Support NeoGAF

[antigoon]

He was talking about discrimination on a macro level, which absolutely exists, and yes it's the amalgamation of interactions between individuals on the micro level, but unless you're going to outright call Jeff and crew a bunch of bigots, I don't see how you could say it has any bearing on discussing who Giant Bomb decides to hire.

But the post that he and I quoted - this mentality of "well just hire the most qualified person" (as if hiring happens in a pure-meritocracy-vacuum separate from the rest of society) has contributed to hiring inequalities.

For Giant Bomb specifically, I'm not calling Jeff or anyone a bigot for their hiring choices. I would just really like to see them add a female/poc perspective as I think it would enrich their content.

 

[Messofanego]

Cara Ellison would be brilliant but too bad she loves being a nomad to settle in one place

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Remember when they hired for on-air personality experience with Drew




Wait, no, he folded t-shirts then became a video producer and then became a normal personality because people liked him, it's weird how they didn't hire someone specifically because of how "blokey" they are and the world didn't crumble

 

[Lothars]

Why does there continue to be great gender inequality in the tech workplace?

It's because the people that don't visit giant bomb and don't care about the site bitch about them not hiring a woman.

I want them to hire whoever is best for the job. Man or Woman I don't care.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Remember when they hired for on-air personality experience with Drew




Wait, no, he folded t-shirts then became a video producer and then became a normal personality because people liked him, it's weird how they didn't hire someone specifically because of how "blokey" they are and the world didn't crumble

Yeah, he worked his way into his position. What's your point? It's unlikely they would have hired Drew back then for the position he holds now.

 

[antigoon]

It's because the people that don't visit giant bomb and don't care about the site bitch about them not hiring a woman.

 

[Seventy70]

I don't give a shit who they hire or what their demographics are as long as they fit well with the rest of the group, and I trust that they'll do so as they always have so far.

In my view saying they have to/should hire a man or woman specifically are two equally inane statements.

Exactly. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding this. Also, if a man or a woman were hired what difference does it make? A person is a person.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah, he worked his way into his position. What's your point?

For you? Nothing.

 

[Mushroomer25]

One thing I will say regarding the discrimination arguement -

I think there's little doubt that Dan was hired for his personality. He's been friendly with the guys for a long time, already made a impression on Giant Bomb content, and just fit the hole that Vinny left.

Patrick's a different case. He's never really been a strong personality, instead getting by on knowledge & skill at articulating his opinions. Since he's been running solo for an entire year, the space he's leaving is a bit more undefined. Giant Bomb needs a news writer, who can hold their own on camera. That's a much more open role than the one Dan filled.

Does GB NEED to hire a woman? No, but I think it'd be a great move. Above all, they should be prioritizing skill - as well as expanding the range of viewpoints that the site represents. Whoever they choose, I'm sure they'll be a great addition to the team. But I hope they're looking at the longer term future of Giant Bomb (especially with the NYC office), and are building a team that resonates with the target audience. It's not as simple as "x person is the most qualified". You have to consider the benefit that a more diverse staff might bring to the entire team.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

For you? Nothing.

Yeah, I'm sure. Way to take things personally for no good reason at all. Great way to look reasonable.

 

[eyeless]

Hey I am just being honest about how I feel.

Secondly your need to insult says a lot about you.

I have engaged with those who have quited me and explained how I felt.

If that brings out the need for you to insult me then that's up to you.



I will not contribute to any further derailment or get drawn into a series of insulting posts going back and forward.

you contributed nothing but tired unequivocally sexist viewpoints, but well done on your honesty tho. usually boring sexist opinions from dudes on video game forums aren't.. honest?

wasn't a personal attack, just a comment on your played out opinion that women can't.. i don't know, make humorous comments while playing or watching video game footage?

what is worth engaging with there. there isn't even a need for "this theoretical woman" as you put it, mary from gamespot has been great with giant bomb, reminded me of vinny on the extra life stream

if they had've hired her instead of dan (who is great), she would be just as good. it wouldn't have been for a "quota" although the internet would be filled with "honest" opinions like yours that it was, and that shit is insulting.

the tired opinion that they would be hiring a white dude because he's qualified but were they to hire a woman/minority that wouldn't be the case is..

eh, whatever, bye

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah, I'm sure. Way to take things personally for no good reason at all. Great way to look reasonable.

