Support NeoGAF

[Byakuya769]

Saul Alinski!!!!

I don't even know who Saul Alinski is, but I always see that name mention in Yahoo comments.

He authored Rules for Radicals. Nuff said.

 

[Tim-E]

Seems perfectly reasonable.

It's completely reasonable.

 

[Kosmo]

It's completely reasonable.

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

 

[pigeon]

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

It's diplomacy, man. Hard, soft. Obama says "Egypt better work with us or we won't be friends any more," then his spokesman says "We like Egypt and we would like to continue to be friends with Egypt going forward." Good cop, bad cop. This is how you outline a position.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So what's the rationale for giving the stimulus to banks rather than ordinary people given how corrupt they are? What are the alternatives? What are banks 'supposed' to do with it and are there laws that prevent them from just keeping it?

Banks don't make more money by keeping it in their mattresses.

 

[kehs]

Uh-huh.

For anyone who's actually wondering, what Kosmo is trying to spin is that the WH clarified that Obama's saying "I don't think that we would consider them an 'ally'" was not, in fact, an official announcement of a change in status for Egypt as far as the US is concerned.

Derp.

I figured that's what he was shooting for but

 

[RDreamer]

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

Why does clarifying something mean you have no balls? It looks like the White House got asked if that signified a change in policy, since Egypt was designated a non-NATO ally. They responded with a reasonable explanation that we don't have a legal defense treaty with them, for example, and that what Obama said doesn't signal a change in that specific policy. What's wrong with all this?

 

[Clevinger]

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

No apologies!
No clarifications!

 

[GhaleonEB]

Why does clarifying something mean you have no balls? It looks like the White House got asked if that signified a change in policy, since Egypt was designated a non-NATO ally. They responded with a reasonable explanation that we don't have a legal defense treaty with them, for example, and that what Obama said doesn't signal a change in that specific policy. What's wrong with all this?

To add, it doesn't walk back his initial statement at all. Simply elaborates on it, in response to questions about whether it's a change in policy.

 

[Tim-E]

Why does clarifying something mean you have no balls?

If we aren't threatening everyone on earth, then we have no balls.

 

[RDreamer]

No apologies!
No clarifications!

If we aren't threatening everyone on earth, then we have no balls.

Foreign policy from the right is weird.

 

[Angry Fork]

The theory is that if the economy begins to grow, inflation and interest will grow, which means that debts people took on before the growth of the economy will be less relevant. If the interest on a loan you took out is less than the inflation rate, or less than the rate of return on a safe investment like a savings account, then it's basically free money for you -- it's a "float." So there's a strong motivation for people who think they have a pretty good investment idea, or who think that the inflation rate will go up, to borrow money and invest it immediately, which causes it to circulate and thus grows the economy.

A very simple example, banks participate in loans that are given to businesses. Suppose you come up with an idea of mobile restaurants. You need money to buy a truck/trailer, so you go to the bank for a loan. Now the risk on invensting a loan isn't that high, it will motivate the lending officer to lend out a loan, and they might even participate in it: $10,000 to you matched by another $10,000 from the bank. This is what the fed wants the banks to do. They're trying to reduce the risk in lending, so more capital is flowing into the market.

What happens if people don't borrow from banks because they're weary of them though? I'm one of those people that don't want to get a credit card because I've heard such bad things about companies I don't want to get involved in the first place. Is this a legitimate concern for people who want to start small businesses or do they not care about that kind of thing and are fine with borrowing from banks?

At what point does bad PR and negative reaction towards big banks/capital make things worse and people just start to keep their money in their house or something? Is it worse if they just split the 40 billion per month among everyone and send a check to people? Or is it more about enticing small business starters rather than getting people to buy things?

Banks don't make more money by keeping it in their mattresses.

Then if increasing CEO bonus/pay isn't productive why do they do it and are able to continue getting away with it?

edit - Not trying to be confrontational with you guys btw I'm genuinely interested and don't know so that's why I'm asking.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

No one else is worried about the Senate? Dems need to keep that majority...

 

[Cloudy]

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

Imagine if he'd said they're still an ally yesterday? It would have been open season on Fox. Romney was right! He does sympathize with our enemies!!!!!

 

[Cloudy]

last time i looked at intrade for a huge politcal bet was the obamacare ruling, they lost bad lol

They also missed on Pujols' new team. I've never seen it miss on something that can be polled though...

 

[Kosmo]

The same people here who support this type of Fed pumping are the same ones who love to post that Reaganomics picture. Explain the real difference to me.

 

[kaching]

Foreign policy from the right is weird.

