Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Yeah and active 3D flickers too.

Specifically, does the ST60 have good 3D that doesn't hurt your eyes? And in general, does the set not flicker like some plasmas do?

i don't think i've ever read a bad review concerning 3D on Panny Plasmas.
 
My GT gets some image retention, it goes away after regular viewing for awhile, and the lag.

I like plasma for regular TV viewing (sports,etc.) and movies. Better colors and better motion.
Do you also notice buzzing from the TV? When I had an S60 it was pretty annoying. Wondering if the ST60 is any better.
 
I have had this tv for about a year now and love it. Great picture quality and the sound is actually quite good. Nice small bezel. The colors are quite accurate and it has good black levels and contrast. I don't notice much lag playing fighters and stuff but I'm no expert.

So is it pretty good then for gaming? I can't resist, I need a TV.
 
Do you also notice buzzing from the TV? When I had an S60 it was pretty annoying. Wondering if the ST60 is any better.

I haven't had any buzzing sounds. My plasma sits in an entertainment center and I sit 8 feet away from it, and I have surround sound. I use TV speaker for most TV viewing and surround sound for movies.

The ST60 adds in 3D. If you scroll to the bottom of this page it shows the difference between the ZT, VT, ST and S. I don't know why Panasonic got rid of the GT version.

So is it pretty good then for gaming? I can't resist, I need a TV.

My gripe on this TV is that it is only 60hz. (Lag is good in the 20-30ms range) I would recommend a 120hz TV, that's without the use of a Motion Flow, that set is 120hz if you use interpolation software which will create more lag, if you want to watch sports or anything fast moving.

Edit: This is a comparable TV with 120hz. Samsung UN46FH6030

Problem is displaylag.com shows a 59ms lag on that TV...
 
I know the technical differences, but there's stuff nobody mentions like how bad the dithering is on the ST60 versus the S60, or the buzzing noise. Or maybe they're all the same. Guess I'll just buy one and see.
 
All plasmas buzz. It's inherent in the technology.

Whether you hear it a lot, a little, or not at all depends a great deal on the set you got, your own hearing, and where you are sitting relative to the TV.

Last year I had and returned a Samsung plasma that buzzed loudly like a fluorescent light, I couldn't stand the noise. Now I have a VT60 and it has just barely any buzz, which really is only clearly audible when showing a white screen. Nothing about my home theater or my sitting position has changed, just the TV.

All plasmas have dithering. The best plasma panels can show about 30k colors, and the cheaper ones only can show 6k. 24-bit RGB (8 bits for Red, Green, and Blue) has a total of 16.7 million possible colors. Dithering is necessary. If you can see it clearly, you are sitting way too close to your TV. You should not see any dithering at normal viewing distance, even if it's obvious when you stand 12 inches from it and look at the image.
 
Ordered a Neutral Filter for my Projector, should be here today and should improve the black levels of my "too bright" W1070.
Can't wait to try this.
 
I was looking to get the exact same set. I'd be interested in hearing some more tv-saavy posters fill me in on any potential cons of the set because from what I saw displayed at Best Buy it had the most appealing image quality of any set there without taking 4k sets into account. I also acknowledge that the tvs may not be calibrated equally and things of that nature, though, so I'd like to get some feedback on it.


Just bought this today at Best Buy (55' version).

Set is slim, light, and great quality. Oddly enough, got it for the 3d since I wanted to try out the 3d games I own. Still tinkering with the calibration settings but so far so good. For the price, I think it's a great deal.

Don't like the remote that much though.
 
Oh thanks, so is it just the first number that indicates what TV it is and the 2nd and 3rd are region. Say the Sony 42" W670A and the Sony 42" W653A would be the same TV but different regions, but the 6 indicates it's the same TV.

usually but not necessarily. Eg the 50W65x is the same set but might have different features (black vs silver bezel, maybe freeview vs freesat tuner, maybe a retailer exclusive with a tiny cosmetic difference). But there is also a 50W685 which has a passive 3D panel, so quite different from the 65x
 

thanks for that. still havent seen the s60 in person and yet i plunked down cash. the glare/reflection certain is there, but even under those conditions i wouldnt call it bad. should be a stunner when i have the shutters down or at night. this eased my mind that i made the right decision.
 
Trying to decide between the Sony KDL-55w900a or the Sony KDL-55w802a. I haven't been able to find many comparisons between the two.

