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[ethomaz]

I don't know about Splinter Cell, but both Assassins Creed Unity and Watch Dogs were release disasters. Raymond being a Producer certainly has a lot more responsibility on these releases than the creative merits of the games, as she wasn't any part of the creative teams but the state of the games being released sure is her responsibility as a Producer. Watch Dogs was even an infamous scam with a fake demo.

Ass Creed Unity has a USER score of 5.7
Watch Dogs has a USER score of 6.5

Disaster lol

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/watch_dogs-reviews.825439/

AC was just like Cyberpunk... unpolished and rushed to launch... after they fixed the game it is pretty good and considered the best AC in the franchise... but that change took time because the game was really rushed by Ubisoft... anybody that played it after 2016-2017 have a different ideia of the game... sadly these that played it at launch probably consider it the worst.
User scores means well... are there 0 in these users scores?

 

[Astral Dog]

Probably both. If they stay independent and ship a mega hit Sony Will have to pay 10 times the price or risk the likes of MS jumping in.

They should have bought the makers of dark souls when they had the chance. Even buying a big stake in the likes of epic.

Lol why would anyone want Sony to buy From, it would bw the same shit you are getting now but exclusive on console (with worse performance) they don't need to be bought

 

[FukuDaruma]

Disaster lol

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/watch_dogs-reviews.825439/

AC was just like Cyberpunk... unpolished and rushed to launch... after they fixed the game it is pretty good and considered the best AC in the franchise.
User scores means well... are there 0 in these users scores?

So here you are, downplaying the USER scores in comparision with the critics scores while mentioning Cyberpunk. The same Cyberpunk NONE of those critics mentioned the disastrous state it was in for "whatever reason", right?

 

[Camreezie]

So a sony game that's never coming?

 

[Topher]

She wasn't producer of Battlefront II. She was at this time running Motive Studios which was only making shitty single player campaign of it. They never even made their own game till she left. During her time in EA she was also in charge of Visceral Games which with her in helm was unable to finish their Star Wars game.

Yeah, but that Star Wars game never had a chance when EA came in after development had started and wanted to change the direction entirely from an Amy Henig single player experience to a live service game.

 

[ethomaz]

So here you are, downplaying the USER scores in comparision with the critics scores while mentioning Cyberpunk. The same Cyberpunk NONE of those critics mentioned the disastrous state it was in for "whatever reason", right?

Is Cyperpunk a bad game?
It is an unpolished, bugged, rushed game... something that should not happen in the industry but keep happening.

People that played it on PC or that played after it got back to PS Store seems to like it very much.

 

[FukuDaruma]

considered the best AC in the franchise... but that change took time because the game was really rushed by Ubisoft... anybody that played it after 2016-2017 have a different ideia of the game...

So it 'only' took 3 years to fix the game. Sure it's a great testament of the state the game was released in... which is where Raymond's responsibility as a Producer is, and not at all if the game is good or bad, as she is NOT part of the creative teams. She doesn't design or direct, so she has no part in the game being good or bad. Her work as a Producer has to do with the games being done on time and both games were delayed (Watch Dogs for 6 months) and the state the games were released, even after those delays they were famous disasters at release, specially Ass Creed Unity.

And ACU is not "considered the best AC in the franchise" btw, it is considered the prettiest, the best looking one. And still is. Looks better than Valhalla being 7 years older, and that has nothing to do with Raymond either, as she wasn't part of the art team or the coding team. But for the vast majority of people AC2 and Ezio character and story is the best hands down. Which, again, doesn't have anything to do with Raymond, as she wasn't part of the creative team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ethomaz]

So it 'only' took 3 years to fix the game. Sure it's a great testament of the state the game was released in... which is where Raymond's responsibility as a Producer is, and not at all if the game is good or bad, as she is NOT part of the creative teams. She doesn't design or direct, so she has no part in the game being good or bad. Her work as a Producer has to do with the games being done on time and both games were delayed (Watch Dogs for 6 months) and the state the games were released, even after those delays they were famous disasters at release, specially Ass Creed Unity.

