PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around

Deadstar said:
If the scorpio is as powerful as it is you can be sure I will be buying multiplatform games on that console instead of the ps4, especially if there is a big gap in terms of visuals.
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It would be silly not to.

The only question is whether a very, very large number of users are going to be willing to switch eco-systems in the middle of the generation. That's what MS would need to make a come-back this gen.
 
Curufinwe said:
The most insane thing I have read on this forum this week, and I've seen it from multiple people, is that PS4 Pro was a reaction to Scorpio. There is literally nothing to support that contention, but this quote from House will come in handy.
Click to expand...

Is up there with "Sony making a new console was a reaction to NX"
 
I actually thought Scorpio was leaked first as being a thing happening (Spencer talking about refreshes on hardware lines).

That said, I don't think either company is being all that inventive. They are just stealing the iphone model of yearly (or biannual in this case) updates to hardware.

And the Xbox S actually came out first with 4K content (UHD, 4K streaming, HDR).

So I think it is somewhat evident that both teams probably came up with this idea independent of the other, MS just wanted to wait until a larger iterative jump was possible, realized Sony would move first and announced their own jump ahead of time.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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what's the textual equivalent of saying someone's in love with the sound of their own voice
 
Think Sony will be safe with PS4 PRO , the price is good and features enought to see a difference toward current PS4

Microsoft will sell better with its Slim Xbone but basically is the same machine and does not means Sony will Stop selling PS4 like pancakes

Once Scorpion is released , price and power gap will make Sony keep their current line or anounce PS5 by 2019-2020.
 
seems to me MS was reacting not Sony. MS is still planning Scorpio, while Pro is in production as we speak. OP needs to chill
 
Toki767 said:
From a business standpoint, it allows them to continue to sell a $400 product which generates more revenue.

It's the same reason why Apple releases an iPhone every year.

They aren't reacting to anything.
Click to expand...
Do you even believe in what you're saying yourself? Apple would be close to forgotten within 2 years with no new phones, the industry is moving so fast that even one phone per year might not be enough. They aren't just reacting at this point, they're trying to catch up, over and over again, year after year.
And Sony would obviously make more money by just keep making the original PS4 more cost effective to produce than make a new console. The R&D for Pro is not free.
 
RichiRamjag said:
Who has their head in the sand?
Click to expand...

The people that think others don't think console power will influence people to buy one over the other. That's a huge reason people buy consoles over another. Power and price.

If power didn't matter, why would there be so many PC gamers out there talking about their rigs and how powerful they are and all that.

That's who I mean.
 
BRocknRolla said:
It would be silly not to.

The only question is whether a very, very large number of users are going to be willing to switch eco-systems in the middle of the generation. That's what MS would need to make a come-back this gen.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what happened this gen? People gravitated towards the most powerful console.

Last gen I bought my games on whatever system ran the best or looked the best. It was mainly xbox for me and this time it is ps4. I'm in both ecosystems and I can jump to whichever is better. Xbox is slow and looks worse than ps4 this gen so I buy almost everything on ps4.
 
Fredrik said:
Do you even believe in what you're saying yourself? Apple would be close to forgotten within 2 years with no new phones, the industry is moving so fast that even one phone per year might not be enough. They aren't just reacting at this point, they're trying to catch up, over and over again, year after year.
And Sony would obviously make more money by just keep making the original PS4 more cost effective to produce than make a new console. The R&D for Pro is not free.
Click to expand...

Most people do not upgrade their phones every year. A lot of people don't even upgrade their phones every 2 years.

So I have to question whether you're the one that even believes in what you're saying.
 
CrazE said:
The people that think others don't think console power will influence people to buy one over the other. That's a huge reason people buy consoles over another. Power and price.

If power didn't matter, why would there be so many PC gamers out there talking about their rigs and how powerful they are and all that.

That's who I mean.
Click to expand...

