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[kirblar]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-attacks-teams-extremists-france-prosecutor/ - CBS reporting that the Syrian passport recovered is showing signs of being a fake.

In retrospect we should have voted for Al Gore. Reading how obvious the signs were of an attack and how GW just ignored that shit. .. I'm convinced 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

There's a high chance it still does. There's 0 chance we blow up Iraq and create Isis in its wake.

 

[Lautaro]

Plus, ISIS isn't just a country. When the allies took over the german lands they had nothing left to fight for. But ISIS isn't bound by an area, only by their ideology. You can kill a lot of them, but in the end the remnants will survive, because they don't wait until they're massacred to the last man. Some may flow back into other terror cells, some may secure assets and dwell in the darkness quietly. The only long term weapon is education and progress. Albeit short term solutions are needed, given what they are doing. I just want to point out that we only ultimately can beat them with progression.

But that's not true, they are bound to an area, they cannot declare caliphate if they don't have lands conquered, some of them are even part of their mythology like Dabiq (where "the army of Rome will be defeated thus starting the countdown to Apocalypse"). If they are not the Caliphate then they cannot have the allegiance of distant movements like Boko Haram and others.

What you cannot defeat with an army is terrorism but the Islamic State can be defeated but it will require ground troops and a long occupation in my opinion.

 

[Netherscourge]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-attacks-teams-extremists-france-prosecutor/ - CBS reporting that the Syrian passport recovered is showing signs of being a fake.

Strange. You'd think they WOULDN'T use a Syrian passport to avoid suspicion and drawing attention.

 

[Oersted]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-attacks-teams-extremists-france-prosecutor/ - CBS reporting that the Syrian passport recovered is showing signs of being a fake.

There's a high chance it still does. There's 0 chance we blow up Iraq and create Isis in its wake.

That news has been going around for a while.

Strange. You'd think they WOULDN'T use a Syrian passport to avoid suspicion...

Btw, do we have confirmation that it is related? A passport is an indication, not a proof.

 

[kirblar]

That news has been going around for a while.

Sorry bout the double post, did a thread search on fake and saw discussion of hyportheticals but couldn't find a linked report.

 

[mercenar1e]

What tools are in place to help Europeans spot fake passports on the border?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Strange. You'd think they WOULDN'T use a Syrian passport to avoid suspicion and drawing attention.

Like people have mentioned earlier in the thread. Setting up a backlash against Syrian refugees would help feed into ISIS's radicalization methods.

 

[antonz]

Strange. You'd think they WOULDN'T use a Syrian passport to avoid suspicion and drawing attention.

Why would they be under suspicion? If anything some border people would probably be relieved to finally have a refugee who had documentation versus the legions of others who have no papers to support anything they claim. In fact articles have mentioned how many are getting fake Syrian passports to actually get in versus trying to get in with their native lands paperwork and face rejection.

If anything it highlights the need for enhanced procedures for entry

 

[Oersted]

Sorry bout the double post, did a thread search on fake and saw discussion of hyportheticals but couldn't find a linked report.

Yeah, could be very well be the case it hasn't be posted here yet. Discussing this topic for about 24 hours on way too many plattforms makes it feel like one very big discussion.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Just curious but has the US taken in any refugees yet? I wonder if this will have an effect on that.

 

[Corto]

Strange. You'd think they WOULDN'T use a Syrian passport to avoid suspicion and drawing attention.

They want to raise fear, chaos and doubt. Blaming the refugees achieves all that. And in a perfectly evil perverse way. These people are running away from them. ISIS wants to kill each and every one of the refugees.

http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...of-syrian-refugees-puts-isis-on-the-defensive

ISIS wanted them to run to their territory. They fleeing to the west is a capital offense.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Like people have mentioned earlier in the thread. Setting up a backlash against Syrian refugees would help feed into ISIS's radicalization methods.

But it does seem that this person did cross into Europe with the overall migration though.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0T312W20151114

He was confirmed to of passed through Greece. Regardless of if he's Syrian it still would have implications for arguments about border enforcement.

 

[dabig2]

So most of people are born sociopath and we can not give them any thing to latch on. Radical religion belief, fascism, etc. Otherwise they will act upon it.

Humans are very social creatures. So we typically group ourselves into tribes, not unlike that of most animals on this planet. However, due to our higher intelligence, we have the same amount of capacity for love and hate, and that capacity is large. There are 3 main tribalist engines today: nationalism (country and borders), race, and religion.

Due to our higher intelligence, we have a higher understanding and capacity for knowledge, love, and reason. On the flipside, we also have a higher capacity for murder, hate, and all around shitty behavior. "Otherizing" other factions just increases the chance to act on the worst impulses of our higher intelligence. It moves us to act. Crusades, Hitler, chattel slavery, Islam terrorism, African genocide during the 1800s and early 1900s, Mongols, etc. all come from the same pit of inhumanity.

Until we work on reducing all 3 of those engines, we're going to see more and more violence.

 

[Snaku]

In retrospect we should have voted for Al Gore.

