji and Hanzo are going to have greater gameplay impact than the patchnotes imply, especially in Genji's case.
Hazardous Metal
Member
He honestly may as well not be in the game as he currently is, which is why I'm all for this change. He's going from being a highly situational pick to someone that can actually participate in a team fight at more than just GM level. Again, hitting his shots is just as demanding as before but now you can follow up a little more quickly. I don't think it's nearly as powerful as you're making it out to be. The wallshotting thing will definitely need to be tested a bit more before a consensus can be made but from what I tried it just seems to add a bit more utility in how he can attack things. Peek-shotting can now be done vertically as well as horizontally so that's obviously going to make it a more popular strat.
Peekaboo scatter arrows are going to be fucking terrifying.
Where do all the heroes keep their unlimited ammo?
Oh, the "it's not completely authentic so let's just throw all sense out of the window" argument.
Hanzo might have a quiver that pulls infinite arrows out of a pocket dimension, but his bow still functions like a bow. Or, it used to.
Everyone got a Doraemon magic bag!
Picklebucket_
Banned
Decided to give it another go and yikes is overwatch awful at this point. A complete disregard for logic at every turn and being insulted for even suggesting switching things up to help our chances just keeps pushing me away.
I tend to play reasonably well, do my job in whatever role I'm in and play the objective hard, but holy crap do I get stuck with some dunderheads and I feel like I'll never enjoy this game again. It's too frustrating, having to beat your own team's bad ideas on top of the enemy.
Shame, because this game was super fun until a couple months ago.
I tend to play reasonably well, do my job in whatever role I'm in and play the objective hard, but holy crap do I get stuck with some dunderheads and I feel like I'll never enjoy this game again. It's too frustrating, having to beat your own team's bad ideas on top of the enemy.
Shame, because this game was super fun until a couple months ago.
It's not that I entirely disagree with you, but the fact is that there are a lot of wonky physics beyond this. Symmetra's hand motion doesn't make a lot of sense to me for how she produces her shield (she makes an upwards pinching motion, producing a floating gadget that goes forward?), Genji's shuriken shouldn't be able to fit in his harm, how can Sombra hack Roadhog's gas cannister or Soldier's ability to run and so on, not to mention the fact that premise of the game has some characters working with characters they should never get along with (Widowmaker: Hi Ana, how's the eye!), or even the fact that they are fighting clones of themselves.
Overwatch. It don't make sense, but they'll do it if they feel it helps the game. And now, Hanzo players don't have to worry about basically reloading to get their shot off when climbing. And I think that's worth it. If it bugs you that much, you can just pretend it's actually just a feature where he reloads superfast after climbing if he readies himself beforehand.
ScottSullivan
Member
Anyone on HOTS for the games? Sully907#1429
Orochinagis
Member
Lol, Arisa is now a barrier bot, go cry Reinhard
Rickenslacker
Banned
I love the added recoil recovery aim compensation option for McCree, Widow, and Ana. Doesn't make a difference for me with Ana and Widow, but McCree's large shot kickback and my natural propensity to compensate for that always made playing him more annoying than necessary.
papasmurf1038
Neo Member
Every single game I played tonight had a player who was throwing. Mostly the throwers ended up on the opposite team so I gained a bunch of SR, but it was still a pretty miserable experience. Is this just what Overwatch is going to be now?
Karsticles
Member
Nerf Soldier and Pharah and the game is in a much better place.
Orochinagis
Member
Low elo or high elo? Low elo tend to be a horrible team comp
Pharah just dumps on Widow. That's not going to change any time soon. I honestly don't even consider Widow a Pharah counter any more, especially with the popularity of Winston.
Then again, I don't think that Soldier is an especially good counter for her either. If Pharah is on attack and 76 on defense then yes he can do pretty well against her, but all things being equal Pharah has a pretty damn good chance of killing 76. When 76 has a D.Va or a Zenyatta to help him then it really tips the scales, but by himself he's not particularly dangerous to Pharah.
I don't expect the Soldier change to have any real effect on Pharah's viability, at least from where I'm sitting (mid-master PC, a lot of playtime on Pharah). He's still going to shut her down when he's well-entrenched and supported by his team and she's still going to slaughter him in 1v1s.
This is probably all moot, however, since I think a lot of the concern about Pharah comes from console players, who probably have a reason to be irate.
Is it wierd that I just don't have that bad a Pharah experience on consoles?
They're only really annoying with Mercys supporting them, but somehow people always manage to take her down eventually. I've had games where some pharah were just vicious, sure, but I've had games where any givne character was just vicious. It hasn't been a regular problem.
