PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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I don't see a problem with booing or heckling the president.
He's a public servant, not a king, he works for us, not the other way around.
Fuck this "respect for the office" bullshit.

The only problem I have with the last incident is that the person was at least nominally a journalist, and that's just unprofessional.
You ask questions to get answers, not to score points with the crowd.

Either way, it's a silly and unimportant story.
 
my cousin is officially a member of the national assembly as a member of the socialist party (of course)! pretty cool- i was with him in march and we had a nice little chat about his chances and his view on the euro debt crisis. might be the only election i'm a part of this year where the candidate actually wins since the campaign i was running here in texas ended in may and my candidate lost by...117 votes. and obama, well...
 
fallagin said:
Man, the press have some sort of Stockholm syndrome when it comes to the GOP. They constantly shit on the press and the press just gobbles everything they say right up.
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Well people actually like to watch news sources that they don't trust. They feel it gives them the other side of an argument or at least entertaining lies to listen to, why do you think so many liberals love watching Fox News?

That's why news networks actually benefit from having politicians question their credibility. They won't sacrifice their own ratings by defending their journalists.

Incognito said:
my cousin is officially a member of the national assembly as a member of the socialist party (of course)! pretty cool- i was with him in march and we had a nice little chat about his chances and his view on the euro debt crisis. might be the only election i'm a part of this year where the candidate actually wins since the campaign i was running here in texas ended in may and my candidate lost by...117 votes. and obama, well...
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Texas is still a decade or two away from turning purple.
 
I don't think it would hurt Obama though. Too many Democrats would be pissed off and would go out to vote for him again if health care reform is set back and Republicans have provided no decent alternative plan a few years after fighting against the initial bill.

The last thing Mitt Romney wants to do is promise a concrete plan to overhaul the health care system. It'll be like the immigration thing a couple days ago, Romney will have to pull off a triple flip-flop.
 
Al-ibn Kermit said:
I don't think it would hurt Obama though. Too many Democrats would be pissed off and would go out to vote for him again if health care reform is set back and Republicans have provided no decent alternative plan a few years after fighting against the initial bill.

The last thing Mitt Romney wants to do is promise a concrete plan to overhaul the health care system. It'll be like the immigration thing a couple days ago, Romney will have to pull off a triple flip-flop.
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Politics aside, it will suck for the country. Somewhere in the HCR arguments we lost that part of the debate.
 
It's sad to see what is suppose to be an institutional of justice, basically totally casting aside justice in favor of pure politics. Fucking millions in the process. The whole Republican party is like, I don't know, like the political version of the RIAA. Basically unconstrained greed and power hunger without regard to the people they are suppose to represent.
 
The leftists failed to win in Greece, good news for the Eurozone I guess - and of course for the US (for now). Will be interesting to see how the markets react tomorrow.
 
SouthernDragon said:
If HCR gets overturned, I want a single-payer system with heavily regulated private insurance companies like France or Germany.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man. Like that's ever going to happen without a democrat super-majority.
 
HyperionX said:
It's sad to see what is suppose to be an institutional of justice, basically totally casting aside justice in favor of pure politics. Fucking millions in the process. The whole Republican party is like, I don't know, like the political version of the RIAA. Basically unconstrained greed and power hunger without regard to the people they are suppose to represent.
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I'm finally at the point where I really don't care who wins the presidency. It doesn't matter any more. There's not one lobbyist in Washington that represents the lower/middle-class. The GOP is firmly in the pockets of the corporations and the democrats aren't doing much better.

I used to participate in discussions in PoliGAF regularly but with each passing day it all seems so fruitless.
 
Plinko said:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man. Like that's ever going to happen without a democrat super-majority.
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You'd need a vetoproof majority to get that.

I've kind of come around to the idea that even if Obama wins (which I still think is very likely of happening), there's always going to be some caveat attached to a Democratic victory that's going to impede progress - whether it's Republicans holding the House, winning the Senate, still having a majority on SCOTUS, whatever. As an activist I'd rather focus on efforts to turn Minnesota into Canada Jr. (with single-payer, progressive budget, and more money in education and transportation) than the US.

But obviously, I'd still much rather have Obama than Romney.
 
Plinko said:
I'm finally at the point where I really don't care who wins the presidency. It doesn't matter any more. There's not one lobbyist in Washington that represents the lower/middle-class. The GOP is firmly in the pockets of the corporations and the democrats aren't doing much better.

