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[Jintor]

I wanted to find a metaphor to describe it but... it's like reading a series you really love, a thing you've come to think of as thoughtful, nuanced, well-meaning if not necessarily always perfect, and then halfway through it just goes "But yeah chinese people are just fucking the worst and you shouldn't rent apartments to them"*

Like

It's really, really disappointing.

Yeah, sure, to the people making it maybe it's a dumb joke, cultural differences, blah blah blah. But what I interpret it as is like if your best friend you feel like you've really gotten to know turns out to be just a little bit racist. Not super racist. Just that bit.

*this happens

 

[GSR]

also, like

for a series that focuses on understanding and accepting your true self (particularly during the fraught teenage years)

seeing alternative sexualities get reduced to a joke is kind of a slap in the face for lgbtq+ fans of the game, especially ones that are in high school/college



Like, I'm not saying Let's All Boycott Persona 5 or This Is The Single Most Important Problem In All Of Videogames or anything, but these scenes are a really big blind spot/cultural difference and they're gonna hurt people when it comes west, even if they are a very small part of the game. Whether or not Atlus USA should remove them is a different question. Part of me says yes, or at least they should be reworked to take the edges off, but part of me also wants to see this blow up to some degree in the hopes it'll get back to Atlus Japan.

 

[PK Gaming]

When it comes to entertainment, kind of?

Like I'd never, ever try to prevent inclusivity. But it's not something I look for either, I don't think? I absolutely support good media that features strong representations of minorities and the like. But I support them because they're good media, not because of gender, skin colour etc. etc.

I read the other day that Atlanta has an all black writing team. That's very cool. Like as a thing. Good going.
But that isn't why I like the show.

HmmmmmmmmmmmmmRMMMMMMmmmmmmMMMMMMM

I get your viewpoint, but I completely, completely, completely disagree. Like 10000%. For me, representation is absolutely worth appreciating / being bummed out about it. Like, I don't get discounting a show's diversity because of reasons like "I don't see race" or some nonsense like that. To me, things like representation are inextricably linked to show's quality. I'm not militant about it, so I'm not going to go "oh this show has an all black writing team, I have to watch it!", nor am I gonna go "well this show has garbage female representation, pass", but those things will definitely affect my view on a particular piece of media. I don't hate you for it, but saying stuff like "well I DON'T care about it, so why does it even matter lol" is just so incredibly myopic/self-centered for my taste.

Also I finished Atlanta. So good, S2 when?

 

[DNAbro]

But if it's a mild annoyance, why would anyone care?

All I'm saying is that we should treat it for what it is - a dumb joke. Nobody's not buying the game because of it and most people aren't going to care about it at all.

Would it be nice if future Persona games were a bit more respectful to minorities? Sure, and P5 has less fan service than P4, so clearly they're making progress. Baby steps.

But on a personal level I'll not be upset if they don't change that joke.

The level of care I am having is saying to Atlus this isn't cool and you should stop. This isn't a huge effort. I am still going to enjoy the game, I would enjoy it a bit more if I didn't feel a bit belittled by a joke in it.


Just as a quick opposite to this, I've been playing Stardew Valley. This game allowed me to get married to a guy as a guy and that honestly made me incredibly happy. It is kind of a minor thing in the whole scheme of the game (which is also fantastic), but it made me enjoy the game a lot more. I don't see a reason to get another Harvest Moon type game other than this one. If there was a Persona competitor that had something near the same quality as Persona (there isn't and won't be) and maybe if I didn't feel insulted while playing it, maybe I would enjoy that series more.

But as I said, I know I'm going to enjoy P5 regardless

 

[Lynx_7]

But if you're going to argue the idea of slippery slope in the first place, then any minor change is equivalent to further changes down the line, right?

I don't know if you were referring to my post or Zolo's, but mine was directed torwards the idea of a localization "improving on the original" which I think is a dangerous slippery slope considering how subjective that idea is. At any case, pkgaming clarified what he meant while I was writing my post and going by the person he quoted that's not really what they were going for (he was talking about the editing process and polishing up the text, which has nothing to do with trying to improve on the original work).

About the

Spoiler

beach scene

in particular, it wasn't meant to elicit the response it's getting so I see no harm in changing it to something less offensive. Hardin did say they changed Manabu(SMT IV Apocalypse) in the localization because he was apparently an offensive stereotype in the japanese script, so this wouldn't be that different. That said, I know people here feel disenfranchised about Atlus JP apparently not giving a shit about western fans, but I think this kind of criticism can reach them if communicated well enough. Like, someone here mentioned Kanji as proof that they won't change their ways, but Kanji's portrayal was overwhelmingly praised within the mainstream gaming media when P4 came out so I really don't think that's a good example to set for Atlus JP ignoring the west. Criticism towards his character is mostly confined to smaller discussions like here.