It's like you keep repeating, you have to consider your audience.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Settle down children.

 

[Jintor]

Patrick's a different case. He's never really been a strong personality, instead getting by on knowledge & skill at articulating his opinions.

I don't know if I agree with this entirely. Certainly I don't know if he was hired primarily for his personality the way Dan appears to have been, but Patrick's personality comes through pretty strong most of the time.

 

[The Big Rig]

Cheers, Patrick. Thanks for all the good times!

 

[BanGy.nz]

I've been following Patricks work since his 1up days days, can't wait to see where you end up.

 

[Lothars]

....

There's tons of proof regarding it, just look at twitter back when it happened.

Some of the biggest critics were bitching about it and saying that they never applied but they should have hired a women.

So posting that image as a response that really shows how you have very little proof.

Edit: I am going to miss patrick and think he was a fantastic fit for the site. I hope he will go somewhere good.

 

[antigoon]

There's tons of proof regarding it, just look at twitter back when it happened.

Some of the biggest critics were bitching about it and saying that they never applied but they should have hired a women.

So posting that image as a response that really shows how you have no argument.

pretty sure your assertion that the reason gender inequality in tech exists because people who don't frequent a specific website complained about their hiring of a white guy doesn't deserve more than a stupid .gif response, but OK.

 

[SteveWinwood]

is mary kish the best or not

the answer is yes she is the best

 

[Mushroomer25]

I don't know if I agree with this entirely. Certainly I don't know if he was hired primarily for his personality the way Dan appears to have been, but Patrick's personality comes through pretty strong most of the time.

I'm using personality more as a stand-in for "comedic ability/entertainment value". Dan's very skilled at what he does, but I feel like he was specifically brought on because he's made Giant Bomb a more entertaining place. Patrick's never been that, in my perspective. He's got personality for sure, and makes a fantastic host-type in Bombin' - but his strength is the news beat. That's what GBEAST should be looking to replace.

 

[Lothars]

pretty sure your assertion that the reason gender inequality in tech exists because people who don't frequent a specific website complained about their hiring of a white guy doesn't deserve more than a stupid .gif response, but OK.

Okay, my point wasn't talking about the whole tech market, I am specifically talking about giant bomb.

Your correct that there is a big issue with the gender inequality about the tech industry

 

[bearythebear]

There doesn't seem to be any indication that they're actively looking/hiring someone at this point. Seems like a 6 months down the line thing. I do think that NY is lacking right now. As great as Alex/Vinny is, they need another person.

 

[Corgi]

Actually read this... come on Klepek... capitalize those 'i''s when you are trying to get hired... for a writing position

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You don't have to be a woman to enjoy additional perspectives. Danielle's inclusion in the previous all-boys club at idle thumbs was a stroke of genius, she's awesome.

I have a hard time relating with the idea that this kind of praise is acceptable. To me, it reads like you're praising her inclusion to Idle Thumbs because she's a woman. I doubt that was your intent, but that's how it reads to me.

Danielle Riendeau is awesome because she's a cool person that has insightful and often funny things to say. She's currently my favorite Thumb, but I don't think any of it really has to do with her being a woman, just like I don't think folks like Nick Breckon and Steve Gaynor were great members of the cast because they were white guys.

Actually read this... come on Klepek... capitalize those 'i''s when you are trying to get hired... for a writing position

It seems like a pretty intentional style choice. He doesn't capitalize anything in his emails, but still uses proper grammar.

 

[Portugeezer]

It seems like a pretty intentional style choice. He doesn't capitalize anything in his emails, but still uses proper grammar.

Yep. Looks more casual.

 

[Tagyhag]

I really don't care about the gender of the next hire, what matters to me is that they're competent and funny.

If it has to be a woman, it should be Mary, she's fantastic.

 

[Delt31]

first off - sad to see Patrick go. Great contributor. Second - where do you think he's going and do you think it was his choice or not?

Third - the announcement was rather low energy. Guy worked for 4 plus years and it's barely mentioned....