I used to participate in discussions in PoliGAF regularly but with each passing day it all seems so fruitless.
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I hope you're still planning to vote. A non-vote by you is the same as a vote for Romney.
 
Single payer? lol. Best get ready for insurance across states lines, maybe some exchanges, no per-existing condition coverage, 26yo on insurance, and that's about it. Maybe filling the medicare D hole again depending on what Boehner can do with his caucus.
 
Plinko said:
I'm finally at the point where I really don't care who wins the presidency. It doesn't matter any more. There's not one lobbyist in Washington that represents the lower/middle-class. The GOP is firmly in the pockets of the corporations and the democrats aren't doing much better.

I used to participate in discussions in PoliGAF regularly but with each passing day it all seems so fruitless.
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America's best bet might be four or five left wing Presidents in a row, like what happened during the Roosevelt-Truman years. After that the hard right elements of the Republican party dissipated dramatically, though sadly it didnt't die off completely.
 
PhoenixDark said:
After a summer of sub 90k jobs a month, the end of Obamacare, and Greece leaving the Eurozone thus throwing the world back into recession? Romney should have a 3 point lead after the summer which expands after the conventions. Seriously, how does Obama win with so much out of his or anyone's control?
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I'd just like to point out that the pro-Euro party in Greece won the election.

But it's funny seeing everyone lose their shit and proclaiming King Romney.
 
Ginsburg cracked a joke about the health care case and the individual mandate. “If the individual mandate, requiring the purchase of insurance or the payment of a penalty, if that is unconstitutional, must the entire act fall?” she said, then offering up the alternative to throwing out the whole law because of the mandate. “Or, may the mandate be chopped, like a head of broccoli, from the rest of the act?”
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Hmm
 
The Ron Paul race war is coming: http://nationaljournal.com/columns/political-connections/just-like-the-gipper-20120614

Most polls this spring show Obama running near the 52 percent he won among those upscale white women in 2008, and also remaining very close to his 80 percent showing among all minorities. If Obama can hold that level of support from those two groups, Romney could amass a national majority only by winning nearly two-thirds of all other whites—the men with college degrees, and the men and women without them. To put that challenge in perspective, Reagan, while winning his historic landslide, carried a combined 66.5 percent of those three groups. To defeat Obama, in other words, Romney may need to equal Reagan.

In 2010, House Republicans fell just short of winning a combined two-thirds of the vote from working-class whites and college-educated white men.
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Things working against Romney:

1. He isn't Reagan.
2. Even in their best year, 2010, Republicans did not pull Reagan numbers.
3. The Southern Strategy is dead. Time to move on Republicans.
 
Guileless said:
Naomi Wolf wrote a book in 07 or so (that was taken seriously) arguing the Bush Administration was instituting a fascist dictatorship. And this is from Politico about the Wilson heckling:


In 2004, Democrats delivered a “Chorus Of Boos” during Bush's Bush’s State Of The Union when he called for renewal of the Patriot Act., according to the Washington Times.

In 2005, Dems howled, hissed and shouted "No!" when Bush pushed for Social Security reform in the SOU:  "Foreshadowing the contentiousness of the coming debate, Democrats broke decorum and booed twice," according to the National Journal.

At the time, CNN's Bill Schneider remarked,  “It was unusual. I had never heard it at least at that level before. The Democrats clearly were booing, heckling, saying no when the president talked about the crisis in Social Security."

I agree it's demeaning, but it's a result of our political culture, not the malevolence on one side of the aisle.
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Yep, there is no malevolence when you insinuate that being a Muslim is bad.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Single payer? lol. Best get ready for insurance across states lines, maybe some exchanges, no per-existing condition coverage, 26yo on insurance, and that's about it. Maybe filling the medicare D hole again depending on what Boehner can do with his caucus.
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Its going to be be fun when they all move to Delaware and South Dakota and jack up their prices
 
Aaron Strife said:
You'd need a vetoproof majority to get that.

I've kind of come around to the idea that even if Obama wins (which I still think is very likely of happening), there's always going to be some caveat attached to a Democratic victory that's going to impede progress - whether it's Republicans holding the House, winning the Senate, still having a majority on SCOTUS, whatever. As an activist I'd rather focus on efforts to turn Minnesota into Canada Jr. (with single-payer, progressive budget, and more money in education and transportation) than the US.

But obviously, I'd still much rather have Obama than Romney.
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If that's the case Vermont is farther along than Minnesota.
 