 

[Setsu00]

About the

Spoiler

beach scene

in particular, it wasn't meant to elicit the response it's getting so I see no harm in changing it to something less offensive. Hardin did say they changed Manabu(SMT IV Apocalypse) in the localization because he was apparently an offensive stereotype in the japanese script, so this wouldn't be that different. That said, I know people here feel disenfranchised about Atlus JP apparently not giving a shit about western fans, but I think this kind of criticism can reach them if communicated well enough. Like, someone here mentioned Kanji as proof that they won't change their ways, but Kanji's portrayal was overwhelmingly praised within the mainstream gaming media when P4 came out so I really don't think that's a good example to set for Atlus JP ignoring the west. Criticism towards his character is mostly confined to smaller discussions like here.

Kanji's Shadow is the epitome of Japanese gay stereotypes (muscular men and roses are associated with homosexuality in Japan), but it makes perfect sense in context as the Midnight Channel portrays the person's Shadow trapped in the TV world in the way the people of Inaba see them. Yosuke's treatment of Kanji after meeting his Shadow is sort of homophobic, but it's exactly the kind of behavior I'd expect from a 16-year old in the midst of his puberty growing up in a society that isn't exactly kind to people who differ from the norm. The whole scenario has actually fantastic potential for social commentary, especially once you factor in that Yosuke's S.Link was most likely meant to be romantic based on some unused data.

Kanji really has to be among the most misunderstood characters in fiction of all time, right next to Naoto. He was never meant to be gay and the homosexual imagery used in his dungeon is saying more about the society of Inaba than about him. Kanji's arc is about manliness.

 

[TheGeniusArcana]

Always weird to see so many people push against the idea of toning down stuff like that while simultaneously claiming it is very minor. If that's the case, then a change shouldn't really matter, right?

This isn't directed at any one person, but I just see this sentiment a lot, and while I can understand the desire to preserve the original, I think a lot of it can get messy at times.

 

[BadRNG]

Hopefully this is good to ask here. Gameplay related question for P5, small Ryuji confidant ability spoiler/question:

Spoiler

Did they ever patch his rank 7 ability or anything? Just got him to rank 5 and am wondering if I should hold off after 6, I heard that the instant-kill power is pretty annoying if you are trying to level up/farm money.

And if I should hold off, how long is safe? I saw late October somewhere to begin finishing him off but not clear.

 

[StarSketch]

Hopefully this is good to ask here. Gameplay related question for P5, small Ryuji confidant ability spoiler/question:

Spoiler

Did they ever patch his rank 7 ability or anything? Just got him to rank 5 and am wondering if I should hold off after 6, I heard that the instant-kill power is pretty annoying if you are trying to level up/farm money.

And if I should hold off, how long is safe? I saw late October somewhere to begin finishing him off but not clear.

Is this the

Spoiler

run into shit, get random Persona instead of entering combat

thing? Don't remember whose confidant ability that was.

 

[Deleted member 518609]

Hopefully this is good to ask here. Gameplay related question for P5, small Ryuji confidant ability spoiler/question:

Spoiler

Did they ever patch his rank 7 ability or anything? Just got him to rank 5 and am wondering if I should hold off after 6, I heard that the instant-kill power is pretty annoying if you are trying to level up/farm money.

And if I should hold off, how long is safe? I saw late October somewhere to begin finishing him off but not clear.

Spoiler

Unfortunately they didn't patch it no. If you do plan on farming money/EXP or just enjoy most battles, I'd not level his co-op up any further. I'd say October's too early, I personally ignored the last few ranks of his one until a couple weeks before the cut-off date for co-ops just because of this.

Is this the

Spoiler

run into shit, get random Persona instead of entering combat

thing? Don't remember whose confidant ability that was.

Yes, that's the one.

 

[BadRNG]

Spoiler

Unfortunately they didn't patch it no. If you do plan on farming money/EXP or just enjoy most battles, I'd not level his co-op up any further. I'd say October's too early, I personally ignored the last few ranks of his one until a couple weeks before the cut-off date for co-ops just because of this.

Alright I'll hold off then, thanks. It's a bummer they left something like this in.

