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[Aaron Strife]

Been playing Blue off and on the last few days. Should I roll with Spearow instead of Pidgey? I read some stuff online that it is the better choice.

Gold and Silver were my first Pokemon games but I played Gen 1 right after so this is totally a trip down memory lane.

Spearow is better in-game because it has access to more Flying type moves. Starts out with Peck, gets Drill Peck later. Pidgey only gets Wing Attack which sucks in Gen 1.

Stat-wise Fearow is better than Pidgeot too, I believe. Dodrio (who comes later) beats both of them though.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Been playing Blue off and on the last few days. Should I roll with Spearow instead of Pidgey? I read some stuff online that it is the better choice.

Gold and Silver were my first Pokemon games but I played Gen 1 right after so this is totally a trip down memory lane.

Yes. Pidgey won't naturally learn a flying-type move until level 28, 31 if you evolve to Pidgeotto, while Spearow starts with one. And it's Wing Attack, which has a base power of 35, less than Quick Attack, making it borderline unusable in Gen 1. Both are utterly outdone by Doduo/Dodrio, which you can pick up at Celadon (with a bike) anyways, so feel free to ditch either of them at that point.

EDIT: Beaten like a Farfetch'd.

 

[Vibranium]

Spearow is better in-game because it has access to more Flying type moves. Starts out with Peck, gets Drill Peck later. Pidgey only gets Wing Attack which sucks in Gen 1.

Stat-wise Fearow is better than Pidgeot too, I believe. Dodrio (who comes later) beats both of them though.

Yes. Pidgey won't naturally learn a flying-type move until level 28, 31 if you evolve to Pidgeotto, while Spearow starts with one. And it's Wing Attack, which has a base power of 35, less than Quick Attack, making it borderline unusable in Gen 1. Both are utterly outdone by Doduo/Dodrio, which you can pick up at Celadon (with a bike) anyways, so feel free to ditch either of them at that point.

EDIT: Beaten like a Farfetch'd.

Thanks guys, I never paid much attention to stats as a kid. I'll be sure to grab Doduo too.

 

[Crayolan]

Good lord, Mews catch rate is ridiculous. I'm on my 3rd attempt of catching it with 13 Pokeballs and it's PAR and at as low health i can safely get it

I'm pretty sure Mew doesn't have a legendary catch rate. You're just having bad luck.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

I'm pretty sure Mew doesn't have a legendary catch rate. You're just having bad luck.

Mew has a catch rate of 45, which with the Pokeballs everyone's throwing in Cerulean means it's not too far off. It's not a walk in the park at that early stage, where Caterpie has a catch rate of 255.

 

[Arcia]

I'm pretty sure Mew doesn't have a legendary catch rate. You're just having bad luck.

Its capture rate is actually 45, which puts it in the same league with most fully evolved Pokemon. Harder to catch than normal, but not throw-50-balls-at-it-at-1-HP-for-hours hard.

Edit: bah, beaten. oh well

 

[//ARCANUM]

Okay... so I haven't played gen 1 since I was a kid so I barely remember it.

But yeah... this....

And it has a move called
HARDEN

Oh and
STRING SHOT

where it literally shoots strings of .... something out of it's head.

Pokémon.... what were you doing to kids? What is this madness???

 

[kyo2004]

So, replaying yesterday the adventure after a busy week... Now on Celadon City

https://youtu.be/Qf4Ulibihms

My OG Team is almost complete (just beaten Giovanny @ Rocket Hideout for Silph Scope)

Saitama (Blastoise): Lv. 40
Birdie (Pidgeotto): Lv. 35
Mr. Slash (Sandslash): Lv. 26
Master Dig (Dugtrio): Lv. 26
TheRock (Graveler): Lv. 25

Only Lapras is left (on Saffron) but first I'm going to Fuchsia for a Safari Trip (and get the Surf and Strength HM's)

I know that's not the best team I can make (half team ground really is a bad idea)... But the nostalgia is so strong... XD... And Sandslash is so OP with nearly 100% Critical Slash (EQ coming soon)...

