Fine Ham Abounds
Member
BG
A and Champions of Norrath are incredible games. I don't get the hate that BGA gets just because it wasn't even trying to be a CRPG but had the BG name.It's not like it's difficult to like both.
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Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian Entertainment (Kickstarter) [Up: Teaser]
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BG
A and Champions of Norrath are incredible games. I don't get the hate that BGA gets just because it wasn't even trying to be a CRPG but had the BG name.It's not like it's difficult to like both.
Ahaha... I'm definitely waiting for the perfect time to properly enjoy the game. I guess the wait for Project Eternity will not be so difficult for me
Ahaha... I'm definitely waiting for the perfect time to properly enjoy the game. I guess the wait for Project Eternity will not be so difficult for me
Play it sometime this winter, with a hot cup of delicious coffee, tea, or cocoa, and enjoy and immerse yourself in it like you would a good book.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
ok, obsidian just owned me. Very nice environ, they need to ditch the ren-faire character concepts though.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
And you're still running the inn? Truly, Obsidan hype knows no boundaries.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
LOL! I know these are amazing, amazing games. I had no access to a decent gaming PC until the last 2 to 3 years. When I did so, I was introduced to Steam and all hope was lost with a massive, massive backlog!
Well, you're in for a treat. Did you play BG2? If not, getting into these games might be a bit rocky, most people I recommended these games to had some troubles in the first parts, but stick with it. All of them now consider these games some of the best ever.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
As I said: None. Recommend me where to start cause April 2014 is fucking far!
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
I'd personally recommend BG2 as a start, if only because thats the game that got me into all of the IE games back when it first came out. Might be a little rough with the combat if you aren't familiar with D&D rules, but the story and characters and world are pretty great. It seems BG2 is kind of the biggest influence on what Obsidian is trying to do with Project Eternity too, so there's that. You don't really need to start with Baldur's Gate 1 either, as Baldur's Gate 2 does a good job of catching you up on the story and BG2 is just a more polished game than BG1.
Torment is great too obviously, but I had a little harder time getting into that just because the setting was so odd at first, especially since I played it after I played BG2, which is much more traditional high fantasy.. But ultimately, the weird setting is what makes Torment so great. Although the combat in BG2 was much better than Torment, IMO.
Okay, I think the best way to get started with this is BG2. It is not only one of the most polished, rounded and extensive of the bunch, but it's also the most accessible. PS:T is about on par with BG2 in terms of quality, but is less accessible, so BG2 will make a better introduction to the Infinity Engine. But if you're really sick of Forgotten Realms and fantasy worlds, this is might be a good game to start with. As was mentioned both by me and Jibbajabbawockky, the start will be a little hard, the battles might seem confusing and both games sort of throw you into the pool, but you should just force your way through it - Once you get into it, you won't regret it. I will recommend familiarizing yourself with some of the very basics of AD&D before playing (know what needs to be high and what is low, because that is not obvious, and know what THAC0 means, etc.)
Now, if you really liked the battle system in those two games, I would recommend you give the Icewind Dale series a try, if you didn't I would skip it altogether.
I would also skip BG1 for now, the game did not age that good (not necessarily in term of UI, which can easily be fixed with mods, but in design sensibilities. Companion interactions are seriously lacking compared to BG2 for example.) It's not a bad game by any stretch though, so after you're done with the rest of the Infinity family you would probably want to give it a go.
Before that, though, Fallout 2 is an amazing game that should also be played. It is quite different in many regards (setting, battle system, engine), but it's still share much with the IE games. Many will tell you Fallout 1 is better - Do not believe them. They are wrong. Play Fallout 1 somewhere down the road, but Fallout 2 is a superior game. But before getting to that, you still have even more great games like Arcanum (as flaws as it is) to play!