Dr. Pangloss said:
The Ron Paul race war is coming: http://nationaljournal.com/columns/political-connections/just-like-the-gipper-20120614



Things working against Romney:

1. He isn't Reagan.
2. Even in their best year, 2010, Republicans did not pull Reagan numbers.
3. The Southern Strategy is dead. Time to move on Republicans.
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You missed the next two paragraphs:

That comparison underscores how important it is for Republicans to eventually loosen the Democratic hold on minority voters (and, to a lesser extent, upscale white women): It’s unrealistic to believe that GOP nominees can routinely match Reagan’s historic performance with all other whites. But all evidence suggests that it’s not beyond Romney’s reach this year. Even nearing Reagan’s level would be enough for Romney if Obama slips slightly with minorities or well-educated white women and lowers the bar that the GOP must clear with the remaining whites.

In 2010, House Republicans fell just short of winning a combined two-thirds of the vote from working-class whites and college-educated white men. Polls this year show Obama attracting only about one-third of noncollege whites, as few as Mondale. Obama’s support among college-educated white men rarely pokes much above 40 percent. And even these numbers could erode further if the economic stall persists. “In terms of the white vote, those numbers have been in dangerous territory for over a year,” says veteran Democratic pollster Peter Hart, who advised Mondale. “You can’t read the numbers I read and be optimistic.”
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Obama's at a good place now, even if barely, but that could slip in record time.
 
Diablos said:
Hmm
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You left out the park about the broccoli reference being a joke which the room laughed at. It was in reference to Scalia's ridiculous broccoli mandate analogy

Gingsburg seemed rather calm while talking about HCR, arguing those who spent hours dissecting what the justices might have been thinking during the hearing were barking up the wrong tree. Maybe we'll get an uneventful 6-3 ruling in favor of the law, maybe not. I tend to think the mandate at least will go
 
Dax01 said:
If that's the case, Vermont is farther along than Minnesota.
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Definitely, although VT has the benefit of an overwhelming Dem legislature and governor.

Here in MN, Gov. Dayton is very liberal, but he only won in a squeaker and the GOP holds the House and Senate. When Dems did hold big majorities, we had Gov. Pawlenty, so single-payer has never really been on the table. During the Pawlenty years, it did reach near-majority status in the state house/senate in terms of legislators' stated positions, but was never brought to an actual vote.

But 2010 was an anomaly and I fully expect Democrats to regain the majority, giving Dayton a trifecta. Some form of single-payer will be in the cards, I'm sure.

PhoenixDark said:
Gingsburg seemed rather calm while talking about HCR, arguing those who spent hours dissecting what the justices might have been thinking during the hearing were barking up the wrong tree. Maybe we'll get an uneventful 6-3 ruling in favor of the law, maybe not. I tend to think the mandate at least will go
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Pelosi also made a rather bullish prediction that it'll be upheld 6-3. It seems odd that she'd delve into a specific prediction like that.

One argument I've heard for keeping most of the law intact is that many of the provisions (like children staying on their parents' plans until they're 26) are already in effect, and the SC might not want to ruffle anyone's feathers by revoking those. Kennedy and Roberts seemed to express some concern to this effect for the corporations during the hearings, at least.

If HCR is upheld and the jobs situation picks up a bit, June might not be so bad for Obama. And if we're past Labor Day and Obama and Romney are more or less tied (advantage Obama) like they are now, I could see Obama opening up a solid lead on the heels of the debates and whatnot.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Definitely, although VT has the benefit of an overwhelming Dem legislature and governor.

Here in MN, Gov. Dayton is very liberal, but he only won in a squeaker and the GOP holds the House and Senate. When Dems did hold big majorities, we had Gov. Pawlenty, so single-payer has never really been on the table. During the Pawlenty years, it did reach near-majority status in the state house/senate in terms of legislators' stated positions, but was never brought to an actual vote.

But 2010 was an anomaly and I fully expect Democrats to regain the majority, giving Dayton a trifecta. Some form of single-payer will be in the cards, I'm sure.
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That's certainly something worth hoping for.
 
Dr. Pangloss said:
3. The Southern Strategy is dead. Time to move on Republicans.
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It's not dead so much as it is maxed out. The South took over the party. I suppose you may have meant something along those lines, though.

SouthernDragon said:
Guys, I was saying what I want.

