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[Hawk269]

Good to know, perhaps I should sit on my hands until CES or another big drop on the X900. I'm really disappointed with the X850A announcements. I had hoped they would be the same as the X900 minus the speakers, but the active 3D was a huge disappointment. I do like the odd 3D content and everything I've read says the passive + 4K combo is the best. It would also be great if this works with the Nvidia EDID trick as 3D Vision games could look amazing. Hopefully we will get another 4K, passive, triluminos screen out of sony next year, bonus if it drops the speakers (don't have space) and a 60" iteration would be nice...

A user over at AvsForum says he was at a Store where they had the x850a and the x900a side by side and the x900a was a lot better. The screen on the 850a is also a matte screen and sometimes some screens with a matte vs. glass, the glass gives off a better picture. Also as you stated the x850a went with adaptive 3d.

I was not a big 3D movie watcher myself, but I did try it with the 900a (non 4k) which is adaptive and it was very good, then I also used 3d when I tried the Panasonic ZT60 and that was also very nice...but 3d with the 4k is just amazing. Avatar as well as the Avengers are just brilliant with 3d on the 4k set.

 

[Canon]

I got the S60 on sale, and its picture quality does blow away the Sony... except there are major problems with this set that I cannot ignore and might be deal breakers.

Take a look at these images. When I play my Wii on component, there's very distracting lines, it looks like an old VHS on an old TV. How do I fix this? I know it's hooked up properly.

Muramasa paused screen:

Wii prompt

The absolute worst offender is when it's on a black background

I refuse to believe that's normal. Must be something to wrong.

And here's the Panasonic menu to showcase dithering, which apparently is normal and I can deal with it... but I cannot deal with the Wii (component) issue.

If I can get this fixed, I'd recommend it for the price I paid ($700). Otherwise I wouldn't bother if it can't handle SD content without huge distracting crap on it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

All of you guys with the w900a are making me jealous. I wish it was just a few hundred cheaper. Almost tempted to wait for the holidays just to see if it catches a great sale. If I could snag it for $1500 I'd do so in a heartbeat.

edit: Man, I've been stressing a TV purchase for over a month now.

Now I'm contemplating the Sony 55" w802a. Gaming isn't my primary concern as I'm more of a PC gamer anyways but having a good response time is always a plus and the w802a is pretty feature rich. I imagine it has a better picture than the $500 less Panasonic 58" e60 I've been looking at even if it's not up to par with the w900a.

I was sooo close to getting the W900 but I saw it next to the ST60 and I just can't validate spending 1k more for a tv that doesn't look as good as the Plasma. If it was 1500 I would have bit.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I got the S60 on sale, and its picture quality does blow away the Sony... except there are major problems with this set that I cannot ignore and might be deal breakers.

Take a look at these images. When I play my Wii on component, there's very distracting lines, it looks like an old VHS on an old TV. How do I fix this? I know it's hooked up properly.

Muramasa paused screen:
http://i.imgur.com/b2h59UC.jpg[/]

Wii prompt
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ALFPyqel.jpg[/]

The absolute worst offender is when it's on a black background
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/oFejxNSl.jpg[/]

I refuse to believe that's normal. Must be something to wrong.

And here's the Panasonic menu to showcase dithering, which apparently is normal and I can deal with it... but I cannot deal with the Wii (component) issue.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Tyf9pqFl.jpg[/

If I can get this fixed, I'd recommend it for the price I paid ($700). Otherwise I wouldn't bother if it can't handle SD content without huge distracting crap on it.[/QUOTE]

Looks like the cable is at fault or the inputs are damage on the TV. Definitely not normal.

The last picture though, the dithering is normal & on all plasma TVs.

 

[coolasj19]

I've already decided I want the Sony KDL as my next TV, seeing as how input lag is something that can never ever be changed. Color and other factors can't either but, I can tweak them to my liking. And seeing as how I have Sony everything else, STR-DH520 Receiver, a pair of vintage wood Sony speakers that are older than I am, a nice Sony brand would make it all complete. The cheap price, 1080p, and 8" upgrade from my current TV ( that site literally 2 feet away from me ), are all massive boons.

 

[dmr87]

Guys how bad the input lag is on the Panasonic VT60? Is it a dealbreaker for gaming?

I was dead set on getting a Sony W900a, but the fact that it is only 55 inches is killing me...