P.S. Don't tell me to get a Plasma. I already own a Panasonic GT series for my home theater / living room, and it isn't good for gaming.

I am in the same boat as you. Is the tri luminous display really worth the xtra 5oo bucks? Any help between these 2 would be great.. I would also like to know a bit about the 47 inchl model Sony has as well. Its around a grand so its 500 cheaper but you loose 8 inches....

Please gurus... give me some advice!
 
Why is plasma not good for gaming? Burn-in?

I've been using my 50" 2006 Panny plasma for mainly gaming for years and I have zero burn-in. If my old ass plasma hasn't gotten any burn -in, then the newer ones shouldn't even be an issue unless people use it in torch mode and have it on for a few months without moving anything.

Image retention is a thing but they go away after a few minutes with any moving images. Not even an issue. As for buzzing, I only hear it when everything is silent and the screen is pure white. Other than that, I don't even notice it especially when you have things going on. Another non-issue.
 
I toggle it when going between games and media.
Yep, me too. Game mode on/off is the only setting you'll need to change switching between media and gaming.
Wouldn't this mean your audio would end up out of sync if you don't adjust for that though? Although, if you are using TV audio then you wouldn't need to worry about that I guess.

I have spent many hours adjusting my audio delay settings to try and get things to sync as close as possible, and having to toggle a game mode on/off would only make that more annoying I would think. It's part of the reason I'm leaning towards the S60 as it doesn't even have a game mode from what I've read, it's display lag is simply what it is in all modes I believe.
 
Sears has the Sony 50-inch kdl50r450a on sale at $549. Been looking to upgrade from my 2007 32-inch Samsung LCD. What do you say Gaf, good deal, good gaming tv?
 
So I think I am going with the Sony KDL-55w802a. I know it has 4 HDMI ports, but I have a silly question. I am mounting this tv on a wall (or panel on the wall)... will the HDMI cords that I plug into the side HDMI ports show? I am trying to hide all cables, and I dont want hdmi cables sticking out the side of my tv.

ANy help would be great.... I hope I like this TV! Just cant afford the extra 500 for the w900.
 
So my TV busted and I'm looking for a 42" one to replace it. I'm not sure I want to invest in a Plasma since the best one I can find within my budget is only able to render 720p, so I looked around and found a great deal for a Panasonic TX-L42B6E. Can anyone vouch for that particular model?
 
So I think I am going with the Sony KDL-55w802a. I know it has 4 HDMI ports, but I have a silly question. I am mounting this tv on a wall (or panel on the wall)... will the HDMI cords that I plug into the side HDMI ports show? I am trying to hide all cables, and I dont want hdmi cables sticking out the side of my tv.

ANy help would be great.... I hope I like this TV! Just cant afford the extra 500 for the w900.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CJGIWIA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=37JOVLOVHDKMF&coliid=I3990U5EJ60D7P

Use these. Or if you want there are cables with a 90degree connection on 1 end.
 
Do you guys buy extended warranties or do you feel it's not worth it?

Just bought this today at Best Buy (55' version).

Set is slim, light, and great quality. Oddly enough, got it for the 3d since I wanted to try out the 3d games I own. Still tinkering with the calibration settings but so far so good. For the price, I think it's a great deal.

Don't like the remote that much though.

Any clouding issues?
 
Still in the early research stages of looking at a new 55' set to replace my 46' Aquos. I'm interested in the 802A mainly at this point, but I'm interested in some other options.

Ideally, I want a good 55' set with gaming as a major focus obviously (so better than average input lag) and good quality picture. However most of the TVs in the range I'm looking at are 3D, which to me is a huge negative. I will never use 3D - and indeed I basically can't see active 3D content at all - so a TV having it makes me feel like I'm paying more for a dead end tech I actively will avoid. I think 120hz should be fine, like my current Sharp, but refresh rate is well down my list of priorities.
 
I have a Samsung LN46A650 that I picked up 5 years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46A650-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001413D94/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I a thinking of replacing it with a TV like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I am going to look at it tomorrow, but I'm wondering why my 5 year-old TV is selling on Amazon for $300 more than a new LED LCD (be it a lower-end model). Does my old TV have a better picture than I'm giving it credit for, and will I possibly be disappointed by a lower-end model even 5 years later with LED technology?
 