It's simple - always the opposite of what Obama says.

 

[Angry Fork]

What exactly do you think is going to happen?

I don't know I just don't like the idea of owing a big conglomerate or even just a person money. I don't need a credit card right now though so I guess that's the other reason I don't bother. I imagine getting one, using it, and then come to find they charge some sort of interest or extra fee and you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to find out why how to fix it etc.

 

[TacticalFox88]

The same people here who support this type of Fed pumping are the same ones who love to post that Reaganomics picture. Explain the real difference to me.

EDIT: Fuck, quoted the wrong person.

 

[The Librarian]

The same people here who support this type of Fed pumping are the same ones who love to post that Reaganomics picture. Explain the real difference to me.

You won't be convinced otherwise, so there's no point.

 

[PhoenixDark]

....Because this helps the working class and not the elite 1 percent?

how does this help the working class

 

[popeutlal]

Awesome Fox headline: Obama Calls Libyan President to Thank Him After US Ambassador Murdered

http://nation.foxnews.com/egypt/201...sident-thank-him-after-us-ambassador-murdered

 

[eBay Huckster]

Which is why I'm wondering why the White house is trying to clarify it. No balls.

Stick to discussions relevant to your job, foreign policy is clearly beyond your pay grade

 

[Cloudy]

The same people here who support this type of Fed pumping are the same ones who love to post that Reaganomics picture. Explain the real difference to me.

One of the Fed's job is to pursue monetary policies that help achieve maximum employment. They are doing their job.

 

[RDreamer]

Paulites talking about doing more crazy things.

 

[Kosmo]

EDIT: Fuck, quoted the wrong person.

...because the banks are loaning all kinds of money now with interest rates basically at 0%...

One of the Fed's job is to pursue monetary policies that help achieve maximum employment. They are doing their job.

Are you making the argument that banks do not have cheap money right now to loan?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I don't know I just don't like the idea of owing a big conglomerate or even just a person money. I don't need a credit card right now though so I guess that's the other reason I don't bother. I imagine getting one, using it, and then come to find they charge some sort of interest or extra fee and you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to find out why how to fix it etc.

There isn't really a "trick" to owning a credit card responsibly. You use it to buy what you can afford to pay off within a month, the end. Yes, they can be predatory in the sense that they offer introductory rates that balloon if you miss a payment, etc. but that's all moot if you.. don't miss a payment. You don't even pay interest if you don't carry a balance over into the next month.

The economy runs on credit. People and businesses can't just not take bank loans ever--for starters, payroll is usually dependent on short-term loans. The reason you are just about absolutely guaranteed a paycheck every week (or two weeks) is because of bank loans.

 

[Cloudy]

how does this help the working class

This is a move to spur hiring first and foremost (companies have a lower cost to borrow money to invest). Second, working class folks have 401ks/pensions and this gives those a boost. Also, maintaining a low interest rate environment helps homebuyers

 

[Kosmo]

There isn't really a "trick" to owning a credit card responsibly. You use it to buy what you can afford to pay off within a month, the end. Yes, they can be predatory in the sense that they offer introductory rates that balloon if you miss a payment, etc. but that's all moot if you.. don't miss a payment. You don't even pay interest if you don't carry a balance over into the next month.

The economy runs on credit. People and businesses can't just not take bank loans ever--for starters, payroll is usually dependent on short-term loans. The reason you are just about absolutely guaranteed a paycheck every week (or two weeks) is because of bank loans.

But, but they tricked me with a free t-shirt on Spring Break!

 

[RustyNails]

What happens if people don't borrow from banks because they're weary of them though? I'm one of those people that don't want to get a credit card because I've heard such bad things about companies I don't want to get involved in the first place. Is this a legitimate concern for people who want to start small businesses or do they not care about that kind of thing and are fine with borrowing from banks?

At what point does bad PR and negative reaction towards big banks/capital make things worse and people just start to keep their money in their house or something? Is it worse if they just split the 40 billion per month among everyone and send a check to people? Or is it more about enticing small business starters rather than getting people to buy things?

You're not looking at the big picture. You're focusing on your personal finance, which is fine. But major revenue for banks comes from lending business loans, not personal ones. You may be hesitant to interact with banks to get get credit cards or PLs, but entrepreneurs aren't. Not everyone on kickstarter might like your restaurant-on-wheels idea. Of course banks are evil and their CEO's are pirates, etc etc. But CEO's can buy yachts and have strippers n coke parties on the 11th floor only if their business is making a profit, at least that's what conventional wisdom leads us to believe. QE only tries to increase the flow of cash between banks and customers and nothing else. It's not a bailout.

