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[Invisible_Insane]

ehhh, I could still see it. Nobody and I certainly hope the future GOP nominee for president believes Russia to actually be an enemy. A shady country, sure, but enemy? Its not like there are spies in the country anymore infiltrating government offices...

If you think the conduct of espionage is a useful proxy for geopolitical enmity then you may want to begin budgeting for your fallout shelter.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Which would sound quite weak from the guy whose law just got shit canned...

I agree with PD here, but I don't think this will be ruled unconstitutional.

 

[AlteredBeast]

If you think the conduct of espionage is a useful proxy for geopolitical enmity then you may want to begin budgeting for your fallout shelter.

I don't. Bad joke, I guess.

I agree with PD here, but I don't think this will be ruled unconstitutional.

I dont think it will be ruled unconstitutional, but don't agree with the enforcement of buying insurance from a private insurer. Where is the public option?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

For some reason I have a feeling this ruling will be on the same level as Dred Scott as far as arguments go.

Very flimsy and so vague it can apply to anything (like taxes) and will ultimately be laughed at years later.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I don't. Bad joke, I guess.

I dont think it will be ruled unconstitutional, but don't agree with the enforcement of buying insurance from a private insurer. Where is the public option?

Ah. I thought you were referring to those Russian spies that were discovered in the country a couple of years back, and I was just saying that anyone who can afford to has spies in as many places as they think necessary.

Ask Max Baucus where the public option is. Seriously, fuck the Senate.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Ah. I thought you were referring to those Russian spies that were discovered in the country a couple of years back, and I was just saying that anyone who can afford to has spies in as many places as they think necessary.

Ask Max Baucus where the public option is. Seriously, fuck the Senate.

That is actually what I dislike about this garbage as it is written. I feel like, should it be ruled constitutional, Dems (and by extension, more obviously the GOP) won't push for a public option again for far longer. Should the system become broken again (or should I say, more broken) they will be in a much bigger hurry to actually fix it for good with a PO/true UHC sooner.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hah.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/medvedev-slams-romney-anti-russia-comments-165913419.html

WOW! In another dimension the press would actually present Romney with these quotes and hammer him on his foreign policy.

 

[Clevinger]

Where is the public option?

"What public option?"

 

[Fatalah]

I keep freaking out every time I visit the Drugereport (more than usual).

The main headline about ObamaCare, I keep thinking it reads "overturned". Ahhh!

 

[PhoenixDark]

That is actually what I dislike about this garbage as it is written. I feel like, should it be ruled constitutional, Dems (and by extension, more obviously the GOP) won't push for a public option again for far longer. Should the system become broken again (or should I say, more broken) they will be in a much bigger hurry to actually fix it for good with a PO/true UHC sooner.

Why? Anyone who paid attention to the health care debate can tell a PO isn't coming anytime soon. The only slim chance would be if a republican president proposed it and we know that's not gonna happen.

The interests on both sides of the aisle are far too invested with the health industry/pharma. If anything Obamacare is the best option because it encourages state governments to experiment.

 

[AlteredBeast]

The real problem is that the pharma-influenced and lobbied congress has convinced the general public that a PO is a bad idea, evil, and will be substandard to the care offered now in hospitals around the country.

With that ace in their pocket, they can kick the can down the road. Look how many people opposed Obamacare, when 9 times out of 10, people will actually benefit from it.

 

[mckmas8808]

That is actually what I dislike about this garbage as it is written. I feel like, should it be ruled constitutional, Dems (and by extension, more obviously the GOP) won't push for a public option again for far longer. Should the system become broken again (or should I say, more broken) they will be in a much bigger hurry to actually fix it for good with a PO/true UHC sooner.

NO they wouldn't! It's easier to build on something that has foundation, than to start something from scratch.

We as a nation have tried to fix our general healthcare insurance problem for 50 years and Obamacare is the first then that actually looks to be something that we can build off on.