And ACU is not "considered the best AC in the franchise" btw, it is considered the prettiest, the best looking one. And still is. Looks better than Valhalla being 7 years older, and that has nothing to do with Raymond either, as she wasn't part of the art team or the coding team. But for the vast majority of people AC2 and Ezio character and story is the best hands down. Which, again, doesn't have anything to do with Raymond, as she wasn't part of the creative team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

She was part of AC2 team too.
Boom lol

 

[FukuDaruma]

Is Cyperpunk a bad game?
It is an unpolished, bugged, rushed game... something that should not happen in the industry but keep happening.

People that played it on PC or that played after it got back to PS Store seems to like it very much.

Again... the Producer is not part of the teams that design or make the game. No part on the games being good or bad. They are responsible for the games to get made. And the state in which they are released.

Cyberpunk 2077 was a total disaster at launch, and none of those shill 'critics' mentioned shit about any of that in their 'honest' reviews.
A game you just buy and can't properly play because it's full of gamebreaking bugs and crashes sure is a BAD game. Even if ends up being decent or good after taking months or years to fix it just doesn't cut it for the people that paid for it months or years before, when the company decided it was ready for release and the Producer was responsible for it.

 

[FukuDaruma]

She was part of AC2 team too.
Boom lol

Which part of a Producer not being part of the CREATIVE team or responsible for a game ending being good or bad but the state it is released in you didn't understand? "boom" "lol"

 

[ethomaz]

Which part of a Producer not being part of the CREATIVE team or responsible for a game ending being good or bad but the state it is released in you didn't understand? "boom" "lol"

Which part of Producer be part of the team you don't understand?
I mean.
She has a new team with a Creative director and all.

Seems dumb but that is the reality... you guys are just being well weird.
Deny she worked in these game is one of the worst spin I saw in GAF.
Her name is in the Credits of the said games.

It is what she does after go up in the jobs (she started as developer).

You guys are getting on her feet because she is woman? I can't really understand.

Again... the Producer is not part of the teams that design or make the game. No part on the games being good or bad. They are responsible for the games to get made. And the state in which they are released.

Cyberpunk 2077 was a total disaster at launch, and none of those shill 'critics' mentioned shit about any of that in their 'honest' reviews.
A game you just buy and can't properly play because it's full of gamebreaking bugs and crashes sure is a BAD game. Even if ends up being decent or good after taking months or years to fix it just doesn't cut it for the people that paid for it months or years before, when the company decided it was ready for release and the Producer was responsible for it.

Ok.

You need some context.

No reviewer received the last gen version to review... they reviewed the PC version where most of the crash didn't exists or happened way lesser than consoles.
They asked about the others versions but it was said they could only watch some video of the last gen versions with some framerate issues but it was promised the day one patch should fix it.

CDPR here is all to blame.
I indeed feel not good at the "critic" that believed in the CDPR lies but they were like us... blind... maybe they should say more in the article (some said that is why or know the behind the scenes).
CDPR knows the game was not finished but they could not delay it again (probably they were in heavy pressure and in need of first day sales $$$).
For me CDPR management was the worst shit ever.

Said that the game is for these that played the PC version of the best games they ever played.
You can look at GAF from PC players playing it.... it is something really good there.

 

[tmlDan]

Which part of a Producer not being part of the CREATIVE team or responsible for a game ending being good or bad but the state it is released in you didn't understand? "boom" "lol"

If you read even one interview she indicates how she is happy to move away from being an executive and happy to make games again (like at Ubisoft) - her title is irrelevant.

She is involved in this game.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Which part of Producer be part of the team you don't understand?
I mean.
She has a new team with a Creative director and all.

Seems dumb but that is the reality... you guys are just being well weird.
Deny she worked in these game is one of the worst spin I saw in GAF.
Her name is in the Credits of the said games.

That's because you are an hypocrite purposedly and desperately trying to manipulate what I *really* said, which remains true: A PRODUCER/MANAGING Director is not part of the * CREATIVE * team. And that is why you have to resort to this manipulative tactic. Nobody is "denying she worked on these games". That is just a patheticly desperate 'straw man' non argument on your part.