 

[antigoon]

I have a hard time relating with the idea that this kind of praise is acceptable. To me, it reads like you're praising her inclusion to Idle Thumbs because she's a woman. I doubt that was your intent, but that's how it reads to me.

Danielle Riendeau is awesome because she's a cool person that has insightful and often funny things to say. She's currently my favorite Thumb, but I don't think any of it really has to do with her being a woman, just like I don't think folks like Nick Breckon and Steve Gaynor were great members of the cast because they were white guys.

Her viewpoints and perspectives on things due to her status as a queer woman have certainly made Idle Thumbs more interesting to me.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Third - the announcement was rather low energy. Guy worked for 4 plus years and it's barely mentioned....

I think they were completely drained of energy after all of the arguing. It felt a little abrupt, but who can blame them.

 

[Bacon]

Man I'm glad I learned about this before I heard it on the podcast. They phrased his leaving really weird and didn't really explain what was happening all that well. Had I heard that first I wouldn't have known what the hell they were talking about lol.

 

[Bsigg12]

I really don't care about the gender of the next hire, what matters to me is that they're competent and funny.

If it has to be a woman, it should be Mary, she's fantastic.

I don't think Mary would leave GameSpot. I still think it should be a GB East hire so they could have 2 podcasts rolling now that Bombin in the AM is over.

 

[Will]

I'll miss Patrick. I have been a Giant Bomb fan since day one, and I thought it was cool that he did so many things no one else on the site did. He broke stories from time to time, did human interest pieces, covered indie and horror games in a way nobody else on the site did, made special efforts to feature and highlight minority creators and their stories. You didn't have to like everything he did, but he made the site feel a lot wider in scope. I think he also deserves credit for being the one guy to leave the west coast that still managed to feel like a significant part of the site. That is partly unfair to Alex and Vinny because they still haven't been able to settle down yet, but between Bombin' In The AM, Spookin', his weekly column, and all the stuff he did with his Chicago crew, he managed to churn out a steady stream of content away from the crew.

Do I think the site is missing female and minority voices? Sure, because I think they could add interesting perspectives to the mix. I don't think there should be a quota or that should be someone's sole qualification, but it's something that could make the site more interesting. There's also a of voices and perspectives that Giant Bomb are missing that have nothing to do with gender or race. People criticize Giant Bomb for being too homogeneous but I cut them a lot of slack. They're a site with a fairly small staff that is pretty spread out, you're going to have cultural blind spots no matter how you hire.

To me, I would have two major qualifications for a new hire, and they have nothing to do with race or gender:

1. They should be high energy. Dan has been a good jolt for the site in a lot of ways, but he is also a guy that can kind of fade into the background if it's not a subject he has a good background on. I love him and Drew, but a lot of times on the podcast, there will be long portions where the two of them barely speak and the show just becomes a conversation between Jeff and Brad. They need another person who's pretty opinionated and will talk about every subject. They lost a guy like that when Ryan passed, and they lost a second guy like that when Patrick moved. They need one more big mouth in the mix.

2. They need someone that does things they don't do, yet still fits in with the site. As I mentioned before, Patrick created a ton of stuff that no one else on the site would have. A new person doesn't need to try and do the things that Patrick did, but I think they should look for someone that isn't just an extra voice on podcasts and quick looks.

 

[Bio]

It's not as simple as "x person is the most qualified". You have to consider the benefit that a more diverse staff might bring to the entire team.

I tend to disagree. Diversity is great, but I'm no fan of forced diversity. If one person will do a better job than the other, I think they should be given fair consideration, no matter if they meet some diversity quota or not...

That said I wouldn't really care too much if Giant Bomb DID decide they wanted a different viewpoint, but where I get annoyed is if they hire someone they think right for the job and then people rally against them for not picking x minority/sex whatever. It's not fair to this group of great guys IMO. The reaction after they picked Dan was a bit sickening and just made me sad.

 

[Xyrmellon]

Well I hadn't looked at this thread since early this afternoon, and just as I expected, its degenerated into hostilities around new hire expectations. Lighten up, people. Im sure Jeff is thrilled he's going to have to deal with all this shit again, too.

Good luck Patrick. Sorry to see you go.

