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Path of Exile |OT| Loot 3.0

Duuno if anyone can answer this easily, but I'm trying to figure out the interaction between freeze and culling. Just wondering which one happens first if both were to occur in a single hit.

If it's what i think it is (freeze then cull) then i might've found a really cheap way to mf using the American mauls

e/ sorta cheap, getting the right colors is actually turning out to be a pain in the ass
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
What area replaced the Cove in Act 1? I'm only missing one narrative stone in Act 1 and that's the only one that the guide says I'm missing but the new patch changed areas.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Duuno if anyone can answer this easily, but I'm trying to figure out the interaction between freeze and culling. Just wondering which one happens first if both were to occur in a single hit.

If it's what i think it is (freeze then cull) then i might've found a really cheap way to mf using the American mauls

e/ sorta cheap, getting the right colors is actually turning out to be a pain in the ass

After a quick searching, it seems that the damage is dealt first, then culling is checked. So there you go. If it was frozen before cull, you are happy. If not, then it was not frozen in the first place :D
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
What area replaced the Cove in Act 1? I'm only missing one narrative stone in Act 1 and that's the only one that the guide says I'm missing but the new patch changed areas.

Ugh. Googling around, I can't find where they'd move that one so I'm missing 1 in Act 1 and don't want to continue until I found it. I know, stupid and all but still I'm only missing one and that's the one I'm missing. Damn it Grinding Gear at least break down which ones I'm missing and WHERE for the sake of easy to complete. :|
 

KKRT00

Member
Ugh. Googling around, I can't find where they'd move that one so I'm missing 1 in Act 1 and don't want to continue until I found it. I know, stupid and all but still I'm only missing one and that's the one I'm missing. Damn it Grinding Gear at least break down which ones I'm missing and WHERE for the sake of easy to complete. :|

Its The Ship Graveyard. They completely removed Coves, because everyone skipped it.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Its The Ship Graveyard. They completely removed Coves, because everyone skipped it.

I guess I'll recheck there. I didn't see one there when I went through it yesterday.

Edit: Yeah that's not it. I got both of them there. Damn it, where is the one I missed. I swear I got all the ones that were listed in that guide even the starting area, which leaves one of them that I'm missing. Fuuuuuuuck.
 

TheFatOne

Member
I ripped today messing around in a 72 map. Was about to roll a new different character since I have a bunch of currency saved, but realized there is no point. Just feel like I'm beta testing this new 2.0 content. Things I want to be changed won't be changed for a while, and I'm probably going to have to wait for a new league before they start making changes. Don't like the added damage and the removal of defenses. Just makes zero sense. Increased rarity of items that did not need to be increased. There is no way lightning coils should ever be going for 15 exalts no links. Shit is just crazy. Since there are no real options defensively it severely limits the builds I want to run. Realized today what's the point of making an mf character if I can't try cool builds for late game. The damage just seems so out of whack.

I also don't like how GGG does things. Before 2.0 launched there was a giant list of complaints and then when they went live they didn't fix any of the issues that were in the beta. Seriously what's the point of a beat if you are not going to listen to the community. They make content way too hard every time they make new content and then over 6 months they refine it. The last great HC league I had a blast on was nemesis everything since then has been garbage or average. Seriously what's the point of tempest? There are only three useful tempests and they happen rarely. Magic find , corrupting, and 20 exiles. Seriously?

Only three tempests being useful is not enough. The sad thing is those three tempests are actually fun. It's a great blend of risk reward. With corrupted tempests I would play far more aggressive than normal. I would fill the entire screen with mobs then take my chances and dive into the tempests circles. Even when there was an incredible amount of danger. Nearly died many times, but the reward of five or six links is definitely worth it. It's the only tempest that I will play recklessly in because the rewards are awesome. Same for rarity especially when I could get it on a bunch of rares and myself at the same time. Everything else is pretty much garbage with one or two exceptions.