 

[perfectchaos007]

No-one knows - Pokemon Bank isn't available yet for R/B/Y. It's unlikely that Missingno will be able to be sent to it though.

Ah I must have missed that memo. Hopefully it comes soon.

 

[Firemind]

So I just lost my only Pokemon with Cut. Koga is a beast. I checked and there are only sixteen species that can learn Cut! This is going to be annoying... I don't really want to break the nuzlocke rules for this.

 

[Tingle]

Ah I must have missed that memo. Hopefully it comes soon.

It won't come soon likely because its to send Pokemon to Sun/Moon, which aren't out until the holidays.

 

[Owari]

No-one knows - Pokemon Bank isn't available yet for R/B/Y. It's unlikely that Missingno will be able to be sent to it though.

It would be straight up amazing if they programmed ol 000 into Pokemon Sun & Moon, pixels and all.

Too bad TPC/GameFreak has never done anything even remotely that cool, so it's not gonna happen.

 

[Anilusion]

I hope the ability to transfer gen 1 pokemon to Sun/Moon means they are finally getting rid of IVs.

 

[Owari]

I hope the ability to transfer gen 1 pokemon to Sun/Moon means they are finally getting rid of IVs.

Like I said, TPC/GameFreak don't do anything cool, so something that rad will definitely not happen. We'll get random IVs and deal.

 

[unknownstranger]

I don't really get the appeal of Nuzlocke runs. Just seems like it would make me ragequit because of something stupid. If I was doing one in my playthrough of Yellow I would have lost my Pikachu in Viridian Forest because of a gen 1 miss.

 

[Anilusion]

Like I said, TPC/GameFreak don't do anything cool, so something that rad will definitely not happen. We'll get random IVs and deal.

But if we're going to be given random IVs there is no reason to not being able to transfer to XY/ORAS, right?

 

[Owari]

But if we're going to be given random IVs there is no reason to not being able to transfer to XY/ORAS, right?

In an ideal world, yes. But its GameFreak. They don't need a reason other than "lol wut"

 

[JoeM86]

But if we're going to be given random IVs there is no reason to not being able to transfer to XY/ORAS, right?

I doubt it's because they're getting rid of IVs.

They can easily calculate things for Gen 1-2 into 34567

IVs = G1IV * 2 + (random 0 or 1)
EVs = √EVs / 3 (So the highest would be 85 and they'd add up to the max of 510 if all stats were maxed)


They also said DIRECTLY into Sun/Moon.

There is no evidence to suggest IVs are being removed.

In an ideal world, yes. But its GameFreak. They don't need a reason other than "lol wut"

It's most certainly not an ideal world if they remove IVs. It'd kill a massive part of Pokémon to capitulate to the vocal minority. The system just needs a bit of a rework so there's no such thing as a perfect Pokémon. Without IVs, the genetics of Pokémon, every wild version of the species would be the same. It'd be pointless. They shouldn't remove that just because hackers ruin it for everyone else. It'd kill trading, it'd kill breeding. It'd kill Pokémon.

 

[Crayolan]

It's most certainly not an ideal world if they remove IVs. It'd kill a massive part of Pokémon to capitulate to the vocal minority. The system just needs a bit of a rework so there's no such thing as a perfect Pokémon. Without IVs, the genetics of Pokémon, every wild version of the species would be the same. It'd be pointless. They shouldn't remove that just because hackers ruin it for everyone else. It'd kill trading, it'd kill breeding. It'd kill Pokémon.

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. lol

 

[JoeM86]

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. lol

I don't. With all Pokémon being the same, there's little reason to capture more Pokémon. Little reason to trade other than version exclusives.

People really underestimate the value of IVs. We weren't meant to have perfect IVs. There was a 1 in 1,073,741,824 chance of that in Gen 3 (and still normally), with breeding only allowing you to control like one IV which fits somewhat with the genetics metaphor they are going with. Then, people started cheating to get perfect Pokémon and since then, in an effort to deter people, they've made it easier and easier down to now being able to inherit 5 IVs from the parents, Pokémon in No Eggs Group having 3 guaranteed IVs, 2 guaranteed in Friend Safari, ability to get ones easier with DexNav etc.

