• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Drek

Member
My concern does lie with the individual mandate because both myself and my parents cannot afford insurance. I wouldn't worry if we were getting Massachusetts Romney. That's the thing really, I have no idea what kind of president Mitt will be if he gets elected.

A shitty one.

Romney isn't hard to figure out for people who've paid real attention to his political career. He hides it well from the public eye only because the media refuses to call him out on his massive flip flopping. Here's where Mitt Romney really stands on issues, no matter what he currently says:

1. At his core he's a corporate/wealthy feudalist. He truly believes that the rich know what's best and that the rest of us should be happy they're willing to take the lead and show us the way forward in life. Internally he finds it insulting that the poor would even question the merits of this belief. Corporations have your best interest at heart because you're a cog in the machine and no corporation wants defective cogs, so stop squeaking so damn much.

2. On healthcare - He honestly doesn't give a shit about healthcare other than what is provided at the very top end of the sector, and that healthcare companies remain a strong Wall St. play. This is why he and his ilk talk about the American healthcare system being the best in the world. Because all the absurdly priced top end services aren't out of their reach. He truly believes that what we have now (minus Obamacare) is perfectly fine and if the poor wanted to live longer they'd do better at life, make more money, and be able to afford better care.

3. On taxes - Corporations and the wealthy should be effectively tax exempt, as it's by their largess that the rest of us survive. If only we were to unshackle them with the burden of taxation they would be free to stimulate our economy in the directions they saw fit, which thanks to their superiority would clearly be in the best direction for everyone. The taxes needed to run his dominant military can easily be raised from the lower and middle classes, who should be given the yolk to motivate them.

4. On foreign policy - means to an end. The major corporations from the U.S. now need a global stage upon which to work, and therefore it is the job of the federal gov't. to grease the skids for those corporate endeavors. Overall he would really like to just be able to flex American muscle and get what he wants without having to actually go to war. That is, unless the war is politically expedient. For example, with a President Romney we WILL go to war with Iran in the third year of his first term. Why? Because the U.S. electorate has shown a strong hesitancy in the past to remove a POTUS during a foreign engagement if they can avoid it and because it would further free up more middle east oil for U.S. based corporate consumption. The fact that it would tickle Israeli hardliners pink is only a bonus.

5. On immigration - generally doesn't care about the difference between poor white people born in the U.S. and poor brown people born somewhere else. This is why he seriously thinks his "self deportation" shit is a good idea. Obviously if we just have them all start from ground zero we'll have plenty of need for brown labor and import as much labor as is needed to get the jobs done.

In short, Romney's goal is to have a limp wristed domestic gov't. that could never stand up to the wealthy or major corporations, while at the same time constructing a massive military. The end result is the wealthy and major corporations effectively controlling a massive military that will strategically aid them in propagating their influence across the globe. To make matters worse, he would also celebrate the kind of corporate sovereignty that major global players like Exxon Mobile already espouse, so it's not like these corporations would steer the military towards what's best for the U.S. and it's people. Instead they'll be selling the U.S. out through the back door while beating the drums for major U.S. support in all their more public endeavors on the front end.
 
Except Obamacare won't be overturned. Its politically impossible at this point because elements of it are very popular. The republicans would have to break it up into pieces are try to push them through congress one by one, it just isn't going to happen.

They can easily starve funding for it.
 
Well that's the only element they could potentially remove, but that will just skyrocket cost as its a form of cost control. Even if it did happen, it wouldn't change the fact that people can't be denied coverage based on their state of health, not would it remove the other cost control measures in the bill. Romney knows this because our saving grace if he gets elected is that he has a smart and sensible economic team, so if that's your concern I really wouldn't worry.

I've been wondering if the Republicans would remove the mandate and then play chicken with the rest of the law. Sounds nuts to me, but these guy play tougher hands than Dems do.
 
Romney: ‘We need to win Ohio’

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-win-ohio-235352141--election.html

Take back America from what?

"That one"

mccain.jpg
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Your negativity is getting to me PoliGaf.

I can't sleep thinking about an Obama loss. Especially because of the removal of Obamacare which would be a tremendous help to me personally and my family.

