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[Half and half]

Out of curiosity, do they have a review for the Sony KDL-XX550A or the Panasonic TC-LXXE60?

Will the Sony Bravia KDL-60R550A and Panasonic Viera TC-LXXE60 TC-L42E60 reviews work?

Sony Bravia KDL-60R550A
This is labeled as a "best buy"
68/100
3D Performance - Fair
Remote Ease of Use - Very Good
Energy cost/yr($) - 31
Viewing Angle - Good
On-Screen menu easy of use - Very Good
HD Picture Quality - Excellent
Sound Quality - Very Good
Versatility - Very Good

High points are image detail, very good color accuracy, very good sound quality, low ghosting in 3D mode.

Low points are slight backlight non-uniformity, limited viewing angle, 3d ghosting varies with vertical viewing angle, and 3d image resolution is half 1080 HD.

Panasonic Viera TC-L42E60
This is labled as "recommended"
66/100
Remote Ease of Use - Very Good
Energy cost/yr($) - 11
Viewing Angle - Good
On-Screen menu easy of use - Very Good
HD Picture Quality - Excellent
Sound Quality - Good
Versatility - Very Good

High points are image detail, color accuracy, and near-matte-like screen reduces reflections.

Low points are slight backlight non-uniformity and limited viewing angle.

Hmmm, with those scores maybe I should check them out in-store as well.

 

[Canon]

The S60 is a good choice too, some people here bought one. It's basically just worse in a light environment due to not having a filter.

How is the S60 for SD content? Like the Wii.

I like the W802A's handling of that content.

 

[dmr87]

How is the S60 for SD content? Like the Wii.

I like the W802A's handling of that content.

I don't know about the S60 specifically but Plasma TVs in general are good at handling SD content.

 

[garath]

Will the Sony Bravia KDL-60R550A and Panasonic Viera TC-LXXE60 TC-L42E60 reviews work?

Sony Bravia KDL-60R550A
This is labeled as a "best buy"
68/100
3D Performance - Fair
Remote Ease of Use - Very Good
Energy cost/yr($) - 31
Viewing Angle - Good
On-Screen menu easy of use - Very Good
HD Picture Quality - Excellent
Sound Quality - Very Good
Versatility - Very Good

High points are image detail, very good color accuracy, very good sound quality, low ghosting in 3D mode.

Low points are slight backlight non-uniformity, limited viewing angle, 3d ghosting varies with vertical viewing angle, and 3d image resolution is half 1080 HD.

Panasonic Viera TC-L42E60
This is labled as "recommended"
66/100
Remote Ease of Use - Very Good
Energy cost/yr($) - 11
Viewing Angle - Good
On-Screen menu easy of use - Very Good
HD Picture Quality - Excellent
Sound Quality - Good
Versatility - Very Good

High points are image detail, color accuracy, and near-matte-like screen reduces reflections.

Low points are slight backlight non-uniformity and limited viewing angle.

Hmmm, with those scores maybe I should check them out in-store as well.

Great reviews. Thanks for looking that up!

I went to best buy tonight and looked at all of them. I hate the store setting but you can look at things like viewing angle, glare, and general contrast/black levels.

I really liked the Panasonic e60. The 58" was a great size. The colors looked good for a store and I really didn't see many problems with the viewing angles. Seemed pretty norm for a LCD.

The Samsung screens were a lot more glossy. Probably not as good of a fit for me.

I liked the Sony too but the 60" was 450 bucks more than the Panasonic 58". I just don't think it is worth the extra money. If they were within 100 or so it would be a no brained. But for that money nah.

The one that still gives me fits is the st60. Even uncalibrated in the store you can tell its a fantastic picture. The anti glare screen definitely does some work but its still hugely reflective. If the latency really is only 45 or so that's well within the realm of OK for a casual console gamer IMO. But the price is a little more prohibitive. The 55" is 1350.

I think it's coming down to value for me. The Panasonic e60 gives me a huge screen for under 1000, great viewing in bright situations, no threat of IR from the kids and games and still looks pretty damn good. If the Sony 550a was 1200 or less I would probably do that. Or if the s60 60" had the anti glare filter. Or the st60 60" was under 1300. Bunch of ifs.