And 1 point of damage doesn't just make Soldier moot. I mean, it's good and I'm happy and I want Soldier to continue eating a dick and get more nerfs but 19 damage a bullet is still gonna hurt.
Karsticles
Member
My concern with Pharah is that she forces a particular team comp, and punishes you if you don't abide by that requisite. I don't have problems with her personally since I main a character that can harass and kill her now and then, but I can't see how it's healthy for the game that one particular character does this to the game.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
Orisa dmg nerf? 
LurkerPrime
Member
I'm probably forgetting someone, but is Widow-Winston the hardest counter in the game? Ol' Winny effectively cancels out Widow in even her best-case scenario.
Bastion-Genji is a runner up.
It's gonna be weird times for Orisa. In spite of her impressive DPS, I've found that she struggled to knock out barriers or actually kill people. Having even more barriers flying around will only worsen this.
I think part of it is how little mobility she has. If she isn't parked behind a barrier she's getting sniped or focused down the second she effectively stops to shoot. Might just be that I've not adapted to her weird bullet travel time yet, though.
Bastion-Genji is a runner up.
Orisa dmg nerf?
It's gonna be weird times for Orisa. In spite of her impressive DPS, I've found that she struggled to knock out barriers or actually kill people. Having even more barriers flying around will only worsen this.
I think part of it is how little mobility she has. If she isn't parked behind a barrier she's getting sniped or focused down the second she effectively stops to shoot. Might just be that I've not adapted to her weird bullet travel time yet, though.
Psychoward
Banned
As opposed to Reinhardt which is like a quasi-mandatory pick in any non-pro comp?
At least with pharah when you hit her you hit her, with rein, the Winston barrier buff(which was needed imo) and now the plain stupid Orisa barrier buff, get ready to be hitting a lot of sponges for the next few weeks.
Psychoward
Banned
I don't like playing as Sombra much but I'll acknowledge that Blizzard took her in the right direction with her buffs. Instead of just buffing her smg damage and making her dollar-store tracer, they made her unique abilities stronger and more defined.Orisa dmg nerf?
By nerfing Orisa's damage by a sizable amount when it wasn't an issue in the first place and buffing her already stupid barrier CD I feel like they're taking her in the opposite direction I want her to be in. Personally I would have added 50 armor for a total of 450 hit points and see how that worked out or maybe rework her secondary fire a bit.
Every character in this game, to some extent, has some effect on the viability of the opposing team's composition. Pharah's effect is fairly high but it is a) not nearly as high as someone like Winston or Reinhardt on certain maps and b) forces you to pick from a fairly large pool of characters. Pharah can be countered reasonably well by, say, a hitscan plus one other Pharah counter, which is pretty general in a game where there are many reasons to use hitscans.
Pharmercy necessitates more specific counters but it is also self-nullifying (Pharah is quite bad at killing both Pharah and Mercy) and takes up two slots on your team. Mercy is also pretty limited use outside of that combo, so anything that brings her into play is good.
Besides, forcing people to adapt by changing heroes doesn't necessarily amount to high degrees of viability. Bastion often forces the enemy team to switch but he still sucks.
Honestly, I've never played OW on consoles. I'm just assuming based on what I　imagine the game would be like if everyone's accuracy and movement was diminished.
I sometimes have other problems with the game than most seem to.
For example, Soldier bothered me WAY more than anyone else.
So it might just be me.
But I just don't think 1 point of damage is going to make him go from OP-> worthless
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah Soldier's reign as the mandatory dps pick was much longer and stronger than any pharah dominance on console. I know because he helped me climb/carry to plat last season. Pretty much every game I played I'd have gold elims and gold damage and combine that with the healing station and stupidly good ult and lol
I still don't think console pharah needs a nerf too, maybe after the soldier slight nerf she'll need some tuning down but idk
Really if anything I think console McCree would benefit from a slight buff since he relies on precision a lot more than any other offense hero in the game. The main reason why I thought the soldier buff was so dumb before the meta started to change was he rendered console mccree near useless. Why pick him when you could pick soldier? He had better damage output, less penalty for bad aim, a much better ult, sprinting and group healing.
I probably missed my chance out of stubbornness but I just came to loathe this character so much that I refuse to play him on sheer principle. I never played him before because I didn't like him, but it just became ridiculous after the buff and I just refused to touch him for the most part.
And they're STILL not treating him different from the PC version. Which is dumb. They insist that PC torb is just too hardcore for console players so we still have him nerfed, but this fucking monster is okay despite having a huge advantage from other characters with autoaim?