Leagues are half baked. Act IV is half baked. Malachai is a joke. Map drops are a joke. Unique rarity tiers now are a joke. Tempest and Warbands are laughably bad. The single thing keping me playing this game is lockstep, and now that is not enough. This entire launch has felt like one giant beta test. This Act needed several more months. in development. I understand why they rushed it out, but I'm done beta testing this shit. Going to come back when GGG finally makes a great league again.
 

Zynx

Member
Yeah, it feels like GGG's "we want everything to be more challenging" has been taken too far to the extreme.

The thing is, I don't really see things changing quickly because from what I can tell, the game's overall popularity is still rising, probably because new players are jumping in with the Awakening hype and haven't hit the wall of frustration yet, which might lead GGG to think that the direction they're headed in is the right one.

Beyond the shitty grind for the sake of grind (map drops, rarity changes, etc), I really don't like how the retuning of everything has really cut down on the viability of huge swaths of builds. In the past, someone could look at some interesting unique or keystone, then try to build something around it. In Forsaken Masters, I made and played more than a dozen different builds, most of which succeeded to some degree. But now, you have to look at defenses first - if your build can't afford one of a few specific combinations of defenses, you can basically throw it out.
 
I didn't play before Awakening but it seems really off how entire approaches to defensive gearing fall apart once you hit the level 74 maps. I don't dare go into the next tier of map affixes/suffixes right now, I just sell my progression maps and just use my high level character to farm. It's all life and armor gearing or bust past that point in progression, that seems really broken.

I think Tempest just needs more tweaks to the numbers. The concept itself is pretty great.

I expect the developers will continue to tweak and tune lots of things regularly for the next few months.

edit: One more thing , totally agree on some of the uniques being way too rare. Part of it is metagame distortion but some of the items are going for insane prices.
 
I agree it seems like GGG simply didn't take much of the major feedback from the beta. The damage tuning just seems off. TBH Act 4 normal is more challenging than Act 1 & 2 Cruel. Maybe Act 3 as well. I just breezed through Piety with no problems. Won't risk doing Dominus yet...but I know that once I get to Act 4 everything is going to be utterly insane. Granted I'm someone who loves making tanky characters so it's not a huge problem, but from a game development perspective I find it baffling. One of the biggest selling points for this game has always been the amazing build diversity. That's no longer the case, as the ladders show.

I will say this though: overall the game has come a long way and has slowly fixed so many of the problems it once had. Combat feels much better, early game pacing has improved, many of the added gems (especially support gems) have made things more interesting...and most importantly they fixed desync. They're going to fix the 2.0 problems that exist. Alas I have a feeling it won't be coming until 3 months from now with the next big patch/leagues.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I was feeling good going into Merciless Act 4. Cleared a lot of the content easily. One shotted Koam. Died a few times to Daresso because of RNG (evasion tank rip) and poor discipline on my part. I was level ~68 when I reached Belly and decided to grind to 70 on maps.

After I had a few maps under my belt I felt ready to take on Maligaro. I died without even putting up much of a fight and couldn't see how to do so so I decided to go back to maps.

Forever.
 

Rufus

Member
I didn't play before Awakening but it seems really off how entire approaches to defensive gearing fall apart once you hit the level 74 maps. I don't dare go into the next tier of map affixes/suffixes right now, I just sell my progression maps and just use my high level character to farm. It's all life and armor gearing or bust past that point in progression, that seems really broken.

[...]

edit: One more thing , totally agree on some of the uniques being way too rare. Part of it is metagame distortion but some of the items are going for insane prices.
They have nerfed a lot of defensive solutions that were very popular, bit by bit. What this means right now is that incoming damage cannot be mitigated with "easy" unique item + keystone combinations any longer, which I would argue masked these problems before and would continue to mask them now. So any imbalances in incoming damage are much more keenly felt. Now GGG has to re-tune damage spikes that much faster, which for the boss fights at least they have done.