 

[Doodis]

The one that still gives me fits is the st60. Even uncalibrated in the store you can tell its a fantastic picture. The anti glare screen definitely does some work but its still hugely reflective. If the latency really is only 45 or so that's well within the realm of OK for a casual console gamer IMO. But the price is a little more prohibitive. The 55" is 1350.

The ST60 input lag is nearly double that at 75ms. It's second from the bottom of the list in that link. I wouldn't recommend it for gaming.

 

[garath]

The ST60 input lag is nearly double that at 75ms. It's second from the bottom of the list in that link. I wouldn't recommend it for gaming.

Yeah. That's a can of worms that I'm not educated enough to have much of an opinion on. There's quite the thread on avsforum though about the Leo bosnard method not being accurate for plasmas and the latency is close to half what it shows.

 

[Joeki11a]

Do you guys care about 3D?

 

[Joeki11a]

I'd go plasma over anything else when it comes to gaming/sports watching.

Projector's are also a good way to be immersed in games. Best is to just envelope yourself in front of a giant 120 inch+ screen with surround sound. Projector's are cheap too, 3D ready one's for $850 + FS on amazon.

threw this one up on a barren white wall. tons of ambient light and the white walls and light scatter but was still able to get decent picture quality out of the projector. That monitor to the right is 24 inch.

Woah

Imagine porn in that haha

 

[Canon]

Do you guys care about 3D?

It looks really good but does cause eye strain.

 

[Master assassian]

I think that Samsung LED is more than enough for the next generation.
I dont like to chang it.

 

[dmr87]

Do you guys care about 3D?

No, but it's included with most TVs and I would easily take it out if I could get a better price. My priorities are '2D' Blu-Ray PQ and then gaming.

 

[Nerfon]

Still happy with my PS63C7000 plasma and it's 13ms input lag with game mode

 

[Jack cw]

I think that Samsung LED is more than enough for the next generation.
I dont like to chang it.

I just bought an UN55f8000 and its amazing. Managed to get the input lag down to 40ms thanks to the new firmware. Still a bit too high but acceptable. The new quad cores are really improving the picture quality. After a bit of calibration I think the image quality is pretty comparable to the latest panasonic plasmas.

 

[Darklor01]

How can black be black on a LED panel, especially when compared to a plasma?

I have the Samsung 60" UNF7100 LCD. Fix settings from factory default, and the blacks are unbelievably black. Black hole black. The whites can be blinding white if you have backlight a hair too high.

 

[Doodis]

No, but it's included with most TVs and I would easily take it out if I could get a better price. My priorities are '2D' Blu-Ray PQ and then gaming.

I just bought the Panasonic S64 for this very reason. No 3D, great price.

 

[T.O.P]

Just ordered a Sony W905A 55"


Can't wait to try it out

 

[Ol No Bones]

4K OLED

Just wait a couple of years for it to be cheap

Define cheap. It's at least 5 years from being reasonably affordable. Have you seen the prices of 4k TVs lately.

 

[IRAQcitizen]

LED SAMSUNG 65 "

with onkyo sr607



i doubt most people care about 3d, neither does sony/ microsoft anymore.

 

[garath]

Do you guys care about 3D?

Not a lick. Most of the TVs I'm looking at don't have it for reduced cost. Hard to find a higher end TV without it though.

 

[doomtrader]

I've got 50" Panasonic Plasma for almost two years.
I'm pretty sure it was great choice. The image is sharp and auto-improvement make even low quality movies to look good.

The only disadvantage is a power output which I think is 400W per hour, also during the night when there is pretty quiet and the volume is low you can hear the fans, but that's not a big deal.

 

[luca_29_bg]

From what I've read as far as gaming performance and input lag go, f7100>f8000>>>f8500. The 7100 seems to hover around 38-40 in testing with the 8k between 40 and 50 and the 8500 between 60 and 90. In terms of picture quality, the order would be reversed so it just depends on whether you want to sacrifice a little bit of pq for a better gaming experience. Fwiw I went with the 65" f7100 and it gets delivered tomorrow so I'll be sure to type up some impressions once I get it on the wall and calibrated

Thanks, i would buy an ue55f7000 and in the reviews i have read the difference between ue55f7000 and ue558000 are minimal from quality point of view. I live in italy, F7100 is american version of F7000?