Also, keeping money in your home under a mattress is a very, very bad idea.

 

[speculawyer]

It's diplomacy, man. Hard, soft. Obama says "Egypt better work with us or we won't be friends any more," then his spokesman says "We like Egypt and we would like to continue to be friends with Egypt going forward." Good cop, bad cop. This is how you outline a position.

And if you noticed, Egypt's leader Morsi just condemned the attacks (even though he is pretty sympathetic with them).

 

[giga]

Awesome Fox headline: Obama Calls Libyan President to Thank Him After US Ambassador Murdered

http://nation.foxnews.com/egypt/201...sident-thank-him-after-us-ambassador-murdered

ThePunisher1958 knows his stuff.

 

[gcubed]

But, but they tricked me with a free t-shirt on Spring Break!

my freshman year in college wardrobe consisted mainly of these.

 

[Cloudy]

Are you making the argument that banks do not have cheap money right now to loan?

Apparently it's not enough cos the recession has been so hard to recover from. I trust Bernanke more than politicians and if he thinks this needs to be done, I support it..

 

[matthewwhatever]

No one else is worried about the Senate? Dems need to keep that majority...

I'm a little concerned. I said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again: if the GOP wins the Senate and Obama is re-elected, they'll try to impeach him. It won't matter whether they have any grounds for it, it won't matter that it won't get the necessary number of votes for it to happen. They didn't have much reason to go after Clinton at first either, but they dug and dug until finally, they found something, however tenuous it may have been. Heck, even if they don't find anything, Grover Norquist said they'd impeach him over letting the Bush tax cuts expire. I very much hope to be wrong on this, but considering the state of the current GOP, I fully expect them to embrace the worst possible path.

 

[somedevil]

You can tell they are desperate because NY Post has on its online website one of the top 3 stories is the Rasmussen poll where Romney is up 1 ignoring all the other polling out there where Obama is up by 5.

http://www.nypost.com/

 

[GhaleonEB]

But, but they tricked me with a free t-shirt on Spring Break!

Heh. The lack of about how credit works is a problem, though. I think we're making some headway on this front.

Granted I work in finance, but I've explained to my kids - 7 and 10 - how credit cards work and how important it is to pay it off every month. I even modeled out how much interest you'd pay for some basic purchases if we only pay the minimum. This is the kind of stuff people need to know well before they ever get a card.

 

[Angry Fork]

There isn't really a "trick" to owning a credit card responsibly. You use it to buy what you can afford to pay off within a month, the end. Yes, they can be predatory in the sense that they offer introductory rates that balloon if you miss a payment, etc. but that's all moot if you.. don't miss a payment. You don't even pay interest if you don't carry a balance over into the next month.

The economy runs on credit. People and businesses can't just not take bank loans ever--for starters, payroll is usually dependent on short-term loans. The reason you are just about absolutely guaranteed a paycheck every week (or two weeks) is because of bank loans.

What happens if a lot of people have credit cards but then are unable to pay what they owe? Do the interest rates just keep going up? Do you imprison all of them? How does that affect the economy?

Those will be my last questions, sorry for staying on this topic I know you guys are a lot more knowledgeable though and I haven't gotten into economics books/subjects yet so gaf is sort of my starting ground.

 

[RustyNails]

I don't know why more people use Hotel/Flight credit cards. Rack up enough points get free nights/air tickets. I personally love my United Explorer chase credit card (goes with United airlines). Going to get Marriot rewards one real soon, but have to time it properly. They will give a free night instantly, but valid only for 6 months.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I'm a little concerned. I said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again: if the GOP wins the Senate and Obama is re-elected, they'll try to impeach him.

Let go of your fear.

 

[Oblivion]

Was waiting for the Cain Train to weigh in on the embassy thing:

The #MSM is hammering #Romney? Sure, that makes sense. Go after someone standing up for #FreeSpeech

 

[tranciful]

There isn't really a "trick" to owning a credit card responsibly. You use it to buy what you can afford to pay off within a month, the end. Yes, they can be predatory in the sense that they offer introductory rates that balloon if you miss a payment, etc. but that's all moot if you.. don't miss a payment. You don't even pay interest if you don't carry a balance over into the next month.

To expand on this, I recommend anyone with self control get a credit card. I have a Discover card that I basically use as a debit card -- never paid a cent in interest because I pay it off every month, but I've gotten hundreds of bucks as cash back bonuses and it builds my credit score. Literally free money. Discover pays me to use their card. I find it hilarious.