To further put into context why we are at this point right now::
- Raw life is always important because elemental damage cannot be avoided except through spell block or spell dodge, which can only be obtained in modest amounts. So whatever you do, you have to stack some form of HP.
- Armour has diminishing returns, the bigger the hit, the less it mitigates.
- GGG wants big and slow physical hits like Brutus, Vaal and now Malachai slams to remain in the game.
- GGG hates "one and done" solutions, across the board. If something looks like the default way to deal with a gap in your build, its days are numbered.

---

And because I am a sad individual, a brief overview of some popular defense strategies:

Armour + [Iron Reflexes + Grace] + Life + Kaom's Heart was the old and faithful combo. Stack armour, stack life. Classic Path of Life Nodes. IR, Grace and Kaom's were all eventually nerfed one way or another. Kaom's is still very valuable for certain builds, IR and Grace a lot less so. Somewhere along the lines, they nerfed life nodes themselves, only to slowly walk that back, because obviously.

Chaos Innoculation. Simply stack as much ES as you can, fuck mitigation. 10k+ ES made up for CI's shortcomings, i.e. greater vulnerability to status ailments, particularly shock. Leech (now also massively nerfed) + Ghost Reaver made melee CI a thing for a bit, even though the downsides to CI favour ranged.
ES amounts on gear were eventually nerfed, possibly ES on the tree as well, don't remember. Emerging alternatives made it look a lot less attractive.

Evasion + Life + Acrobatics [+ Phase Acrobatics] got more popular for a bit after Evasion was tuned, or rather monster accuracy. Then the keystones were (slightly?) nerfed. Remains intact for the most part, but for many people it is still too risky for HC. Evasion isn't completely random, but all it takes is for one big hit to get through. There are ways to make it safer for HC (enfeeble and blind, i.e. lowering mob accuracy further, and/or block), but people don't like to compromise their damage too much, because that would compromise clear speed, yadda yadda.

Life + Cloak of Defiance/Mind over Matter + Eldritch Battery + Arctic Armour, i.e. the perfect storm of synergies. Amazing for casters and possibly put a fork in CI and even ES outside of low-level Shavronne's builds. Very OP. Cloak provided easier access to Mind over Matter (30% of incoming damage taken to mana). Arctic Armour mitigated incoming physical damage and fire damage by a flat amount, at the cost of a constant and very high mana drain. EB provided a huge mana pool and subsequently high mana regen. The pieces of the puzzle here fit together perfectly, hence it became a no-brainer for many, many builds.
Cloak was nerfed even before last league. Its MoM used to be better than the one on the tree by 10%, but since we still had to travel to the bottom of the tree to grab MoM the nerf was insignificant. MoM is now right next to the Witch tree. EB was reworked so now ES doesn't add to mana 1:1, the ES mechanic is simply moved from the life pool over to the mana pool. Artic Armour now works more like an aura and only provides its damage reduction (% phys and fire) while you're standing still. Still great for some builds. This synergy however was completely torn to pieces. Fun while it lasted.

Current reigning champion: Life + Armour/Evasion + Lightning Coil, because it's simply a reliable form of damage reduction, no diminishing returns. Phys damage can shock, but high life mitigates that, which you will want to stack regardless. Purity of Lightning handily fills the lightning resist gap and at higher levels provides +max lightning resist, so there are no real downsides to using it. Except for getting blue sockets on the thing maybe.
So far they've only made it rarer, but I wouldn't be surprised if the item itself was somehow further nerfed. It used to provide 40% mitigation, now it's 'only' 30%.

Supplementals to any of the above:
Max (Spell)Block was extremely strong, especially with Aegis Aurora, but then block was nerfed. It's much more difficult to reach max block now, but it is still a good supplementary defense, if completely random (unlike Evasion). Aegis Aurora is still very good.

CWDT + Enduring Cry + Immortal Call [+ Increased Duration]. Take minimal damage, get endurance charges, immediately expend endurance charges for a few seconds of immunity from physical damage. Automatically. This was around since CWDT was introduced and something practically everyone benefitted from, at the cost of a 3- or 4-link.
Enduring Cry was changed from a spell to a warcry so CWDT couldn't proc it any more, forcing people to self-cast Enduring Cry again. Immortal Call's duration was reduced.
 

