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[Zeliard]

While this is true the problem with starting PS:T first is that i will set your expectations for things in BG2. i was terribly disappointed that BG2 had very little (almost none) interactivity in dialogue.

A lot of stuff becomes disappointing after playing Torment

But seriously, they are fairly different games. While story is important in both, BG2 puts a lot more prominence on combat while Torment focuses almost entirely on the storyline of the Nameless One and his small group of party members, as well as the setting, and it's very text-heavy. The aesthetics are very strong but in many ways it's reminiscent of classic text adventures. I would describe BG2 as a sort of middle-ground between the combat-heavy Icewind Dale games and the story-heavy PS:T.

Both BG2 and PS:T are great as far as memorable characterization, and I think that's where they share the most in common, outside of both being IE AD&D games.

 

[water_wendi]

A lot of stuff becomes disappointing after playing Torment

But seriously, they are fairly different games. While story is important in both, BG2 puts a lot more prominence on combat while Torment focuses almost entirely on the storyline of the Nameless One and his small group of party members, as well as the setting, and it's very text-heavy. The aesthetics are very strong but in many ways it's reminiscent of classic text adventures. I would describe BG2 as a sort of middle-ground between the combat-heavy Icewind Dale games and the story-heavy PS:T.

Both BG2 and PS:T are great as far as memorable characterization, and I think that's where they share the most in common, outside of both being IE AD&D games.

Agreed.

Has there ever been a challenge thread for a wrpg? It seems they are always for jrpgs. Could help the wait to 2014. Say from Fallout to NWN 2?

 

[Rad-]

While this is true the problem with starting PS:T first is that i will set your expectations for things in BG2. i was terribly disappointed that BG2 had very little (almost none) interactivity in dialogue.

You could say the same with starting BG2 first and then being terribly disappointed with PST's gameplay.

I don't think it really matters which one you start first. If you feel like playing something very writing heavy, go with PST. If you want a mix of writing and gameplay, go with BG2.

 

[dude]

Less than 1k Facebook likes away now. Boy oh Boy

 

[Anno]

Back in the day I played ToEE, IWD and a couple other IE games but ever BG1 or 2. I think I'd like to start with 1 to see the whole story. If I download it from GOG should I be good to go out of the box? Or are there any must have mods?

 

[Perkel]

Well, most people find BG2 easier because of the familiar world and the fact that the game is simply much more polished and rounded. The combat in PS:T is quite boring compared to BG2. But yeah - PS:T could also be a good point to start. Really depends on the person.
But you do bring a good point - reading the manual to familiarize yourself with some of the basics of D&D will really help you understand the mechanics better. Know what attributes need to be lower and which higher, know what THAC0 means and these sort of things. The original BG2 manual was pretty excellent in getting you up to speed, I don't know what current versions of the game ship with, but I think there's a digital version in the game folder.
And Fallout... i personally found harder to get into, but maybe it's just me?

EDIT: Oh, fuck, I forgot about ToEE and MotB. Play those as well after you're done with the classics... You might want to bump BG1 or Fallout 1 a bit further back. Though by then if might be 2014 already!

PST is not a good start. It's clunky, fight system never really works like intended to and world is unfamiliar and strange. You need some IE background to experience it.

Meanwhile BG2 is best game to start IE games or RPG gengre in general. Whole game is just polished and most of design is user-friendly. You know always what to do next and when you want some deeper experience you start doing those sidequests.

As of list for begginer i would say:

BG2 > ID1 > Fallout 2 > ID2 > Fallout 1> PST > ToEE = Arcanum =BG1

 

[water_wendi]

You could say the same with starting BG2 first and then being terribly disappointed with PST's gameplay.

Actually i couldnt. BG2s combat is better but not by much. Its not like BG2s combat is some stellar pinnacle of the genre. Its serviceable and thats about it. Where BG2 shines is the exploration and its scope. PS:Ts combat is fine imo but its not the focus of the game and thats made apparent from near the start. The "combat" would be better i think if there were more unique options for STR/DEX/CON characters to do like there is for WIS/INT/CHA characters.

Also PS:Ts gameplay is the dialogue and questing. Combat does not solely equate gameplay.

Back in the day I played ToEE, IWD and a couple other IE games but ever BG1 or 2. I think I'd like to start with 1 to see the whole story. If I download it from GOG should I be good to go out of the box? Or are there any must have mods?

There is a mod where you import the assets of BG1 into the BG2 engine. The main difference is the higher resolution.