 

[Volotaire]

I'll miss Patrick. I have been a Giant Bomb fan since day one, and I thought it was cool that he did so many things no one else on the site did. He broke stories from time to time, did human interest pieces, covered indie and horror games in a way nobody else on the site did, made special efforts to feature and highlight minority creators and their stories. You didn't have to like everything he did, but he made the site feel a lot wider in scope. I think he also deserves credit for being the one guy to leave the west coast that still managed to feel like a significant part of the site. That is partly unfair to Alex and Vinny because they still haven't been able to settle down yet, but between Bombin' In The AM, Spookin', his weekly column, and all the stuff he did with his Chicago crew, he managed to churn out a steady stream of content away from the crew.

Do I think the site is missing female and minority voices? Sure, because I think they could add interesting perspectives to the mix. I don't think there should be a quota or that should be someone's sole qualification, but it's something that could make the site more interesting. There's also a of voices and perspectives that Giant Bomb are missing that have nothing to do with gender or race. People criticize Giant Bomb for being too homogeneous but I cut them a lot of slack. They're a site with a fairly small staff that is pretty spread out, you're going to have cultural blind spots no matter how you hire.

To me, I would have two major qualifications for a new hire, and they have nothing to do with race or gender:

1. They should be high energy. Dan has been a good jolt for the site in a lot of ways, but he is also a guy that can kind of fade into the background if it's not a subject he has a good background on. I love him and Drew, but a lot of times on the podcast, there will be long portions where the two of them barely speak and the show just becomes a conversation between Jeff and Brad. They need another guy who's pretty opinionated and will talk about every subject. They lost a guy like that when Ryan passed, and they lost a second guy like that when Patrick moved. They need one more big mouth in the mix.

2. They need someone that does things they don't do, yet still fits in with the site. As I mentioned before, Patrick created a ton of stuff that no one else on the site would have. A new person doesn't need to try and do the things that Patrick did, but I think they should look for someone that isn't just an extra voice on podcasts and quick looks.

The problem with number one is that the new hire is for GBeast in NY. With number 2, I am quite interested in the 'Japanese optional requirement'. If this means a greater exposure of Japanese media and games into GB, I would be up for it. I loved the idea of GB visiting Iceland and the UK to visit foreign game studios, so I think this is what the posting may pertain to. Moreover, I think with the capital they have at CBSi in NY, GBeast have an incredible amount of potential content they could tap into with the various outlets and other journalists.

 

[Tainted]

Patrick has been one of my favourite bombers over the past few years. The amount of indie and obscure games he has brought to my attention as well as following his 'lets play' series (Glad he wont stop doing these on his channel though) has been totally awesome

I had a feeling with him moving back to Chicago and being isolated from the rest of the crew may have spelt the end of his tenure though....but GB has grew into the site it has today due to his contributions

Best of luck Scoops !

 

[Tripon]

What in the hell happened to this thread?

 

[Superflat]

Fuck. Patrick was my favorite GB member for a long time now. He's always been a big part of most of my favorite GB segments. He would check out games and add a perspective no one else would in depth. A huge loss, but I'll follow his work anywhere.

This is gonna be hard to get over :[

 

[GavinGT]

Alex and Vinny should hire that guy they met in the storage closet.

 

[newsguy]

Best of luck to you Patrick. I swear, listening to the bombcast is going to help me deal better with loss. You hear these guys each and every day, you feel like you get to know a part of them, and then they're gone.

 

[Volotaire]

Alex and Vinny should hire that guy they met in the storage closet.

What you don't like this guy !?

?

 

[Vitor711]

I tend to disagree. Diversity is great, but I'm no fan of forced diversity. If one person will do a better job than the other, I think they should be given fair consideration, no matter if they meet some diversity quota or not...

That said I wouldn't really care too much if Giant Bomb DID decide they wanted a different viewpoint, but where I get annoyed is if they hire someone they think right for the job and then people rally against them for not picking x minority/sex whatever. It's not fair to this group of great guys IMO. The reaction after they picked Dan was a bit sickening and just made me sad.

My main issue with Dan is that he's too much like Jeff. My favourite addition to the crew was more regular appearances from Drew because, while he has some taste overlap with Vinny, he talks about stuff that the rest of the team likely wouldn't cover. It's why Patrick was a good fit (visual novels/horror).