I don't want the problem to just shift over to McCree. I think once Soldier's damage goes down, he might be a bit more viable just by making some space.
Still, I'm worried 19 won't be enough of a nerf. I thought he was perfectly fine at 17 on consoles. I know I still saw him plenty, but I saw plenty of McCree there too. I want that to come back.
Spartancarver
Member
Still waiting on Blizzard to give Ana's cancer grenade the nerf it deserves.
Most bullshit ability in the entire game.
Most bullshit ability in the entire game.
I think they should still look at giving McCree a couple buffs. He was balanced back when DPS in general didn't put out that much damage, but in the current climate of high damage and barriers, his flaws are still a little too damning.
When they changed how his damage at range worked and he became snipercree, they tried to balance it by having the damage dropoff past 30 meters (or whatever it was) be sharp, and when they brought that range down to midrange (21 meters?) They kept the sharp dropoff, which was fine then, but now Pharah and Mercy can stay so much higher in the air. And Soldier can pump out good damage at that range. So he's... sorta back where he was vs. Solders range before the attempts at buffing him.
Fan the hammer was insane at launch. But it's damage these days isn't great for anything but the flashbang combo. Maybe it's range could be retooled so he could be able to use it to be more competitive at damaging barriers?
It's weird that fladhbang can be countered by simply jumping. I mean, you can play around it too but it just feels clunky and outdated, like Roadhog's hook before the fix.
High Noon feels like a joke at this point. You can still pull off some cool shit with it but it feels like everybody's been well conditioned to counter it now.
He's also just so damn slow. The time it takes for him to get into a battle feels very detrimental compared to other heroes.
All of these things don't need solutions, but as a whole right now it feels like he's outdated. He feels like you don't get much out of him compared to Soldier 76, despite the amount of skill required to be good with McCree being higher.
Who knows, maybe the damage nerf to soldier will solve everything! But maaaaybe it would be nice if the cooldown to McCree's roll was reduced.
EDIT: I typed more than I thought I would and it's a bunch of theory craftng. Crap. -_-
When they changed how his damage at range worked and he became snipercree, they tried to balance it by having the damage dropoff past 30 meters (or whatever it was) be sharp, and when they brought that range down to midrange (21 meters?) They kept the sharp dropoff, which was fine then, but now Pharah and Mercy can stay so much higher in the air. And Soldier can pump out good damage at that range. So he's... sorta back where he was vs. Solders range before the attempts at buffing him.
Fan the hammer was insane at launch. But it's damage these days isn't great for anything but the flashbang combo. Maybe it's range could be retooled so he could be able to use it to be more competitive at damaging barriers?
It's weird that fladhbang can be countered by simply jumping. I mean, you can play around it too but it just feels clunky and outdated, like Roadhog's hook before the fix.
High Noon feels like a joke at this point. You can still pull off some cool shit with it but it feels like everybody's been well conditioned to counter it now.
He's also just so damn slow. The time it takes for him to get into a battle feels very detrimental compared to other heroes.
All of these things don't need solutions, but as a whole right now it feels like he's outdated. He feels like you don't get much out of him compared to Soldier 76, despite the amount of skill required to be good with McCree being higher.
Who knows, maybe the damage nerf to soldier will solve everything! But maaaaybe it would be nice if the cooldown to McCree's roll was reduced.
EDIT: I typed more than I thought I would and it's a bunch of theory craftng. Crap. -_-
Try out limits. It's super chill. Crack open a beer and let the insanity wash over you.
Just to keep things in perspective, soldier just needs 1 extra bullet to put down any 200hp hero. And unlike pre-buf, he's doing almost as much damage as he was before, so if you are even a little damaged, he will basically be like he is now. This buff helps, but I think we're gonna still be seeing him for quite some time.
And I agree everything about McCree. I don't play him, but I tried learning him because I love his blackwatch skin. His pistol feels like his ONLY significant advantage. I mean, flashbang is decent too, but that only does so much. On top of a smaller cooldown, I wouldn't mind seeing it cover more ground so it has some actual dodging utility.
I'd love it if they reworked Mcree. He's one of my favorites to play, but you're basically playing without an ult unless you get really lucky or spend a lot of time out of the fight, trying to get a good vantage point, just to be countered easily, anyway.
Love the idea of it, but it just sucks to actually pull off.
Love the idea of it, but it just sucks to actually pull off.
I've met plenty of great console McCree players.
Scary to even imagine buffing him.