If power mattered all that much, then why aren't we all PC gamers? Why don't we all drive muscle cars? Why do iPhones do so well against more powerful android devices? Again... It matters to some, to some it doesn't. You're always going to have casuals and enthusiasts. This is a silly hill to die on. The thing has a year long headstart so it doesn't even matter tbh. It has no competition in that space console-wise.
 
Just look at the ps meeting, i love how sony when about in a low key as a matter of fact way.

No big words like apple or no hyping paper specs as if the next thing. Just facts and real demos.

This is the approach sony is taking, i feel confident they got their shit mapped out. Reactive, no way.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
Click to expand...

Agree.
 
CrazE said:
The people that think others don't think console power will influence people to buy one over the other. That's a huge reason people buy consoles over another. Power and price.

If power didn't matter, why would there be so many PC gamers out there talking about their rigs and how powerful they are and all that.

That's who I mean.
Click to expand...
*Only in countries where both are in close competition. Countries like germany where there is a 3:1 or more sales advantage those things mean little especially why XB1.
 
wapplew said:
That 4K bluray lack of will be the opening for MS and biggest mistake for Sony this generation.
/s

Just a reminder, the idea of enhance PS4 first brought up at October 2015, 5 months before famous Xbox1.5 first mention.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20151021121/
Click to expand...
I disagree completely and think house is spot on with streaming and digital being a big trend. I think the outcry for a 4K player is coming purely for forums, which is not representative of the majority of the userbase.

Blu-Ray looks just fine for most people and honestly so does streaming and digital.

When/if a higher player matters will be years from now and Sony can adjust accordingly.
 
timlot said:
I would suggest that ‘reactive’ isn’t our approach this time around,” he said.
Click to expand...

And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
Click to expand...

did anyone get the license number of the pr truck that hit him?
 
Toki767 said:
Most people do not upgrade their phones every year. A lot of people don't even upgrade their phones every 2 years.

So I have to question whether you're the one that even believes in what you're saying.
Click to expand...

It's all about giving consumers the ability to upgrade when the want. Many consumers will skip this upcoming iPhone in favor of the next one.
 
ultrazilla said:
And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
Click to expand...
I really dont get how any of this is arrogant.
 
ultrazilla said:
And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
Click to expand...
I hope some of you are joking I really sincerely do
 
RichiRamjag said:
If power mattered all that much, then why aren't we all PC gamers? Why don't we all drive muscle cars? Why do iPhones do so well against more powerful android devices? Again... It matters to some, to some it doesn't. You're always going to have casuals and enthusiasts. This is a silly hill to die on. The thing has a year long headstart so it doesn't even matter tbh. It has no competition in that space console-wise.
Click to expand...
Not to mention, why is this gen the first in history where the powerful console is actually winning?
 
prwxv3 said:
It's all about giving consumers the ability to upgrade when the want. Many consumers will skip this upcoming iPhone in favor of the next one.
Click to expand...

It's about justifying being able to still charge full price on your flagship rather than simply doing price drops on old models.

It's the same business tactics as any technology business. TVs, phones, computers, even cars.

A new model every year so that they can charge the same price.
 
ultrazilla said:
And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
Click to expand...
Sony doesn't expect you to buy all of their random products, including every SKU of every product line.
 
Deadstar said:
Isn't that what happened this gen? People gravitated towards the most powerful console.

Last gen I bought my games on whatever system ran the best or looked the best. It was mainly xbox for me and this time it is ps4. I'm in both ecosystems and I can jump to whichever is better. Xbox is slow and looks worse than ps4 this gen so I buy almost everything on ps4.
Click to expand...

Power was never that important in any gen ever. If power was important, AAA games wouldn't sell 3 to 4 times more on consoles than on PC. And the most successful PC games won't be the games that can run on toasters.

And Bayonetta wouldn't sell like shit on X360 compared to PS3, despite the game having the biggest difference in performance for the entire generation.

People arguing over pixels on message boards are an extremely small minority.

Did you forget the most successful console last gen? Or the gen before that?
 
CrazE said:
So? Did this stop Sony or MS from making their games and consoles with the Wii crushing everyone last gen?