Though the only likely circumstances that would culminate in an Obama loss would be if he fucks up in the next two debates, it still makes me uneasy. All Obama has to do is show up, and "tie" these debates and he's pretty much in.

Get out there and volunteer!

I wouldn't be too worried about the next debates. Despite people here blaming the media and making excuses for him, the fact is Obama was unprepared and did poorly, and the loss is squarely on him, and he realizes it. He's not a great debater but he won't get trounced again.
 

Brinbe

Member
Yep... Bams is spending this weekend prepping up for the debate in VA. He knows what's at stake and he's putting in the work instead of worrying. Every nervous dem needs to follow that example.

And in his latest piece, Nate touches on what most of us have been saying for weeks.
The only really good news for Democrats is that Mr. Obama had built up a large enough cushion that he could withstand a lot of damage without becoming the underdog. The forecast model still has him clinging to narrow leads in Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin and Nevada, states that in some combination would give him 270 electoral votes.
Until this changes, there's not much reason for worry. Pay attention to the recent polling and the electoral map, and nothing has changed in regards to the OH/WI/IA firewall.
 
Yep... Bams is spending this weekend prepping up for the debate in VA. He knows what's at stake and he's putting in the work instead of worrying. Every nervous dem needs to follow that example.

I was going to volunteer in NC, but then had to leave US :(

I can't vote for donate since I am not a US citizen. Fuck
 

Loudninja

Member
Ipsos debate poll breakdown
  • 90% of Registered Voters have seen, heard, or read at least something about the VP debate
  • Biden is seen to have done the better job by a margin of 7 points: 42% vs. 35% for Ryan (23% are unsure)
  • There was little change in overall favorability towards the two candidates pre- and post- debate. However, it does appear that the debate was good for the ‘party faithful’, because the proportion indicating they are ‘very favorable’ towards each man increased
  • However, the proportion saying that Romney’s selection of Ryan has made them ‘less favorable’ towards Romney increased from 21% before the debate to 27% after the debate
  • The final question asked whether Biden or Ryan is more qualified to be President, and Biden leads by 10 points (45% to 35%) - and this figure did not change significantly over the course of the debate.
http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5822
 

codhand

Member
I've been following poligaf since late 2007. PhoenixDark's posts - trolling or not - have more logic behind them than most in this thread.

This post proves that this thread is the greatest thread, and you can never sleep or you'll miss something brilliant.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Romney is starting his ad blitz. I'm skeptical that this is the right strategy as they ceded a ton of ground to Obama in the last few months, but it will be interesting.
 
shows again how amazing republicans are at predicting, controlling, and taking advantage of media narratives.

of course, it doesn't hurt that they own about half the media.
 
With Obama's early voting advantage in Ohio and Iowa, I've been wondering if revealing the 47% video would've been more useful now than before.

There's an argument to be made that it is helping with an early voter cushion. Otoh, maybe releasing the tape right post-debate would have blunted Romney's momentum. Or perhaps it would've been less effective against a Romney surge.
 

codhand

Member
With Obama's early voting advantage in Ohio and Iowa, I've been wondering if revealing the 47% video would've been more useful now than before.

There's an argument to be made that it cemented a lot of opinions of early voters. Otoh, maybe releasing the tape right now would blunt Romney's momentum. Or perhaps releasing the tape atm would be less effective against a Romney surge.

If the tape was coming out now it would be Romney with a buffer instead of Obama. Obama hit 85% likely to win before the debate.
 

isoquant

Member
Just watched the latest Warren-Brown debate. Warren put in a very strong performance. As this race has dragged on she has really come into her own as a candidate.

I hope that Obama's stumbles don't hamper her chances.
 

codhand

Member
Just watched the latest Warren-Brown debate. Warren put in a very strong performance. As this race has dragged on she has really come into her own as a candidate.

I hope that Obama's stumbles don't hamper her chances.

If anything she'll help Obama more than he could hurt her at this point.
 