The only change I think is necessary on console is some sort of Pharah nerf. Even if it doesn't happen it isn't a big deal. Pharmercy combos aren't impossible to deal with if you focus on the mercy first.
Torb/Symmetra being nerfed on console compared to pc is still a head scratcher for me. I don't understand the reasoning.
Scary to even imagine buffing him.
The only change I think is necessary on console is some sort of Pharah nerf. Even if it doesn't happen it isn't a big deal. Pharmercy combos aren't impossible to deal with if you focus on the mercy first.
Torb/Symmetra being nerfed on console compared to pc is still a head scratcher for me. I don't understand the reasoning.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I was surprised that McCree got as much use as he did before the Soldier buffs even because he's just so meat and potatoes compared to a lot of the others and has less derp to him. His entire kit is about just playing as standard and solid as possible. Even when his ult received nerf after nerf people simply looked at it as a zoning tool instead of outright bad. He's got no extra mobility, his rate of fire and reload time makes missing with him much more detrimental than other characters, and despite countering characters like Tracer and Genji he only has a single tool dedicated for that (which Genji can also counter) and has some finnicky reactions with characters in motion.
He's got no health regeneration, no extra mobility, no escape tool, his ult sucks, he's just the rawest point and click there is.
He's got no health regeneration, no extra mobility, no escape tool, his ult sucks, he's just the rawest point and click there is.
Except for Widowmaker. No health regen, she has extra mobility but it's the worst one in the game, her ult has no killing potential and is just a suped up version of Hanzo's regular ability, and her venom mine does fucking NOTHING
Yeah they got to retool her too.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
Widow's whole kit is abysmal. I honestly don't know why she's always selected. The most boring abilities in the game.
She needs a lot of changes. Her hook takes far too long to recharge. Genji can constantly double jump and climb walls but you have to wait twelve seconds to use a hook? Come on.
Her Ult is a complete joke when another character has that same ability every, what? 15 seconds?
The poison mine is...I mean what even is it?
She needs a lot of changes. Her hook takes far too long to recharge. Genji can constantly double jump and climb walls but you have to wait twelve seconds to use a hook? Come on.
Her Ult is a complete joke when another character has that same ability every, what? 15 seconds?
The poison mine is...I mean what even is it?
Trying to get through preliminaries but it feels like such a chore now. The game does feel like its gotten worse recently.
This is all usually down to stuff that gets the general "git gud" response but I think I'm mainly getting tired of heroes having way too much utility and often branching into other roles too much. This is clearly seen in the meta picks.
Lucio has speed boost and healing as an aura so he can still DPS with the wubs or even insta kill with the boop.
Soldier has a good hitscan weapon, a speed boost that isn't linked to a cooldown or meter and then also has an aura healing beacon.
Roadhog has a hook and a short-range shotgun that combo well but then also has a long range shotgun that does the same damage.
Genji has a triple shot that can be split if required, a dash attack that gets refunded if it hits someone, a wall climb, a double jump that messes with his hitbox and finally a deflect move that redirects all damage towards his reticule and has a massive, ill-defined hitbox.
All of these things are coming together to form a game that may be balanced at the top tiers where only certain heroes are picked but anywhere below that it is becoming increasingly frustrating to play. Made worse in ranked due to some carrying, smurfing and the infuriating "Streak" system.
So yeah. Fun game and its the only competitive shooter I've played for this long but where its at right now doesn't feel as fun as when it started or even just last season.
This is all usually down to stuff that gets the general "git gud" response but I think I'm mainly getting tired of heroes having way too much utility and often branching into other roles too much. This is clearly seen in the meta picks.
Lucio has speed boost and healing as an aura so he can still DPS with the wubs or even insta kill with the boop.
Soldier has a good hitscan weapon, a speed boost that isn't linked to a cooldown or meter and then also has an aura healing beacon.
Roadhog has a hook and a short-range shotgun that combo well but then also has a long range shotgun that does the same damage.
Genji has a triple shot that can be split if required, a dash attack that gets refunded if it hits someone, a wall climb, a double jump that messes with his hitbox and finally a deflect move that redirects all damage towards his reticule and has a massive, ill-defined hitbox.
All of these things are coming together to form a game that may be balanced at the top tiers where only certain heroes are picked but anywhere below that it is becoming increasingly frustrating to play. Made worse in ranked due to some carrying, smurfing and the infuriating "Streak" system.
So yeah. Fun game and its the only competitive shooter I've played for this long but where its at right now doesn't feel as fun as when it started or even just last season.
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