 

[Velinos]

I was going to wait and see if the game was any good when it came out, but after yesterday's update I said screw it and donated. I really should go back and finish BG2 and PS:T. I don't know if it is possible for this game to live up to all the hype it is getting, but at least I'll get a free t-shirt out of it.

 

[Alexios]

I love the combat in those games, coupled with the encounter design it's intense, challenging and rewarding, it's crazy to hear it described as just serviceable... And yeah, it's utterly horrible and off putting in PS:T. And the game's beginner unfriendly in other ways like the lack of details in the journal which means you hear about what item is useful for what in a dialogue but never get to see it written elsewhere again, the journal just describing your main goal, like find this guy, it gets hard to keep track of portal keys and all sorts of shit like that, not to mention near impossible to get back to after a break. It's not at all more beginner friendly imo since you also need to explain the D&D basics and tell people to basically ignore combat and put all their points in the dialogue skills etc, so you might as well just explain a few basics to get them started with another IE game instead.

And yeah I'll again mention BGI is fine to start with if you use the mod that makes it play in the BGII engine (Tutu, or another mod that also merges it with BGII as one game, but I couldn't get that to work for me) since it's about as user friendly and polished then and while still worse than BGII it's the main chance for it to be at its best since it becomes obsolete in other ways after BGII.

But yeah, IE games' combat except for PST and IWDII is some of the best in the genre (excluding tactics games and stuff maybe, in a proper CRPG environment and stuff), way better than even modern games like Dragon Age, NWN2, or Bethesda's action stuff.

 

[Rad-]

Actually i couldnt. BG2s combat is better but not by much. Its not like BG2s combat is some stellar pinnacle of the genre. Its serviceable and thats about it. Where BG2 shines is the exploration and its scope. PS:Ts combat is fine imo but its not the focus of the game and thats made apparent from near the start. The "combat" would be better i think if there were more unique options for STR/DEX/CON characters to do like there is for WIS/INT/CHA characters.

Well I don't remember the last time I have disagreed this much. I think fighting in BG2 is one of the best in the genre and in PST it's probably the worst in the genre. But opinions.

 

[Zeliard]

world is unfamiliar and strange.

How's that a downside to the newcomer? That's the best part of the game, when you go into it having no idea what Planescape is. It's a journey of discovery in an odd fantasy setting.

Nameless One has no f'in clue where he is either and similarly finds it all bizarre. You're constantly running into characters who have to explain to him what's going on and how it all works, and by extension, explain it to you.

 

[water_wendi]

Well I don't remember the last time I have disagreed this much. I think fighting in BG2 is one of the best in the genre and in PST it's probably the worst in the genre. But opinions.

im not saying BG2s combat is bad. Its just that for me its never struck me as the strongest thing.. this is mostly because of RTwP and the AD&D rules. IWD2 is more interesting but its still not something i would call excellent. TOEE is probably the best D&D combat in a game.. but again.. its mostly because of the implementation. AD&D/D&D is great for PnP and turn-based. Thankfully PEs combat will built from the ground up.

 

[Perkel]

Actually i couldnt. BG2s combat is better but not by much. Its not like BG2s combat is some stellar pinnacle of the genre. Its serviceable and thats about it. Where BG2 shines is the exploration and its scope. PS:Ts combat is fine imo but its not the focus of the game and thats made apparent from near the start. The "combat" would be better i think if there were more unique options for STR/DEX/CON characters to do like there is for WIS/INT/CHA characters.

Also PS:Ts gameplay is the dialogue and questing. Combat does not solely equate gameplay.


There is a mod where you import the assets of BG1 into the BG2 engine. The main difference is the higher resolution.

It's called BGT or TUTU but widescreen mod is other mod and not part of those two. BGT is superior imo.

it's fine for experienced D&D player but for newbie it is very very confusing. Not only on mechanical part with AC memoriazation resting and all D&D quirks but also on look. There are almost no normal weapons, npc don't wear armor, you can easly miss raise dead. I even after playing BG2 i didn't know that i can be a mage in PST. As it is wonderfull idea (mage training) it is confusing for a new player.

Even BG2 at first was confusing to me because i didn't play D&D games before and i didn't know what is AC and how it works. It took solid manual reading to know these things.

Even Str dex and con weren't that understandable. For example what is difference between 12str and 15 str when i fight with someone ? Answer : No diffrence. It's just to use better armor. But when you hit 16 it is giving something.

Same with dex and con.