Like, I want money to pay off my student loans and mortgage. It ain't likely, but that doesn't stop me from hoping.
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It'd be good for the economy.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi also made a rather bullish prediction that it'll be upheld 6-3. It seems odd that she'd delve into a specific prediction like that.

One argument I've heard for keeping most of the law intact is that many of the provisions (like children staying on their parents' plans until they're 26) are already in effect, and the SC might not want to ruffle anyone's feathers by revoking those. Kennedy and Roberts seemed to express some concern to this effect for the corporations during the hearings, at least.

If HCR is upheld and the jobs situation picks up a bit, June might not be so bad for Obama. And if we're past Labor Day and Obama and Romney are more or less tied (advantage Obama) like they are now, I could see Obama opening up a solid lead on the heels of the debates and whatnot.
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Honestly I'd put more weight on Ginsburg's comments than Pelosi, who is always going to toe the party line and project confidence; I remember her being 100% confident in dems holding the House on the eve of that election.

You're right about the court possibly not wanting to upend benefits people are already getting, as well as the corporate interests that support the bill. I always expect the worse for everything, but I do believe that if the law is upheld it'll be a clear 6-3. Whereas if it's shitcanned I expect a 5-4
 
Told you guys when the case was being argued that Roberts did not want to be on a 5-4 decision of something this major. I could totally see a 6-3.

Still could be shot down but I just don't see Kennedy and Roberts being on the side that damns Health Care
 
SouthernDragon said:
What about the fuckin' people that'll be affected?!
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Conservatives care more about money than people.

PhoenixDark said:
Honestly I'd put more weight on Ginsburg's comments than Pelosi, who is always going to toe the party line and project confidence; I remember her being 100% confident in dems holding the House on the eve of that election.
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Cool, my record's the same as Nancy Pelosi's.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi also made a rather bullish prediction that it'll be upheld 6-3.
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Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi also made a rather bullish prediction that it'll be upheld
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Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi also made a rather bullish prediction
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Aaron Strife said:
Pelosi
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Seriously? You think she wants to explain what this picture was about if Obamacare gets thrown out:

20100321_pelosi_gavel_33.jpg
 
markatisu said:
Told you guys when the case was being argued that Roberts did not want to be on a 5-4 decision of something this major. I could totally see a 6-3.

Still could be shot down but I just don't see Kennedy and Roberts being on the side that damns Health Care
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I don't see them being on the side that allows Congress the unilateral power upholding Obamacare, especially the mandate, would bring.

Most insurers have already said they are keeping in what has already been implemented and exchanges are something that can and will be implemented by the private sector.
 
teruterubozu said:
The fact is news ratings are pure shit, but Fox gets the major share. So it's a doomed programming format. And even worse, nobody cares.

But you're right. That's why I listen to Rush and Beck everyday, that way I know EXACTLY what the media (and Baggins & Kosmo) will talking about for the rest of the day. It's uncanny, really.
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The most telling parts are when they pick up really bizarre, back-page stories like Solyndra and Van Jones and stuff. That's when you know they have no serious business talking politics.
 
PhoenixDark said:
That shit was so stupid
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Oh, come on. HCR passes, shit BOTH Republicans and Democrat Presidents have tried for 30-40 years.

It is a proud fucking moment and everybody involved should be damn proud of it. Even if the law overturns completely, some things wont't go back and we as a country are better off for it.
 
cartoon_soldier said:
Oh, come on. HCR passes, shit BOTH Republicans and Democrat Presidents have tried for 30-40 years.

It is a proud fucking moment and everybody involved should be damn proud of it. Even if the law overturns completely, some things wont't go back and we as a country are better off for it.
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I would have preferred less photo ops/stunts, more focus on explaining the bill in every outlet humanly possible. Instead we've got a bill no one likes because they don't know what it is, three years later
 
PhoenixDark said:
I would have preferred less photo ops/stunts, more focus on explaining the bill in every outlet humanly possible. Instead we've got a bill no one likes because they don't know what it is, three years later
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Democrats didn't do the best job at selling the bill, sure. Media wasn't interesting in telling people what the bill does too, which helped Republicans demonize it the way they did. To say they should not celebrate the end of a journey is ridiculous.
 
PhoenixDark said:
I would have preferred less photo ops/stunts, more focus on explaining the bill in every outlet humanly possible. Instead we've got a bill no one likes because they don't know what it is, three years later
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The latter point is salient, the former is irrelevant and the minimum expected when historic legislation is passed.
 
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