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Paris Terrorist Attacks, 120+ dead. Do not post hearsay/unsourced/old news.

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When Turkey itself is able to have a moment of silence for its own minorities being attacked. What happened to the Kurds in Ankara was tragedy. But unfortunately, Kurds are no strangers to tragedy. And seeing Turkey unable to remember the dead is no surprise. You're asking that people should have a moment of silence for the Kurds killed during the Ankara attack, when Turkey itself is unable to. And now they've yet again disrespected a tragedy by shouting slurs after a terrorist attack. And if there was a moment of solidarity, it sure as hell wouldn't be for Turkey. It would be for the Kurds oppressed in Turkey. I'm also disgusted how you keep referring to the victims as Turks when we're all fully aware they were Kurds.

No I'm asking why solidarity was not shown elsewhere. It's bad Turkey is polarized, but it's even worse seeing the West not give a fuck about tragedies elsewhere.

The dead people in Suruc and Ankara were not only Kurds, there were leftist Turks among them. The fact you didn't know that reaffirms your shallow understanding of Turkey. You're just spouting spins of the Western media propaganda machine against Turkey, they painted the situation in recent months as if there was a civil war between Turks and Kurds, they couldn't be farther from the truth. Most Turks and Kurds live peacefully, a minority of Kurds in the south east are sympathetic towards pkk terrorism. Even there in the south east the majority of the Kurds voted for AKP in the last election. They have enough of pkk terrorism, they want stability. What a blow it was for the Western media constantly putting Turks and Kurds against each other, and then seeing most Kurds vote for a Turk.

And yes Turkish fans shouted Şehitler Ölmez Vatan Bölünmez which means Martyrs are immortal, land is indivisible", it wasn't for your terrorist attacks, it was for the recent pkk terror attacks in which Turkish soldiers died. Bu you wouldn't have known that of course.
 

Klossen

Banned
No I'm asking why solidarity was not shown elsewhere. It's bad Turkey is polarized, but it's even worse seeing the West not give a fuck about tragedies elsewhere.

The dead people in Suruc and Ankara were not only Kurds, there were leftist Turks among them. The fact you didn't know that reaffirms your shallow understanding of Turkey. You're just spouting spins of the Western media propaganda machine against Turkey, they painted the situation in recent months as if there was a civil war between Turks and Kurds, they couldn't be farther from the truth. Most Turks and Kurds live peacefully, a minority of Kurds in the south east are sympathetic towards pkk terrorism. Even there in the south east the majority of the Kurds voted for AKP in the last election. They have enough of pkk terrorism, they want stability. What a blow it was for the Western media constantly putting Turks and Kurds against each other, and then seeing most Kurds vote for a Turk.

And yes Turkish fans shouted Şehitler Ölmez Vatan Bölünmez which means Martyrs are immortal, land is indivisible", it wasn't for your terrorist attacks, it was for the recent pkk terror attacks in which Turkish soldiers died. Bu you wouldn't have known that of course.

Oh wow. Full on offense mode today, eh? The fact that you're defending some assholes shouting slurs at a moment of respect by this inane argument is bullshit. And you were clearly saying Turks when the majority were Kurds. You're purposely using inaccurate phrases to make Turks look like victims in a tragedy that hit a different ethnicity first and foremost.

Tell me, did Turkey have a silent minute for the 200 Russian passengers? Did you have for the attacks in Beirut? Why should Turkey be held to a higher value than those nations? Oh, I know, it's ok that Turkey don't have those moments but everyone else should.

Typical display of Turkish nationalism.You're not even sure what you're mad at anymore. You're just circling, defending some cunts interrupting a sensitive moment.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Is there any source for this or is it hearsay as well ?
Because I remember these lovely people doing the exact same during the minute of silence for the Ankara bombings a month ago, so excuse me if I have some doubts.



Lol.

Yeah, there is no excuse for disrespecting a minute of silence. Being a nationalist is not an excuse for acting like a stupid cunt.
 
