I'm surprised no one called you out for this inaccuracy so I'm gonna do it.
These numbers are bullshit and way off.
Edit: Ah I missed the post that already said everything.
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
I'm surprised no one called you out for this inaccuracy so I'm gonna do it.
These numbers are bullshit and way off.
Edit: Ah I missed the post that already said everything.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
Frame time is 16ms. Actual input latency is usually closer to 60ms. There are multiple frames of setup time before your input is relayed to the screen.
No it is much more and you feel it. Halo 3 had 133ms for example. Check it out on Youtube.
^ I have to agree with the comment above (Wolfgang Jr's comment) I LOVE opening new electronics myself. It's a special joy opening up the box yourself, and smelling that new electronics smell. I also love popping the air bubbles wrapping plastic.
Now as for if I (or the delivery guy) damage the TV, then I will just simply send it back for repairs. Most new electonics has a factory warrenty, that's good for up to 3 months to a year. I can't wait until next month. I will finally have enough money to buy me a new 60" Samsung Full 1080p LED TV. Of course, I'm gonna post pics when it arrives....next month.
Now as for if I (or the delivery guy) damage the TV, then I will just simply send it back for repairs. Most new electonics has a factory warrenty, that's good for up to 3 months to a year. I can't wait until next month. I will finally have enough money to buy me a new 60" Samsung Full 1080p LED TV. Of course, I'm gonna post pics when it arrives....next month.
undercoverb0ss
Member
I let the delivery guys open it up and let me plug it in and turn it on before they go. I want to see it working properly before they get to leave. I'm not going to be responsible for shipping back a broken TV.
That said, they don't leave my sight
It is absolutely critical to inspect a TV delivered by a 3rd party company, which is the norm when ordering online. I'd recommend getting a USB stick loaded with calibration slides to quickly check the set once its turned on.
HawksWinStanley
Member
I let the delivery guys open it up and let me plug it in and turn it on before they go. I want to see it working properly before they get to leave. I'm not going to be responsible for shipping back a broken TV.
That said, they don't leave my sight
So do the dudes just stand there and watch as you screw the stand into the tv and plug everything in?
That's going to be awkward.
What all should I look for aside from obvious physical damage?
Anyone with the W900a have good settings? On my ps3 should the rgb be set to full or limited, PS4 is set to automatic which seems to be setting it to full.
I'm using cinema 1 and warm 2, that seemed OK when watching Skyfall the other day, but I'm watching PoC: Curse of the black pearl, and my blacks seemed to be crushed, changed to cinema 2 and that improved it a bit, but I shouldn't have to change settings between movies.
I tried using a calibration thing included in my Life Blu ray set, but I didn't like how dark it wanted me to go.
I'm in a dark room as well.
I'm using cinema 1 and warm 2, that seemed OK when watching Skyfall the other day, but I'm watching PoC: Curse of the black pearl, and my blacks seemed to be crushed, changed to cinema 2 and that improved it a bit, but I shouldn't have to change settings between movies.
I tried using a calibration thing included in my Life Blu ray set, but I didn't like how dark it wanted me to go.
I'm in a dark room as well.
My old G10 Panasonic plasma is way under 16.66ms (1 frame) and it's amazing for twitch shooters and fighters. Thanks to how amazing the tv handles motion it even blows away my "Evo" monitor. (My 60" 9th Gen Pioneer Kuro is for movie watching. 
)
If you're gonna be playing twitch shooters or fighters on a HDTV it really does matter how much input delay it adds to the experience. Having a TV that adds 40-60ms+ of input delay to games feels like utter shit.
I'm really pissed off with Panasonic over the past year or so..they went from having amazing plasma displays with ultra low input delay to their ST60 having 70ms +.
Funny enough Panasonic's 4K LCD has a 36ms input delay tested via Leo Bodnar this is pretty amazing seeing as it is upscaling the 1080p input to its 4K native res.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/txl65wt600b-201312313499.htm
I can't wait for CES 2014.
)If you're gonna be playing twitch shooters or fighters on a HDTV it really does matter how much input delay it adds to the experience. Having a TV that adds 40-60ms+ of input delay to games feels like utter shit.
I'm really pissed off with Panasonic over the past year or so..they went from having amazing plasma displays with ultra low input delay to their ST60 having 70ms +.
Funny enough Panasonic's 4K LCD has a 36ms input delay tested via Leo Bodnar this is pretty amazing seeing as it is upscaling the 1080p input to its 4K native res.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/txl65wt600b-201312313499.htm
I can't wait for CES 2014.
undercoverb0ss
Member
In my case they weren't in a rush so they didn't mind to wait 5-10mins to place the TV on stand and power it up, but I imagine you could set it on a couch or something in place of the stand for the sake of time. The slides just help assess that the electronics of the set are functional but of course nothing is fool proof.