 

[szaromir]

Baldur's Gate 2 lost a lot of BG1's charm by dropping the open world-ish aspect of the game. Exploration just isn't the same without it. The events in BG2 are more interesting, true, but there was some magic to BG1 when you left Candlekeep and the entire realm was open to you. It's as if the next main Elder Scrolls also had a level based progression through the story.

it's fine for experienced D&D player but for newbie it is very very confusing. Not only on mechanical part with AC memoriazation resting and all D&D quirks but also on look. There are almost no normal weapons, npc don't wear armor, you can easly miss raise dead. I even after playing BG2 i didn't know that i can be a mage in PST. As it is wonderfull idea (mage training) it is confusing for a new player.

Orly?

 

[Geeker]

upped my pledge to 70. 50 dollar tier and expansion pack. Add in the 20 dollars towards gaf inn and this is my most expensive game ever!

It is worth it though. My god at that screenshot, just what i want

 

[Durante]

Baldur's Gate 2 lost a lot of BG1's charm by dropping the open world-ish aspect of the game. Exploration just isn't the same without it. The events in BG2 are more interesting, true, but there was some magic to BG1 when you left Candlekeep and the entire realm was open to you.

It's not a very popular opinion, but I agree. That's also why I strongly disagree whenever people suggest skipping BG1. With the gameplay improvements afforded by importing it into the BG2 engine and some of the community tweaks, BG1 is well worth experiencing. And, in my opinion, just as good as BG2, though their strengths lie in different areas.

I also strongly disagree with playing BG2 first, since it lessens the experience of both games, and I think both should be played. Also, by virtue of starting at level 1, BG1 introduces skills and spells more gradually.

 

[SerRodrik]

So, in short, my recommended order:
BG2 -> PS:T -> either Fallout 2 or IWD -> Fallout 1 or IWD 2 -> BG1 -> Arcanum.

Wow, this really drives the point home, because the only game on there that I've played is Arcanum (which I'm currently in the process of replaying, since I never beat it). I need to get on that. I own the Fallout collection, so that'll probably be my next stop.

that casters need to memorize spells in their spell books and then use them as consumables per day (and can memorize the same spell more than once in the available slots if you want to use it more)

I thought this idea was weird and dumb for a long time, until I played Dark Souls, which used a similar system. Now I think I get it a lot better.

 

[Zeliard]

BG1 definitely has its strengths. Play both successively for the full experience.

 

[water_wendi]

It's not a very popular opinion, but I agree. That's also why I strongly disagree whenever people suggest skipping BG1. With the gameplay improvements afforded by importing it into the BG2 engine and some of the community tweaks, BG1 is well worth experiencing. And, in my opinion, just as good as BG2, though their strengths lie in different areas.

i completely agree. Exploring the map.. finding a new place to go.. uncovering the zone.. good stuff.

 

[Perkel]

Orly?

You missed raise dead ? Damn...

 

[Perkel]

Wow, this really drives the point home, because the only game on there that I've played is Arcanum (which I'm currently in the process of replaying, since I never beat it). I need to get on that. I own the Fallout collection, so that'll probably be my next stop.



I thought this idea was weird and dumb for a long time, until I played Dark Souls, which used a similar system. Now I think I get it a lot better.

Damn you just don't know how would i want to switch places with you. Experiencing BG2 or PST for first time was like magic

Baldur's Gate 2 lost a lot of BG1's charm by dropping the open world-ish aspect of the game. Exploration just isn't the same without it. The events in BG2 are more interesting, true, but there was some magic to BG1 when you left Candlekeep and the entire realm was open to you. It's as if the next main Elder Scrolls also had a level based progression through the story.

Exploration was fun but evenless maps weren't so fun. You had to explore whole map just walking from A to B to find something worthwhile. But it was fun when you found something.

 

[szaromir]

You missed raise dead ? Damn...

No no, I didn't. I'm just wondering why you say it's easy to miss those when the game explicitly tells you about ability to raise dead companions 3 times a day and a number of NPCs offer switching classes.
I do agree Baldur's Gate is the best introduction to AD&D games, though I also had a retail edition with a 200 pages long manual to explain everything.

Exploration was fun but evenless maps weren't so fun. You had to explore whole map just walking from A to B to find something worthwhile. But it was fun when you found something.

Well the point of exploration should be that not everything is rewarding, so when you find something noteworthy it feels really good.

 

[Llyranor]

Okay, so we started with 3 levels of Endless Paths. 20k likes is a lock on FB, so 4. We're at 58k+ pledges, so that's 3 more = 7. 60k is doable, I think. 8 lvls of dungeon-crawling goodness, yes please.