I actually don't like that they made it easier as it has kind of killed the entire concept.

IVs need a rework, no doubt about it, but removal is not an option. With how they lock various things with blue pentagon now to signify for Gen VI, it is easy for them to rework the calculations when catching/hatching Pokémon in Gen VII, and have them have its own symbol.

 

[Wiseblade]

IV talk

How would you change IVs to remove the "perfect Pokémon" issue? Changing into a specialisation system would be redundant when EVs exist. I'm definitely in favour of leaving IOVs as is compared to removing them outright, but I don't see a viable third choice here.

 

[Crayolan]

I don't. With all Pokémon being the same, there's little reason to capture more Pokémon. Little reason to trade other than version exclusives.

People really underestimate the value of IVs. We weren't meant to have perfect IVs. There was a 1 in 1,073,741,824 chance of that in Gen 3 (and still normally), with breeding only allowing you to control like one IV which fits somewhat with the genetics metaphor they are going with. Then, people started cheating to get perfect Pokémon and since then, in an effort to deter people, they've made it easier and easier down to now being able to inherit 5 IVs from the parents, Pokémon in No Eggs Group having 3 guaranteed IVs, 2 guaranteed in Friend Safari, ability to get ones easier with DexNav etc.

I actually don't like that they made it easier as it has kind of killed the entire concept.

IVs need a rework, no doubt about it, but removal is not an option.

IVs are not the only thing which differentiate pokemon--there's also natures and EVs.

I'm not sure I agree with the "completely remove IVs" sentiment but you're being silly here.

 

[JoeM86]

IVs are not the only thing which differentiate pokemon--there's also natures and EVs.

I'm not sure I agree with the "completely remove IVs" sentiment but you're being silly here.

EVs are training. Natures are close, but by no means enough.

I don't think you realise the importance of there being fundamental differences between two different wild Pokémon of the same species.

How would you change IVs to remove the "perfect Pokémon" issue? Changing into a specialisation system would be redundant when EVs exist. I'm definitely in favour of leaving IOVs as is compared to removing them outright, but I don't see a viable third choice here.

Not so much a specialisation but just an upper limit it can never bypass. So you can have like 3 max IVs max. The rest would be poor, or you could have all the IVs as "good". It's tricky to work with, especially with the context of what IVs signify, but it's much better than removing.

They need to sort out their hack checks anyway.

 

[Wiseblade]

IVs are not the only thing which differentiate pokemon--there's also natures and EVs.

I'm not sure I agree with the "completely remove IVs" sentiment but you're being silly here.

Getting the nature you want for a Pokémon is a snap and EVs by their very nature are easy to control. Without IVs, there would be nothing stats-wise to differentiate between two Jolly Lucario EV trained in Attack and Speed. That probably doesn't sound like a big deal to many, but it does undermine to uniqueness of an individual Pokemon somewhat, something Game Freak have visibly placed a lot of value in since Gen III.

IVs were clearly designed as a random element to ensure that two Pokémon would still have slight differences, even if raised the same way. IVs were built to provide a degree of variation that the flat +/-10% modifier of Natures can't come close to replicating.

Controlling IVs is easier than it's ever been, which does make it easy to question why they exist in a competitive context. But for single player and smaller/more casual communities, they fulfill their original purpose as well as they ever have.

Not so much a specialisation but just an upper limit it can never bypass. So you can have like 3 max IVs max. The rest would be poor, or you could have all the IVs as "good". It's tricky to work with, especially with the context of what IVs signify, but it's much better than removing.

They need to sort out their hack checks anyway.

That doesn't really make them any different from EVs at that point. Having another pool of point that you allocate to stats of you choice undermined the most distinctive part of IVs: that you CAN have one Pokémon simply be better than another of the same species and nature in every way.

 

[Charlie0108]

I've just bought a New 3DS, if I transfer my system over will I retain my save data for Yellow?