 

[Jack cw]

Just ordered a Sony W905A 55"
Can't wait to try it out

Nice mate!
I hope you get a panel with less DSE because its a great TV.

Thanks, i would buy an ue55f7000 and in the reviews i have read the difference between ue55f7000 and ue558000 are minimal from quality point of view. I live in italy, F7100 is american version of F7000?

There are a few differences:
- F7000 has 800Hz while the other two have 1000Hz
- F8000 has a black bezel
- F8500 back is made out of metal

I have bought the EU version UE55F8090 and its a wonderful TV both in design and picture quality. The input lag is still around 40 ms which is ok, but not very good either.

 

[shinjijai]

is panasonic having supply issues with the tcp60st60? i swear it's sold out everywhere online (in Canada at least).

 

[garath]

is panasonic having supply issues with the tcp60st60? i swear it's sold out everywhere online (in Canada at least).

Sold out a lot in the US too

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Yeah. That's a can of worms that I'm not educated enough to have much of an opinion on. There's quite the thread on avsforum though about the Leo bosnard method not being accurate for plasmas and the latency is close to half what it shows.

The input latency 'error' of plasma should be less than 16ms. Total systematic error in excess of 16ms (one frame) would show up in LCD tests as well as plasma tests, as it would be completely independent of display type. Anyone telling you that it's half of what leo bodnar shows is either trying to convince you of something thats not true, doesn't understand how the leo bodnar test works, or both.

If the tests say 75ms, then it might be closer to 70 or mayyybe even 60 (unlikely). But it is definitely not 50.

 

[garath]

The input latency 'error' of plasma should be less than 16ms. Total systematic error in excess of 16ms (one frame) would show up in LCD tests as well as plasma tests, as it would be completely independent of display type. Anyone telling you that it's half of what leo bodnar shows is either trying to convince you of something thats not true, doesn't understand how the leo bodnar test works, or both.

If the tests say 75ms, then it might be closer to 70 or mayyybe even 60 (unlikely). But it is definitely not 50.

Cool. I appreciate that. I started down the rabbit hole of that thread and pulled out. There's a whole lot of misinformation floating around.

The only thing that's certain is the st60 does not have good input lag Is it tolerable? I guess it would depend on your personal level of tolerance for it.

Even playing consoles as casually as I do (PC gaming for me), I think 50ms is about the max I could tolerate.

Makes the S60 look a lot better though. Man I wish it had the anti-glare screen.

 

[DarkLinkage]

What's a good 32 inch TV for gaming? Are LCD/LED TVs good enough? I ask this because people say Plasma is better, but I don't know the reason why.

I can't go any bigger than 32 inches since it wont fit within the setup I have, but I'm fairly close to the TV anyway so I don't mind.

 

[mrback]

I ended going down the projector route after problems with a panasonic plasma, EPSONEH-TW6100W. great for movies & gaming. cant wait to get the ps4/Xbone rocking on there. my screen is equivalent to a 90" screen. Great stuff!

 

[dr guildo]

Were you planning on using it for gaming? I've heard input lag is an issue on that set.

See by yourself :
Panasonic ST60 Input Lag Killzone 3
For me, it's widely acceptable !

The ST60 input lag is nearly double that at 75ms. It's second from the bottom of the list in that link. I wouldn't recommend it for gaming.

HDTVtest, the n°1 site for hdtv measurement, has recorded an input lag of 47ms :

We tried everything we could to reduce the TX-P42ST60′s lag, including cycling through picture modes, enabling/disabling “1080p Pixel Direct”, changing the “HDMI Content Type” mode… but 47ms was the lowest number we could get. This by no means makes games unplayable, but the buttery-smooth, blink and you’ll miss it responsiveness of the ST50 is not here.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st60-201303312779.htm

 

[garath]

See for yourself :
Panasonic ST60 Input Lag Killzone 3
For me, it's widely acceptable !

And HDTVtest, the n°1 site for hdtv measurement, has recorded an input lag of 47ms :


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st60-201303312779.htm

That actually looks kinda rough in that youtube video. The response is almost double the ST30. He fires and there is a noticeable pause before the game registers the fire. It would make playing the game feel very sluggish.