PoliGAF fallout aside - what do you think the reaction will nationally if Obama loses? I don't think Democrats and their supporters in the media have been shy about pushing racial narratives into the debate and just wonder if they are stoking a powder keg that could blow up into riots, etc.
 
PoliGAF fallout aside - what do you think the reaction will nationally if Obama loses? I don't think Democrats and their supporters in the media have been shy about pushing racial narratives into the debate and just wonder if they are stoking a powder keg that could blow up into riots, etc.

Riots? Nah, Dems only get fired up when they're winning.

ex. This thread.
 

Chumly

Member
Romney is starting his ad blitz. I'm skeptical that this is the right strategy as they ceded a ton of ground to Obama in the last few months, but it will be interesting.
Hopefully Obama will be able to counter some of it. We know that the super pacs are paying significantly higher rates than the Obama team which helps out a lot.
 

codhand

Member
PoliGAF fallout aside - what do you think the reaction will nationally if Obama loses?

I'm gonna say the sad truth, America wasn't ready. The fact that the communist/kenyan/socialist narrative still exists four years later, says that at the very least some people never accepted his legitimacy.

a great big heaping dose of apathy because it literally takes mountains being moved for democrats to give a shit about anything

Yup, like eight years of Bush.
 
Personally, I would have to seriously consider leaving the country if Romney would win. My academic career is in green tech and policy. Romney has publicly shit on the proposition of further investment in green tech. I'd have to look elsewhere for the prospect of steady employment.
 
i think i've already said this, but i'm leaving the country regardless of who wins because i have a pre-existing condition (in the form of a genetic kidney disorder) and i'm sick and fucking tired of my future health literally being dependent on a coinflip between giant asshole and slightly less giant asshole.
 
Personally, I would have to seriously consider leaving the country if Romney would win. My academic career is in green tech and policy. Romney has publicly shit on the proposition of further investment in green tech. I'd have to look elsewhere for the prospect of steady employment.

Excellent.

Come to Yurop. Create that US braindrain and help us become pioneers in the future economy.



Wasn't able to watch the VP debate earlier, but saw a bit of snippets. And yes, I do agree with the sentiment that Biden seemed to be kinda dickish sometimes. You know, overcompensating the passive Obama with an aggressive and dismissive attitude towards Ryan.

Example: when Biden explains how the 20% tax cut can't be paid for, he is very good at explaining it. When Ryan says it can be done, Biden interrupts him several times to repeat: "no it really can't be done." This is the kinda assertiveness that I like. Call out bullshit when you hear it, and be frank about it so that the idiot viewers might actually think for a second and indeed consider if Ryan isn't lying his ass off. However, a few moments later Ryan begins his explanation and namedrops Kennedy, to which Biden replies "Oh now you're Jack Kennedy!". That is what I don't like. It's a comment out of nowhere, and is just being a dick, and obviously the result of the Obama team preparing Biden "to go at it!". Bidens elaborate laughs seem a little forced as well. It's not just a laugh out of frustration his opponent is a liar, which would be justified. It's a laugh obviously calculated to dismiss what Ryan is saying and make that clear to the viewers, which is poor behavior imo.

As a rule of thumb, emotional reactions such as anger, frustration, laughs, ... should be (or at least appear) genuine. I'm not sure Biden passed that test.
 
Without the debate flop, this would have been a poor strategy.

Now, it's smart.

Yep, this. It's like Giuliani's strategy of waiting until Florida to get into the race in 2008 - complete flop since he had no momentum going in there, got buried, and was gone. I don't know what the coffers look like on both sides, but the Obama campaign spent a lot of money in July and August trying to bury Romney on Bain, and it looks like that didn't move the needle one iota as we look at the current state of the race.

It's almost like watching a basketball game where one team gets up by 25 or 30 in the first half, complacency sets in, and when the final buzzer goes they lose by 10 points. That might be what we are seeing here.
 
The question is...

If Biden didn't laugh, would most viewers think Ryan had credibility? Let's not underestimate the psychological impact of someone's actions.

If you believe there was some impact, then the next question to raise is whether or not it was worth it for Biden to partially damage his own credibility in order to totally damage Ryan's credibility? Could he have done it with having a calm demeanor similar to Obama's demeanor?
 