 

[Wiseblade]

I've just bought a New 3DS, if I transfer my system over will I retain my save data for Yellow?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes, if you do it right. While I had no trouble, some people have posted about how they chose the wrong options during the transfer and lost saves in the process. There are probably a whole host of guides online by this point, so just follow one of those and you should be fine.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

EVs are training. Natures are close, but by no means enough.

I don't think you realise the importance of there being fundamental differences between two different wild Pokémon of the same species.



Not so much a specialisation but just an upper limit it can never bypass. So you can have like 3 max IVs max. The rest would be poor, or you could have all the IVs as "good". It's tricky to work with, especially with the context of what IVs signify, but it's much better than removing.

They need to sort out their hack checks anyway.

And then people will hack their 31/x/x/31/x/31 Pokemon given the chance, it really wouldn't change a thing.

And while they could probably make hacking a whole lot harder, by say, keeping a secondary database of all Pokemon in the save file to verify against that would still all be moot because 3ds save files are fully accessible anyway and there are enough people out there willing to pour in the time to figure that stuff out.

Not to mention the 3ds emulator that is making good progress and that might offer more advanced debugging capabilities in the future.

 

[bomblord1]

Are we really arguing that the removal of IV's would destroy Pokemon in a thread about a well received re-release of GEN I?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Are we really arguing that the removal of IV's would destroy Pokemon in a thread about a well received re-release of GEN I?

Gen I had IVs

 

[Yrael]

Are we really arguing that the removal of IV's would destroy Pokemon in a thread about a well received re-release of GEN I?

Eh? Pokemon in Gen I still have IVs (although they are only stored for Attack, Defence, Special and Speed).

 

[Theorymon]

Note that if Pokemon Bank actually ends up converting DVs to IVs, then getting perfect Pokemon from RBY should be trivial due to the 8F glitch. I don't think Gamefreak has ever had Pokebank check for "legal spreads" either, maybe because its too complicated? Either way, I imagine that as long as IVs aren't randomized, getting good mons from these classic games should be possible without any outside devices!

Nature might be a different story though, who knows how Sun and Moon are gonna handle those. Personally I'd prefer the ability to choose nature, but just in case they end up being randomized, I've been catching multiples of dangerous sounding Pokemon such as Slowpoke (Fissure Slowbro would be serious stuff in Battle Spot Singles), stocking up Bulbasaurs from a Blue I keep resetting (Reflect Mega Venusaur sounds pretty neat), and obviously Machop

On the whole "removing IVs will destroy Pokemon" stuff: seriously, how many people outside of small online communities really care? Never once as a kid did I ever hear people get super excited about their Charmander having a higher SpA stat than the other kids, they just wanted to battle, fuck the numbers. I really, REALLY doubt putting everyone on an even playing field is gonna "destroy the franchise". Casual players in my experience care much more about the Pokemon themselves than their numbers, so I don't see much harm from removing IVs or making them far more reasonable, and a whole lot of benefit.

IMO, the only way to nearly kill the whole hacking perfect Pokemon game is to remove the incentive. That means either removing IVs, letting people edit IVs ingame or for online use only, or auto set all Pokemon IVs to 31 when battling online (sorta like how some of gamefreak's recent tournaments have auto level uped Pokemon to 50 in addition to leveling down). Any other way is gonna be convoluted and just make things worse.

 

[bomblord1]

Eh? Pokemon in Gen I still have IVs (although they are only stored for Attack, Defence, Special and Speed).

Yup

 

[Rewind]

I think removing iv's would be pretty great. As someone who starteded playing online in x and y only because they made it so easy (compared to previous games) to breed Pokemon I find iv's to be a huge time sink. I have over 250 hours in x and over half of that is running back and forth in front of the day care hatching eggs and checking iv's. Online battling is immensely fun and iv's put a huge barrier on it for new players.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Not so much a specialisation but just an upper limit it can never bypass. So you can have like 3 max IVs max. The rest would be poor, or you could have all the IVs as "good". It's tricky to work with, especially with the context of what IVs signify, but it's much better than removing.