We did.

 

[ryan-ts]

Wrong thread

 

[Ether_Snake]

Like people have mentioned earlier in the thread. Setting up a backlash against Syrian refugees would help feed into ISIS's radicalization methods.

Far more likely that the guy came from another country and got in by passing off for a Syrian refugee using a fake passport.

 

[King Tubby]

The right wing suggests that France trade hundreds of deaths to terrorism for thousands of deaths to gun violence.

 

[oldboss]

Human piece of shit Donald Trump everyone:

http://time.com/4113333/paris-attacks-donald-trump/

"Donald Trump said Saturday that the terrorists who wreaked havoc in Paris would have spilled less blood if more French citizens carried guns.

“When you look at Paris, toughest gun laws in the world, nobody had guns but the bad guys,” the Republican presidential candidate said during an appearance in Texas, in remarks broadcast by CNN. “Nobody had guns. And they were just shooting them one by one, and then they broke in and had a big shootout and ultimately killed the terrorists.”

At least 129 people died in the attacks, for which ISIS has taken credit.

“And I will tell you what—you can say what you want, if they had guns, if our people had guns, if they were allowed to carry, it would have been a much, much different situation,” Trump added."

How does that brain dead dick even manage to get one foot in front of the other?

 

[Oersted]

So far we have one from France, 3 from Belgium (one of the countries where the goverment reacted the most negatively towards refugees) and 1 potential fake-refugee.

Lets focus on the one potential fake-refugee!

 

[KillGore]

Puerto Rico Capitol Building. Right now.

We have you guys in our thoughts.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

So far we have one from France, 3 from Belgium (one of the countries where the goverment reacted the most negatively towards refugees) and 1 potential fake-refugee.

Lets focus on the one potential fake-refugee!

Is going to be even worse if people focus on the French and 3 Belgians. Because it will give them the idea that European Muslims are more dangerous than refugees and can cause huge uproars towards the Muslims communities that already exist in Europe.

 

[Netherscourge]

Just curious but has the US taken in any refugees yet? I wonder if this will have an effect on that.

Well, every GoP candidate for President is screaming at Obama NOT to take any in and yesterday's event won't help anyone thinking about it win in the next election cycle.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Just turned on fox, thank goodness Shep is doing the coverage and not some agenda rabble rouser.

 

[antonz]

So far we have one from France, 3 from Belgium (one of the countries where the goverment reacted the most negatively towards refugees) and 1 potential fake-refugee.

Lets focus on the one potential fake-refugee!

Potential homegrown terrorists have to be approached and handled in different manners.

If you have people exploiting a refugee crisis then you do in fact have to learn from it and address the concerns especially as that crisis is not over. It is well known how many people are lying to take advantage of the crisis and any number of them could be another Paris style event waiting to happen.

So yes fake potential fake passports etc should be of high concern.

 

[Netherscourge]

How does that brain dead dick even manage to get one foot in front of the other?

Because probably 41% of all US voters support him -or- Carson for President, at the moment. Who knows where Rubio stands or what he stands for. He doesn't really get as much press.

Hillary and Bernie better not slip up these next 10 months or the whole world is fucked.

 

[azyless]

So far we have one from France, 3 from Belgium (one of the countries where the goverment reacted the most negatively towards refugees) and 1 potential fake-refugee.

Lets focus on the one potential fake-refugee!

Again, there hasn't been any kind of details about the arrest of the Belgian guys. Very unlikely they were part of the gunmen.

 

[segasonic]

Human piece of shit Donald Trump everyone:

http://time.com/4113333/paris-attacks-donald-trump/

"Donald Trump said Saturday that the terrorists who wreaked havoc in Paris would have spilled less blood if more French citizens carried guns.

“When you look at Paris, toughest gun laws in the world, nobody had guns but the bad guys,” the Republican presidential candidate said during an appearance in Texas, in remarks broadcast by CNN. “Nobody had guns. And they were just shooting them one by one, and then they broke in and had a big shootout and ultimately killed the terrorists.”

At least 129 people died in the attacks, for which ISIS has taken credit.

“And I will tell you what—you can say what you want, if they had guns, if our people had guns, if they were allowed to carry, it would have been a much, much different situation,” Trump added."

Are Americans allowed to bring guns to a rock concert? I don't think so. Surely you get frisked at the entrance, no?

 

[Sysgen]

How does that brain dead dick even manage to get one foot in front of the other?

He may be brain dead but that isn't a recent tweet.

 

[Kinyou]

How does that brain dead dick even manage to get one foot in front of the other?

I even have hard time imagining people in the USA going to a concert with a gun

 

[XenogearsX]

He may be brain dead but that isn't a recent tweet.

I'm sure he feels the same way be it the Charlie attack or this one

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

He may be brain dead but that isn't a recent tweet.

The quote is from a Texas rally today. People were quoting an old tweet last night, but he said the same things this morning.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Donald Trump is pro gun. He always says that after a mass killing. If the others would have had guns, then the tragedy wouldn't happen. Like more guns is going to solve the issue, cause it won't.