It would suck to have such a expensive set delivered and an hour later you realize that there is a panel issue, etc.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
They have a automated call the night before delivery & then call you again on delivery day about 20 minutes before they get to your house.
They'll haul the box to your home.
They will then unpack the TV from the box & they can take the box with them to discard or you can ask to leave it with you if you want.
Depending on if you get white glove delivery or not, they'll plug the TV into the wall socket to make it turns on & you didn't get a defective set. You can ask them not to bother as well,
You sign a paper & depending on you, you can give them a tip, if they went through a lot of trouble.
Also returns should be fine, but read the store's return policy, they normally send another delivery truck to pick it back up for free if it is defective.
undercoverb0ss
Member
Yea, in my case I had Paul's TV free white glove delivery, so your results may vary.
Well thanks but nothing really helps. Worse, DSE and banding is just distractingly awful on the Sony W6 whenever there's a panning motion on this TV. It's unbearable. Can someone recommend a similarly priced TV that doesn't suffer from this crap? I don't believe there's not an alternative. My freaking four year-old LED monitor doesn't have this shit. I have until Monday I to exchange this thing.
Nope. Calibrated my old TVs myself, and didn't really see the need to do it on the VT60. Just set it to THX Cinema and raised the contrast/brightness a tad.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Alright, well I guess I'll just ask them if it's cool that I plug it in first just to make sure there isn't some apparent issue.
It looks like Amazon gives you a prepaid packing slip for returning items but for large items I think they might send a truck. I guess I'll find out when/if that happens.
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
I would never pay for calibration, but I don't see it as a bad thing to get done. Getting a professional to set it to EXACTLY the standard it should be is the very best starting point for you to adjust it ever so slightly to what you like. Some people wouldn't even know where to start.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
What company did they use for delivery?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
It's completely game dependent.
Throws in MvC3, for example, activate in only one frame.
What's DSE?
Dirty screen effect. It's exactly what it sounds. The screen seems to be dirty when it's not. You see darker spots or patterns that shouldn't be in the picture, especally in bright scenes. Right now I'm having a love-hate relationship with this TV, I played several PS3 games last night and all of them looked spectacular, and I couldn't really notice the uniformity imperfections on them. But everytime there's a panning shot on a movie or tv show, I can see the banding and or DSE. Sigh. My only consolation is that all TVs suffer from this, even Plasmas sometimes.
I probably already mentioned this here, but I bought last year's model Sony, the EX645, and it's the best TV I have ever owned. And I have owned many. I've always hated direct view LCD panels, as they always had visible dithering, banding, DSE, etc. I actually reverted back to CRT for a time, but then was very happy with the Sony rear projection LCD sets. Dealing with bulbs, and finally a faulty optical block led to me to research direct view panels. The EX645 is the model they made just before the 802a, and it appears to use the same, or very similar panel. The features are almost identical, minus 3D support.
It's fantastic. Low input lag. No DSE. No banding. No flash-lighting. No dithering. It's about time LCD panels became viable. Since it was the prior model, I bought it at clearance price, just a bit more than their low end current models.
If you are in Canada, and want a great LED LCD for gaming, hit up the source website and search for this model. Some stores still have it in their back room, and you can check the stock level online.
It's fantastic. Low input lag. No DSE. No banding. No flash-lighting. No dithering. It's about time LCD panels became viable. Since it was the prior model, I bought it at clearance price, just a bit more than their low end current models.
If you are in Canada, and want a great LED LCD for gaming, hit up the source website and search for this model. Some stores still have it in their back room, and you can check the stock level online.
FrankNitty
Member
I paid for it once and was happy with the results and very interested in the process so I learned how to do it myself. That was in 2009, every since then I have calibrated my own displays because I own meters and software to do it myself.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
In my experience every large (42" +) edge-lit LCD suffers from this issue. Some are worse than others and there's an element of luck to it. I tried many 55"-60" LCD sets and never could find one that didn't have some kind of obvious uniformity issue such as what you are describing. At least obvious to me, most of them looked "fine" to my wife and friend so there's that element too. There's always that guy online that says his panel is perfect. Odds are he just doesn't see it or watch the right kind of content but he could just be extremely lucky. I remember watching anime was particularly painful due to all the panning shots over bright, flat colors. Your monitor may not show any of these issues simply because it is smaller, direct-lit, or both. Unless it's really bad you may as well accept it as part of the technology. Yes, plasmas can also suffer from banding but it's much less common. Sadly, I am very sensitive to buzzing and flicker so I couldn't stand those either.
What size did you get? I tried a 60" EX645 last year and it had poor performance in dark scenes, and suffered from some kind of horrible blue trails/shadows issue in many games where a dark object on a lighter background left blue shadows after it. I've got a couple pics. Of course Sony often sources panels from different companies so it's a bit of a crapshoot and you may have a different panel as well.