I will be mostly watching movies/series and playing games.

I don't know which TV to get. The sony with the low input lag or the Pana with it's big screen and better picture??? HELP!

:-(

It's around 20ms, nothing to worry about. The PQ will blow you away, movies and games.

 

[Night Angel]

It's around 20ms, nothing to worry about. The PQ will blow you away, movies and games.

This. The ST60 is the one with awful input lag.

As for the S60 pics above, that is not normal, aside from the dithering. Get a replacement.

 

[apieceofstrange]

Guys how bad the input lag is on the Panasonic VT60? Is it a dealbreaker for gaming?

I was dead set on getting a Sony W900a, but the fact that it is only 55 inches is killing me...

I will be mostly watching movies/series and playing games.

I don't know which TV to get. The sony with the low input lag or the Pana with it's big screen and better picture??? HELP!

:-(

I spent the last couple weeks trying to decide between these same 2 tvs (w900a and VT60). The picture quality on the VT60 is in fact beautiful, but being that I was primarily looking to buy a set for gaming, the input lag and anxiety over IR ultimately pushed me towards the Sony. It kind of sucks that every set has downsides and you're forced to pick and choose. It's been driving me crazy for the past month and it's kind of relieving that I finally just decided on something, for better or worse.

I have also read about "ghosting" on plasmas when playing sub 60 fps games. I asked about this a few pages back, but I don't think anyone chimed in. Being that many next gen games are already confirmed to run at 30fps, shouldn't this be more of a concern or is it overblown?

 

[goomba]

It's annoying to see some great tv reccomendations with details on lag levels and performance and then find that as your in Australia the tv models are completly different so you can't go buy one that has been reccomended.

Any reccomendations of a low lag 32-40" , lcd-led available in Australia?

 

[Canon]

So it's defective? Ugh. Now I need to return 2 TVs and look like an idiot.

Also the text is purple on my S60 instead of black. What the? And I already have image retention.

 

[dmr87]

So it's defective? Ugh. Now I need to return 2 TVs and look like an idiot.

Also the text is purple on my S60 instead of black. What the? And I already have image retention.

Have you tried watching regular TV/DVD/Blu-Rays and look for the faults?

 

[Canon]

Have you tried watching regular TV/DVD/Blu-Rays and look for the faults?

I've played PS3 and hooked it up to my computer. Black text is blueish or purple, dithering is annoying, there's a buzz coming from the TV, and I got image retention.

Also it kind of bothers my eyes. It might be all the moving crap on the screen, I assume that's how plasma makes an image? If I look at an image that's mostly black but not quite, there's lots of stuff swirling around, nothing stays still.

So yeah the image quality if you stand 8 feet away is pretty great, but there's so many flaws. What sucks is my Sony has such mediocre black levels and viewing angles next to it but doesn't have these issues so I might be forced to stay with it.

Oh and W802A with reality creation ON has way better quality for SD content (aka Wii).

 

[dmr87]

I've played PS3 and hooked it up to my computer. Black text is blueish or purple, dithering is annoying, there's a buzz coming from the TV, and I got image retention.

The text color sounds like a faulty TV, but that's just me guessing. A wild theory, you don't have a subwoofer or something close to the TV? I know I could force a purple-ish color on my old CRT when it got too close. I have no idea if this is something tha affects modern display tech, just something that came up in my head.

Buzzing, Image retention and dithering are part of the Plasma tech. Buzzing is really only somewhat audiable on a full white or very bright image, that's from personal experience at least. I can hear it if I turn off all the sound but no chance that I'm able to hear it during a movie or a game.

Some people are also annoyed by the 'flickering', I compare it to looking at a low Hz CRT monitor, it's more noticable on a brighter image. I rarely notice it, don't think I've ever seen it during a Blu-Ray movie or a game.

And the dithering shouldn't be visable from a normal viewing distance. Image retention goes away, just mix up your content and use full screen when you can.

 

[Doodis]

So it's defective? Ugh. Now I need to return 2 TVs and look like an idiot.

Also the text is purple on my S60 instead of black. What the? And I already have image retention.

You're going to have image retention with a plasma no matter what, and it's worse earlier on. But, it's normal and not permanent. Just don't play a game for more than an hour or two for the first couple hundred hours of viewing. Watch regular TV content to work the pixels and make the retention go away.

I got the S64 a couple weeks ago and was worried about this, but it does go away after you watch other content.