Hoping they find someone with differing interests as it always leads to better discussion.

 

[Dragon]

I don't think Mary would leave GameSpot. I still think it should be a GB East hire so they could have 2 podcasts rolling now that Bombin in the AM is over.

Someone like Jason Schreier would work very well here, considering he already lives in New York I believe. And he would fill that niche pretty well.

 

[Mushroomer25]

I tend to disagree. Diversity is great, but I'm no fan of forced diversity. If one person will do a better job than the other, I think they should be given fair consideration, no matter if they meet some diversity quota or not...

That said I wouldn't really care too much if Giant Bomb DID decide they wanted a different viewpoint, but where I get annoyed is if they hire someone they think right for the job and then people rally against them for not picking x minority/sex whatever. It's not fair to this group of great guys IMO. The reaction after they picked Dan was a bit sickening and just made me sad.

I don't think it's about artificial quotas, I think it's about the fact that the very attribute of being diverse has its' own benefits. Let's say you own a company, and want to create a crack team of specialists to tackle a variety of problems. You want the best of the best - so you go to the best university in the field, and hire only the top 15 graduates. They happen to be 15 white guys, all from the Eastern United States, from upper class backgrounds. Hypothetically, shouldn't this team be the best possible team?

No. Because they're coming from a singular viewpoint. Give them a problem, and you'll likely see a lot of the same solutions. It's a very poor way of creating a team.

Giant Bomb has been great so far at creating a team that has a wide reach. Between the guys, just about every big genre & big game gets attention. They've got an excellent blend of personality types, which makes their content so exciting to watch. Part of the reason that Patrick was successful at the site, was because he didn't always fit in. He'd cover new subjects, and try to cover every angle. Diversity is the smart move for Giant Bomb. That doesn't mean hiring somebody that can't relate or work well with Alex & Vinny, just because they're a new opinion. But it needs to be considered.

 

[Blastoise]

Just hire the best for Giant Bomb. The people working there are intelligent and on point.

I'm not even worried. I just can't wait for some GBNY content.

 

[Conscience Falls]

I'll miss him, really enjoyed all he brought to the site. I wish him well on whatever it is he does next!

 

[Kieli]

I'm kind of curious how much they make in a position like this.

50k/year, and I can see myself doing this until retirement.

 

[Mechanized]

Cara Ellison would be brilliant but too bad she loves being a nomad to settle in one place

That's the dream but she seems to be happier globetrotting.

Either way I'm not worried about whoever the next hire will be. Jeff has proven he knows how to make the right choice.

 

[Will]

My main issue with Dan is that he's too much like Jeff.

Dan certainly is a lot like Jeff when it comes to his love of wrestling and eating like a four year old, but I also think he's provides a good unjustifiably optimistic yin to Jeff's "Cynical grizzled game biz vet who's seen it all" yang. Dan's at his best when he's pushing other staffers out of their comfort zone. Him getting Drew into Metal Gear like a loving jock of an older brother has been fun, and I hope Drew returns the favour one day with something else.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I don't think it's about artificial quotas, I think it's about the fact that the very attribute of being diverse has its' own benefits. Let's say you own a company, and want to create a crack team of specialists to tackle a variety of problems. You want the best of the best - so you go to the best university in the field, and hire only the top 15 graduates. They happen to be 15 white guys, all from the Eastern United States, from upper class backgrounds. Hypothetically, shouldn't this team be the best possible team?

No. Because they're coming from a singular viewpoint. Give them a problem, and you'll likely see a lot of the same solutions. It's a very poor way of creating a team.

Giant Bomb has been great so far at creating a team that has a wide reach. Between the guys, just about every big genre & big game gets attention. They've got an excellent blend of personality types, which makes their content so exciting to watch. Part of the reason that Patrick was successful at the site, was because he didn't always fit in. He'd cover new subjects, and try to cover every angle. Diversity is the smart move for Giant Bomb. That doesn't mean hiring somebody that can't relate or work well with Alex & Vinny, just because they're a new opinion. But it needs to be considered.

To put it in videogame terms, you could make a party out of nothing but LV 99 mages, but if you come across something strong to magical attack and weak to physical, you're going to wish you had swapped out a couple of those mages for warriors, even if they are only LV 98.