Oh wow. Full on offense mode today, eh? The fact that you're defending some assholes shouting slurs at a moment of respect by this inane argument is bullshit. And you were clearly saying Turks when the majority were Kurds. You're purposely using inaccurate phrases to make Turks look like victims in a tragedy that hit a different ethnicity first and foremost.

Tell me, did Turkey have a silent minute for the 200 Russian passengers? Did you have for the attacks in Beirut? Why should Turkey be held to a higher value than those nations? Oh, I know, it's ok that Turkey don't have those moments but everyone else should.

Typical display of Turkish nationalism.You're not even sure what you're mad at anymore. You're just circling, defending some cunts interrupting a sensitive moment.

No I do not make the distinction when I said Turks, Kurds are Turkish citizens too. I guess I should have said "Turkish citizens died" just to avoid your semantics whining, but what does it matter in the end. Your country did not show solidarity for a tragedy in Turkey.

I only speak the truth, the Western media always talks about Turks versus Kurds, headlines read "Turkish Air force strikes Kurds", as if Turkey is striking a group of people rather than a terrorist organization. Again double standards, Alqaeda weren't Arabs, Taliban were not Afghan, IRA were not Irish, ETA was not Basque, but PKK? Kurds!

Your lack of display for solidarity and arrogance at tragedies happening in non-Western, non-White countries is disgusting.
 

Corto

Member
Still no official confirmation of identities, but some news sources are reporting that the woman could be Abdelhamid Abaaoud cousin or his wife.
 

Klossen

Banned
Your lack of display for solidarity and arrogance at tragedies happening in non-Western, non-White countries is disgusting.

So where was the Turkish solidarity for the Russian passengers that died? Or the Beirut attacks? Or any other tragedy outside of Turkey? Does being Turk somehow excuse you from these moments of solidarity? Or is it only bad when the west does it?
 

azyless

Member
Does it make people feel morally superior or something to go on about the "western media" and how "that country has it worse" all the time ? Personally I think it makes you arrogant and self righteous but eh.
I mean, what do you expect really ? For people to grieve constantly ? For tragedies happening in war-torn countries to make front page everywhere ? That would be quite literally every day, you'd get tired too. And it doesn't have anything to do with valuing their lives less, it's just that after a certain point it stops being news and it starts being "normal", as sad as that is. Mass shootings in the US are treated the same here btw, so the argument about islamophobia or the big bad western media...
The biggest terrorist act France has seen since WW2 in the most visited city on Earth though ? Yeah I'd say that's a little exceptional, and it is more likely to draw emotional reactions from the western world.

No I'm asking why solidarity was not shown elsewhere. It's bad Turkey is polarized, but it's even worse seeing the West not give a fuck about tragedies elsewhere.
Should other countries have done a minute of silence ? Maybe, that's a fair question (though it's something that should be asked of Turkey first don't you think). So Turkey's response to not being shown solidarity is to disrespect the deaths that happened in France ? Oh yeah, that sure will show us westerners how worthy you are of respect and solidarity. You could have had a banner or a tifo or whatever, hell, the organizations in charge could have asked for these victims to be mentionned as well, honor your deads without disrespecting others, booing is childish at best.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Disrespecting a minute of silence has no excuse. None whatsoever.

Want to protest about lack of inclusion you can protest outside of that. Or have banners, as somebody else requested.
 

raphier

Banned
Does it make people feel morally superior or something to go on about the "western media" and how "that country has it worse" all the time ? Personally I think it makes you arrogant and self righteous but eh.
I mean, what do you expect really ? For people to grieve constantly ? For tragedies happening in war-torn countries to make front page everywhere ? That would be quite literally every day, you'd get tired too. And it doesn't have anything to do with valuing their lives less, it's just that after a certain point it stops being news and it starts being "normal", as sad as that is. Mass shootings in the US are treated the same here btw, so the argument about islamophobia or the big bad western media...
The biggest terrorist act France has seen since WW2 in the most visited city on Earth though ? Yeah I'd say that's a little exceptional, and it is more likely to draw emotional reactions from the western world.