 

[XenogearsX]

Yea if everyone had a gun then there's be no gun attacks, right? Just like in the Middle Ages when everyone had a sword, no one killed each other then right? Because everyone had weapons to defend themselves ...

 

[NetMapel]

Yea if everyone had a gun then there's be no gun attacks, right? Just like in the Middle Ages when everyone had a sword, no one killed each other then right? Because everyone had weapons to defend themselves ...

Thank goodness everybody had guns during the wild wild west period. Those were some of the safest time period in history.

 

[ponpo]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

 

[Ovid]

In retrospect we should have voted for Al Gore. Reading how obvious the signs were of an attack and how GW just ignored that shit. .. I'm convinced 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

I did.

Florida screwed us. Damn you Florida.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

What happens if the cops show up to a shooting and a bunch of people in the building are holding guns?

 

[phatmike128]

Trumps comments lack any sympathy. I just can't comprehend the gun obsessed culture of America, and who would support comments like that. I've met some cool Americans while travelling, but in general myself and other travellers try to avoid them for their arrogant and non-understanding views of how things work elsewhere in the world. Just look at the data, gun control works. It may not work overnight, but if it started now in 2 generations perhaps things will change. Sorry for the rant and if I offend anyone, it just boggles my mind how Trump could have such a following with his insane, unopen and racist views. Or do that many people just want to watch the world burn?

 

[Sysgen]

Yea if everyone had a gun then there's be no gun attacks, right? Just like in the Middle Ages when everyone had a sword, no one killed each other then right? Because everyone had weapons to defend themselves ...

Proper armed security should be provided and if that security means that some should carry guns then so be it. Does not mean that everyone has to have a gun. Events or large gatherings should not be fertile killing fields. These "soft" targets attract these maniacs like fleas to a dog.

 

[Corto]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

There was. Those 3 motherfuckers. An armed person in the audience of a concert is likely to be a psychopath murderer.

 

[segasonic]

Donald Trump is pro gun. He always says that after a mass killing. If the others would have had guns, then the tragedy wouldn't happen. Like more guns is going to solve the issue, cause it won't.

If only the French citizens were allowed to carry Ak47s and handgrenades. The tragedy could have been avoided!

Amidoinitrite?

 

[Netherscourge]

So Trump is suggesting you can compete with terrorists by letting citizens own AK-47s too?Because a handgun ain't much of a match for a military-rated automatic assault rifle.

 

[jerry113]

What happens if the cops show up to a shooting and a bunch of people in the building are holding guns?

Or what happens when vigilante citizens with guns see other vigilante citizens with guns? In the confusion and noise, is it that easy to tell apart enemy from foe? Who the hell are you supposed to shoot? And even if they can tell each other apart, what makes one think friendly fire wouldn't injure or kill people trying to run away in the crossfire? Or does everyone have super aiming abilities?

Or are the terrorists comically wearing obvious terrorist garb like it's all some action movie?

And this is before the cops even show up.

 

[ponpo]

What happens if the cops show up to a shooting and a bunch of people in the building are holding guns?

Not sure, I think concealed carry permit holders try to be as careful about that stuff as possible. I can't think of a news story where someone with a permit used their gun on a suspected criminal and then was shot by the police in confusion.

Anyway again I'm just talking about a hypothetical. Like I said I don't think Trump / "gun nuts" are right saying arming everyone makes everyone safer.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

Because more people with guns in a massively crowded area, in a state of confusion, is always a good idea.

Because everyone properly trained with guns are stone cold motherfuckers right after their training and will never succumb to panic.

 

[D4Danger]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

we have properly trained people with guns. the police.

if guns make you safer explain why there's a monthly mass shooting in America.

it's just impossible to protect everyone all the time. soft targets will always exist.

 

[kirblar]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

A handgun isn't going to do much vs a grenade or automatic weapon.

 

[Fusebox]

Not sure, I think concealed carry permit holders try to be as careful about that stuff as possible. I can't think of a news story where someone with a permit used their gun on a suspected criminal and then was shot by the police in confusion.

Anyway again I'm just talking about a hypothetical. Like I said I don't think Trump / "gun nuts" are right saying arming everyone makes everyone safer.

The last time a conceal carry guy fired his gun in a US cinema he shot himself in the leg.

 

[PdotMichael]

The German have a word for it Gewaltmonopol.

Only the state should have the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory, anything else is just wild west fantasy.

 

[dabig2]

Trump's tweet is dumb but some part of his thinking might be right. Obviously everyone wouldn't be safer if everyone everywhere was armed, but it's not unrealistic to think that the situation may have turned out different if there was someone in the audience with a gun who was properly trained to use it. I doubt the victims felt safer knowing no one around them had a gun to use.

It's missing the big picture. Sure, a well trained armed civilian could have stopped a lot of the bloodshed. But even if they do, the effect of arming everyone and increasing the amount of guns in the populace will lead to more deaths in the country abroad in the short and especially the long runs.