The ST60 adds in 3D. If you scroll to the bottom of this page it shows the difference between the ZT, VT, ST and S. I don't know why Panasonic got rid of the GT version.
Because GT60 doesn't get sold in US, just like S60 is not sold in Europe.
I never heard my ST60 buzz or heard fans, etc.
ST60's power supply are known to buzz if you listen to it attentively, specially if they're showing lots of white (power draw increases).

No fan noise because it has no fans.
All plasmas have dithering. The best plasma panels can show about 30k colors, and the cheaper ones only can show 6k. 24-bit RGB (8 bits for Red, Green, and Blue) has a total of 16.7 million possible colors. Dithering is necessary. If you can see it clearly, you are sitting way too close to your TV. You should not see any dithering at normal viewing distance, even if it's obvious when you stand 12 inches from it and look at the image.
Actually it does get to be more complex than that.

I'm sure you know, but colors on a plasma, or possible results are result of the possible resolves per subfield.

That makes Kuro's and their contiguous subfield one of the most limited plasmas around when it came to color, but that's where ghosting time, interpolation and refresh rate came in handy, the thing was severely limited but negated that through pure "epileptic" hardwork. Had it been obvious they wouldn't be legendary to this day. I'm pretty sure Panasonic modern plasma drivers are pulling the same thing they bought the tech after all but didn't conform to the contiguous subfield method and kept the binary one instead (more color depth sans-interpolation), it's only normal they'd apply some of that research to negate their own problems to a lesser degree.
 
I have a Samsung LN46A650 that I picked up 5 years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46A650-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001413D94/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I a thinking of replacing it with a TV like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I am going to look at it tomorrow, but I'm wondering why my 5 year-old TV is selling on Amazon for $300 more than a new LED LCD (be it a lower-end model). Does my old TV have a better picture than I'm giving it credit for, and will I possibly be disappointed by a lower-end model even 5 years later with LED technology?

I have no idea why, but a LOT of TVs on Amazon that are five & even 10 years old are being sold used for their original MSRP price or close to it.

Maybe those sellers think someone will not know the TV is that old & will buy it for that price.
 
Ok cool. That's what I figured. I feel like I need to consider spending a little more and getting the S60.

Are plasmas as good as LCDs for gaming? My friend with an older Viera said no, but that seems like heresy.
 
Ok cool. That's what I figured. I feel like I need to consider spending a little more and getting the S60.

Are plasmas as good as LCDs for gaming? My friend with an older Viera said no, but that seems like heresy.

He's nuts, I love it. Had zero issues with it. I'm planning to grab the S60 as soon as I see it under $1k.
 
Thing with plasmas is, there is definitely a break-in period. That break-in can be done transparently these days providing you use the TV at half brightness and not abuse still images.

Games with HUD's of course, have still images, as do TV channels with no translucent logos, so the thing is, you should have a mixed usage of the set (change TV channel, change game or cycle between both, don't stress too much, but don't abuse it like it's meant to break). In short, don't go 180 hour playthrough on a game non-stop.

During the break-in period the phosphor has not aged and that means it's less obedient which means it takes more time to clean Image Retention (IR); if you abuse it that might lead to permanent retention aka burn-in.

This is not a logic thing to happen, mind you, providing normal usage. But some people abuse things through and through. I've learned of a case where a dude destroyed a 65VT60 by pulling brightness over to the max, using the TV's dynamic mode (which shouldn't be there to start with) and switching off things like pixel orbiter. This, straight out of the box. Forbid people at his place from seeing television on it and did the break-in playing hundreds of hours on Demon Souls with suicidal settings.

Suffices to say he ended up with nasty burn-in; he abused it through all means and purposes and the TV was not ready for it, not before it had 500/1000 hours worth of "normal" usage on it.

So if you like dynamic contrasts, unrealistic brightness settings, washed out colors and playing with complete utter crap image quality (due to all of the above, as increased light output degrades colors), you're better off with a LCD - certainly. Dynamic modes should be dropped all together, but I digress.

If you can savor image quality and use it within the realms of logic at first, you can actually abuse it later on; and reap the benefits of plasma tech. If you can comply to that then plasma is a good choice.


Don't get me wrong, I knowingly abused the plasma I have in front of me, out of the box too, but I knew what I was doing - I played games on it at the brightness settings I use it now (which are not by any means abusive, but not compromising either) and even pulled a few dozen hours on a 4:3 last gen RPG, centered on the TV, meaning vertical black bars for hours), apologized by running TV channels at half brightness for hours and seldom using the scroll bar and even though it had pretty obvious and lasting IR during some points of the break-in period (that took a while to cleanse) it was never "dangerous"; this said, IR can take time to clean during the break-in period, what took hours before with the scroll bar, disappears within 3/5 minutes of changing channels now - no need for the scroll bar. And that's how I know it's out of the break-in period now.