Should other countries have done a minute of silence ? Maybe, that's a fair question (though it's something that should be asked of Turkey first don't you think). So Turkey's response to not being shown solidarity is to disrespect the deaths that happened in France ? Oh yeah, that sure will show us westerners how worthy you are of respect and solidarity. You could have had a banner or a tifo or whatever, hell, the organizations in charge could have asked for these victims to be mentionned as well, honor your deads without disrespecting others, booing is childish at best.
Turkey is not wartorn. So, when terrorist attacks become a monthly occurence in France we eventually stop showing solidarism?


school shotings get more coverage than turkey, syria combined. I know the death toll of sandy hook, but no idea what's the biggest bad syria has had
 
So where was the Turkish solidarity for the Russian passengers that died? Or the Beirut attacks? Or any other tragedy outside of Turkey? Does being Turk somehow excuse you from these moments of solidarity? Or is it only bad when the west does it?

That's a logical fallacy, "you are the same". And are you seriously asking this? Turkey has to deal with terrorism everyday! They are literally at the front line. How do you expect them to have time for foreign news when all the news they get is security in their own country?

The EU after years finally realized this too, rather than putting pointless fences at their border, they finally realized the security of Turkey is vital for the security of Europe.

If Turkey turns into a war zone, EU will see a tsunami of refugees they have never seen before.
 

Corto

Member
About this discussion of double standards.

Boko Haram killed 32 people yesterday in a bombing attack and there are no Nigerian facebook flag filters too. This problem is global but it should be expected that though international media reports all of this attacks, normal people/readers will relate with what they feel is more connected to them, to their way of life, to their culture. Boko Haram was the most deadly terrorist group in 2014 and they don't get all this prominence that ISIS gets.
 

Oogedei

Member
No I do not make the distinction when I said Turks, Kurds are Turkish citizens too. I guess I should have said "Turkish citizens died" just to avoid your semantics whining, but what does it matter in the end. Your country did not show solidarity for a tragedy in Turkey.

I only speak the truth, the Western media always talks about Turks versus Kurds, headlines read "Turkish Air force strikes Kurds", as if Turkey is striking a group of people rather than a terrorist organization. Again double standards, Alqaeda weren't Arabs, Taliban were not Afghan, IRA were not Irish, ETA was not Basque, but PKK? Kurds!

Your lack of display for solidarity and arrogance at tragedies happening in non-Western, non-White countries is disgusting.

There were quite a few articles and headlines about that in Germany so I don't agree with you. Yeah, the solidarity shown for France is of course bigger, but France is also right around the corner so I get that it is handled differently than the tragendy in Turkey. Furthermore the Turkish government prevents solidarity itself. The media coverage, the planning of solidarity events etc. all of that didn't take place. Leaders like Hollande handle these things differently while leaders like Erdogan don't want anybody to show solidarity with those victims (because of his political agenda)

Also I don't get how this would be a legit way to get some attention for other victims. Showing no respect for innocent victims and hating won't lead to respect for other innocent victims. You can still criticise western media but you don't have to be a dick and boo when people try to respect those victims.

And lastly: Turks are white. It's not a non-white nation.

Sincerely, a Turk.
 

Condom

Member
Disrespecting a minute of silence has no excuse. None whatsoever.

Want to protest about lack of inclusion you can protest outside of that. Or have banners, as somebody else requested.
Yup, just nationalist assholes blaming 'western propaganda' for everything with 0 self reflection
 

Ashes

Banned
I held a minute's silence for those who died in Ankara. And I did the same for those who died in Paris. And I'll do the same for those who died in Nigeria now that I've become aware of it. I'll do this even if nobody else in the entire world mourned what happen on a beach in Tunisia.

I'm Western. I'm English. I'm Muslim. I'm European.
 

Khaz

Member
And lastly: Turks are white. It's not a non-white nation.

Dividing the world in blacks, whites, yellows doesn't make sense. Trying to argue that Turks are white, or brown or whatever colour you want to use is simply stupid. Turks are not white, for the simple fact that "white" isn't part of an accurate description of the human species. Races are nonsense when speaking about humans.