Cerity

Member
According to steam I've spent 180~ hrs, on top of that I've probably played around 40-50 hours before it made it to steam. I've only just realised that there is a (optional) questline in the library/archives.

It does pay to explore lol.
 
Endurance Charge On Melee Stun is pretty damn good, defense wise. Most bosses have enough mobs that you can still get away with using it despite not being able to stun bosses.

BTW Chris will be on State Of Exile podcast in a little less than two hours.
 

Zynx

Member
My additional take on why various defensive strategies don't work anymore:
Chaos Innoculation or Low-life (anything energy shield based) - very hard to make work with the leech changes and the fact that we have new bosses that have phases that hardly spawn any adds
Life + Evasion/Acrobatics - high level areas have really strong physical hits now that evasion is insufficient to protect against. The Ondar's Guile keystone was recently nerfed in function so much that its name was changed and is no longer worth using. Evasion might work with lightning coil though, like you said, but that's now super rare.
Life + Eldritch Battery/Cloak of Defiance - RIP with changes to EB. The only primary reason to use EB now is to use it to power skill costs, although if you're using it for that reason there's no harm in using Mind over Matter with it. But otherwise, if you're simply using ES to protect life, why take EB at all?

I also think that surgeon's flasks advantage to crit builds is even more significant than before with the nerf to leech and the new bosses with phases without adds, since with surgeon's flasks you can reliable get charges in combat.

I'm actually also looking at more esoteric ways to sustain life like using necromantic aegis + maligaro's lens, kingsguard with discharge, and other stuff along those lines.

@Cerity With the new gem vendor system I don't even do any of the sidequests anymore except for the ones that grant passive points. Except for one medicine chest quest for a quicksilver flask at the start of a new league.
 

Rufus

Member
More stuff
Interesting post on Reddit with some statistics on what types of chest armour people use (pulled from the top 1000 public profiles):
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3eqck6/discussionhc_body_armour_usage_analysis/

Rares:
Armour reigns supreme, followed by ES (casters have to wear something, I suppose), followed by pure evasion and hybrids. Evasion/ES in last place (as always?).

Uniques:
Lightning Coil on top, because of course.
Infernal Mantle in second place, formerly "Troll Mantle" because it shared a base with Shavronne's Wrappings. Now popular for full fire to chaos damage conversion in conjunction with The Consuming Dark, making fire spells safe against reflect.
Belly of the Beast in third place, because 30-40% increased life.

Cloak of Defiance is dead now that MoM is much easier to get on the tree.
Daresso's Defiance (Endurance Charge on kill) is now worth using since the old CWDT setup was killed.
Hyrri's Ire isn't vendor trash any more, because it now has 10% dodge and spell dodge, which stacks with Acrobatics and Phase Acrobatics.
Cloak of Flame, for 20% incoming phys damage taken as fire damage. Often overlooked.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
How do you veterans go about making money on a new league (Warband)? I'm running maps these days and making the most of the 60-74 2x Chaos recipe, but I feel like it's kind of slow.

Part of the reason is because I'm not really sure how to evaluate gear, whether it's good or not. And part of the reason is I'm too lazy to play market PvP with a system as clunky as PoE's (I do use poe.trade, but only for purchases).

I get the feeling I'm missing out on some good sellers by vendoring all my rare unid rings and amulets and belts, which seem to be the most likely to sell well with decent defensive rolls. Does anyone have some tips on which things I should be keeping an eye out for and what I can toss to vendors?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
How long is Tempest going to be active? Someone reached level 100 yesterday, how long has this league been going on for?
 

Rufus

Member
How long is Tempest going to be active? Someone reached level 100 yesterday, how long has this league been going on for?
Three months, I believe.

That must have been the fastest 100 yet. Etup himself was surprised by it. Around 10 days playtime.
Incidentally, he reached level 100 before he leveld his Zana to level 7 (was just shy of 7). He talked to one of the devs and they (perhaps jokingly) said that they would have to nerf late game XP, rather than re-adjust master leveling.
 