Wouldn't this just accelerate power creep even further? People would just min/max sweepers to all be glass cannons. Seems like it would also completely kill the concept of mixed sweepers.

 

[JoeM86]

Are we really arguing that the removal of IV's would destroy Pokemon in a thread about a well received re-release of GEN I?

I remember one of the things they used to promote the original games here in the UK had them showing how no two Pokémon would be alike. IVs have been a thing since the get go.

Wouldn't this just accelerate power creep even further? People would just min/max sweepers to all be glass cannons. Seems like it would also completely kill the concept of mixed sweepers.

I'm not saying that idea is perfect

 

[balladofwindfishes]

My thought would be to get rid of IVs and just have every Pokemon, either hatched or caught, start with a randomly generated set of half of their EVs.

These could be removed via Super Training, and so for most people who don't care about EVs, the change is mostly unnoticeable, as Pokemon would all have seemingly random stats, and there would be noticeable variation between two Pokemon caught at the same level, especially with natures in there as well to influence.

IVs would continue to be stored and generated, but now they just influence what EVs the Pokemon is good at earning. From 0-31 it would influence how many EVs the Pokemon earned, at 0, half the usual, at 15, normal, and at 31, double, with various degrees in between.

 

[Theorymon]

On a lighter note, the official Pokemon website posted some RBY strategies. http://www.pokemon.com/us/strategy/classic-link-battle-flashbacks/

Honestly, I'm really impressed at this article. I mean sure it misses out on some stuff such as how Normal-types are immune to Body Slam paralysis, but otherwise, this is pretty high quality stuff: almost as good as the stuff you'd find on Smogon! I hope the official Pokemon website continues these strategy articles for Sun and Moon!

(Also, I'm tempted to make a thread about IVs, I swear half the time a Pokemon topic gets derailed, its because of them lol)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Seeing Gen I jank be put into an official article written by the Pokemon Company is surreal.

Most of those move sets seem ripped right from Smogon as well.

 

[WPS]

Honestly, I'm really impressed at this article. I mean sure it misses out on some stuff such as how Normal-types are immune to Body Slam paralysis, but otherwise, this is pretty high quality stuff: almost as good as the stuff you'd find on Smogon! I hope the official Pokemon website continues these strategy articles for Sun and Moon!

That is pretty neat.

I wonder if the lack of mention for body slam not paralyzing normals is because they don't know about it? Unlike hyper beam's behaviour, its not very well documented and IIRC even smogon only discovered it last year.

They should also bring back the hyper beam glitch for gen 7. The move and its clones really aren't that great otherwise and I don't think it would break anything.

Edit: Wait, these articles mean that we have official names for the various stat parameters.
IVs -> Indivdual strengths
Base Stat -> Natural Stat
EV -> Base Stat

... that's not entirely helpful.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Blast Burn Mega Charizard Y hmmmmm yup.

 

[superNESjoe]

I heard Snorlax is pretty boss, just caught one. Should he join my team? Why? What are his best moves?

 

[Sesuadra]

took way longer than it should have:

 

[JoeM86]

My thought would be to get rid of IVs and just have every Pokemon, either hatched or caught, start with a randomly generated set of half of their EVs.

These could be removed via Super Training, and so for most people who don't care about EVs, the change is mostly unnoticeable, as Pokemon would all have seemingly random stats, and there would be noticeable variation between two Pokemon caught at the same level, especially with natures in there as well to influence.

IVs would continue to be stored and generated, but now they just influence what EVs the Pokemon is good at earning. From 0-31 it would influence how many EVs the Pokemon earned, at 0, half the usual, at 15, normal, and at 31, double, with various degrees in between.

Urgh, god no.

That completely ruins the entire concept of both EVs and IVs.


IVs are the genetics of Pokémon. Some Pokémon are naturally better at some things than others of the same species. Just like in real life.

If you had a person who is more genetically positioned for strong leg muscles, and someone who isn't, and they both had the same amount of training, then the one with stronger genetics would still be faster in a long distance run.