Now let's talk about ethnicities, cultures and the wonderful history of human migrations.
 

raphier

Banned
Disrespecting a minute of silence has no excuse. None whatsoever.

Want to protest about lack of inclusion you can protest outside of that. Or have banners, as somebody else requested.

solidarity is not something you ask. It's something you give. So far nobody cared to give ankara anything worldwide.
 

Bradach

Member
About this discussion of double standards.

Boko Haram killed 32 people yesterday in a bombing attack and there are no Nigerian facebook flag filters too. This problem is global but it should be expected that though international media reports all of this attacks, normal people/readers will relate with what they feel is more connected to them, to their way of life, to their culture. Boko Haram was the most deadly terrorist group in 2014 and they don't get all this prominence that ISIS gets.

I agree. It annoys me people are trying to shame me into feeling as much empathy with the attacks in Beirut and Baghdad. As a fellow European I just don't.
That doesn't mean I don't want the killing of innocent people stopped all over the world.
I'm getting fed up reading all of this nonsense on Facebook
 

azyless

Member
Turkey is not wartorn. So, when terrorist attacks become a monthly occurence in France we eventually stop showing solidarism?
Did I mention Turkey specifically ? And yes I imagine the next time it happens there won't be all those fancy facebook filters and building illuminations. I don't see anything wrong with that.

school shotings get more coverage than turkey, syria combined. I know the death toll of sandy hook, but no idea what's the biggest bad syria has had
Sandy hook was more than 3 years ago. I don't know what media you're reading/watching but the most I ever see about mass shootings is a paragraph in page 3.
 

Ashes

Banned
I agree. It annoys me people are trying to shame me into feeling as much empathy with the attacks in Beirut and Baghdad. As a fellow European I just don't.
That doesn't mean I don't want the killing of innocent people stopped all over the world.
I'm getting fed up reading all of this nonsense on Facebook

Hence people are showing you your hypocrisy. The loss of Muslim lives in Muslim countries just have less of an emotional effect on you.

I don't think that's nonsense.
 

raphier

Banned
Did I mention Turkey specifically ? And yes I imagine the next time it happens there won't be all those fancy facebook filters and building illuminations. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Sandy hook was more than 3 years ago. I don't know what media you're reading/watching but the most I ever see about mass shootings is a paragraph in page 3.

I know Oregon. It happened this year. I still yet to know anything about outside of that. I can find out by looking at the news specifically, but for western tragedy there's reddit frontpage.

I am supposed to feel bad for parisian friends, but nobody gave me solidarity when an airplane was bombed in egypt. That news hit me harder, because it was closer to home. I guess paris was much worse and more shocking, so in the end I can understand.
 

Corto

Member
It's perfectly natural for an European to relate more to a bombing in Paris. To be more affected by it. It's the whole "it could be me" thoughts overwhelming us. Of course a normal, empathetic human being will feel sorry for any attack, any victim, in whatever region of the planet. But if I am European and a major European metropolis is attacked near a football stadium, in a restaurant, in a concert venue, them my internal alarms are all fired up. It could be me. Those victims, could have been me. The pain of their family could be mine. I feel more related to them. That's not hypocrisy. It's human.
 

keuja

Member
That's a logical fallacy, "you are the same". And are you seriously asking this? Turkey has to deal with terrorism everyday! They are literally at the front line. How do you expect them to have time for foreign news when all the news they get is security in their own country?

The EU after years finally realized this too, rather than putting pointless fences at their border, they finally realized the security of Turkey is vital for the security of Europe.

If Turkey turns into a war zone, EU will see a tsunami of refugees they have never seen before.

Oh they don't have time for foreign news? But they complain when the Western countries don't give enough air time (according to them at least) to their tragedy? Fuck those people at the stadium, they are not the only one dealing with terrorism. It's never a reason to disrespect the deaths of innocents. At least we know what People stands beside Europe in these difficut times.
 