Kammie

Member
That must have been the fastest 100 yet. Etup himself was surprised by it. Around 10 days playtime.
Incidentally, he reached level 100 before he leveld his Zana to level 7 (was just shy of 7). He talked to one of the devs and they (perhaps jokingly) said that they would have to nerf late game XP, rather than re-adjust master leveling.
Four months minimum.

Etup spent an insane amount of time playing, he was doing about 14 hours daily. Every map was chaosed to 100+ quant, he used 3 sacrifice fragments on each one, and threw a Zana mod on top (onslaught or domination).

I watched the stream almost all day yesterday. Basically people just poured into his hideout and gave him money for master crafting or to buy low level maps. This is not what a normal player will EVER experience in this game, not by a long shot.
 
finally lost my summoner today to a perpetus boss on ghetto , I went from 5k es 4k life to zero instantly. He was enfeebled and killed me before i could even granite. No real damage mods, was just a blue 70 map and I have been clearing 73s-74s w/o issue.

Shouldn't have even set foot in the map but didn't figure the boss was that hard of a counter to non-armor builds.

edit: I knew something like this was going to happen , it's the fate of any non life/armor stack build right now. Summoner had nothing of real value on her. Have a Maraduer on Merc as a back up already, doing 1h+shield ice crash.
 

Mulgrok

Member
finally lost my summoner today to a perpetus boss on ghetto , I went from 5k es 4k life to zero instantly. He was enfeebled and killed me before i could even granite. No real damage mods, was just a blue 70 map and I have been clearing 73s-74s w/o issue.

Shouldn't have even set foot in the map but didn't figure the boss was that hard of a counter to non-armor builds.

edit: I knew something like this was going to happen , it's the fate of any non life/armor stack build right now. Summoner had nothing of real value on her. Have a Maraduer on Merc as a back up already, doing 1h+shield ice crash.

My level 83 summoner in standard only has 1400 hp 1500 es..... I can't find any gear worth using :(
 

Cerity

Member
How do you veterans go about making money on a new league (Warband)? I'm running maps these days and making the most of the 60-74 2x Chaos recipe, but I feel like it's kind of slow.

Part of the reason is because I'm not really sure how to evaluate gear, whether it's good or not. And part of the reason is I'm too lazy to play market PvP with a system as clunky as PoE's (I do use poe.trade, but only for purchases).

I get the feeling I'm missing out on some good sellers by vendoring all my rare unid rings and amulets and belts, which seem to be the most likely to sell well with decent defensive rolls. Does anyone have some tips on which things I should be keeping an eye out for and what I can toss to vendors?

Look up some other popular builds and see what they focus on.

5L/6L stuff is an obvious one but outside of that, stuff with tri-resists, high item rarity/quantity (is quantity still a thing?) and a few other modifiers like spell damage and attack speed. Look up the possible roll ranges for each modifier on that equip and go from there.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Started a HC Ranger... 13 points to spend. Any builds out there that is easy to combine with a cheap build? I want to shoot arrows and survive shit.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah... no idea what to do on my talent tree. Every build online is out of date. Still level 1 basically and almost done with act 2.

24 talents points to use ._.
 

Rufus

Member
See the above. Poison Arrow is strong. Watch twitch.tv/havoc616 to see what it plays like. He probably has a build guide too.

This is not what a normal player will EVER experience in this game, not by a long shot.
Streamer advantage is a given, but even then it was much faster than usual.

edit: I knew something like this was going to happen , it's the fate of any non life/armor stack build right now. Summoner had nothing of real value on her. Have a Maraduer on Merc as a back up already, doing 1h+shield ice crash.
Doing the same thing, but as Templar. Still stuck in Cruel, though not for much longer. It's a little slow, but I haven't invested more than 3c for my weapon.

I'm itching to do a Ball Lightning build with freeze and temp chains for defense, but I might not even reach 82...
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
He's a scion and I'm a ranger. I guess I fucked up lol
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Well, the greed and the incompetency got me. Normally I'd waste my face by punching it repeatedly but whatever, I knew this was coming.