And yes, those lines in your TV are not normal.

 

[Canon]

There's a subwoofer a couple feet away... didn't matter to any of my other monitors but I could try moving it.

 

[Canon]

So I disconnected the TV and moved it to a different power bar... and the problem seems to have diminished if not disappeared... but you be the judge.

But are these flickering green things at all times normal?

One more odd thing... the TV makes a clicking noise even when turned off. But whatever. If this is all normal, I might keep it.

 

[Haint]

So I disconnected the TV and moved it to a different power bar... and the problem seems to have diminished if not disappeared... but you be the judge.

But are these flickering green things at all times normal?

One more odd thing... the TV makes a clicking noise even when turned off. But whatever. If this is all normal, I might keep it.

The flickering green things are most likely activation noise/low level dithering. Try lowering the Brightness setting until they just disappear.

 

[Canon]

That helped quite a bit, thanks.

After (and if) I can fix any remaining issues, I would definitely say the picture quality on the S60 is better than the w802a.

 

[Omlagus]

There's a subwoofer a couple feet away... didn't matter to any of my other monitors but I could try moving it.

CRT's were affected by the magnets in speakers, but that really shouldn't be an issue with a plasma.

What mode do you have the S60 in? If it's in a high contrast most like Dynamic/Vivid then that will tend to make image retention worse. Put it in Cinema or Movie mode (can't recall what Panasonic calls it). This will generally provide a more accurate (uncalibrated) out of the box picture. The phospors won't settle out until after at least 200 hours. This year's Panny plasmas are taking longer to settle than previous years.

So during this initial break-in period, watch a wide variety of full screen material and avoid static images as much as you can.

 

[nib95]

Guys how bad the input lag is on the Panasonic VT60? Is it a dealbreaker for gaming?

I was dead set on getting a Sony W900a, but the fact that it is only 55 inches is killing me...

I will be mostly watching movies/series and playing games.

I don't know which TV to get. The sony with the low input lag or the Pana with it's big screen and better picture??? HELP!

:-(

I would say no, having only used my cousins set. It's not really an issue at all but I suppose it depends on how sensitive you are to it. Personally for me the IQ benefits such as black level, contrast, colour accuracy, edge definition etc all make it well worth the trade off. Plasma's to me just tend to have a smoother image than LCD's (less aggressive edge enhancement), but I realise others may disagree.

 

[Sorta Maximus]

I was going for sony 900 but now I may research the VT panny. The lag has to be good as I already had a LG that was horrible with lag. Mario was soooo sloooow to jump it was like it wasn't even me pressing the button.

 

[Canon]

It looks like I spoke too soon, the same problems I was having before are back even with a new power outlet. Those damn lines with component. What could this be...

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I have also read about "ghosting" on plasmas when playing sub 60 fps games. I asked about this a few pages back, but I don't think anyone chimed in. Being that many next gen games are already confirmed to run at 30fps, shouldn't this be more of a concern or is it overblown?

It's not ghosting, it's color trails & it happens to all framerates.
A gaffer posted what it looks like on a plasma awhile ago

As for ghosting I hear the all the new panels resolve over 900+ out of 1080 lines of resolution in the Panasonic models.
The Sony LED use backlight scanning similar to Light Boost on the PC monitors to get a full 1080 lines of resolution for their sets.
A regular LCD/LED gets about 300-600 lines of resolution without any of that.

 

[Aske]

The phospors won't settle out until after at least 200 hours. This year's Panny plasmas are taking longer to settle than previous years.

So during this initial break-in period, watch a wide variety of full screen material and avoid static images as much as you can.

Interesting to read confirmation that the modern Panasonic plasmas need a longer break-in period. I was paranoid about IR with my six year old model, but after letting it break in (200ish hours of solid use, PS3 visualizer on the screen whenever I wasn't watching) I've had no problems. Now and again I've seen a bit of ghostly text on a totally black screen, but it's never been visible with an image on the screen; and it's always disappeared fast - in spite of the fact that I've become almost abusively careless as time has passed.

The major reason I'm considering switching to LCD for my next set is due to the Sony displays' incredibly low input lag, and vastly improved PQ vs typical LCD tech. I won't be upgrading any time soon, but if my TV died tomorrow, given the current price of the W900 combined with the poor viewing angles, I'd be very torn about choosing it over another Panasonic plasma. Prominent dithering on rare occasions is really the only problem I've ever had with the tech. The inability to use a plasma display as a PC monitor combined with the difficulty of moving a plasma panel vs an LCD of similar size is also in my mind; but those issues won't apply to most consumers.