Bradach

Member
Hence people are showing you your hypocrisy. The loss of Muslim lives in Muslim countries just have less of an emotional effect on you.

I don't think that's nonsense.

That's what I'm saying. It's true. just because I feel more empathy for France doesn't make me a bad person. I don't want some fools on FB trying to make me feel guilty about it.

Guess what. The people of Beirut care more about the people killed there than the people killed in France. Should they be ashamed of that?
 

Oogedei

Member
Dividing the world in blacks, whites, yellows doesn't make sense. Trying to argue that Turks are white, or brown or whatever colour you want to use is simply stupid. Turks are not white, for the simple fact that "white" isn't part of an accurate description of the human species. Races are nonsense when speaking about humans.

Now let's talk about ethnicities, cultures and the wonderful history of human migrations.

You quoted the wrong guy then because I'm agreeing with you. However it is a wrong statement he made when you argue like that. Turks being white ofc doesn't really paint a correct picture of the racism against them.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Nothing says "respect Country XXX victims" like insulting Country YYY victims. Two wrongs don't make a right.

After reading their intentions, I can't help but wonder if a giant banner saying "In loving memory of the victims of Ankara, Beirut and Paris" wouldn't have been a better approach....
 

Ashes

Banned
That's what I'm saying. It's true. just because I feel more empathy for France doesn't make me a bad person. I don't want some fools on FB trying to make me feel guilty about it.

Guess what. The people of Beirut care more about the people killed there than the people killed in France. Should they be ashamed of that?

I don't think shame is the right word perhaps. We've had a very strange year in the west. With the refugee crisis's effect on our shores directly.

I mean it took one photograph of a child dead on a beach to get the news to actually hit hearts. Everyday people largely ignored it till then.

picture link:
http://static.seattletimes.com/wp-c.../34cdaf5162da4af78cc379da25eb2f07-780x605.jpg

I personally did feel ashamed then.
 
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/opparis-anonymous-takes-5500-isis-twitter-accounts-24- hours/

Anonymous Takes Down 5,500 ISIS Accounts – 24 Hours After ISIS Called them “Idiots”


I'm skeptical about this but if it's true that would be awesome.

Anonymous takes down 5500 ISIS accounts that were allowed to exist for intelligence gathering.
 

Corto

Member
Spanish Police made a warning that Salah Abdeslam (the runaway Paris attacker) could try to cross the border in a Citroen Xsara.
 
After reading their intentions, I can't help but wonder if a giant banner saying "In loving memory of the victims of Ankara, Beirut and Paris" wouldn't have been a better approach....

It would, definitely. Those people were not showing love; they were actively showing hate.

People can respect victims of Ankara or Beirut without having to insult victims of Paris.

Even if someone doesn't make a minute of silence for Ankara and Beirut, it doesn't mean they are disrespecting victims of Ankara and Beirut. Whereas someone who actively interrupts a minute of silence that did happen is unambiguously showing disrespect.
 
Q

Queen of Hunting

Unconfirmed Member
Been a security scare of a object atGare du Nord station

On bbc right now
CUGjmFRWsAIBOS2.jpg
 
Right after the attacks, Germany promised France "all the support" that it needs. But, of course, now that the discussion is about sending German Eurofighters into Syria, the government reacts in a reserved and refusing manner.

Not that I am a supporter of even more war in Syria—I am rather not—, but I wonder why we have an army in the first place if don't even contribute token support in situations like these where Europe calls for unity.
The fact that we didnt readily participate in everything is probably a major contribution in keeping us safe from attacks until now. So I rather prefer it to stay that way tbh, especially when these counter attacks often happen to kill innocent civilians as well. We can surely support France with other means too.
 

chadskin

Member
One eyewitness Christian, 20, gives an account to Le Parisien newspaper. He says: “During a ten or fifteen minute lull in the shooting I heard a woman shouting: ‘Help, help, help me!’ The police asked her to identify herself and to show herself. She showed her hands but she didn’t reveal her face. She withdrew them and then put them up again several times. They shouted at her: ‘Keep your hands in the air!’ They told her: ‘We’re going to shoot.’