 

[pigeon]

I'm a little concerned. I said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again: if the GOP wins the Senate and Obama is re-elected, they'll try to impeach him.

I hope so. I kind of assumed that people couldn't possibly get more mad at the GOP, but impeaching two Democratic presidents in a row on trumped-up charges would probably do it.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Romney: Obama Wants U.S. To Have Capacity For One Military Conflict At A Time

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/romney-obama-wants-us-to-have-capacity-for

Ughhhhhhhhhhh

Has a presidential candidate ever flat out lied this much about their opponent?

After the past couple of days, Romney has succeeded in not only pushing me to donate more money to Obama's campaign, but I am seriously contemplating volunteering at my local campaign office.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Was waiting for the Cain Train to weigh in on the embassy thing:

Wait what? What the FUCK does Free Speech have to do with anything?

 

[The Technomancer]

There isn't really a "trick" to owning a credit card responsibly. You use it to buy what you can afford to pay off within a month, the end. Yes, they can be predatory in the sense that they offer introductory rates that balloon if you miss a payment, etc. but that's all moot if you.. don't miss a payment. You don't even pay interest if you don't carry a balance over into the next month.

True, but the predatory practices are still a problem because of unpredictable events. Its all well and good to budget your credit card usage to what you can pay off every month until something you didn't expect happens and suddenly you're out $500 that you hadn't accounted for. This isn't a problem if you have a significant safety buffer of course, but the problem is how many people in low-income situations have that?

 

[Angry Fork]

To expand on this, I recommend anyone with self control get a credit card. I have a Discover card that I basically use as a debit card -- never paid a cent in interest because I pay it off every month, but I've gotten hundreds of bucks as cash back bonuses and it builds my credit score. Literally free money. Discover pays me to use their card. I find it hilarious.

I didn't know it could be like this. But are there limits on what you can buy? Like is it only large purchases over x amount of dollars or something? Do they tell you how much you need to spend/pay back in order to get x amount of bonuses back and so on? Are you allowed to quit the card whenever you want or is it some sort of contract?

I hope so. I kind of assumed that people couldn't possibly get more mad at the GOP, but impeaching two Democratic presidents in a row on trumped-up charges would probably do it.

rofl. That face if Obama wins.

 

[sc0la]

Holy crap.

Interesting insight into Intrade's perspective. Romney gets jumped all over by every media outlet? He can weather that. QE3? IT'S OVER GO FOR THE LIFEBOATS

edit: replaced link

Why do you think Perry threatened to string Bernanke up by his toes?

Really though Intrade was bound to be bearish on Obama till late in the game. Their demographic is largely male, poker players, in mid 20s to mid 40s, and disproportionately white.

If it wasn't such a gray area I would have considered buying a ton of shares earlier in the week when 538 was pushing 80 on the electoral map and intrade stil had him in mid-high 50%s

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

What happens if a lot of people have credit cards but then are unable to pay what they owe? Do the interest rates just keep going up? Do you imprison all of them? How does that affect the economy?

Those will be my last questions, sorry for staying on this topic I know you guys are a lot more knowledgeable though and I haven't gotten into economics books/subjects yet so gaf is sort of my starting ground.

Nobody's had to worry about debtor's prison since the early 19th century. You get hassled by debt collectors if you are delinquent. You cannot be thrown in jail, but your credit rating is shot, and if you are delinquent enough you essentially cannot get a loan for a car, house, or even rent an apartment (landlords will check your credit rating) for years.

Note that if you have zero credit history, your situation isn't a whole lot better.

True, but the predatory practices are still a problem because of unpredictable events. Its all well and good to budget your credit card usage to what you can pay off every month until something you didn't expect happens and suddenly you're out $500 that you hadn't accounted for. This isn't a problem if you have a significant safety buffer of course, but the problem is how many people in low-income situations have that?

This is true and I didn't mean to imply that the credit industry is anything close to peaches and sunshine. If you are really living paycheck to paycheck, a credit card could get you in trouble even with your best intentions. The point of having one is to eventually have access to middle-class things--your own house, a car, etc. If you are making enough to save money every month towards major purchases, you should have one and use it responsibly to build credit.

Double edit: On the other other hand, a credit card is handy in emergencies where you absolutely have to pay for something (emergency medical, say) but literally don't have the cash on hand. It may be more feasible for you to pay off the credit card over a couple of months, accepting that you're paying more overall, than coming up with the principal all at once.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Wait what? What the FUCK does Free Speech have to do with anything?

That's the talking point.