Nope.



LOL at this post! Majority don't care about power? What was all the 1080p vs 900p shit talking all about then? What was all the people saying they'll buy 3rd party games on the PS4 because it's more powerful for? Ha ha... some of you have your heads in the sand on this.
Click to expand...

A niche debate restricted to niche people (enthusiasts gamers) on a gaming enthusiast website (GAF). Time for mass market has come for PS4 and in the grand scheme of things, we, here, at Neogaf are not representative at all of this targeted demographic .
 
Deadstar said:
Isn't that what happened this gen? People gravitated towards the most powerful console.

Last gen I bought my games on whatever system ran the best or looked the best. It was mainly xbox for me and this time it is ps4. I'm in both ecosystems and I can jump to whichever is better. Xbox is slow and looks worse than ps4 this gen so I buy almost everything on ps4.
Click to expand...

It's not the same though as that was a definitive end and beginning of a generation.

Neither console was offering backwards compatibility, so there was a clear separation, allowing people to pick a new eco-system if they so chose. I'm sure there were plenty of people on both sides of things that simply went with whatever brand they'd previously purchased (A silly thing in my opinion unless people hang the majority of their enjoyment on an exclusive franchise), but I'm also sure there are plenty of people like us who are platform agnostic and go wherever their games look best. I too switched from 360 to PS4 for the very reasons you discussed.

If you're in both eco-systems already, then there probably isn't a lot for you to consider. But I imagine there aren't a lot of people will to spend money on two online services, 4 different consoles, and who may have amassed quite a supply of digital games on one of the two consoles at this point. Those people are likely to have a harder time switching at this point, even if a new, more powerful version of a console comes out. It goes to both sides.

ultrazilla said:
And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
Click to expand...

The insanity of someone taking Sony's tech decisions and taking it as a personal insult is so crazy as to make me think this is a joke.
 
ultrazilla said:
And neither is my wallet.

How arrogant. A perfect example of becoming complacent and basically giving a big "fuck you" to supporters who wanted/expected a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Microsoft should be sending Sony thank you cards for this.
Click to expand...

Maybe that, or... they're just staying true to what set them on this ps4 path in the first place - being about the games?

They didn't put a niche video disc player in their new refreshed ps4, such arrogance!
 
Servbot24 said:
Sony doesn't expect you to buy all of their random products, including every SKU of every product line.
Click to expand...

Yes they just want you to buy in the ecosystem itself . They are not expecting every ps4 user to upgrade. But there are plenty of users that will.
 
StoOgE said:
I actually thought Scorpio was leaked first as being a thing happening (Spencer talking about refreshes on hardware lines).

That said, I don't think either company is being all that inventive. They are just stealing the iphone model of yearly (or biannual in this case) updates to hardware.

And the Xbox S actually came out first with 4K content (UHD, 4K streaming, HDR).

So I think it is somewhat evident that both teams probably came up with this idea independent of the other, MS just wanted to wait until a larger iterative jump was possible, realized Sony would move first and announced their own jump ahead of time.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we're really at the point where we can suggest the manufacturers are moving to a biennial model. The Pro is coming out three years after the PS4 and Scorpio four years after the Xbox One. I think we're most likely to be in a triennial situation than biennial, in any case, with the next PlayStation hitting in 2019. I can't help but feel a two year cycle will be extremely hard to swallow.

It's certainly not biannual (happening twice a year)!
 
Toki767 said:
Most people do not upgrade their phones every year. A lot of people don't even upgrade their phones every 2 years.

So I have to question whether you're the one that even believes in what you're saying.
Click to expand...
I work in the electronics industry so I definitely believe in what I'm saying, the R&D cost of making a new product is enormous and if you could you would very much like to keep producing the same product for 10 years with no update in need for R&D, but you can't do that unless you have no competitors, so you react, you check what your competitors do, and you make a better product, over and over.