Personally, I would have to seriously consider leaving the country if Romney would win. My academic career is in green tech and policy. Romney has publicly shit on the proposition of further investment in green tech. I'd have to look elsewhere for the prospect of steady employment.

I think if you were relying on a career based on government grants for green technology, you're probably right when it comes to a Romney presidency. If you really believe in green technology and think there is a way to make it economically viable for most Americans and are willing to put in the work to bring that to fruition, there is definitely money to be made there long term.

I kind of liken the green technology initiatives to the invention of the lightbulb. Yes, I think we all would like clean, infinitely available sources of energy at affordable prices, but to mandate that would be like the government mandating everyone switch to lightbulbs when they were first invented and quite expensive when people were perfectly happy using dirty, fire hazard prone candles (or kerosene), their main advantage being they were readily available and cheap. As the lightbulb was refined (without government grants) and infrastructure was put in place, first in large cities, everyone switched over and abandoned candles as their main source of artificial light.

This is likely what we'll see with green energy adoption, if I had to venture a guess. Once it's cheap enough, everyone will be on board.
 

RDreamer

Member
The question is...

If Biden didn't laugh, would most viewers think Ryan had credibility? Let's not underestimate the psychological impact of someone's actions.

If you believe there was some impact, then the next question to raise is whether or not it was worth it for Biden to partially damage his own credibility in order to totally damage Ryan's credibility? Could he have done it with having a calm demeanor similar to Obama's demeanor?

I think if Biden hadn't been quite as overbearing as he was, Ryan would have probably decidedly won. Ryan's a snake charmer. He seems to get people to go along with whatever BS lie he says. He has a way of making terribly unreasonable things sound slightly reasonable. I think people needed Biden to overplay it and really tell the audience that Ryan was blowing smoke up our asses. People tend to think that the truth is somewhere between the two candidates, even if it really really isn't. So if Ryan lies and Biden tries to correct normally people will think they're both bending the truth. If Ryan lies and Biden overplays and shows he's REALLY lying, then the middle ground is moved a bit closer to Biden.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
I think if you were relying on a career based on government grants for green technology, you're probably right when it comes to a Romney presidency. If you really believe in green technology and think there is a way to make it economically viable for most Americans and are willing to put in the work to bring that to fruition, there is definitely money to be made there long term.

I kind of liken the green technology initiatives to the invention of the lightbulb. Yes, I think we all would like clean, infinitely available sources of energy at affordable prices, but to mandate that would be like the government mandating everyone switch to lightbulbs when they were first invented and quite expensive when people were perfectly happy using dirty, fire hazard prone candles (or kerosene), their main advantage being they were readily available and cheap. As the lightbulb was refined (without government grants) and infrastructure was put in place, first in large cities, everyone switched over and abandoned candles as their main source of artificial light.

This is likely what we'll see with green energy adoption, if I had to venture a guess. Once it's cheap enough, everyone will be on board.

A better analogy might be to the TVA or the Hoover Dam.
 
The question is...

If Biden didn't laugh, would most viewers think Ryan had credibility? Let's not underestimate the psychological impact of someone's actions.

If you believe there was some impact, then the next question to raise is whether or not it was worth it for Biden to partially damage his own credibility in order to totally damage Ryan's credibility? Could he have done it with having a calm demeanor similar to Obama's demeanor?
Well, I was just talking about me personally. I don't like fake behavior and lies obscured by a superficial facade. As most poligaffers probably.

But we all know the general public is almost uniformly the opposite of us. They fall for this superficial shit. So when I say Biden was acting kinda dickish and that turned me off, it still might be considered a plus electoral wise, as you suggest. :)
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
PoliGAF fallout aside - what do you think the reaction will nationally if Obama loses? I don't think Democrats and their supporters in the media have been shy about pushing racial narratives into the debate and just wonder if they are stoking a powder keg that could blow up into riots, etc.

This is a bizarre take on the racial narrative in this election and should serve as a perfect example of shit that lives in the conservative bubble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom