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[iamshadowlark]

This fact works almost entirely in the PC's favor. You still can't upgrade your console, you still can't mod it or play traditional PC games on it due to the controller situation. Consoles are much closer to PCs architecturally but most barriers that keep PC gamers away are still in place.

Meanwhile, the PC is getting console-like optimizations through Mantle, a living-room friendly form factor with SteamMachines, an easy to use interface with Big Picture and a controller made for comfy couch gaming of all PC games.

In the next year the PC will move closer to the console space than ever before. There are still a lot of unknowns but one thing is sure, a lot of people are going to start wondering if they even need a console anymore.

I guess it's good to keep the hope alive.

 

[MutonCommander]

I guess it's good to keep the hope alive.

Or just close your eyes so that you can't see the train speeding towards you. That's usually Microsoft's approach and it has worked out pretty well for them.

 

[peace]

How the fuck is ios/android that low. Lower than Wii U? LOL

Mobile is clearly the largest threat to traditional gaming (console/portable/pc) in general. That huge, expanded audience that we saw during the Wii/PS3/360 gen is GONE thanks to fucking 99 cent phone games. Just look at the sales of 3DS Brain Age. That audience ain't coming back. They get their fix and have no need for a dedicated gaming device.

#2 is definitely current gen consoles. Again, it comes back to that expanded audience. The audience that bought a Wii or 360 for Wii Sports or Just Dance or Guitar Hero and never touched it again, maybe just to use it for Netflix. Those people exist, and they aren't upgrading to a $300+ console. They don't need it.

Console sales will be way down from this current gen for these two reasons alone imo. Then again I'm pretty bad at predictions so I guess we'll just have to wait and see ^_^

I don't agree with this at all.

New releases on console continue to break record sales. Most of the people who play mobile games also buy console/PC games. The 2 (3) aren't either/or. Mobile gamers will play their mobile games during breaks at work and school, but the majority of them will have consoles at home.

IMO mobile phone gaming is a waste of time. It's like having a beautiful meal in front of you but choosing to eat a cold tin of pilchards. With custard.

I don't think PC is a threat because for every console gamer that decides to go PC there will be 10-100+ more brand new console users alone. Nevermind all the regular Sony/Microsoft fans. No doubt PC gaming will continue to grow but casual gamers will never go PC over the ease of console.

 

[Bumhead]

Are we talking about sales here or what?

Out of everyone I know who is either buying or intending to buy a PS4, absolutely none of them would ever buy a PC as a replacement for that. One or two of them might build a PC at some point in the future, but they're more "core" gamers and would be doing so alongside consoles, not to replace them.

I own a PC and I love it, but I think a lot of PC gamers seriously overstate the widespread appeal and importance of PC gaming in the wider market. The demographics are different, and there won't be cross feed for the majority unless somebody launches a "PC" with complete console convenience and a £349 price point.

 

[MutonCommander]

The demographics are different, and there won't be cross feed for the majority unless somebody launches a "PC" with complete console convenience and a £349 price point.

That's exactly what's happening in 2014.

 

[Bumhead]

That's exactly what's happening in 2014.

Where has it been confirmed the Steam Machines will price match with the PS4?

Those specs that were released for the prototypes certainly don't suggest so, I don't think?

 

[Dictator93]

Rarely is an FPS exclusive to the PC, though.
.

There are even more games beyond the list provided.
There are tons of exclusive PC fps.

 

[MutonCommander]

Where has it been confirmed the Steam Machines will price match with the PS4?

Those specs that were released for the prototypes certainly don't suggest so, I don't think?

Nothing has been confirmed either way. Those specs are only for Valve's prototype, nothing more.

 

[quetz67]

In the next year the PC will move closer to the console space than ever before. There are still a lot of unknowns but one thing is sure, a lot of people are going to start wondering if they even need a console anymore.

And meanwhile in the real world most people are already done wondering if they need a PC anymore.

Not talking about the handful of Elite PC gamers that spend insane amounts of money on gaming rigs and pay for their games (handful compared to some 150M console gamers).

Not that they are to be overlooked, but main threat to console gaming??? Sure not!

 

[LightofRohan]

Eh, no thanks. I work all day on my PC making game-assets, I don't want to game on it anymore -- I enjoy the disconnect. I can understand why people would prefer it though, don't understand why the community can be so arrogant about it though. They both have benefits to me.

 

[Durante]

I never got the whole "I work on a PC so I can't play on it" idea. I work on a PC at least 40 hours a week, but have no issue at all also playing on one. How exactly is playing on a PC different from playing on a console beyond the half-second required to launch a game, anyway? (I play console-like games on PC from a couch on a 120" projector screen)

most of what's on PC.