So, in short, my recommended order:
BG2 -> PS:T -> either Fallout 2 or IWD -> Fallout 1 or IWD 2 -> BG1 -> Arcanum.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Buy the whole bundle, start playing with 'Baldur's Gate I' using a mod that puts it in the 'BGII' engine (3D acceleration for nice fog, gameplay and other improvements) then if you want more of that but quite a lot better play 'BGII', if you want less story and more awesome combat play 'Icewind Dale Complete', if you care less about combat and want (a ton) more story and choices play 'Planescape: Torment' (I don't recommend starting with it because it's jankier and also hard to keep track of things without details in the quest log and the combat is dreadful so may put you off further). 'Temple of Elemental Evil' is there for when you want even more combat but in a more hardcore turn based setting closer to the pen and paper games and 'Icewind Dale II Complete' is there if you want more 'Icewind Dale', but not as good. Outside these there are 'Fallout' 1 and 2 that are great and different, more sandboxy in their approach of freedom in gameplay than overly wordy like 'Planescape: Torment', and while you can sort of have a party you only have full control over the main character so they're not really party based. Use the high res mods for these two (I don't think they're necessary for the IE games unless you have a stupidly high resolution monitor, I personally play them windowed at 1024x768 even though they can go a lot higher - but not widescreen - without mods). These are the most prominent. I'd recommend some Spiderweb games like 'Avernum: Escape from the Pit' before things like 'Arcanum' myself. There are other underdogs like Divine Divinity that are of value as well, but the first recommendations are going to be hard to top. I recommend 'BGI' first (or 'IWD Complete' actually!) instead of 'BGII' because it would be very hard to go back to it after II which renders its story insignificant and obsolete, plus it's not at all less user friendly and smooth like some say when using the mod I mentioned.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, bollocks to that, Fallout 1 is superior in nearly ev- Ian. Ian. Move, Ian. No, not towards me, get away from the bloody door. Get away from- oh, forget it. *full auto burst*
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Speaking as someone who finally started (again) getting into the olde Black Isle games, I am having a better time with Torment than BG2. The biggest reason is that I still can't wrap my head around the D&D rules (espeaclly magic) but with Torment you can avoid most of the combat (I just put combat at dead easy and I'm just enjoying the story). Torment story and location wise is out there compared to BG2 but atleast I don't get fustrated with the combat.
Fallout counts too? If so, then I did have a much better time with Fallout 1/2; simpler rules that I was use to from Fallout 3/NV
Wait, what??????
You're started this awesome GAF Inn idea and you haven't played any of those old classics?
That makes you even more awesome!
Seriously: GO PLAY BG2 right now...
also, try NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, Fallout: New Vegas and Alpha Protocol
Well, most people find BG2 easier because of the familiar world and the fact that the game is simply much more polished and rounded. The combat in PS:T is quite boring compared to BG2. But yeah - PS:T could also be a good point to start. Really depends on the person.
But you do bring a good point - reading the manual to familiarize yourself with some of the basics of D&D will really help you understand the mechanics better. Know what attributes need to be lower and which higher, know what THAC0 means and these sort of things. The original BG2 manual was pretty excellent in getting you up to speed, I don't know what current versions of the game ship with, but I think there's a digital version in the game folder.
And Fallout... i personally found harder to get into, but maybe it's just me?
EDIT: Oh, fuck, I forgot about ToEE and MotB. Play those as well after you're done with the classics... You might want to bump BG1 or Fallout 1 a bit further back. Though by then if might be 2014 already!
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I'd not recommend Fallout to start with either, but I'd still recommend 1 before 2- the UI improvements in 2 make going back to 1 after hard going, unless there's a way to mod them in nowadays.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
IE D&D is simple and solid once you read some basics, for example, that Armor Class is better at low numbers, not high, that it doesn't mitigate damage but instead makes you less likely to get hit, like a dodge stat would be in other games, that casters need to memorize spells in their spell books and then use them as consumables per day (and can memorize the same spell more than once in the available slots if you want to use it more) rather than via some kind of mana pool, which means you should also equip them with some missile weapons or whatever to have them useful without wasting their spells in minor encounters, what THAC0 is, and a few more things. Then you need to set a few really helpful auto-pause options like these to avoid missing certain chances but still not make it stop too frequently. Get used to tapping space to resume/pause at will, and you're good to go. You get a flow going and the game feels smooth and you feel badass devising your strategies and destroying enemy hordes (maybe after failing once or twice before figuring them out).
In fact, for all the talk of it being too complex you're probably all set just by reading this post (THAC0 is your chance to hit for melee/ranged if the enemy Armor Class is 0, the lower the better also, you need it negative to hit enemies with high AC). Speed is better in lower numbers too, and gives extra attacks. I'm no expert myself and did make the mistake of thinking it's too hard when I first tried to play the games but it was my fault for not going through these basics. You don't need to become a master at min maxing your stats for maximum efficiency per level to enjoy the games.
