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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.

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D

DragonSworne

Banned
Mario said:
They basically want to paint the administration as trying to avoid using the word terror or admitting to a terrorist attack in a proactive effort to avoid people questioning the successes of the administrations foreign policy, anti terror efforts and national security. Essentially, they are accusing the administration of purposely lying/misleading for political reasons.
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Typical republican tactic, accuse your opponents of what you are in fact doing yourself
 
S

Slime

Banned
So what's the word on these Libya cables the GOP released? CNN just showed one written by Stevens and it sounded pretty damning.
 
M

markatisu

Member
(Reads last page, sees chicken littles thinking IA could go read, rolls eyes)

The 2 main local news broadcasts here spent 10min talking about the ridiculous polling and trying to explain to viewers the fact that early voting has accounted for a lot of the state already

If the 3 city centers have voted its pretty much over, every demographic that supports Obama is in them vs the rural areas which are smaller and Romney demos (old and white).
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Slime said:
So what's the word on these Libya cables the GOP released? CNN just showed one written by Stevens and it sounded pretty damning.
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Rough for Obama, and will probably be a big part of the debate, but I don't think it will swing anyone unless there is a major slip-up in the debate.
 
N

nib95

Banned
AniHawk said:
no one in america really cares about it one way or another.
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Except Republicans seeking desperately to find anything to attack the President with. Even if it means politisising a tragedy or putting the thoughts, security or safety of Americans at risk.

At this point there's nothing else Obama can do. A communication mix up occurred, he and his secretary of state apologised and are taking every effort to rectify the issues. End of. I think Republicans continually picking at this might do themselves more damage.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
Slime said:
So what's the word on these Libya cables the GOP released? CNN just showed one written by Stevens and it sounded pretty damning.
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Love how CNN skirts the fact that these leaks from Issa's office also involved the names of innocent bystanders who are now in danger as a result of these leaks!
 
S

Slime

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
That gop leaked names of Libyans working for the US and put their lives in danger?
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That's what I was seeing last night, but I don't really know if it'll work. Do Americans really care about some Libyans, or will they see a now-dead ambassador complaining about inadequate security and making the distinction between targeted and random attacks a month before he died?

Just to be clear: I think Romney is an opportunistic piece of shit. I think Issa is a scumbag and I think it's disgusting he's putting lives in danger for political gain. I think the situation in Libya is far too nuanced to say the only verdicts are that the administration failed or that it's completely exempt of responsibility. I don't think it should be an issue in this election.

That said, I think a lot of us on the left are too cushy on this issue following Romney shooting first, the justified Issa loathing, and "Please proceed, Governor." We're trying to pretend it's a non-issue, but the GOP are heartless attack dogs when it comes to assigning blame, and unfortunately the voting public doesn't always recognize the sheer wrongness of that fact.

I dunno, I don't want to be too chicken little-y, but this issue doesn't seem to be dying. And I fear that these cables are the tipping point to helping it to really, truly have some legs. If Romney effectively (in the Rovian sense) hits on Obama with this, it could be serious business, especially if the press eats it up like CNN already appears to be doing.
 
W

watershed

Banned
"Please proceed, governor" and "Romnesia" are the two best things to come out of this election. Now Obama just needs to win or it will all be for nought.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Slime said:
That's what I was seeing last night, but I don't really know if it'll work. Do Americans really care about some Libyans, or will they see a now-dead ambassador complaining about inadequate security and making the distinction between targeted and random attacks a month before he died?

Just to be clear: I think Romney is an opportunistic piece of shit. I think Issa is a scumbag and I think it's disgusting he's putting lives in danger for political gain. I think the situation in Libya is far too nuanced to say the only verdicts are that the administration failed or that it's completely exempt of responsibility. I don't think it should be an issue in this election.

That said, I think a lot of us on the left are too cushy on this issue following Romney shooting first, the justified Issa loathing, and "Please proceed, Governor." We're trying to pretend it's a non-issue, but the GOP are heartless attack dogs when it comes to assigning blame, and unfortunately the voting public doesn't always recognize the sheer wrongness of that fact.

I dunno, I don't want to be too chicken little-y, but this issue doesn't seem to be dying. And I fear that these cables are the tipping point to helping it to really, truly have some legs. If Romney effectively (in the Rovian sense) hits on Obama with this, it could be serious business, especially if the press eats it up like CNN already appears to be doing.
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All this stuff was said last month again no one cares.

gkryhewy said:
Because it's a fake issue that republicans have cynically cultivated for political gain, and the public seems to have read that loud and clear?
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Thank you.
 
E

effzee

Member
Mario said:
They basically want to paint the administration as trying to avoid using the word terror or admitting to a terrorist attack in a proactive effort to avoid people questioning the successes of the administrations foreign policy, anti terror efforts and national security. Essentially, they are accusing the administration of purposely lying/misleading for political reasons.
Click to expand...

That plus the fact that the administration apparently received requests to beef up security BEFORE the attacks and they didn't. That the attack was pre-mediated and coincided with 9/11.

That does look bad. It is bad. If there was actual signs of this happening and they were ignored the administration has to take responsibility. But I feel like they are. And his other success outweigh this one failure.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
effzee said:
That plus the fact that the administration apparently received requests to beef up security BEFORE the attacks and they didn't. That the attack was pre-mediated and coincided with 9/11.

That does look bad. It is bad. If there was actual signs of this happening and they were ignored the administration has to take responsibility. But I feel like they are. And his other success outweigh this one failure.
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The requests were for Tripoli, and not Benghazi from my understanding.
 