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
Sony XBR 4K Ultra HD TV - XBR-65X900A
I wanted this TV and i love the design of TV with the speakers.
Took quick pics of street fighter
Sonic Boom !!!
Incredible sound from these speakers on TV.
I just posted these on pick up thread but still.
I am coming from a panasonic plasma so i notice difference but this TV is great.
Kind of got annoyed at the careful with this or careful with that BS.
I love my new TV and i knew i was sacrificing blacks.
Very happy with purchase
OG_Original Gamer
Member
For me the big benefit with a professional calibration is color accuracy as well as having a really good contrast setting. Gamma correction ads PQ benefit to. The amount of color clipping I see with alot of HD sets is crazy. If anything don't let the calibrater leave your sharpness setting so low that everything looks soft.
WonkyPanda
Member
Hawks, I was delivered the TV via CEVA. I had heard some horror stories, but here in the Bay Area, I had a wonderful experience. Two gentlemen brought the tv up, assembled the stand, moved my old tv off the stand, and placed the VT on the stand.
Obviously, they are not required to place the tv or move your old tv, but these guys were awesome. YMMV, though.
Finally put 100+ hours into the panel and used DNice's settings. This thing looks incredible. Sorry for the crappy iPhone pics, but I think it basically covers the amazing blacks and color contrast of the VT. The blacks are so....inky, my jaw dropped.
WonkyPanda
Member
Hah. ah, yes, my elated state means logic is out the window. Still...dos blacks.
Also, is it an issue with Active 3D or the screens refresh when it seems like the background of the image sort of..dims for a quick moment and then returns back. I have 0 experience with any type of 3D tech in the home.
should I watch Avatar in 3D or not in 3D for the first time on my W900a?
I've never seen it before, but right now I have both the regular version and the Panasonic "exclusive" 3D version. I saw the demo version (non 3D) at the Sony Store running on the same TV and it looked fucking amazing.
the W900a displays active 3D.. so it would be 1080p
I've never seen it before, but right now I have both the regular version and the Panasonic "exclusive" 3D version. I saw the demo version (non 3D) at the Sony Store running on the same TV and it looked fucking amazing.
the W900a displays active 3D.. so it would be 1080p
3D, in my opinion Avatar 3D is the best showcase of 3D by far...
You will be blown away even on your home cinema, saw it a couple of times on a friends Panasonic, amazing experience. In my opinion even more so at home than in the Theatre.
I'm replacing my W900a. The horizontal banding is getting to me. Others barley notice it. But I'm the primary user so it stands out to me.
The first time CEVA dropped off my TV. I told them to just sit it on the living room floor. I had no idea they did assembly as well. I'll be sure to ask this time.
Other really good 3D content options are a couple of the IMAX 3D offerings which are out on blu ray; "Ultimate Wave Tahiti 3D" and "Hubble 3D" are stunning, both are short though but Ultimate Wave in particular is just awesome. The Nitro Circus 3D film is worth picking up too.
I can't wait to get my Gravity 3D blu ray when it releases too.
Went to a store yesterday to buy a tv. I was in huge doubt between a Sony W905 or a Panasonic VT/GT.
After looking a lot of demo scenes back and forth between the W905 and VT60 it was still a difficult decision.
Colourwise they were very close, the Panasonic being a little bit more pleasing to the eye to watch.
In the end I chose the Sony. The things that made me choose for the Sony:
- Lower price (free tablet Z) for the 55 inch Sony than the Panasonic 55 inch
- Design. Due to the small bezels of the Sony the 50 inch Panasonic is only slighty smaller than the 55 inch Sony.
- No chance of IR
- Less power consumption
- Better performance in a bright room.
I really like the Sony, but to be honest I am still in doubt about the size and whether or not plasma is really that much better. The blacks on the Sony are quite impressive too and I changed the screen settings to 'movie' which gives really nice warm colors.
I still have time to return the Sony, so I am going to test it with different movies/games in the next few days.
I watched Planet Earth and Avatar yesterday and I have to say that the picture quality was stunning.
One question, is there a difference in the way LED and plasma handle lower quality imput? Some tv channels were a bit disappointing to watch, while others were razor sharp.
After looking a lot of demo scenes back and forth between the W905 and VT60 it was still a difficult decision.
Colourwise they were very close, the Panasonic being a little bit more pleasing to the eye to watch.
In the end I chose the Sony. The things that made me choose for the Sony:
- Lower price (free tablet Z) for the 55 inch Sony than the Panasonic 55 inch
- Design. Due to the small bezels of the Sony the 50 inch Panasonic is only slighty smaller than the 55 inch Sony.