Canon - those component issues are almost certainly due to faulty connections. If the cables worked with your other set, swap out the TV.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

My Panasonic P50S60 was delivered today. So hyped to use it. But I've been reading up on break-in techniques and I think I'm going to run a 100 hour slide show I found on AVS forum instead of going "Raw Dog" with HD content.

 

[MikeE21286]

My Panasonic P50S60 was delivered today. So hyped to use it. But I've been reading up on break-in techniques and I think I'm going to run a 100 hour slide show I found on AVS forum instead of going "Raw Dog" with HD content.

Not a bad choice.

The 100 hour break in worked perfectly for my panny plasma. 7 years and still going strong.

 

[Splash Wave]

What's the best TV for ~500? I've had the same shitty (and small) Samsung for awhile, and I'm thinking it might be a better move to buy a new TV rather than a PS4. My current display is 27 inches, so I'd like the new screen to be at least 40.

edit: I wish this was cheaper!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ARAHBIW/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Not a bad choice.

The 100 hour break in worked perfectly for my panny plasma. 7 years and still going strong.

Good to hear! My wife isn't too keen on the 100 hours, but I think it's best for the TV.

Spoiler

And my future PS4 gaming.

I'm upgrading from a 2010 Samsung P43D450 plasma that only ran at 720p.

 

[dmr87]

My Panasonic P50S60 was delivered today. So hyped to use it. But I've been reading up on break-in techniques and I think I'm going to run a 100 hour slide show I found on AVS forum instead of going "Raw Dog" with HD content.

Just enjoy your new TV and don't worry too much.

 

[BloodMoney]

I was sooo close to getting the W900 but I saw it next to the ST60 and I just can't validate spending 1k more for a tv that doesn't look as good as the Plasma. If it was 1500 I would have bit.

glad to read you are going plasma.
its a decision you will not regret.

 

[BloodMoney]

My Panasonic P50S60 was delivered today. So hyped to use it. But I've been reading up on break-in techniques and I think I'm going to run a 100 hour slide show I found on AVS forum instead of going "Raw Dog" with HD content.

Do it.

I did this on my 55" Panny GT30 2 years ago, and the picture is still reference quality. Anyone who sees the set is blown away. It sucks to spend a 100 hours running the color slides, but it's definitely worth it. THX setting for the win. *i used the slides from AVS.

The 100 hour break in worked perfectly for my panny plasma. 7 years and still going strong.

exactly.

 

[Doodis]

Good to hear! My wife isn't too keen on the 100 hours, but I think it's best for the TV.

Spoiler

And my future PS4 gaming.

I'm upgrading from a 2010 Samsung P43D450 plasma that only ran at 720p.

I watched regular content on TV and then ran the slides at night. If your wife is bugged, you may try this. I really don't think watching regular HD content will have any negative effect during the break-in period, unless you've got a constant channel bug up on the screen or HUD elements from a game.

 

[Nibiru]

Obviously OLED but they are crazy expensive so I wouldn't bother.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Just enjoy your new TV and don't worry too much.

Do it.

I did this on my 55" Panny GT30 2 years ago, and the picture is still reference quality. Anyone who sees the set is blown away. It sucks to spend a 100 hours running the color slides, but it's definitely worth it. THX setting for the win. *i used the slides from AVS.


exactly.

I watched regular content on TV and then ran the slides at night. If your wife is bugged, you may try this. I really don't think watching regular HD content will have any negative effect during the break-in period, unless you've got a constant channel bug up on the screen or HUD elements from a game.

I'm just going to play it safe and run the slides. I'll hook the TV up in the guest room until the 100 hours are up.

 

[Nocturno999]

The clicking noise in the S60 is normal. Is the sound produced by the T.V's plastic due to
temperature's change.

I got image retention the first hours because I was browsing the Internet and after a few minutes the web browsing bar was noticeable while watching
(low quality video) B&W movies, but couldn't notice it in normal gaming. It lasted for a week and I was thinking about returning it. I use the screen swipe feature after long gaming sessions now..