And it's alot weaker than what Nixon came up with decades ago. And he was a republican!

 

[AlteredBeast]

NO they wouldn't! It's easier to build on something that has foundation, than to start something from scratch.

We as a nation have tried to fix our general healthcare insurance problem for 50 years and Obamacare is the first then that actually looks to be something that we can build off on.

And it's alot weaker than what Nixon came up with decades ago. And he was a republican!

Let's just say that I am pessimistic about our leaders actually taking initiative to fix healthcare on such a grand scale if given the opportunity.

 

[Pre]

There's a difference between how you pay for services. Sure, somewhere down the line I will probably need some kind of healthcare service, but perhaps I can pay for it out of pocket. The mandate requires me to engage in commerce with an insurance company. You can not create commerce so you can then regulate it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ah. I thought you were referring to those Russian spies that were discovered in the country a couple of years back, and I was just saying that anyone who can afford to has spies in as many places as they think necessary.

Ask Max Baucus where the public option is. Seriously, fuck the Senate.

Obama killed the PO before a final bill was close to completion, let's not rewrite history

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?_r=1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

 

[mckmas8808]

There's a difference between how you pay for services. Sure, somewhere down the line I will probably need some kind of healthcare service, but perhaps I can pay for it out of pocket. The mandate requires me to engage in commerce with an insurance company. You can not create commerce so you can then regulate it.

So what do you say to the $42 Billion per year that's unpaid due to people not having healthcare insurance?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

There's a difference between how you pay for services. Sure, somewhere down the line I will probably need some kind of healthcare service, but perhaps I can pay for it out of pocket. The mandate requires me to engage in commerce with an insurance company. You can not create commerce so you can then regulate it.

And if whatever you need is too expensive, then you can simply declare bankruptcy and allow the ramifications of that to be passed on to your creditors and whomever else. Or you can just die.

God bless America.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The real problem is that the pharma-influenced and lobbied congress has convinced the general public that a PO is a bad idea, evil, and will be substandard to the care offered now in hospitals around the country.

With that ace in their pocket, they can kick the can down the road. Look how many people opposed Obamacare, when 9 times out of 10, people will actually benefit from it.

The public option had broad public support, as did opening Medicare. Congress - and Obama - went against public opinion on that one.

 

[The Librarian]

Obama killed the PO before a final bill was close to completion, let's not rewrite history

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?_r=1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

I agree.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree.

WOW PD! You've been telling us a lie for years. I actually started to believe you too when it came to this Obama nuked the PO.

 

[RustyNails]

I keep freaking out every time I visit the Drugereport (more than usual).

I think thats a problem

 

[AlteredBeast]

The public option had broad public support, as did opening Medicare. Congress - and Obama - went against public opinion on that one.

I agree.

WOW PD! You've been telling us a lie for years. I actually started to believe you too when it came to this Obama nuked the PO.

F congress. Really.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

WOW PD! You've been telling us a lie for years. I actually started to believe you too when it came to this Obama nuked the PO.

Why anybody listens to him on anything Obama related is beyond me.

 

[markatisu]

Why anybody listen to him on anything Obama related is beyond me.

Some people don't get the act yet

 

[PhoenixDark]

I agree.

Sargent offers no evidence to suggest otherwise. Tom Daschle is also on record saying it was scrapped from the beginning, although his staff issued a ridiculous statement "clarifying" his obvious comments, that he made on record and in his own book detailing the details of the legislative process.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2010/10/05/171689/daschle-interview/

Kilpatrick specifically confirmed the deal, I don't see the wiggle room Sargent creates out of thin air.

“That’s a lobbyist for the hospital industry and he’s talking about the hospital industry’s specific deal with the White House and the Senate Finance Committee and, yeah, I think the hospital industry’s got a deal here. There really were only two deals, meaning quid pro quo handshake deals on both sides, one with the hospitals and the other with the drug industry. And I think what you’re interested in is that in the background of these deals was the presumption, shared on behalf of the lobbyists on the one side and the White House on the other, that the public option was not going to be in the final product.”