 

[Lunar15]

Maybe it's time to step back for a bit?

I was wondering where you went... did something happen?

Thanks for the concern. I'm ok, just the election and job burnout/anxiety really got to me recently and I've been working through it.

Still excited for P5 though

 

[MSMrRound]

Tom James aka Pepsiman did a pretty nice write-up on his thoughts about the upcoming localization of Persona 5, which is a pretty interesting read since he himself did some localization work for games such as Monster Hunter Generations as well, so he had a few issues he was wary of, both from the publisher's point of view, as well as how the English-speaking audience might potentially view Persona 5:

https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/814615451393257472

 

[Lynx_7]

Tom James aka Pepsiman did a pretty nice write-up on his thoughts about the upcoming localization of Persona 5, which is a pretty interesting read since he himself did some localization work for games such as Monster Hunter Generations as well, so he had a few issues he was wary of, both from the publisher's point of view, as well as how the English-speaking audience might potentially view Persona 5:

https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/814615451393257472

That was a great read, thanks for sharing. I'm really curious to see what the critical response to P5 is going to be like considering NA's political context right now.
Only a few more months to go.

Spoiler

A few less months if the delay didn't happen never forget #hardinlied

 

[Dantis]

That was a weird read. Not what I expected, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

[Setsu00]

I think he has a point, especially when it comes to people having different interpretations on the characters in the West and in Japan. Naoto is obviously a major point of contention here, and maybe even Adachi whose entire attitude makes a lot more sense and (Major P4 spoiler)

Spoiler

in line with the "rotten adults" stuff that is a major part of Persona 5

when you know about the Japanese bubble economy.

 

[Sophia]

I think people will have a good understanding of what Tom means once the game comes out. Persona 5 sends a very powerful message in it's story and, as he notes, more so then previous games.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

I think people will have a good understanding of what Tom means once the game comes out. Persona 5 sends a very powerful message in it's story and, as he notes, more so then previous games.

I agree with Sophia, having seen how the game plays out.
It'll have applicability in western countries for sure, but this game was made for Japan.

 

[Sophia]

I agree with Sophia, having seen how the game plays out.
It'll have applicability in western countries for sure, but this game was made for Japan.

I'm not even sure the game being made for Japan is a big deal. The story's themes are very strong. Stronger then Persona 3 or Persona 4 in this regard. That being said, I understand what Tom is saying. He also indirectly makes it clear just how difficult it is to localize a game like Persona 5 is. Keeping as much of the nuances as possible is a very difficult task, and I don't envy the people working on the localization.

I actually struggle to name too many RPGs (Western or Japanese) that have such strong themes and run with them through their entire story like Persona 5 does. The only two that come to mind immediately are Xenogears, which is in a league all of it's own, and Planescape: Torment.

 

[daevious]

I think people will have a good understanding of what Tom means once the game comes out. Persona 5 sends a very powerful message in it's story and, as he notes, more so then previous games.

From just getting the cliff-notes version of the game from Shouta's stream, the themes Persona 5 tackles are very distinct. It's certainly going to be interesting to see how people react to it come launch.

 

[the_sun_king]

86 days to go...

#ForeverSalty

 

[Olengie]

I hope they have some Pre Order bonuses for Persona 5.

Amazon says they have pre order bonuses right now for the Collector's Edition. But it's actually the stuff from the collector's edition as the pre order bonus. -.-

 

[Strimei]

86 days to go...

#ForeverSalty

I'm sure we'll all forget about it when its in our mitts, though.

And on the plus side, there's a lot of stuff to play in the coming months anyway. I was writing down what I'm most interested in and oof, this is a stacked four months, easily.

 

[vaporeon]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

 

[Strimei]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

Its Ann.

And nice work!

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

The JP version is Anne, the ENG version is Ann.
I'm guessing it's for pronunciation reasons, since "Anne" doesn't sound like it has a soft ending in Japanese.

Also DAMN that's a fine piece of work.

 

[PK Gaming]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

That's disgusting...

...ly good

I think i'm going to be sick

Because it's so good

 

[vaporeon]

Thank you all! Watch Atlus switch is back unexpectedly just to mess with me.

That's disgusting...

...ly good

I think i'm going to be sick

Because it's so good

I don't recommend being sick. Got only one hour of sleep last night and I'm seconds away from my body giving out. (((

 

[TheGeniusArcana]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

Dang, hope you feel better. Art looks amazing!

 

[DNAbro]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

oh that's cute art.