The PRODUCER and MANAGING Director is not responsible for the game being good or bad *in the end*, as she does NOT design, code or direct the game itself. Her responsibilities are in HOW the game gets made, if the development meets the set milestones and certainly the STATE in which the game is released to the public, even after the delays.

You guys are getting on her feet because she is woman? I can't really understand.

Yes, "you guys" sure get down at her feet just because she is/was a HOT woman. Specially the slimy media giving her all that disproportionate coverage.

Let's compare with a real CREATIVE talent:

...which gets almost half the coverage:

I just wonder why would this be...

But at this point, I'm really expecting only more manipulative fallacies coming from you.

 

[ethomaz]

That's because you are an hypocrite purposedly and desperately trying to manipulate what I *really* said, which remains true: A PRODUCER/MANAGING Director is not part of the CREATIVE team. And that is why you have to resort to this manipulative tactic. Nobody is "denying she worked on these games". That is just a patheticly desperate 'straw man' non argument on your part.

The PRODUCER and MANAGING Director is not responsible for the game being good or bad *in the end*, as she does NOT design, code or direct the game itself. Her responsibilities are in HOW the game gets made, if the development meets the set milestones and certainly the STATE in which the game is released to the public, even after the delays.


Yes, "you guys" sure get on her feet just because she is/was a HOT woman. Specially the slimy media giving her all that disproportionate coverage.

Let's compare with a real CREATIVE talent:

...which gets almost half the attention:

I just wonder why would this be...

But at this point, I'm really expecting only more manipulative fallacies coming from you.

Man you have issues lol
Jade Raymond probably killed somebody closer to you or something like lol

You know she continues working with games like always did.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Man you have issues lol
Jade Raymond probably killed somebody closer to you or something like lol

You know she continues working with games like always did.

Now an Ad Hominem. Exactly as predicted and expected. "lol"

I'm just not an incel drooling over a hot woman, and sick of the ones who are.

 

[Topher]

That's because you are an hypocrite purposedly and desperately trying to manipulate what I *really* said, which remains true: A PRODUCER/MANAGING Director is not part of the * CREATIVE * team. And that is why you have to resort to this manipulative tactic. Nobody is "denying she worked on these games". That is just a patheticly desperate 'straw man' non argument on your part.

The PRODUCER and MANAGING Director is not responsible for the game being good or bad *in the end*, as she does NOT design, code or direct the game itself. Her responsibilities are in HOW the game gets made, if the development meets the set milestones and certainly the STATE in which the game is released to the public, even after the delays.


Yes, "you guys" sure get down at her feet just because she is/was a HOT woman. Specially the slimy media giving her all that disproportionate coverage.

Let's compare with a real CREATIVE talent:

...which gets almost half the coverage:

I just wonder why would this be...

But at this point, I'm really expecting only more manipulative fallacies coming from you.

Interestingly enough, both Henig and Raymond made the bad decision to work for EA after Naughty Dog and Ubisoft, respectively. Raymond made an even worse decision to work for Google on Stadia. Hening obviously has a longer and more illustrious career as a game director and writer, but she isn't without her own bumps in the road. Either way, it isn't a very good comparison overall as the common denominator is simply being a woman.

The argument that Raymond is known just because she is a good looking woman is a bit absurd, imo. If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing.

 

[ethomaz]

Now an Ad Hominem. Exactly as predicted and expected. "lol"

I'm just not an incel drooling over a hot woman, and sick of the ones who do.

Man what being woman or not has anything with what I explained to you lol
You focus too much in her genre instead what she did in the industry.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The argument that Raymond is known just because she is a good looking woman is a bit absurd, imo. If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing.

Good point.

 

[ethomaz]

Interestingly enough, both Henig and Raymond made the bad decision to work for EA after Naughty Dog and Ubisoft, respectively. Raymond made an even worse decision to work for Google on Stadia. Hening obviously has a longer and more illustrious career as a game director and writer, but she isn't without her own bumps in the road. Either way, it isn't a very good comparison overall as the common denominator is simply being a woman.