In fact, for all the talk of it being too complex you're probably all set just by reading this post (THAC0 is your chance to hit for melee/ranged if the enemy Armor Class is 0, the lower the better also, you need it negative to hit enemies with high AC). Speed is better in lower numbers too, and gives extra attacks. I'm no expert myself and did make the mistake of thinking it's too hard when I first tried to play the games but it was my fault for not going through these basics. You don't need to become a master at min maxing your stats for maximum efficiency per level to enjoy the games.
I also would recommend BG2, also for the simple fact that it let's you build your own character at the start of the game; choose a class, choose attribute points, choose avatar picture, whilest PS:T it's all far more obscure...
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Welp. Looks like I have a lot of role-playing to in the coming months. Thanks guys!
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Start with either BG1 or IWD1 first.
Terra_Ex
Member
BG1 with the mod to port it to BG2's engine, then either onto BG2 or IWD1 after that. Switch to PS:T if you tire of combat and want reams of quality text.
Yeah I'm not sure he should start with BG2 first. There's much more of a learning curve there with D&D since combat is a lot more prominent.
PS:T is all about the story and combat is relatively minimal and can often be outright ignored, so I think it's easier to jump into.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
There was a really good website that detailed the IE AD&D rules for newcomers but i cant seem to find it atm.
First game in Infinity enginge, and overall in D&D, that i've played was BG2. I was around thirteen back then and it wasn't that hard to figure out stuff.
Come on, most of us were playing this game when we were in our teens, I think he'll be able to figure it out without a huge tutorial
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Not to nitpick but where does the idea that Black Islde/Troika/Obsidian having anything to do with the development of the Baldur's Gate series come from? It's a common mistake I see on the internet; the Baldur's Gate series was entirely developed by Bioware.
Still excellent games though.
Personally, if you want to get a good idea of Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian:
Start with Fallout 1 and 2.
Follow up with Planescape Torment
End with Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
Those are their best pre-modern games.
The rest of their catalog is optional.
Still excellent games though.
Personally, if you want to get a good idea of Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian:
Start with Fallout 1 and 2.
Follow up with Planescape Torment
End with Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
Those are their best pre-modern games.
The rest of their catalog is optional.
The point is there's nothing to "figure out" in Torment. You're playing that game for the story, and as such it's easier to get a foothold on. If we're comparing these games based on how easy it is for the D&D newcomer to get into, I'd go with Torment, a game that someone who knows nothing about the system can easily play through.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I think it's about getting into old school RPGs like this is going to be rather than just a specific studio's output.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
While this is true the problem with starting PS:T first is that i will set your expectations for things in BG2. i was terribly disappointed that BG2 had very little (almost none) interactivity in dialogue.
That's at least 20% not true though. PS:T does requite understanding some AD&D rules or the game will by much harder and less friendly. It requires less understanding of them than BG2, but you still need to understand the basics.
Minsc
Gold Member
I don't really think you do. You can basically select all --> attack to get through almost every encounter, even on Normal.
Where that stops being a valid tactic comes in tough optional areas like Modron Maze and Undersigil, where combat is indeed difficult but where it isn't critical to venture to to complete the game. There's also Baator, but the place is tiny and it's feasible to simply run past all of the enemies if you are having trouble. If nothing else someone can turn it down to Easy and have an even simpler time of it.
I love Torment but it's not a game where you'll see me defending the combat. I also don't think it matters too much that the combat is weak, since it's so trivial to the game. There are only three mandatory fights in the entire game, all three of which are basically cakewalks. It's all about conversation.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Interplay published, and had non-trivial creative input into the title. I believe the Doctors themselves listed collaboration with Interplay staff during development (the Black Ilse/Obsidian people) as one of the reasons that the game worked out so well despite being Bioware's first game.
It wasn't their first game though...
Anyway, no one claimed the game was developed by Black Isle, but it was published by them and they did have some input in it, so people include it.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Yup thats it! Thanks! Required reading for anyone new to the games. It will help them get the most out of the it.
I got frustrated in Baator and cheesed it. Turned TNO into a thief, loaded him up with charms, vanished and run through the enemies all the way to the loading screens.