But I knew what I was doing from having prior Plasmas.
 
Thing with plasmas is, there is definitely a break-in period. That break-in can be done transparently these days providing you use the TV at half brightness and not abuse still images.

Games with HUD's of course, have still images, as do TV channels with no translucent logos, so the thing is, you should have a mixed usage of the set (change TV channel, change game or cycle between both, don't stress too much, but don't abuse it like it's meant to break). In short, don't go 180 hour playthrough on a game non-stop.

During the break-in period the phosphor has not aged and that means it's less obedient which means it takes more time to clean Image Retention (IR); if you abuse it that might lead to permanent retention aka burn-in.

This is not a logic thing to happen, mind you, providing normal usage. But some people abuse things through and through. I've learned of a case where a dude destroyed a 65VT60 by pulling brightness over to the max, using the TV's dynamic mode (which shouldn't be there to start with) and switching off things like pixel orbiter. This, straight out of the box. Forbid people at his place from seeing television on it and did the break-in playing hundreds of hours on Demon Souls with suicidal settings.

Suffices to say he ended up with nasty burn-in; he abused it through all means and purposes and the TV was not ready for it, not before it had 500/1000 hours worth of "normal" usage on it.

So if you like dynamic contrasts, unrealistic brightness settings, washed out colors and playing with complete utter crap image quality (due to all of the above, as increased light output degrades colors), you're better off with a LCD - certainly. Dynamic modes should be dropped all together, but I digress.

If you can savor image quality and use it within the realms of logic at first, you can actually abuse it later on; and reap the benefits of plasma tech. If you can comply to that then plasma is a good choice.


Don't get me wrong, I knowingly abused the plasma I have in front of me, out of the box too, but I knew what I was doing - I played games on it at the brightness settings I use it now (which are not by any means abusive, but not compromising either) and even pulled a few dozen hours on a 4:3 last gen RPG, centered on the TV, meaning vertical black bars for hours), apologized by running TV channels at half brightness for hours and seldom using the scroll bar and even though it had pretty obvious and lasting IR during some points of the break-in period (that took a while to cleanse) it was never "dangerous"; this said, IR can take time to clean during the break-in period, what took hours before with the scroll bar, disappears within 3/5 minutes of changing channels now - no need for the scroll bar. And that's how I know it's out of the break-in period now.

But I knew what I was doing from having prior Plasmas.

Thanks for the info. I was in the super-blown out image quality camp, but I'm changing as I get older.

So why is Panasonic suspending its plasma production if it makes such awesome sets?
 
Thanks for the info. I was in the super-blown out image quality camp, but I'm changing as I get older.

So why is Panasonic suspending its plasma production if it makes such awesome sets?

Someone posted a report that going to 4k would be too expensive to manufacture for these types of sets so they're scrapping it instead.
 
Anybody know if I'll have any issues using the Sony KDL 42W654 in the U.S. since it has a 50hz refresh rate compared to the 60hz we use in America? I already ordered the T.V.
 
I'm on the fence between a VT60, ZT60, or the W900A. I want it primarily for gaming but I don't know what my current 42" Sharp Aquos from 2007 had in terms of display lag so I'm not sure how bothered I'd be by getting a plasma over the W900A. While I play action games from time to time I'm past the point where I care about my performance more than I care about whether or not I'm enjoying the game, so that makes me think going with a laggier but prettier plasma might be worth it... but it's a touch decision to make.

Also, is around $2000 about as low as I can expect either the VT60 or ZT60 to get?
 
Anybody know if I'll have any issues using the Sony KDL 42W654 in the U.S. since it has a 50hz refresh rate compared to the 60hz we use in America? I already ordered the T.V.

It'll support 60Hz too - don't forget there are a ton of Europeans with these sets playing PS360 games at 720p/60 and soon hopefully in 1080p/60

They just use 50Hz because it is the TVs standard over here




Does anyone know if passive 3DTVs have any issues displaying non 3D content? No dimming or visible filters over the screen?
 
Thanks for the info. I was in the super-blown out image quality camp, but I'm changing as I get older.