The depths of ignorance revealed by some of these posts is staggering.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I never got the whole "I work on a PC so I can't play on it" idea. I work on a PC at least 40 hours a week, but have no issue at all also playing on one. How exactly is playing on a PC different from playing on a console beyond the half-second required to launch a game, anyway? (I play console-like games on PC from a couch on a 120" projector screen)

The depths of ignorance revealed by some of these posts is staggering.

Heh

And meanwhile in the real world most people are already done wondering if they need a PC anymore.

Not talking about the handful of Elite PC gamers that spend insane amounts of money on gaming rigs and pay for their games (handful compared to some 150M console gamers).

Not that they are to be overlooked, but main threat to console gaming??? Sure not!

Wouldn't say most yet but, if there was ever a speeding train...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/09/us-technology-pc-sales-idUSBRE99817Y20131009

 

[MutonCommander]

Not that they are to be overlooked, but main threat to console gaming??? Sure not!

As I said before, I sincerely hope that both major console makers share that opinion. If they don't acknowledge the threat they'll fall that much faster.

 

[quetz67]

As I said before, I sincerely hope that both major console makers share that opinion. If they don't acknowledge the threat they'll fall that much faster.

So exactly what is the threat? More people building expensive PCs and not buying consoles any more? Preorder numbers say the opposite.

More people rather buying multiplats on PC? Not too likely as the next gen consoles still beat the PCs of a vast majority. And even if, how severe is the damage for Sony or MS?

People abandoning consoles for a Linux based "console" that neither plays console exclusive nor even the majority of PC games? And which is even underpowerd for the hardcore gamer or too expensive compared to consoles.

 

[cm osi]

As I said before, I sincerely hope that both major console makers share that opinion. If they don't acknowledge the threat they'll fall that much faster.

i suggest you to get rid of the junior status before going full crusader

anyway i think consoles are safe for this generation (ps4/xbone). next generation will be the death of handhelds (at least for sony) and maybe console will start to lose market share

 

[Kabouter]

As I said before, I sincerely hope that both major console makers share that opinion. If they don't acknowledge the threat they'll fall that much faster.

Oh come on, you can't be serious with stuff like this. PC is not going to cause the fall of the home console market, I don't know how anyone can seriously believe that it will.

 

[Momentary]

I'm going to guess by 2018 I'll be playing Sony's first party games on PC through either A) Their new digital storefront or B) Some sort of streaming service. They've already announced a few weeks ago that they have interest in the PC market.

This will be the first consoles generation I've skipped in the last 25 years. I'm done with it.

 

[MutonCommander]

Oh come on, you can't be serious with stuff like this. PC is not going to cause the fall of the home console market, I don't know how anyone can seriously believe that it will.

Of course not But I fully believe that it can become a great alternative for the living room, even a contender given enough time.

Edit: Change doesn't happen instantly, especially in gaming.For the next couple of years Valve's and PC gaming's goals should be to keep all current PC gamers invested in the platform instead of losing customers to next-gen consoles. That would be a big win in itself. After two years, when PC hardware has matured enough to offer console-beating performance at lower prices, then the Steam Machines could really put a dent in Sony and Microsoft's sales.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I kind of agree. Its the by-product of a very long console cycle, many people, especially enthusiasts, got sick of waiting and the rise of Steam sealed the deal

 

[Durante]

Of course not But I fully believe that it can become a great alternative for the living room, even a contender given enough time.

Edit: Change doesn't happen instantly, especially in gaming.For the next couple of years Valve's and PC gaming's goals should be to keep all current PC gamers invested in the platform instead of losing customers to next-gen consoles. That would be a big win in itself. After two years, when PC hardware has matured enough to offer console-beating performance at lower prices, then the Steam Machines could really put a dent in Sony and Microsoft's sales.

That makes sense to me. At least on GAF, it already seems like way more people will stick with PC gaming than in 2005/2006 (PC almost seemed dead here at the time).

 

[Kabouter]

Of course not But I fully believe that it can become a great alternative for the living room, even a contender given enough time.

Edit: Change doesn't happen instantly, especially in gaming.For the next couple of years Valve's and PC gaming's goals should be to keep all current PC gamers invested in the platform instead of losing customers to next-gen consoles. That would be a big win in itself. After two years, when PC hardware has matured enough to offer console-beating performance at lower prices, then the Steam Machines could really put a dent in Sony and Microsoft's sales.

Yeah, I just don't see it. I would sooner expect both traditional PC and console gaming to suffer as publishers push for a move to games as a service rather than a product. I think the actual platform people play on is going to matter less and less.