 

[The Librarian]

Sargent offers no evidence to suggest otherwise. Tom Daschle is also on record saying it was scrapped from the beginning, although his staff issued a ridiculous statement "clarifying" his obvious comments, that he made on record and in his own book detailing the details of the legislative process.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2010/10/05/171689/daschle-interview/

Kilpatrick specifically confirmed the deal, I don't see the wiggle room Sargent creates out of thin air.

Shows how much you read the article. It was written by Bernstein.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Shows how much you read the article. It was written by Bernstein.

Brilliant retort; I often mistake assuming everything on the Plum Line as from Sargent. Regardless, the article in no way disproves the idea that the PO was dropped in back door negotiations. If this was just one journalist perhaps he'd have a point. Daschle saying the same thing closes the deal.

It was quite clear what was going on at the time. This wasn't just Baucus acting like an idiot, he was receiving cover from Obama and Reid from the beginning.

 

[XMonkey]

The House passed a version of the bill with a public option, correct? The Senate would have none of that rational shit.

 

[Gruco]

Nelson and Lieberman killed the public option. There is no other reasonable interpretation of events.

Congress is not bound by backroom negotiations. Obama never threatened to veto a public option. It passed the house and had the support or 58 senators. This is not a hard line to draw.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Nelson and Lieberman killed the public option. There is no other reasonable interpretation of events.

Congress is not bound by backroom negotiations. Obama never threatened to veto a public option. It passed the house and had the support or 58 senators. This is not a hard line to draw.

I believe Lieberman withdrew support like hours after agreeing to it. Overnight change from what I can remember.

 

[Chichikov]

Obama never threatened to veto a public option. It passed the house and had the support or 58 senators. This is not a hard line to draw.

Obama threatened to veto a bill without the public option, though he obviously didn't follow through.

 

[Jackson50]

But socialism, etc.

I really think that people who think of themselves as deficit hawks, bullshit about liberty aside, should endorse UHC merely on the grounds of cost.

Definitely. Aside from fealty to an oppressive ideology, there are few, if any, reasons to oppose UHC. There's a reason virtually every industrialized state has implemented it.

ehhh, I could still see it. Nobody and I certainly hope the future GOP nominee for president believes Russia to actually be an enemy. A shady country, sure, but enemy? Its not like there are spies in the country anymore infiltrating government offices...

The problem stems from a myopic, defective conception of international relations. Instead of a state having the binary distinction as either enemy or non-enemy, a more acute concept is a continuum of potential challengers. On one end are states with whom we share a consensus on many issues. And on the other end are states with whom our interests diverge. Presently, Russia's interests diverge from ours on myriad issues. Whether it's, for example, the Balkans, Caucasus, or Central Asia, there are many areas of divergence. Now, there are opportunities to reduce conflict. And we can even cooperate on issues of mutual concern. For example, the New START, Nunn-Lugar, and a civilian nuclear cooperation agreement. Essentially, there's a delicate balance between identifying competitors and enemies. Moreover, as I noted yesterday, Romney's glib pronouncement fell short. Russia is the geopolitical foe, yet you've largely ignored them? Come on, Mitt.

 

[Amir0x]

God the Supreme Court really looks like it's primed to kill the Individual Mandate. Fuck the Republican Justices

 

[XMonkey]

I believe Lieberman withdrew support like hours after agreeing to it. Overnight change from what I can remember.

Ya, he was pretty instrumental in killing the PO. Can't wait for that shithead to get out of the Senate this year.

 

[Kosmo]

God the Supreme Court really looks like it's primed to kill the Individual Mandate. Fuck the Republican Justices

I don't think Sotomayor was impressed with the government's inability to provide an argument on limiting Congress' power if this is upheld.