I wonder how HDTVtest was able to get it down that low though. 50ms isn't terrible. Average at worst. But no other review site was able to get it that low. Going to read that article.

edit: Ok.. selective quoting for the win. Here's the full statement:

we clocked the TXP42ST60B in as lagging by anywhere between 47ms and 62ms, using the high-speed camera measurement method. Enlisting the more concrete services of the Leo Bodnar Lag Tester, the measurement came out as 74.5ms (it also clocks our old ST50 in at about 47ms, the large discrepancy between this result and our camera method being something we have some theories about, but are still investigating).

So the camera method of tracking input lag showed between 47ms and 62ms. They don't offer any sort of charts or anything so it's definitely a misnomer to say that they clocked it at 47ms. That's like looking at a game's FPS and because you hit 145 peak claiming it's 145 fps. They get the same results that the other sites do with the Leo Bodnar tester (74.5ms) and most likely we're looking at 55-60ms via the camera method.

No real revelations here. The set is sluggish.

 

[Zabojnik]

How's the input lag on the pricier Panny plasmas, GT60, VT60?

 

[shinjijai]

How's the input lag on the pricer Panny plasmas, GT60, VT60?

I think both of them were rated at 23ms (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag).

I wish the S60 or the S64 had 24p, then I wouldn't have to go for the ST60 for judder free films =(.

 

[TheKingOfPain]

How's the input lag on the pricier Panny plasmas, GT60, VT60?

23ms for both models, IIRC.

 

[Zabojnik]

I think both of them were rated at 23ms (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag).

I wish the S60 or the S64 had 24p, then I wouldn't have to go for the ST60 for judder free films =(.

Thanks. 23ms is good enough for me. Guess I'll go with the GT60 over the ST60.

I wonder how much input lag my old Sony KDL-40V2000 has in comparison ...

 

[OSHAN]

Received my S60 yesterday. Extremely happy with the picture for the price. It was 1000 on Amazon.

 

[dmr87]

I just bought the Panasonic S64 for this very reason. No 3D, great price.

Yea, they aren't available in Europe afaik. Already have a VT on the way, GT is a good choice too but it's only available in 42 and 50 here, which is too small.

 

[CHC]

To those who have an purely desktop setup, can anyone recommend a 1080p screen in the 22-24 inch range that has good scaling capabilities for PS3? I have a Toshiba 24L4200U hooked up as a monitor and TV, and while the quality is pretty good for PC gaming, it really does not pair well with PS3 - anything non-native looks blurry and washed out.

I have heard the Dell Ultrasharps have good upscaling / interpolation performance for sub 1080 signals- anyone have first hand experience or a good recommendation for a split monitor / PS3 TV??

 

[CREMSteve]

That actually looks kinda rough in that youtube video. The response is almost double the ST30. He fires and there is a noticeable pause before the game registers the fire. It would make playing the game feel very sluggish.

I wonder how HDTVtest was able to get it down that low though. 50ms isn't terrible. Average at worst. But no other review site was able to get it that low. Going to read that article.

edit: Ok.. selective quoting for the win. Here's the full statement:



So the camera method of tracking input lag showed between 47ms and 62ms. They don't offer any sort of charts or anything so it's definitely a misnomer to say that they clocked it at 47ms. That's like looking at a game's FPS and because you hit 145 peak claiming it's 145 fps. They get the same results that the other sites do with the Leo Bodnar tester (74.5ms) and most likely we're looking at 55-60ms via the camera method.

No real revelations here. The set is sluggish.

WTF it looks exactly the same to me.

 

[Azzurri]

I'm torn, I plan on moving very soon, and leaving my old TV at home. I really want a 4k TV, but I don't really feel like blowing 3k+ when the price will drop probably by next fall and a better version will be out.

 

[shinjijai]

I'm torn, I plan on moving very soon, and leaving my old TV at home. I really want a 4k TV, but I don't really feel like blowing 3k+ when the price will drop probably by next fall and a better version will be out.

until there's a good way to deliever 4k content, i don't think you should worry about 4k at all.

 

[garath]

WTF it looks exactly the same to me.