The argument that Raymond is known just because she is a good looking woman is a bit absurd, imo. If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing.

Exactly.

But hey people keep moving the goal genre issues to try to trash her… I mean WTF?

Seems like she killed are lot of closer ones here lol

Before enter the thread I didn’t thought (or forget she was woman… I realized the same thing in the last thread that I did not engage like in this one) Jade Ryamound is a woman because the name to think in a man name… but after I realize everybody was talking about her genre lol

His curriculum tells more about her capabilities than the whole thread here.

 

[InverseAgonist]

But at this point, I'm really expecting only more manipulative fallacies coming from you.

I really don't want to get involved and, frankly, don't care.

But you did leave out the fact that Amy Hennig is ridiculously and highly appreciated as a superstar. It's not like there's only one metric -- google hits -- that measures success and achievement in an industry. We have this same 'problem' in the scientific world where people just look at mainstream recognition and interviews instead of everything including Impact Factor or H-index or legacy of work.

You didn't quote the following for some reason:

 

[FukuDaruma]

Either way, it isn't a very good comparison overall as the common denominator is simply being a woman.

Because that was an answer to this non-argument:

The argument that Raymond is known just because she is a good looking woman is a bit absurd, imo. If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing.

The argument is NOT that she "is known", but that she has been consistently getting a disproportionate amount of media coverage for her real merits and career.

 

[FukuDaruma]

I really don't want to get involved and, frankly, don't care.

But you did leave out the fact that Amy Hennig is ridiculously and highly appreciated as a superstar. It's not like there's only one metric -- google hits -- that measures success and achievement in an industry. We have this same 'problem' in the scientific world where people just look at mainstream recognition and interviews instead of everything including Impact Factor or H-index or legacy of work.

You didn't quote the following for some reason:

Well... exactly. I didn't pick just a lower tier to compare, but certainly one of the TOP women in the industry you can find, with a *creative* career on top of it, which makes for a much more interesting profile than a producer/manager one.
And she has almost half the mentions as Raymond...

Sure there are more metrics than google hits, but it's impossible to quantify the relevance of each one among thousands and thousands. The google hits show a wide global picture of the amount of coverage given to each one.

 

[FukuDaruma]

The argument that Raymond is known just because she is a good looking woman is a bit absurd, imo. If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing.

And that's why we all know so much about all the other dudes with *pure Producer/Managing profiles and there has been that much media coverage about them too...

*I hope at this point we don't go back to insist in absurdly compare Raymond's profile, merits and career to those of Miyazaki, Harrison or Yoshida, even when it's already being noted that she has the same number of mentions than Shu despite having a career with A LOT less importance and longevity.

 

[Topher]

Because that was an answer to this non-argument:

The argument is NOT that she "is known", but that she has been consistently getting a disproportionate amount of media coverage for her real merits and career.

And that's why we all know so much about all the other dudes with *pure Producer/Managing profiles and there has been that much media coverage about them too...

*I hope at this point we don't go back to insist in absurdly compare Raymond's profile, merits and career to those of Miyazaki, Harrison or Yoshida, even when it's already being noted that she has the same number of mentions than Shu despite having a career with A LOT less importance and longevity.

If we are going to blame anyone for Raymond's media coverage then it should be the media. They do tend to like a pretty face.

I don't plan to make absurd comparisons at all. That includes "number of mentions". She is the CEO of a studio that was just acquired by Sony. Of course her mentions are going to be high.

 

[01011001]

Yes, "you guys" sure get down at her feet just because she is/was a HOT woman. Specially the slimy media giving her all that disproportionate coverage.

Let's compare with a real CREATIVE talent:

...which gets almost half the coverage:

this right here
Jade Raymond hasn't worked on anything of value, and the rare good games she is credited in usually had her be a manager or being mainly there to roll the PR drum

she made Splinter Cell a dumbed down shell of its former self and stole the limelight for Assassin's Creed 2's success from the true person behind the game.
The Legacy of Kain series alone puts Henning on another level (although the Uncharted series is an unfortunate blemish on her resume)

 

[mansoor1980]

even uncle phil is happy for JADE and SONY

 

[FukuDaruma]

If we are going to blame anyone for Raymond's media coverage then it should be the media. They do tend to like a pretty face.