So why is Panasonic suspending its plasma production if it makes such awesome sets?
No marketing for a niche product: most manufacturers bailed out years ago so there's not even awareness of the fact they forewent a perfectly viable technology at the time - it doesn't help that LG, Samsung and Panasonic don't put budget into advertising it. Public sees everything as a linear evolution, "what came next might be worse" is not something they would expect, and yet, for public awareness, first came CRT's, then plasmas, then came LCD's, so they can't comprehend why plasmas are still sold - bar the videophiles.

Public awareness for Plasma problems: Store clerks still say the same things about plasmas they did in 1997. Sure, plasmas had a few problems in 1997. that wasn't all that true from 1999/2000 onwards and then further negated them (plasmas started out having shorten lifespans to LCD's and even CRT's, these days they're the most durable ones, rated at 100.000 hours to half brightness, all of them). Again, manufacturers decided to bail instead of investing in negating that notion via marketing. Panasonic did well on a macroscale for a few years due to more informed public seeking them...

But sales dropped: for several years in a row due to the economic crisis, no doubt and...

4K: appeared and it's like this: Plasma panels are expensive, each pixel is more expensive to make than an LCD one and they certainly lack the same manufacturing capability. That's why Panasonic, Samsung and LG kept the 16:9 1024x768 anamorphic panels going for so long, basically, price per pixel bites; they can't really go cheap on them, unlike with LCD's. So they retain most of the plasma inherent quality and lose out on pixel count; increased inches also marred the technology, as they'd have to invest on their plants to go further than 65", which is why there isn't a 84VT60. That's also why we knew as soon as late 2012 that despite the fact that there were 4K plasma prototypes they would never see the light of the day, as OLED's approached...

OLED's: Are cheaper to produce on a per pixel basis (that means 4K is attainable), spend less 40% than LCD's (Plasmas spent roughly double that of an LCD) and can recreate the Plasma blacks; they're also simpler; Panasonic decided to invest their engineers there this years, instead of further developing plasmas. Other benefit is the fact an OLED factory can be a reportioned LCD one (that's what Panasonic spent this whole year doing to their LCD plant, 2013 LCD panels employed on Panny's are mostly from LG, and none by Panasonic); Plasma tech though, is a dead end, a plant producing plasmas can only be reportioned to do solar panels.
 
Does anyone know if passive 3DTVs have any issues displaying non 3D content? No dimming or visible filters over the screen?

I have a passive 3D monitor and don't notice anything, but if you have prescription glasses that have any kind of polarization on them you might see something.
if I use the 3D glasses in 2d mode there are really nasty lines going across the monitor.
 
Fuuuuuuuu, i have a 42inch samsung plasma right now from 2008 that ive been debating on replacing. This has what ive been eyeing, someone help me over the edge on it. Will be my main tv (sports, shows, movies, games).

Help!

funny, i'm also replacing a 42in samsung plasma from 2008
 
I have a Samsung LN46A650 that I picked up 5 years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46A650-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001413D94/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I a thinking of replacing it with a TV like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I am going to look at it tomorrow, but I'm wondering why my 5 year-old TV is selling on Amazon for $300 more than a new LED LCD (be it a lower-end model). Does my old TV have a better picture than I'm giving it credit for, and will I possibly be disappointed by a lower-end model even 5 years later with LED technology?

That is pretty much the same TV...
 
Because GT60 doesn't get sold in US, just like S60 is not sold in Europe.ST60's power supply are known to buzz if you listen to it attentively, specially if they're showing lots of white (power draw increases).

No fan noise because it has no fans.Actually it does get to be more complex than that.

I'm sure you know, but colors on a plasma, or possible results are result of the possible resolves per subfield.

That makes Kuro's and their contiguous subfield one of the most limited plasmas around when it came to color, but that's where ghosting time, interpolation and refresh rate came in handy, the thing was severely limited but negated that through pure "epileptic" hardwork. Had it been obvious they wouldn't be legendary to this day. I'm pretty sure Panasonic modern plasma drivers are pulling the same thing they bought the tech after all but didn't conform to the contiguous subfield method and kept the binary one instead (more color depth sans-interpolation), it's only normal they'd apply some of that research to negate their own problems to a lesser degree.

I know the GT is in Europe now, it used to be a USA model too..


Someone isn't testing these right because on displaylag.com the ST60 has a display lag of 75ms....
 
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