 

[Amir0x]

It's going to be 5-4, don't even get that twisted Kosmo.

This is why Obama essentially has to be re-elected, and why I am pretty much forced to vote for him, because if a Republican came up and we lost another sane Justice, the Republicans would tilt the courts in the nutjob direction for a generation, a near incalculably devastating prospect for the future of this country. They are forcing hands here if we are to maintain even a hint of balance.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It's going to be 5-4, don't even get that twisted Kosmo.

This is why Obama essentially has to be re-elected, and why I am pretty much forced to vote for him, because if a Republican came up and we lost another sane Justice, the Republicans would tilt the courts in the nutjob direction for a generation, a near incalculably devastating prospect for the future of this country. They are forcing hands here if we are to maintain even a hint of balance.

That would be the only good that may come out of it. Democrats energized to make sure the next SC pick is not conservative.

 

[sc0la]

Kosmo found the community thread ?!!
dive! dive!
aoooga aooooga
*drudge_siren.gif*

 

[Pre]

It's going to be 5-4, don't even get that twisted Kosmo.

This is why Obama essentially has to be re-elected, and why I am pretty much forced to vote for him, because if a Republican came up and we lost another sane Justice, the Republicans would tilt the courts in the nutjob direction for a generation, a near incalculably devastating prospect for the future of this country. They are forcing hands here if we are to maintain even a hint of balance.

:lol

The prospect of a patently unconstitutional bill being overturned scares you that badly?

The Constitution is viewed by liberals as a roadblock preventing them from implementing sweeping progressive reform. Thus, they'll cobble together whatever half-assed justification they can to defend literally any overreach by the federal government. Following the logic of Obama's defense team, the federal government has the authority to tell me how many times I can shit in a day because the use of toilet paper affects interstate commerce.

This case is about whether or not there are any limits on what the federal government can do. Are we going to live in a society where moral busybodies control every facet of your life, or are we going to maintain some semblance of personal autonomy?

If the healthcare bill is upheld, then the Constitution is worthless. America's grand experiment - federalism - is over.

 

[leroidys]

:lol

The prospect of a patently unconstitutional bill being overturned scares you that badly?

The Constitution is viewed by liberals as a roadblock preventing them from implementing sweeping progressive reform. Thus, they'll cobble together whatever half-assed justification they can to defend literally any overreach by the federal government. Following the logic of Obama's defense team, the federal government has the authority to tell me how many times I can shit in a day because the use of toilet paper affects interstate commerce.

This case is about whether or not there are any limits on what the federal government can do. Are we going to live in a society where moral busybodies control every facet of your life, or are we going to maintain some semblance of personal autonomy?

If the healthcare bill is upheld, then the Constitution is worthless. America's grand experiment - federalism - is over.

10/10

 

[Averon]

Are there going to be arguments tomorrow? I want to see how hard Roberts and Kennedy goes after Clement. If their questioning shows a similar level of skeptisim towards the plaintiffs, I think the decision will be a toss up.

 

[Kosmo]

It's going to be 5-4, don't even get that twisted Kosmo.

This is why Obama essentially has to be re-elected, and why I am pretty much forced to vote for him, because if a Republican came up and we lost another sane Justice, the Republicans would tilt the courts in the nutjob direction for a generation, a near incalculably devastating prospect for the future of this country. They are forcing hands here if we are to maintain even a hint of balance.

You really think Ginsberg is "sane" at this point? She and Breyer were pretty much a joke today with their analogies.

Are there going to be arguments tomorrow? I want to see how hard Roberts and Kennedy goes after Clement. If their questioning shows a similar level of skeptisim towards the plaintiffs, I think the decision will be a toss up.

Yes, the arguments tomorrow focus around the unfunded mandate of expanding Medicaid by 50%.

 

[Captain Pants]

Idaho took a babystep back from the brink of insanity.