I

ISOM

Member
Libya is really not an issue, at the end of the day no one cares about libya no matter how much republicans what to make a big deal out of it.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
I've said it before and will say it again. Libya would be devastating if this was 2004. It's not and the voting public won't give a shit and hold it against the guy whose administration has brought down Osama, ended Iraq, and is winding down Afghanistan. The public would care much more about Iran getting nuclear weapons than some Libyan rebels. Despite the fact that American were killed, many people have become desensitized to this kind of thing.
 
S

Slime

Banned
So I'm going through the documents, and holy shit. The Stevens cable (pgs. 36-37, "The Guns of August: Security in Eastern Libya") is discussing the city's security situation as a whole, not the embassy's. The way CNN characterized their insanely misleading snippet was that it was a request for aid at the embassy specifically.

You can disregard most of what I said now. They're turning into Fox News, Jr. or some shit.
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Watched the Obama Daily Show episode last night, and I don't understand what the big hoopla was over Obama's "Not optimal" remark. Sounded to me like he said his administration's response to the incident wasn't optimal. Were people trying to say that he said the deaths themselves "weren't optimal" or something?
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
demon said:
Watched the Obama Daily Show episode last night, and I don't understand what the big hoopla was over Obama's "Not optimal" remark. Sounded to me like he said his administration's response to the incident wasn't optimal. Were people trying to say that he said the deaths themselves "weren't optimal" or something?
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Incidentally I just finished watching it too. I'm guessing people were trying to do the latter, but it's clear he said the communication etc between the departements was not optimal. At least that's how it sounded. I too thought this was going to be something much worse but wow... can't believe they tried making this into a thing.

Edit: woops I skipped over your last night part, ignore my first sentence lol.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
VA:
-By a 53/45 margin voters trust Obama more than Romney to stand up for the middle class. And by a 50/43 spread they trust Obama more to make sure that the wealthiest American pay their fair share of taxes.

-Obama has a 51/47 lead with seniors, which may be driven in part by the fact that 51% of them trust Obama more to protect Medicare, compared to 46% of voters who pick Romney on that question.

-Obama’s leading 54/42 with women, 91/7 with African Americans, and 54/38 with voters under 30. Romney’s ahead 53/43 with men and 59/38 with white voters. The candidates are basically tied among independents with 45% going for Romney and 44% for Obama.
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http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/10/obama-leads-by-2-in-virginia.html

Nasty.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
The problem for Romney regarding Libya is that in the grand scheme of things it's trivial and people don't care. Especially after that exchange in the last debate.

The only way to successfully attack Obama is from the left:
Why all of the drones that are often killing innocent people, and creating a new generation of terrorists?

But from the Right? LOL. People don't like these wars and they're ending. Romney wants to toss a few more trillion to the cowardly neocons and let them do their parade in the Middle East.
 
O

Owzers

Member
teh_pwn said:
The problem for Romney regarding Libya is that in the grand scheme of things it's trivial and people don't care. Especially after that exchange in the last debate.

The only way to successfully attack Obama is from the left:
Why all of the drones that are often killing innocent people, and creating a new generation of terrorists?

But from the Right? LOL. People don't like these wars and they're ending. Romney wants to toss a few more trillion to the cowardly neocons and let them do their parade in the Middle East.
Click to expand...

they idea that fox ran many segments explaining the difference between "acts of terror" and "terrorist attack" is sad. Obama will still need a good answer for why additional security wasn't added, but the criticism for Rice saying the attack was due to the video will be destroyed with the new information that the cia did provide her with that talking point for the television shows.
 
H

Half and half

Member
teh_pwn said:
The problem for Romney regarding Libya is that in the grand scheme of things it's trivial and people don't care. Especially after that exchange in the last debate.

The only way to successfully attack Obama is from the left:
Why all of the drones that are often killing innocent people, and creating a new generation of terrorists?

But from the Right? LOL. People don't like these wars and they're ending. Romney wants to toss a few more trillion to the cowardly neocons and let them do their parade in the Middle East.
Click to expand...

I'm convinced that Romney's position only exists b/c he wanted to create a clear distinction between him and Obama. If Obama was already pushing a beefed up military, Romney would say it's not enough we need more.

edit:
+2 VA == great way to start the day.
 
S

soul creator

Member
teh_pwn said:
The problem for Romney regarding Libya is that in the grand scheme of things it's trivial and people don't care. Especially after that exchange in the last debate.

The only way to successfully attack Obama is from the left:
Why all of the drones that are often killing innocent people, and creating a new generation of terrorists?

But from the Right? LOL. People don't like these wars and they're ending. Romney wants to toss a few more trillion to the cowardly neocons and let them do their parade in the Middle East.
Click to expand...

Heh, I've pretty much felt the past 4 years that with very few exceptions, the only valid Obama criticisms seem to come from the left.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
What issa is doing may be more effective than what the rest of the GOP is doing regarding lybia.

I don't think people care that much about the reason for the attacks, and wheather state and CIA agreed about them.

People will care about security issues, and if the admin was shortchanging security. The cables actually present a mixed picture there but the headlines are really bad.
 
T

talisayNon

Member
teh_pwn said:
The problem for Romney regarding Libya is that in the grand scheme of things it's trivial and people don't care. Especially after that exchange in the last debate.

The only way to successfully attack Obama is from the left:
Why all of the drones that are often killing innocent people, and creating a new generation of terrorists?

But from the Right? LOL. People don't like these wars and they're ending. Romney wants to toss a few more trillion to the cowardly neocons and let them do their parade in the Middle East.
Click to expand...

a fucking men.

but god forbid we have real dialogue instead of fox news driven bullshit
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
AlteredBeast said:
We never took a dime of government help* despite being lower class my whole life.
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That was stupid of your parents. Pay tax their entire lives and refuse to use their contributions to improve their family's standard of living out of a misguided principle.
 
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