Really? Look around :35 where he's scoped in. Watch the bounce of the iron sights. It's like watching the wave in a stadium.

Then just look at the ST60 and look how long it takes to register the audible trigger click on the controller. That's a noticeable delay.

Obviously we're not talking about seconds. We're talking about milliseconds. But you can feel that kind of delay in a game.

 

[Half and half]

I really liked the Panasonic e60. The 58" was a great size. The colors looked good for a store and I really didn't see many problems with the viewing angles. Seemed pretty norm for a LCD.

I just checked out the Panasonic as well. It looked fine to me when compared to the Samsung F6300. I also didn't see any issues with viewing angle.

I feel that the Samsung has a much better menu interface, but not enough to justify the cost difference. $1000 for a 58" is a pretty sweet deal compared to the other tvs I've been looking at. Might even go up to 65" with these prices. I just need to get the missus to sign off on it and I'm picking it up...unless I change my mind again (lol)

Great recommendation. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[FairXchange]

Received my S60 yesterday. Extremely happy with the picture for the price. It was 1000 on Amazon.

Great buy Oshan, I've got the 50S60 myself and am consistently impressed with just how good the screen performs, and for the price it's just perfect.

 

[Timeaisis]

Just got a Samsung 40" 120hz LED 3D, the non-smart variety for around $500. Honestly, I really like it so far. The comments about input lag and samsung tvs on here almost made me think twice, but I haven't noticed any issues yet. Great picture for the price.

 

[garath]

I just checked out the Panasonic as well. It looked fine to me when compared to the Samsung F6300. I also didn't see any issues with viewing angle.

I feel that the Samsung has a much better menu interface, but not enough to justify the cost difference. $1000 for a 58" is a pretty sweet deal compared to the other tvs I've been looking at. Might even go up to 65" with these prices. I just need to get the missus to sign off on it and I'm picking it up...unless I change my mind again (lol)

Great recommendation. Thanks for bringing it up.

Happy to share. I've been sweating this purchase for 2 weeks now. I think I'm starting to slightly go insane.

If I was single and my priorities were like they were in my 20s, I would probably get the $2700 Panasonic VT60 65" and put it in a room with blackout curtains and be done with it. Buuuut a wife and kids change the priorities a little bit and I find myself looking for a "budget" bigscreen. For me I have 2 priorities. Size and image quality. The Samsung definitely has a better interface and it has a few more neat features but not worth the extra money.

Right now I'm 90% going for the Panasonic 58E60.

 

[JRW]

I'd easily recommend Plasma, Better motion resolution than LCD which is a big plus with gaming (especially 60fps) and then there's the superior viewing angles & black levels.

I've been gaming on Plasma since 2007 and it's been great, It's the closest technology to a CRT which is a good thing IMO.

 

[BRUTALBOWN]

I can't deal with the black levels on the w802a. So what about the S60? It's cheaper and has less input lag.

Spend loads of time calibrating the picture, you will get decent black levels but it needs work.

W8 has so many good features, get some games running 60fps on it and try out impulse mode! The W8 W9 are the only consumer tv's on the market that offer backlight strobing in game mode.

 

[garath]

I'd easily recommend Plasma, Better motion resolution than LCD which is a big plus with gaming (especially 60fps) and then there's the superior viewing angles & black levels.

I've been gaming on Plasma since 2007 and it's been great, It's the closest technology to a CRT which is a good thing IMO.

I really really wish the s60 series had the anti-glare filter the ST series does. Or that costco gets the 65" back in stock.

 

[Canon]

Spend loads of time calibrating the picture, you will get decent black levels but it needs work.

W8 has so many good features, get some games running 60fps on it and try out impulse mode! The W8 W9 are the only consumer tv's on the market that offer backlight strobing in game mode.

I can't use impulse mode, it bothers my eyes. I don't know what backlight strobing is.

Could you tell me the settings to get the MOST input lag? I want to see if I can tell the difference. So I can tell if I'll mind it on the ST60.

So on the w802, do I just enable everything on max? What kind of input lag would it have then?

 

[Lima]

So on the w802, do I just enable everything on max? What kind of input lag would it have then?

Even if you enable the highest setting motion interpolation you still have less lag than most other TV's out there. Goes up into the 30ms range.