 

[Mediking]

I hope they have some Pre Order bonuses for Persona 5.

Amazon says they have pre order bonuses right now for the Collector's Edition. But it's actually the stuff from the collector's edition as the pre order bonus. -.-

I'm more salty that Amazon couldn't get the Joker avatar set/ theme and other stuff from the PSN preorder bonuses for P5.

I think Atlusprime said that all that stuff will hit PSN someday so we can buy it for ourselves but who knows how long that would take.

Does anybody even have P5 preordered on PSN? What does Joker avatars look like and his theme?

Is it possible to pretend like you're preordering P5 then cancel it so you can keep the preorder bonuses?

 

[Olengie]

I'm more salty that Amazon couldn't get the Joker avatar set/ theme and other stuff from the PSN preorder bonuses for P5.

I think Atlusprime said that all that stuff will hit PSN someday so we can buy it for ourselves but who knows how long that would take.

Does anybody even have P5 preordered on PSN? What does Joker avatars look like and his theme?

Is it possible to pretend like you're preordering P5 then cancel it so you can keep the preorder bonuses?

I hope we get the same Free DLC Japan has been getting lately.

 

[Mediking]

I hope we get the same Free DLC Japan has been getting lately.

??? What kinda free DLC is Japan getting? Costumes? Persona? I'm willing to pay for pretty much anything for P5 as long as its reasonably priced and near the launch of the game.

 

[MSMrRound]

Is it possible to pretend like you're preordering P5 then cancel it so you can keep the preorder bonuses?

If you are referring to PSN pre-order, probably no. Even if you do so you are risking the chance of your PSN account getting banned because of false chargeback issues.

Anyway it's just a set of themes and avatars. I'm sure John and the team will iron out the details in the days to come.

I mean..I have been playing the Japanese version of Persona 5 and I'm using the Singapore store (R3 region) instead of the Japanese store (R2). Sure, the Japanese store usually get themes/costumes at a much faster pace and I had to wait around for a bit, but my store DID eventually get the new stuff even though the Playstation Asia staff aren't known for being the most up-to-date personnel when it comes to updating the PSN store...

AtlusUSA's overseeing the publication of Persona 5 details themselves and they have usually been very on the ball. I mean, you see John popping in to the GAF community thread as well as the SMT subreddit ever so often, and he's pretty approachable via Twitter.

I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

[Deleted member 518609]

??? What kinda free DLC is Japan getting? Costumes? Persona? I'm willing to pay for pretty much anything for P5 as long as its reasonably priced and near the launch of the game.

Hardly spoilers, but in case anyone doesn't want to know what P5's DLC consists of for whatever reason, I'll tag it.

Spoiler

- School Uniform/Everyday costumes
- Swimsuit costumes
- Persona 1 costumes
- Christmas costumes
- Maid/Butler costumes
- Morgana Car stickers
All of the above are free. The Catherine costumes were also free for the first week they were released.

Does anybody even have P5 preordered on PSN? What does Joker avatars look like and his theme?

 

[Funyarinpa]

Guys...this is a serious question: Is it Ann or Anne, officially? I feel like I'm in a Berenstain Bears parallel universe situation over her name.

Despite being terribly sick, I finally pushed myself to finish this.

Holy shiiiiiiiiiit. That's some sweet-ass art.

I'm not even that salty about the delay since I'd probably end up only able to play it in summer, and we ARE getting dual audio after all.

I do have something I worry about, though. I preordered the TYH edition and it was juuust below the 75€ limit for import tax for me. Then the idiots that are (failing at) running this shithole of a country we call Turkey decided to lower the import tax limit to 30€ so I think I'll have to pay import taxes and I don't think I'll be able to afford that (the Turkish Lira is in such deep shit that we have literally been breaking records for the highest $/Lira exchange rate almost every weekday since October or thereabouts). Fuck.

Sorry for ranting.

 

[artsi]

Yay my P5 artbook arrived.

Holy shit it's thick. I didn't expect that, compared to my previous Soejima Works artbook it's like triple the thickness lol.
Now I just need to finish the game before I can read it ;__;

 

[Mediking]

Gotta admit... hearing several PersonaGaf members say that Persona 5 tackles heavy themes really makes me smile... Now that gets me excited.

[IMG]https://j.gifs.com/58wOkx.gif[/IMG]

^ Lol love how Morgana is in Joker's desk. Would be super charming if Morgana tries to help you in class and sometimes Morgana gets you in trouble or actually helps you.