RxC5R0f.jpg
 
What's the general end-game progression path for this game? Should I be looking to start farming maps asap, or is farming in Merciless equally valuable?
 

Morokh

Member
Made it to Merciless for the first time in a Hardcore temp league ! Yay !



..... and died to a lockbox in docks .... xD

Time to play a bit of warbands to work on those challenges !
 
I think the lockboxes are even rippier now, I always get this terrible spike of lag when I hit one, to the point where I hover over alt-F4 any time I trigger one open.

granite flask and another flask w/ curse immune and an movement spell are really necessary for safe lockbox operation, along with a corpse clearer gem at least in your hideout stash in case it is a DD box.
 
Playing dual-flame totem is tough. My Vorici is still level 1.

I keep killing:
- The target (and not just his guards)
- The target (which microsecond is he at low life?)
- The hostage

I operate on the opposite level of precision
 

Mulgrok

Member
Playing dual-flame totem is tough. My Vorici is still level 1.

I keep killing:
- The target (and not just his guards)
- The target (which microsecond is he at low life?)
- The hostage

I operate on the opposite level of precision

Trying to do those quests as a summoner is like herding cats.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Playing dual-flame totem is tough. My Vorici is still level 1.

I keep killing:
- The target (and not just his guards)
- The target (which microsecond is he at low life?)
- The hostage

I operate on the opposite level of precision
Since you are running dual flame totems you have the str requirements for decoy totems. Just use decoy totems to kite. It's a pain because sometimes it takes a while, but that's the only way I managed to do them at early levels. Also remember to do dailys for masters with a group. Way faster leveling that way. Can get masters to lvl 6-7 quite easily like this.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I think freeze immune flask plus some teleport is all you really need for strongboxes.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
So I re-created my HC ranger. Found a legendary bow and it's carrying me. In act 3 now and just noticed there's an act 4.

Holy shit LTTP HYPE!
 
Beat Dominus on Cruel with my Ice Crash Marauder. It took significantly longer than it did on normal but overall I didn't have any major close calls. Once you get to the second stage of the fight it's pretty much a cake walk.

Did a bit of Act IV Cruel and can already feel the difference. A couple rare monsters did pretty decent damage to me, but the bigger surprise was Voll. He trucked me a few times for lots of health. Took him out but I doubt I'll be able to farm him anytime soon. Seems like it might be time to sell some of the unique items I've been hoarding and buy better gear. I'm in that awkward position where I have some gear that definitely needs to be upgraded but I've held off due to how hard it is to find 4 links; I got a 4 link pair of gloves back in Act II and haven't found anything better with a similar amount of links.
 

Rufus

Member
It pains me every time I do it, but I just spend the currency to roll my own stuff in cruel. Chest armours specifically, but I'll dump jewellers and fuses on other stuff as well. I could be buying great stuff for one or two chaos, but I'm too lazy to shop.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
It pains me every time I do it, but I just spend the currency to roll my own stuff in cruel. Chest armours specifically, but I'll dump jewellers and fuses on other stuff as well. I could be buying great stuff for one or two chaos, but I'm too lazy to shop.

Same. I wasted 3 chaos crafting an amulet recently. The end result was pretty good but I should have saved instead...

I hope they come up with a more intuitive trading system because lord knows I'm too lazy to use Procurement, and while I like the barter/bargain system of haggling prices in game...often times I don't feel like doing that.

My solution would be to add a merchant master to the game, which you could level up in order to add a shop to your hideout. Players could search through some type of in-game bulletin board for shops to visit, plus you could advertise your shop in chat.

(The merchant master could also add MF to gear) :p
 
I made a marauder in tempest but the thought of act iv in cruel/merciless has me scared shitless lol


I understand the feeling.
I have a Scion cyclone in tempest league and just beat Malachai on normal.
Have absolutely no idea how i'm going to beat him on cruel.
Hell, i'm scared of everything in act IV lol
 
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