- No chance of IR
- Less power consumption
- Better performance in a bright room.
I really like the Sony, but to be honest I am still in doubt about the size and whether or not plasma is really that much better. The blacks on the Sony are quite impressive too and I changed the screen settings to 'movie' which gives really nice warm colors.
I still have time to return the Sony, so I am going to test it with different movies/games in the next few days.
I watched Planet Earth and Avatar yesterday and I have to say that the picture quality was stunning.
One question, is there a difference in the way LED and plasma handle lower quality imput? Some tv channels were a bit disappointing to watch, while others were razor sharp.
Holy shit; I would never let a delivery dude touch any of my electrical gear! I'd let them drop it off where you want it (living room), making sure they don't bump any walls (60" box is pretty big!) and demand them to get the fuck out; I love opening that big brown box myself
If anything bad happens, complain to Amazon to sort it out; don't get too upset if it all doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world - Amazon will have your back.
I was at BestBuy the week before xmas returning a crappy tv and heard a loud crash around the corner, a forklift with 2 stacks of lcd tv's that weren't secured spilled both stacks onto the floor, all sets were also stacked flat which the printing of the box allways says never to do. The guy running the forklift said it was no big deal, luckily no customers were buried under the mountain of boxes. My estimate was that at least 40 tvs were dropped onto the floor. There were 2 screen sizes, 30 something and 40 something inch sets.
Liquid_Bike
Member
I picked up a Panasonic S60 for $650 Canadian yesterday. Once its delivered and I break it in I'll post my impressions. Right now I just excited to finally have a new set.
Been happy with my KDL-55W904A, finally 'tried' to capture how it actually looked when I'm using it, with the Canon 7D + 17-40 F/4L just two feet away... (really hard to get a good shot with all the moire and pixel patterns)
From Planet Earth HD-DVD
Scene: Cinema (stock)
From National Treasure Bluray on PS3
Scene: Cinema (stock) * those borders are really impressively black...
From Journey 2 : Mysterious Island (MKV) via built in Media Player
Scene: Auto/24fps (General - Stock)
Scene: Cinema (stock)
From Patrick Demsey Racing LeMans (MKV) via built in Media Player
Scene: Auto (General - stock)
Scene: Cinema (stock)
** Really having a hard time convincing myself to calibrate this set.
From Planet Earth HD-DVD
Scene: Cinema (stock)
From National Treasure Bluray on PS3
Scene: Cinema (stock) * those borders are really impressively black...
From Journey 2 : Mysterious Island (MKV) via built in Media Player
Scene: Auto/24fps (General - Stock)
Scene: Cinema (stock)
From Patrick Demsey Racing LeMans (MKV) via built in Media Player
Scene: Auto (General - stock)
Scene: Cinema (stock)
** Really having a hard time convincing myself to calibrate this set.
Yup, I like Cinema setting as well. The only caveat on this set is if there is a border, and the set is sitting higher than your eyesight, you'd gaze at a red convergence overlap at the very edge... like a RPTV strangely enough. And if you shine a flash on the screen, it comes back in rainbow colors, like it acts like a prism.
lostinblue
Banned
If it's a dedicated disc for the 3D version then yeah, well, it'll play if the player can handle 3D discs but the TV won't be able to figure out what the signal it's being fed is.
Some discs, like the Ultimate Wave 3D disc I mentioned above have a 2D version right on the disc which is choosable from the disc's menu.
The Hobbit version I have has a separate disc for the 2D and 3D versions though.
Fair Trial
Member
All 3D blu ray come with a 2d version included in the box or in the same disk right?
It should be a non-issue.
It should be a non-issue.
TV looks great, with the exception of the dark horizontal band just underneath the top of the screen. I'm hoping my second set doesn't have this as well.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
I had a 55" LED delivered and set up last year. I had a bad experience. The guys put so many hand and finger prints on my brand new screen, I was pissed. It was like these guys just squished a damn Mcdonalds hash brown with their hands before setting up my tv. The screen was greasy as hell after they left. They also connected the stand to the TV using an electric drill without a torque limiter, making it impossible to remove later.
I bought the TV from Best Buy, I'm not sure which company delivered it but they were not BB employees. I ended up returning it later because of some PQ issues.
I had a 60" VT60 delivered 2 days ago from Panasonic Direct. The box looked like shit, there was a hole about the size of a golf ball on the side ( not near the screen though) and a slightly smashed in edge. I was tempted to refuse delivery but I was too excited to wait another week for another one to arrive. I just told them to leave it on the floor. My gf and I were able to set it up in less than 10min. The VT60 is amazing BTW, no issues with my set at all.
If you're a bit anal about your electronics, like I am, I'd recommend setting it up yourself. It's easy as pie. Unless you don't have anyone to help you of course.