Oh! And @MSMrRound and @fixyouregrammar Thanks for telling me. Lol I won't risk canceling a Persona 5 preorder on PSN just to get the Joker stuff.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Gotta admit... hearing several PersonaGaf members say that Persona 5 tackles heavy themes really makes me smile... Now that gets me excited.

[IMG]https://j.gifs.com/58wOkx.gif[/IMG]

^ Lol love how Morgana is in Joker's desk. Would be super charming if Morgana tries to help you in class and sometimes Morgana gets you in trouble or actually helps you.

Oh! And @MSMrRound and @fixyouregrammar Thanks for telling me. Lol I won't risk canceling a Persona 5 preorder on PSN just to get the Joker stuff.

Let me put it this way (P5 general structure spoilers)

Spoiler

If Morgana was in P4, he'd be the voice telling Yu to leave Yosuke be... twice.

 

[MSMrRound]

P5 spoilers (?): Nah, Morgana is the

Spoiler

mom that's always nagging at you to go and sleep. Are you tired Joker!? ...well I feel fine and I want to level up my stats- NOOOO DENIED!!! GO AND SLEEEEEP

 

[Makio]

86 days to go...

#ForeverSalty

That's why i dont like Atlus USA throwing too many trailers this early , this silence from them make things "worse"

What happen to the Robbie Daymond interview and possible Goro Trailer (which im extra curious to see how much they show off).

----
Fun fact : in a Perfect world where Hardin didnt lie will be only 34 days away of Persona 5 (Feb 14th) but there again in a perfect world this game came out back in Winter 2014 (2015 in the west) hehe...

Spoiler

#ForeverSalty

 

[jzbluz]

The delay killed my hype a bit. I had the LE edition preordered, but I cancelled it and kept my $40 PS3 version instead, even though that means I have to dig the PS3 out of storage and no remote play for me.

 

[Red The Hunter]

Haven't posted in a long while, excited for Persona 5 even if delayed till April, but I can wait patientlly. I do want to ask for some help as I'm finishing up Persona Q I'm at the point to where I would battle the final boss and like some advice on what levwls, party members I should take, skills/personas I should have.

 

[Lynx_7]

Hardly spoilers, but in case anyone doesn't want to know what P5's DLC consists of for whatever reason, I'll tag it.

Spoiler

- School Uniform/Everyday costumes
- Swimsuit costumes
- Persona 1 costumes
- Christmas costumes
- Maid/Butler costumes
- Morgana Car stickers
All of the above are free. The Catherine costumes were also free for the first week they were released.

To be honest I kinda like Ryuji's avatar better than either of these MC alternatives, even though I prefer Joker's design. The left one looks unintentionally goofy, the right one is just kinda boring and the middle one looks a bit off to me.

 

[jzbluz]

So I was looking at a list ranking the best selling anime series from 2000-now, and P4 was ranked #33. This is pretty old news, but I'm somehow missed how much the original animation sold.

 

[Makio]

In the topic of Persona 4 Animation i think i "love" that series more than the game itself , like dont get me wrong i like P4 but i feel i didnt like it as much without watching the animation.

For example really help me to "sell" me more characters i didnt put too much attention in game like Yukiko (her episode is great) Ebihara or Ayane. And made some scenes better or funnier to me like King Game scene

Plus still thinking the songs and the soundtrack made for it is underrated asf and not get the love it deserve

In resume i really love that series and always grateful Sentai went all out getting the dub and VA of the game that really add bonus points to the experience despite a part of me was curious to see (hear) how the series was handled with a Funimation /Houston based cast.

Funny enough with the P3 Movies is like the opposite case i like them for what they are and how they handle MC personality but really dislike some things they change or adapt compare to the game

 

[Olengie]

When you wish the P3 Movies got a dub. </3

 

[the_sun_king]

The exploration of Yukiko's character early on was probably the best thing about P4 The Animation. Second would be Ayane.

Spoiler

Atlus should have just put her in The Golden instead of Marie.

The worst thing about The Animation was how it handled Kanji and Naoto and their issues, respectively. Especially the former. It's because of that that I don't recommend it to anyone who's interested at all in P4. Play either version of the game instead.

 

[Setsu00]

When you wish the P3 Movies got a dub. </3

The first P3 movie was dubbed.

Spoiler

Into German.

 

[Dragon1893]

Plus still thinking the songs and the soundtrack made for it is underrated asf and not get the love it deserve

Oh I can definitely agree with this. Between both animes they put together a ton of awesome songs.
I'm really glad most of them were performed live.