 

[Zeliard]

Okay, so we started with 3 levels of Endless Paths. 20k likes is a lock on FB, so 4. We're at 58k+ pledges, so that's 3 more = 7. 60k is doable, I think. 8 lvls of dungeon-crawling goodness, yes please.

8-layer dungeon + the second city.

Game will be massive. It has to happen.

It will be a crushing disappointment if they can't find a way to scrounge up the money for that second city. I don't think it necessarily has to hit the $3.5 mill amount by the end of this pledge drive, as they can just offer payments through Paypal afterwards and possibly make it up there.

But it may still depend on how much they end up with exactly, in order to start budgeting things and get a start on it. If it finishes at something like $3.2 million we may be in trouble.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

8-layer dungeon + the second city.

If it finishes at something like $3.2 million we may be in trouble.

Yeah, since that kind of end result almost seems pretty likely (ending somewhere between 3 and 3.5 million) I wonder if they shouldn't have some stretch goal in between. Not sure what, but something in case it becomes clear towards the end if it won't get to $3.5 million then you have something so that people still feel compelled to up their pledges or fund it.

But hopefully it gets to $3.5 million.

 

[Llyranor]

3.5mill *has* to happen. I'm tempted to up my pledge to 1k.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Well the point of exploration should be that not everything is rewarding, so when you find something noteworthy it feels really good.

The problem I had with BG1 was nothing I found ever felt noteworthy, so I'm somewhat glad you're saying they dropped that for 2!

 

[kswiston]

I think today is already tracking higher than yesterday at this time. Hopefully today's update is good. $100k for the day is a lock at this point, but we could use at least $150k if we want to be on track for that second city when the campaign ends.

 

[SerRodrik]

I think today is already tracking higher than yesterday at this time. Hopefully today's update is good. $100k for the day is a lock at this point, but we could use at least $150k if we want to be on track for that second city when the campaign ends.

We've also almost matched yesterdays backer total already. The screenshot and final stretch goals couldn't have been timed better, they seem to have kickstarted (har) the final push.

 

[Violet_0]

3.5mill *has* to happen. I'm tempted to up my pledge to 1k.

become an NPC!

 

[szaromir]

Over $170k in the 23 hours since the screenshot was posted. ~$650k till the final goal is hit, IMO doable.

 

[TheFightingFish]

im not saying BG2s combat is bad. Its just that for me its never struck me as the strongest thing.. this is mostly because of RTwP and the AD&D rules. IWD2 is more interesting but its still not something i would call excellent. TOEE is probably the best D&D combat in a game.. but again.. its mostly because of the implementation. AD&D/D&D is great for PnP and turn-based. Thankfully PEs combat will built from the ground up.

I'll also put myself on the list of saying that BG2's combat was not a big selling point for me. The world and story was much more an important part of that game. Like you I felt that many of the AD&D concepts really didn't translate to the video game world as well. This might be heresy for some, but I actually liked the combat engine of Dragon Age: Origins much better than BGII. I felt that it fit the realm of games much better.

Also the bigger combat encounters always seemed very "quicksave" based. As in to get the info to actually have effective combat you had to just jump into it a few times and die to get an idea of the enemies that were there and prepare correctly. And I've always disliked games that treat save / restore as a first class combat mechanic. BGII just never left like it had enough room to improvise and save things with smart thinking if a combat encounter started to go too sideways.

 

[Llyranor]

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

 

[Perkel]

Whoa they added whole page for espaniol and polish language:

http://eternity.obsidian.net/pl/

And it's not ponglish it's proper classy one. Looks like some fan from poland helped them.

It is very good idea for next kickstarters in my opinion.

 

[EndcatOmega]

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

Your multiple sacrifices will be honoured!

 

[Sentenza]

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

Can't think of a more prestigious status as cameo in a game: the asshole everyone wants to kill.

 

[Dennis]

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

Like a boss!

Tell us when you have decided on the name for the NPC.

You know.....so we can shake your hand when we meet you in-game...... .....

 

[Perkel]

$2,800,000

Looks like it started

They should totally do video with Ziets !

 

[Llyranor]

I'll want to stick with Llyranor. I'm pretty sure JE Sawyer has an ax to grind with me anyway, hehehe.

 

[Perkel]

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

You are the hero !

 

[adixon]

Feargus just said 55k in paypal on the kickstarter comments. At this rate paypal will probably finish around 100k

 

[deleted]

Alright I'm in. Its my second Kickstarter after Double Fine's Adventure.
The Screenshot did it in the end, I want to see what Obsidian can do when they work on their own terms.