Sony, while leading the industry right now, obviously reacted to something, otherwise the Pro would never be here. I don't know what they reacted to though. Too weak hardware for PSVR in comparison to PCVR? NX will be more powerful or too close in performance? Too many people jumping ship to PC? Rumours of Microsoft updating XB1? I have no idea what happened but this idea didn't pop up just to have a reason to keep the price of one of their consoles at $399.
 
Pretty disappointed here. I had a really bad experience with Sony's support. That, along with the raised price of a lackluster PS+ and an upgraded PS4 that is barely that... I'm starting to think I should get back into PC gaming. Sony seems like they're starting to make poor choices again.
 
Okay I've been seeing people talking shit on one particular point of the PS4Pro everywhere, so I'll just ask about this right here:

Why are people under the impression that the Scorpio will be much more powerful than this?

We haven't seen a single game running on Scorpio, right? We've just seen them say it does 4K and it has some number of teraflops. Like, I don't really understand why everyone's saying "PS4Pro won't hold a candle to Scorpio" and all this stuff. Is there something I missed? Maybe it's just because I'm PC-centric and I know just how ridiculously taxing it is to run true 4K games, but it doesn't make sense why people think either of these systems will provide much more than a resolution boost when running on a 4K TV.
 
Carn82 said:
With territories, you currently mean 'the whole world'?
Click to expand...

Well to be fair the US and UK are quite affectionate to the Xbox brand., even if the PS4 is generally selling more there.

Whereas there are certain countries that don't even care the Xbox exists, and a more powerful console isn't going to make them stand up and pay attention.
 
Adam_Roman said:
Okay I've been seeing people talking shit on one particular point of the PS4Pro everywhere, so I'll just ask about this right here:

Why are people under the impression that the Scorpio will be much more powerful than this?

We haven't seen a single game running on Scorpio, right? We've just seen them say it does 4K and it has some number of teraflops. Like, I don't really understand why everyone's saying "PS4Pro won't hold a candle to Scorpio" and all this stuff. Is there something I missed? Maybe it's just because I'm PC-centric and I know just how ridiculously taxing it is to run true 4K games, but it doesn't make sense why people think either of these systems will provide much more than a resolution boost when running on a 4K TV.
Click to expand...

Well in terms of raw power, 6tflops is more powerful than 4.2tflops.
 
Fredrik said:
I work in the electronics industry so I definitely believe in what I'm saying, the R&D cost of making a new product is enormous and if you could you would very much like to keep producing the same product for 10 years with no update in need for R&D, but you can't do that unless you have no competitors, so you react, you check what your competitors do, and you make a better product, over and over.

Sony, while leading the industry right now, obviously reacted to something, otherwise the Pro would never be here. I don't know what they reacted to though.
Click to expand...

That question is answered in the article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

Regarding the PlayStation 4 Pro, he suggested the Xbox wasn’t even being considered its main competition. Rather, it was the PC. “I saw some data that really influenced me,” he said. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”
Click to expand...
 
You know, I'm not really upset about the lack of a UHD drive. It's not really there yet. There's been like 5 movies released on it. And I rarely buy movies as it is. I tend to watch them once and I'm good. I use streaming services like Netflix and YouTube most of the time. I'm fine with them focusing on keeping the price down for a gaming console.
 
Fredrik said:
I work in the electronics industry so I definitely believe in what I'm saying, the R&D cost of making a new product is enormous and if you could you would very much like to keep producing the same product for 10 years with no update in need for R&D, but you can't do that unless you have no competitors, so you react, you check what your competitors do, and you make a better product, over and over.

Sony, while leading the industry right now, obviously reacted to something, otherwise the Pro would never be here. I don't know what they reacted to though. Too weak hardware for PSVR in comparison to PCVR? NX will be more powerful or too close in performance? Too many people jumping ship to PC? Rumours of Microsoft updating XB1? I have no idea what happened but this idea didn't pop up just to have a reason to keep the price of one of their consoles at $399.
Click to expand...
I recommend you read what Verendus posted on the last page.

He's a well known Sony employee and gives a detailed answer as to why PS4 Pro exists.
 
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