 

[TAS]

My Panasonic P50S60 was delivered today. So hyped to use it. But I've been reading up on break-in techniques and I think I'm going to run a 100 hour slide show I found on AVS forum instead of going "Raw Dog" with HD content.

It's absolutely worth doing. I ran slides for 100 hours on my S60 and I have had 0 image retention issues. I love it.

 

[Omlagus]

The main benefit from running slides is that you can leave the slideshow looping 24 hours a day and get through the break in period faster. That's it.

As long as you watch a variety of full screen material you will be fine. So stretch to get rid of black bars and avoid static logos or hud elements. Of course, if you're paranoid about it, there's no harm in running slides. It's just strictly speaking not necessary.

 

[Canon]

I called Panasonic support and they basically told me to buy another cable. I doubt that's it, but whatever. At first I thought they hung up on me when I told them the problem didn't exist on my Sony or Samsung, but when I called back they said it was a mistake.

 

[Freshmaker]

It's absolutely worth doing. I ran slides for 100 hours on my S60 and I have had 0 image retention issues. I love it.

I didn't do any of that. Still no image retention.

 

[dallow_bg]

I didn't do any of that. Still no image retention.

Yeah, breaking in has nothing to do with how bad IR will or won't be. Old myth.
Breaking in is simply to age the phosphors for calibration.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Yeah, breaking in has nothing to do with how bad IR will or won't be. Old myth.
Breaking in is simply to age the phosphors for calibration.

Yeah, that's my goal. Proper aging for richer color.

 

[garath]

Yeah, that's my goal. Proper aging for richer color.

Plasma is like a fine wine. Better with age.

I just bought a beer.

Panasonic 58" E60 LCD. After a month of looking and sweating a purchase I decided on that one. At $1000 it was the right mix of price, size and quality for my bright greatroom. It arrives Friday. Was originally going to buy it from Amazon but I got Best Buy to take a little off and the fact that they are local to return the TV in case of an issue and the free haul away of my old 50" DLP was compelling enough on top of that.

Can't wait!

 

[spectre_assassin]

There is no best TV type, just get whatever works for you.

haha sorry but to an extent you're wrong!

 

[Leckan]

What's the best TV for around 600-800 dollar/euro range. The S60 model doesn't exist in Europe for whatever reason so it has to be something else.

 

[Killing_Joke]

The clicking noise in the S60 is normal. Is the sound produced by the T.V's plastic due to
temperature's change.

I got image retention the first hours because I was browsing the Internet and after a few minutes the web browsing bar was noticeable while watching
(low quality video) B&W movies, but couldn't notice it in normal gaming. It lasted for a week and I was thinking about returning it. I use the screen swipe feature after long gaming sessions now..

Yeah i scared myself shitless. Got the s60 3 weeks and has been PERFECT besides PC IR. Totally my fault as i didn't do full research on PC/IR/Burn in before i bought the TV.

Did 50+ hours of GTA V, not a single IR. 100+ PC use, bad taskbar IR.

But it's starting to go away. (Did an 8 hour wipe)

IR really confuses me though. During a wipe it's completely gone. Can't see anything. Also can't see anything during black or colorfull backrounds. Only noticable during certain white low color areas. I take this as a good sign because i hear Pixar movies are good help to get rid of IR. Speaking of which i was recommened th disney WOW disk to help IR. Anyone ever use it?

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

I ordered the WOW disc with my new TV but have yet to use it. But everything I've read on it says it's an amazing tool for the "pixel flipper" alone.

 

[garath]

I just got my WoW disc in the mail today from Amazon. I'll be using it tomorrow to assist in calibrating my new TV when it arrives. Heard nothing but good things about it.

 

[thecouncil]

US: Looking for a 47" - 55" passive 3D TV for about $1000.

Is this Toshiba any good? Anyone have it? Is there something better?

Toshiba 55L6200U

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

US: Looking for a 47" - 55" passive 3D TV for about $1000.

Is this Toshiba any good? Anyone have it? Is there something better?

Toshiba 55L6200U

Everyone raves about the Panasonic P50ST60, just under $999.99 at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVRJK3K/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[thekonamicode]

My ST60 came in this morning, and this box is HUGE. I have to wait for my wife to get home so she can help get everything out of the box and we'll set it up together. I guess I'll spend the weekend breaking this sucker in and impressions will follow. I have an inexpensive onkyo home theater in a box kit coming in tomorrow along with some speaker stands, so I'll play around with that too.