As such, having it so it randomly gives EVs kind of ruins the concept of Pokémon having genetic traits as well as training.

 

[Oswen]

I'm very curious about how RBY pokémon will be reworked in Sun and Moon, I don't know about IVs in particular but I do remember an interview after XY release about wanting to go back to a more basic and simple formula in general. Maybe somekind of changes may happen afterall?

As for IVs, that's an old debate. I agree with the fact that *something* should change since as of now it only makes a pokémon better or worse and not different, Speed IV being the biggest culprit.
Maybe rework how stats work? Or do something like Joe said about stat limitations (would need some work)?

Personally I'd like to go toward the aesthetic route. Make IVs affect how a pokémon look in a subtle way like different shades of colours (Stadium had something like that), want a Crimson red charizard? Either get lucky or find someone who can breed it.
It would make pokémon of the same species look slighty different and create a nice enviroment for trading and breeding, especially if the most deviant forms would be hard to attain.
Shiny forms would remain as the most different and uncontrollable colour form even if, in this case, some of those would probably need to change.
Yes I'm looking at you, shiny Garchomp.

 

[metalmonstar]

I am getting ready to start Rock Tunnel. I had a little bit of fun with the long range glitch in Cerulean city.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Urgh, god no.

That completely ruins the entire concept of both EVs and IVs.


IVs are the genetics of Pokémon. Some Pokémon are naturally better at some things than others of the same species. Just like in real life.

If you had a person who is more genetically positioned for strong leg muscles, and someone who isn't, and they both had the same amount of training, then the one with stronger genetics would still be faster in a long distance run.

As such, having it so it randomly gives EVs kind of ruins the concept of Pokémon having genetic traits as well as training.

But there is no actual variety in stats once you reach of a high level of play. "Genetics" are nothing but a mild inconvenience towards making your pure bred perfect IVs, perfect nature killing machines.

With random EV spread, you'd get the same basic idea for the people who don't know any better, without the tedious breeding minigame. At that point, natures would be the only thing needed to be acquired, and those are easy to get with Synchronize and Ever Stones.

High level players don't care about simulated genetics beyond it being annoying to work around. And low level players wouldn't notice the difference because the stats would still be random and you'd still have some Pokemon better than others unless you dug deeper and reset their stats.

If natures were the only RNG you had to worry about, you'd probably see a lot more people get into competitive Pokemon. Reducing IVs usefulness on stats would also tone some Pokemon down a bit, as stats would be lower across the board.

 

[Makonero]

Beat the game yesterday, using only gift pokemon (including casino reward pokemon and one in game trade).

Here was my final line-up:

Venusaur - Buddy - Starter in Pallet
Jolteon - Eve - Gift Eevee in Celadon
Lapras - Lady - Gift Lapras in Silph
Hitmonlee - Happy - Gift Hitmonlee from Fighting Dojo
Nidoqueen - Nina - Casino Reward Nidorina
Mr. Mime - MARCEL - Casino Reward Abra traded for Mr. Mime

Outside of Lapras, none of these Pokemon have ever been on one of my main teams. Super fun! Nina's movelist (with TMs) is so beastly. Marcel destroyed pretty much everything and leveling him up was way too easy. I had a difficult time occasionally with psychics, but Lady's bulk and Body Slams took care of most of them when Marcel's Take Down couldn't do it.

I think the highlight was making it all the way to Lavender town with literally nothing but my Venusaur and Gyarados. After the game opened up it was still fun, but the challenge was gone as soon as I had all six Pokemon.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Settng up on Koga's overlevelled Venonat with Farfetch'd and then OHKO'ing his whole team felt goood.

Get destroyed by the GOAT Pokemon.

 

[Shuggananas]

There are people defending IVs ? lol
It's so lovely spending dozens of hours breeding just to have a decent pokémon

 

[Forkball]

There are people defending IVs ? lol
It's so lovely spending dozens of hours breeding just to have a decent pokémon

We should be able to genetically engineer Pokemon in SuMo. Oh you have a 30 in speed? Get in the tube.