 

[Durante]

I would sooner expect both traditional PC and console gaming to suffer as publishers push for a move to games as a service rather than a product.

This is pretty much my greatest fear in gaming. Which is another reason to be excited about VR, since it makes the worst type of gaming-as-a-service (streaming from a publisher-controlled server) impossible.

 

[Ganondolf]

pc will never be a threat to consoles because its a moving platform.

 

[waypoetic]

Still won't buy one. They cost too much and they require hardware upgrades all too often. When my laptop takes it's last breath i'm buying a new PC, sure, and it'll be a stationary one, sure, but i won't put down ~$700 for a gaming PC. And i don't want to play Arma 3 THAT much...

 

[MutonCommander]

Still won't buy one. They cost too much and they require hardware upgrades all too often.

You have no way of knowing if this will still be the case next year. Maybe Valve will enforce some sort of baseline that will guarantee your Steam Machine plays all games for a number of years. Why not wait until you have all the facts before making a decision?

 

[Miguel81]

That makes sense to me. At least on GAF, it already seems like way more people will stick with PC gaming than in 2005/2006 (PC almost seemed dead here at the time).

I'm one, I used to be primarily a console gamer. The PC has been providing for most of my gaming needs since 2009.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

And how exactly is this different from any other gen?
Why people are acting like the PC advantage is something new is beyond me. Lately it seems some are pretending statements such as 'PCs are more powerful than...' and 'Higher performance compared to console's' is a recent revelation in technology. I just can't fathom why people want to act so intentionally obtuse and verbally regurgitate a decades old fact?
I hope I'm not alone in finding the new and shocking discovery, not only that PC'S are more powerful than console's *gasp!* but they also play games *fuck no way!*, seriously annoying.

Fyi: Don't get me wrong. This isn't salt about PCs being more powerful than consoles. Flying fucks are given, but not by me. I am a gamer, not some tool platform fanboy. I am simply more than irritated with the continual repeating of age old fact everyone already knows and has known for decades being treated as some new revelation.

 

[Gattsu25]

Is this the kind of shit reporting that is going to replace the "Is this PC Gaming's last generation?" article from previous gens?

 

[Miguel81]

And how exactly is this different from any other gen?
Why people are acting like the PC advantage is something new is beyond me. Lately it seems some are pretending statements such as 'PCs are more powerful than...' and 'Higher performance compared to console's' is a recent revelation in technology. I just can't fathom why people want to act so intentionally obtuse and verbally regurgitate a decades old fact?
I hope I'm not alone in finding the new and shocking discovery, not only that PC'S are more powerful than console's *gasp!* but they also play games *fuck no way!*

Fyi: Don't get me wrong. This isn't salt about PCs being more powerful than consoles. Flying fucks are given, but not by me. I am a gamer, not some tool platform fanboy. I am simply more than irritated with the continual repeating of age old fact everyone already knows and has known for decades being treated as some new revelation.

For me, it's because PCs adopted the HDMI standard and are compatible with most HDTVs(it wasn't like this before this generation) and I can finally have a powerful gaming system and an HTPC all-in-one. It blows the consoles out of the water as a media center and a gaming system(outside of exclusives)

 

[Durante]

Is this the kind of shit reporting that is going to replace the "Is this PC Gaming's last generation?" article from previous gens?

I don't know what's worse -- those 05/06 articles or the threads about these new articles on GAF.

Maybe the mainstream gaming (and general) press should just shut up about PC gaming, it's clear that they don't understand it.

 

[spirity]

Yeah, I just don't see it. I would sooner expect both traditional PC and console gaming to suffer as publishers push for a move to games as a service rather than a product. I think the actual platform people play on is going to matter less and less.

Thats a fear of mine too. We had a couple of examples of that this gen and the games weren't exactly received well. We're lucky because the way its been offered so far has been widely objectionable. But publishers want, and usually get, their own way. The sneaky bastards won't stop trying to sell us on the idea, with promises of cloud computations, enhanced experiences, content delivery, insert bullshit buzzwords here. They're gonna crack the nut eventually. They've went at it the wrong way, by shoehorning it into beloved IP's. You'll always get resistance there.

 

[PixyJunket]

They might be on to something although my reasons are maybe different than the norm.

I don't often play Western developed "AAA Games" (or is it "AAAA Games" now?) and all of the stuff that was coming out on XBLA has moved over to PC for the most part. So I see no foreseeable reason to get an Xbox One or a PS4 for the foreseeable future, neither of them seem to be offering anything interesting first party wise.