That's what I've been saying all this time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And that she has been profiting from it also, which I guess anybody would have done too.

I don't plan to make absurd comparisons at all. That includes "number of mentions". She is the CEO of a studio that was just acquired by Sony. Of course her mentions are going to be high.

It is not about this one, it's the sum of all the coverage over the years. I already said it many times. It's been "Jade Raymond this, Jade Raymond that" for many many years, for a non-creative managerial career with some hits but many disastrous releases and nothing at all released for many years.

Her "number of mentions" matching the much more relevant Shuei Yoshida and almost doubling the ones of a more important creative profile like Amy Henig's is not absurd at all, wether it fits your prejudice or not. It's certainly a lot more objective than pulling a pure opinion from a pure hypothetical "If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing".

 

[ethomaz]

She definitely hurt some here lol

 

[yurinka]

So a sony game that's never coming?

I don't what are you talking about.

In Ubisoft Toronto worked (and I assume they still work) in 5 projects at the same time. In Ubisoft Montreal even more. In Motive they were in Amy Henning's Star Wars, Battlefront 2, Squadrons, an unannounced new IP and the Dead Space reboot.

Hermen Hulst said he's impressed about tthe progress Haven made on their first year, they achieved their milestones faster than expected in that project they started in Google.

 

[Topher]

That's what I've been saying all this time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And that she has been profiting from it also, which I guess anybody would have done too.


It is not about this one, it's the sum of all the coverage over the years. I already said it many times. It's been "Jade Raymond this, Jade Raymond that" for years, for a non-creative managerial career with many disastrous releases and nothing at all released for many years.

Her "number of mentions" matching the much more relevant Shuei Yoshida and almost doubling the ones of a more important creative profile like Amy Henig's is not absurd at all, wether it fits your prejudice or not. It's certainly a lot more objective than pulling a pure opinion from a pure hypothetical "If she was a dude with her exact same credentials no one would say a thing".

So.......Yoshida needs to start wearing a bikini?

 

[FukuDaruma]

So.......Yoshida needs to start wearing a bikini?

Sure, sure. Another great 'argument'.

 

[Topher]

Sure, sure. Another great 'argument'.

Reductio ad absurdum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SSfox]

I the end i just hope it will be good, a lot of talented Ubi that made Ubisoft, if their game can have a taste of the PS2/PS3 Ubi era that would be amazing

 

[SSfox]

Only reason why she gets attention is due to being decent looking woman. You rarely see that in gaming as it's almost all men doing the promoting. When all dolled up in her earlier pics, she looks good. Have her less dolled up showing that Joker smile and she's not has hot as her professional photographed pics.

If Raymond was a fat pig, nobody would care about her. She's just be another gaming exec. Just like all the other high level employees that worked with her at UBI, how often do you hear about them? Hardly ever as they are just another group of dudes in gaming.

No she's talented, i mean she's a bit overrated by some horny crowd but saying she is nothing is so wrong, she is not Kojima or Cory Barlog but she has some high level, she contributed into the beginning of iconic franchises that defined Ubisot.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

According to an interview the main Haven team comes mainly from 3 groups: people who worked in the original (plus many of them in sequels) AC, people who worked in Watchdogs 1 & 2, people who worked on Rainbow Six Siege. And people who followed her from Motive and Google that in many cases are people of these 3 groups. On top of that they also hired senior staff from places like Insomniac or Rockstar.

Maybe you don't personally like these games, but they were very successful. Games are made for different types of players with different tastes, maybe these ones weren't for you.

For Sony even if they are a new studio, they are an experienced team who worked in several very successful AAA games in many cases together. A bit like Kojipro but the Haven worked on AAA games whose sales more than doubled the ones of the MGS games.