 

[Taruranto]

The screenshot is evolving!

... I did it. I can't believe I did that. Lots of people are going to want to kill me in-game now.

Most murdered neogaf member in an Obsidian game. That's an honor!

 

[Llyranor]

Hahaha

There's a live stream of Adam Brennecke (doing nothing?) http://www.ustream.tv/channel/project-eternity-live-stream

 

[adixon]

Hahaha

There's a live stream of Adam Brennecke (doing nothing?) http://www.ustream.tv/channel/project-eternity-live-stream

server stress test time!

 

[Perkel]

Hahaha

There's a live stream of Adam Brennecke (doing nothing?) http://www.ustream.tv/channel/project-eternity-live-stream

I am watching it:

Title:

Adam Brennecke, Project Manager at Obsidian Entertainment, is currently working on Project Eternity

edit:

Looks like he is answering questions.

edit:

I asked:
"Perkel: Does Ziets know he will be incuded ?"

he:
"laugh"

 

[EndcatOmega]

I'm sitting here watching an Obsidian employee talk about his Battletoads hat.

Where did I go wrong in life?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

 

[Perkel]

I'm sitting here watching an Obsidian employee talk about his Battletoads hat.

Where did I go wrong in life?

 

[Perkel]

Update #21 - 5 days left!


Everyone here at Obsidian is thrilled that the feedback to the first look at Project Eternity was so overwhelmingly positive. Thank you for all the encouragement - It really means a lot to our artists and the rest of the team. The outpouring of support and donations over the last day has been amazing. Thank you!

Over the next five days we have a lot of fun things planned to wrap up the Kickstarter campaign. First, crowdfunding and Kickstarter has allowed us to open up our doors to you, literally. Today you can spend a few hours with me at the Obsidian Office, and you will get an inside look into a development studio. Check out what an atypical day is for me at the office (running the Kickstarter is pretty atypical for a game developer). I promise to wear pants! We plan on doing more of these live events at the office during production.

Tomorrow I plan on playing Icewind Dale II by Interplay and Black Isle Studios. Icewind Dale II was the last Infinity Engine game to be released a decade ago in 2002. Before production starts on Project Eternity, I want to revisit some of the magic that Project Eternity aims to bring back. Join the stream and have some fun! Special Obsidian guest developers will join in on the fun, and you can heckle me while I try to make my way out of Targos and through the Dale to Kuldahar. How long will I play? 8 Hours? 12 Hours? 20 Hours? Longer? Watch and find out.

Be sure to check out tomorrow's update with Tim Cain. He is going to answer more of your questions in a special video update.

Here's the rest of the scheduled events for the next 5 days:

Friday, October 12

11:00am PDT - Inside look at a not so typical day with Adam Brennecke - UStream.
3:00pm PDT - PC Gamer Live Chat with the Project Eternity Team - PC Gamer.
Saturday, October 13

10:00am PDT - Adam plays Icewind Dale II all day - UStream.
Monday, October 15

10:00am PDT - Reddit AMA with the Project Eternity Team - Reddit.
5:00pm PDT - Game night at Obsidian. Watch us play D&D at the studio! - UStream.
Tuesday, October 16

12:00pm PDT - The final countdown starts at the Obsidian Office - UStream.
6:00pm PDT - The Project Eternity Kickstarter ends!
Updates to the schedule will be sent via Twitter, Facebook, and posted to our forums.

New Novella Audio Book Reward and Add-on

We have a new digital add-on for everyone. For an add-on of $20 you will receive the digital Audio Book of the Project Eternity Novella by Chris Avellone narrated by a professional voice actor. If you already pledged at the $165 tier and above you will receive it for free!

Two Stretch Goals Hit and The Endless Paths is Larger

We've hit the $2.7M stretch goal, which means Paladins and Chanters are added to the game, and I'm happy to say we just hit the $2.8M stretch goal in record time! George Ziets will be joining the team! The team is very excited to have the opportunity to work with George again.

One more level has been added to The Endless Paths because of your help. The depths grow deeper by the day, and we are getting very close to 20,000 likes and 60,000 backers. 2 more levels incoming! Our next Facebook goal is to hit 40,000 likes - if we can reach that milestone it means we will add one more level to the dungeon! How low can we go?


And last but not least, I leave you with a new concept art piece of Forton the monk.


Thanks, and see you on the live stream!

Update by Adam Brennecke

FORUMS: Join the discussion on Update #21!

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