Nintendo + PC this gen (for as long as I can, at least).

 

[MutonCommander]

The next gen battle will be fought over many years. Most people hear the phrase "PC is a threat to consoles" and assume that it means PS4 and XB1 sales will be abysmal because everyone will start buying PCs. That's not the case at all. Valve and the PC in general will need at least five years in order to mount an industry-disrupting challenge, but that doesn't mean that they can't win significant battles before that.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Here's a useful answer instead of shitty memes and jokes:

Nvidia:
+better drivers (not a bit better, a lot better, nvidia only users' anger at 2-3 games having problems in the past 2 years attests to that, I WISH it was only two games for me)
+better open gl support
+supports downsampling (this way you can have real AA in games that don't have a proper AA solution built into the game, which nowadays is about 80 percent of games)
+supports SGSSAA, another good AA method alternative
+ has physx support (gimmicky particles and cloth tacked on in games)
+shadowplay: game recording using the gpu to encode the video, which means you can record with no real performance hit , this is only relevant if you are someone who makes videos of their games, uploads to youtube or streams on twitch
+ lightboost support (eliminate the terrible motion blur of lcd monitors if you have a 120 hz monitor)
+supports the new gsync thing for monitors, which eliminates screentearing (I will not dignify the lag/stutter part, noone should play with normal vsync on to begin with), which is a really promising meaningful change in how monitors work
+better support for multiple gpus
+consume a bit less power/ performance

-costs on average 30 percent more because fuck consumers they will pay anything if there's no real competition
-rather weak compute performance (gpgpu stuff like gpu physics and whatnot )
-doesn't support the mantle API (see amd section for what it is)

AMD:
+cheaper
+better compute performance
+overclock well
+this mantle API, which right now is unquantifiable, once it's used in some games we will be able to judge it until then we really don't know if it's the best thing since sliced bread or a fart in a bag or anywhere in between
+amd have been working on making their crossfire drivers better

- (and this is my biggest gripe, drivers aside): no viable AA solution to make use of the performance in older games or less demanding games or the average modern game
So I think their higher end gpus (7970ghz and up) are only an option for those with 120hz monitors or multiple monitor set ups (where you have a real use for that performance)

-drivers have been really bad from 2010-2013, it has been better in the past 6 months but it's way too soon to tell if that is just a statistical anomaly or not, I have been soured on their drivers, personally.
Other people who play different games may have had a better experience

-missing the proprietary stuff that nvidia has like physx and lightboost, also no shadowplay for recording (can't remember if they had an amd alternative right now)

-won't be able to use the g sync monitors (well you can use them but not use the variable refresh rate from g sync)


At the lower-mid end i'd probably recommend amd, even though it's a gamble on drivers imo
If you play a lot of older games,definitely go for nvidia (no real aa support on amd to make them look better, there's only SSAA and the amd version has not worked for me in a lot of games, and the performance cost is huuuuuuuge, too huge for something like a 7850 for example)
Whatever you do ,do not buy a gtx 660ti 2GB, that card is a one off with a crippled memory bus, a bad apple.

At the mid-high end (7970ghz and probably 290) you choose between a better price, or AA support
I wouldn't buy either tbh.... fuck nvidia for overpricing, fuck amd for not having an AA solution (seriously, what the fuck is wrong with them)

At the high end (290x) I don't see the point of this gpu unless you have multiple monitors or a 120hz monitor, and we have no idea what the price will be yet or where the high end nvidia prices are going in the next week, need to wait and see.

Thank you for being amazingly thorough.

These are the main points of my build, or rather what im aiming towards....

1) 60FPS is GOD. No compromise, no debate. Im building a PC primarily for Framerate performance.

2) Im not really interested in gaming above 1080p. I do have an 27 imac that I can use to game at 1440p but its not a big deal for me. Im happy with both the mointor and tv I have.

3) I want to be playing alot of emulators and older games. Newer gamea are of course important but i want to look backwards as much as forwards.

4) I play aloy of action games (DMC, Gow etc) and alot of fighters. I dont give a shit about things like crysis, BF4 and the like. Edit: I also have no interest in kb/m games and genres. Controllers all day everyday.


5) I want a card that runs as cool as possible to put in a HTPC. however Im building a HTPC that can fit a full ATX motherboard.

6) No interest in AMD cpus. Itel may be more expensive but I prefer Intel.

7) Im basically building a super powerful second console. I want to use a combination of BPM and XBMC as my UI.

8) I am willing to spend about $450 on a gpu but if i spend that much, I expect it to last 5 years.

With that all in mind, do you guys have any recommendations?