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — Idaho's Republican-controlled Legislature is backing away from a bill requiring women seeking an abortion to get an ultrasound first, capping weeks of Capitol demonstrations, a live Senate ultrasound exhibition on pregnant women and threats against at least one lawmaker.

The legislation passed the Senate, but stalled in the state House after Rep. Tom Loertscher announced Tuesday he wouldn't schedule a committee hearing.

This restored a little bit of faith in these jerks.

 

[ToxicAdam]

EPA putting restrictions on Coal Power Plants over CO2 emissions.

The Obama administration’s proposed rule to control greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants — the first ever — could go far toward closing out the era of old-fashioned coal-burning power generation.


The draft rule, unveiled on Tuesday by Lisa P. Jackson, the Environmental Protection Agency administrator, would limit carbon dioxide emissions from new power plants to 1,000 pounds per megawatt-hour.

Recently built power plants fired by natural gas already easily meet the new standards, so the rule presents little obstacle for new gas plants. But coal-fired plants face a far greater challenge, since no easily accessible technology can bring their emissions under the limit. Coal-fired plants are a major source of emissions associated with global warming. The new rules do not apply to existing plants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/s...ouse-emission-limits-on-new-power-plants.html


This appears to kind of meet the industry halfway. New plants will probably never be built (because they can't meet the requirements), but old plants will still be allowed to continue on.

 

[Chichikov]

The prospect of a patently unconstitutional bill being overturned scares you that badly?

I'm pretty sure people who supports it thinks it's constitutional.
What concerns people is the ability to pass progressive legislation with Roberts court.

The Constitution is viewed by liberals as a roadblock preventing them from implementing sweeping progressive reform. Thus, they'll cobble together whatever half-assed justification they can to defend literally any overreach by the federal government. Following the logic of Obama's defense team, the federal government has the authority to tell me how many times I can shit in a day because the use of toilet paper affects interstate commerce.

Seriously, stop shadowboxing.

This case is about whether or not there are any limits on what the federal government can do. Are we going to live in a society where moral busybodies control every facet of your life, or are we going to maintain some semblance of personal autonomy?

If the healthcare bill is upheld, then the Constitution is worthless. America's grand experiment - federalism - is over.

End of federalism?
Please.

I mean sure, it is possible that the Supreme Court will give some sweeping decision that redefine the way the government works, it's possible on every case presented before the court.
But realistically, they will almost certainly write a very scoped down decision, and I don't think anyone predicts a sweeping general decision in favor of the mandate.

 

[RDreamer]

Apparently, according to Scott Walker, the shitty job performance of Wisconsin is because of.... health care reform!

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Apparently, according to Scott Walker, the shitty job performance of Wisconsin is because of.... health care reform!

In case you are wondering where these people who support Walker are...they are here with me in the Wisconsin countryside. This people really are mentally ill.

 

[RDreamer]

In case you are wondering where these people who support Walker are...they are here with me in the Wisconsin countryside. This people really are mentally ill.

I swear my dad is the biggest Walker supporter in the state. I know where they are and how they feel. It's still surprising, though. If you're anywhere near Fond Du Lac and read their newspaper political editorial things you've probably read my some stuff my dad's written. My dad can't write, but they put it in because whatever he says is controversial. I think they censor some swear words though...

I kind of feel like in the Wisconsin countryside you're either staunchly republican or you work for a union and you're a pretty conservative democrat.

Also, if I know my dad correctly he'll likely be voting for Santorum. I don't think I'm going to ask him, though. I'd rather not know that for sure...

 

[teiresias]

This case is about whether or not there are any limits on what the federal government can do. Are we going to live in a society where moral busybodies control every facet of your life, or are we going to maintain some semblance of personal autonomy?

You'll excuse me if I laugh wholeheartedly at the idea that the party that supports restricting gay marriage and restricting a woman's access to contraception gives a damn about keeping "moral busybodies" out of people's lives.

 

[empty vessel]

End of federalism?

With any luck. Federalism is a massive failure.