If sales is what you want from these games, you should look at the marketing team instead. Personally, I am interested in the quality of the games. AC and Watchdogs were both massively underwhelming.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Well, I bet Shu's popularity and media coverage would multiply x100 if he were giving interviews and presenting Playstations looking like this...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Well, I bet Shu's popularity and media coverage would multiply x100 if he was giving interviews and presenting Playstations looking like this...

I might be missing the joke here...but that's not Jade Raymond.

 

[Topher]

Well, I bet Shu's popularity and media coverage would multiply x100 if he were giving interviews and presenting Playstations looking like this...

I might be missing the joke here...but that's not Jade Raymond.

I was wondering about that.

 

[FukuDaruma]

I might be missing the joke here...but that's not Jade Raymond.

The media don't miss the joke.

You won’t beleive who will be the next creative producer of the next Star Wars game! - theGeek.games

theGeek.games

thegeek.games

 

[Topher]

The media don't miss the joke.

You won’t beleive who will be the next creative producer of the next Star Wars game! - theGeek.games

theGeek.games

thegeek.games

If that is her then she bought one hell of a push-up bra.

 

[yurinka]

If sales is what you want from these games, you should look at the marketing team instead. Personally, I am interested in the quality of the games. AC and Watchdogs were both massively underwhelming.

What a joke. Games sell over a dozen million copies and their sequels keep selling that not because their fans like them. No, sales aren't related to people finding the game appealing, and liking them so they buy the sequel. They only buy games because of the marketing campaing.

Your personal taste is only your personal taste. It's ok to don't like these games. But it's a fact that they are very successful. These two plus most of the other ones where she worked as a producer or executive producer, plus the shit ton of other games she didn't produce but were developed in the studios she built and lead. Or the new IPs Ubisoft created while she was the Executive producer responsible for the Ubisoft new ips.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Where was this energy when Microsoft let Peter Molynieux play with his dick for 15 years on their dime and not release a single thing.

 

[Snake29]

Where was this energy when Microsoft let Peter Molynieux play with his dick for 15 years on their dime and not release a single thing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Where was this energy when Microsoft let Peter Molynieux play with his dick for 15 years on their dime and not release a single thing.

I don’t believe it’s been 15 years since Sony bought Haven.

 

[ethomaz]

I might be missing the joke here...but that's not Jade Raymond.

I don’t think that is her too… she looked like that in the past:

I’m not sure why people use that other picture.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

What a joke. Games sell over a dozen million copies and their sequels keep selling that not because their fans like them. No, sales aren't related to people finding the game appealing, and liking them so they buy the sequel. They only buy games because of the marketing campain.

Your personal taste is only your personal taste. It's ok to don't like these games. But it's a fact that they are very successful. These two plus most of the other ones where she worked as a producer or executive producer, plus the shit ton of other games she didn't produce but were developed in the studios she built and lead. Or the new IPs Ubisoft created while she was the Executive producer responsible for the Ubisoft new ips.

Well duh. You spend hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing every year on something and keep making it better - you’re bound to make a successful franchise, even if the first game is poor. Look at Far Cry. And you forget that AC2 is what made the AC franchise. It’s fine if you want to revise history about how those original games were received though. Watch Dogs lived off that stunning demo for years. And you keep talking about my tastes as if consensus out there isn’t a thing.

 

[Topher]

Probably best to stop prejudging her and see the game she is making. You think?

 

[ethomaz]

Probably best to stop prejudging her and see the game she is making. You think?

Nah she probably bullied a lot of posters here… she deserves hell

 

[DeepEnigma]

even uncle phil is happy for JADE and SONY

Look fans, he’s leading by example.

 

[EDMIX]

It is not about this one, it's the sum of all the coverage over the years.

The fuck are you talking about? How and why would that be an equal thing? Maybe one is more active on social media or something. As in Anita Sarkeesian literally has over 468,000 results....she also didn't spend decades making games bud.

I don't know what to tell you but, popularity isn't some fucking moral right or based on feelings or based on how long someone was in an industry etc, lots of things determine that. So Raymond has worked on some of the biggest properties in all of gaming on top of remaining active on social media, more folks mentioning her simply means more current events are happening around her.