“The shooting resumed. The police were firing from the roof of the building opposite. Suddenly there was an enormous explosion [from the window, inside the flat]. It was probably the woman who blew herself up. The windows shattered. Lots of objects from the apartment were thrown into the street, pieces of human flesh as well. They are still there. You can see a bit of the head, of skin, of ribs.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ooms-gunfire-shatter-silence-suburban-morning
 

Alx

Member
Been a security scare of a object atGare du Nord station

On bbc right now
CUGjmFRWsAIBOS2.jpg

Yeah but there will be similar warnings all day long for the foreseeable future, since everybody's on high alert. Anything vaguely suspicious will trigger similar events (there was one at Gare du Nord this morning just after the raid, too).
Even before the state of emergency, it was common to have traffic disturbed because of "left luggage".
 
Talking to folk in my work and they've told me that a mosque in their local town was set on fire, and, get this, a Pakistani owned chippy was raided by neds (or "chavs"/"hooligans") and the entire family beat up, including young girl. Supposed to be a retaliation for the Paris attacks supposedly.

No idea if the second part is true, only have a link for the mosque http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34843552

(Which doesn't say it's a hate-crime, only that it was deliberate)
 
Hence people are showing you your hypocrisy. The loss of Muslim lives in Muslim countries just have less of an emotional effect on you.

I don't think that's nonsense.
Talking from my perspective but don't you think the empathy/solidarity being poured out for France is a result of the shared history of western Europe?

You know western countries have a long history of interaction and cultural cross pollination so they feel more of a bind to each other than to people with whom they share less historical interaction or culture.
 

Ashes

Banned
Even if someone doesn't make a minute of silence for Ankara and Beirut, it doesn't mean they are disrespecting victims of Ankara and Beirut. Whereas someone who actively interrupts a minute of silence that did happen is unambiguously showing disrespect.

Ignoring atrocities is disrespectful though. Like if your child died, and nobody came to the funeral, you'd be sad. But being human, I don't think it will be all that surprising to see you be angry if another child dies at number 9, and everybody in the whole village is mourning the loss.
 

Ashes

Banned
Talking from my perspective but don't you think the empathy/solidarity being poured out for France is a result of the shared history of western Europe?

You know western countries have a long history of interaction and cultural cross pollination so they feel more of a bind to each other than to people with whom they share less historical interaction or culture.

I don't know what the reason is to be honest. I feel for Paris. And I feel for earthquakes in Japan. And for floods in Bangladesh. And for miners stuck in Chile.

I don't think it is entirely an east west phenomenon. Or cultural identity. Because media coverage of Israel - Palestine is usually at the same levels. Israel comes under a lot of pressure when they go on their bombing runs in Palestine. And Palestinian children dying crosses US breakfast news debates etc.
 

azyless

Member
Ignoring atrocities is disrespectful though. Like if your child died, and nobody came to the funeral, you'd be sad. But being human, I don't think it will be all that surprising to see you be angry if another child dies at number 9, and everybody in the whole village is mourning the loss.
I don't think being sad and angry are the same as being disrespected.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Ignoring atrocities is disrespectful though. Like if your child died, and nobody came to the funeral, you'd be sad. But being human, I don't think it will be all that surprising to see you be angry if another child dies at number 9, and everybody in the whole village is mourning the loss.

That still doesn't give you the right to disrupt the other funeral. Especially when you booed at your own child's funeral.
 
Ignoring atrocities is disrespectful though. Like if your child died, and nobody came to the funeral, you'd be sad. But being human, I don't think it will be all that surprising to see you be angry if another child dies at number 9, and everybody in the whole village is mourning the loss.

Being angry if another child dies at number 9 and the whole village is mourning that loss would be human, yeah.

Going to that other child's funeral for the sole purpose of disrupting it and trying to replace the little photo of that child with your own child's photo, however, is being tasteless and out of line.
 
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