Why do you say that a rifle is more effective at killing waves of people? It's easier to grab the barrel of a rifle and wrest it away from a shooter than it is with a handgun, handguns are easier to conceal, you can get high capacity magazines for handguns and easily carry more than one and because rifle bullets travel at such a high velocity they sometimes pass straight through a persons body doing less damage than a handgun. I don't own any guns and I may be wrong, but a handgun seems just as dangerous as a rifle to me.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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Why do you say that a rifle is more effective at killing waves of people? It's easier to grab the barrel of a rifle and wrest it away from a shooter than it is with a handgun, handguns are easier to conceal, you can get high capacity magazines for handguns and easily carry more than one and because rifle bullets travel at such a high velocity they sometimes pass straight through a persons body doing less damage than a handgun. I don't own any guns and I may be wrong, but a handgun seems just as dangerous as a rifle to me.
The Librarian
Banned
"Mr. President, if the Treasury were to mint a trillion-dollar platinum coin, whose face would you like on it?"
bodyofanamerican
Member
Please continue to explain the debt ceiling like this. Every day if need be.
Dat bully pulpit.
Spelling out that Social Security checks, payments to troops, small businesses, etc. would be slashed or delayed. Quoting Boehner from two years ago that not passing the debt ceiling raise would be a global disaster. Really putting this all on the House GOP.
Spelling out that Social Security checks, payments to troops, small businesses, etc. would be slashed or delayed. Quoting Boehner from two years ago that not passing the debt ceiling raise would be a global disaster. Really putting this all on the House GOP.
Focusing on alcohol and drug use still isn't quite enough in my opinion. We need to focus on the media and how it affects us (including sensationalist news, someone needs to put their foot down but they wont because $$$), and education. By increasing education, you decrease "urban violence". That is a proven fact. By changing how the media gives us and what it focuses on would also alleviate a lot of issues.
As for banning handguns, there are instances where proper gun usage saves lives. There was a robbery by a group of young men, and one elderly man with proper gun safety used his pistol he had on him to strike and disable the men threatening everyone else. Some people said "well I'm afraid he had a weapon, what if he used it on us? What if he missed?" which is a valid concern, but he didn't.
Ideally we'd live in a world where guns aren't needed, but we don't.
I really wish we'd slash the military budget (most of it's spent on wars years gone, not even the current war we're on) and stop trying to be the world police. Of course it's not just world police, but trying to expand our influence into another country and the outlying regions.
Yes sir, here is a good writeup about it
http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/six-about-2nd.htm
Specifically such points as:
"The rights to a free press, free speech, assembly, and religion are extremely important but none of them matters very much if you cant defend your own life against aggression. None of them matters very much when an evil government is fully armed and its citizens are disarmed."
"The Second Amendment confines Congresss power by guaranteeing that the Congress cannot govern the militias right out of existence and thereby disarm the people. "
"The Federalists promised that state governments and citizen militias would exist to make sure the federal military never became large or oppressive. To say that the National Guard replaces the notion of the militia runs contrary to what the Founders said and wrote."
This is what I never got with what the Righties always say about the 2nd amendment:
1. It says right there in the amendment itself about a "well regulated" militia so that alone would make one thing the 2nd amendment isn't absolute with no restrictions whatsoever.
2. George Washington himself used the militias to quell Shay's Rebellion. Doesn't this negate the whole fucking rationale for the 2nd amend. entirely?
Chuck Todd seems to get worse every day.
Actually, we do live in a world where citizens don't need firearms, as evinced by the majority of industrialized nations without citizen-owned firearms, most of whom have considerably lower murder rates than we do.
Of course, we're going to keep chasing edge cases where the mentally ill and assault weapons are the focus, because otherwise we'd have to admit that our fetish for firearms might have something to do with the amount of gun crime we experience.
Right, but keep in mind the culture is also different. Isn't that more of the cause? We're afraid of sex, but not violence. Every other "first world" country it seems to be the opposite.
You do realize the order of the first ten amendments has nothing to do with their perceived importance by the Founding Fathers, right?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...cond_amendment_the_second_most_important.html
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Thank goodness he's clearing a lot of shit especially that Congress has already cleared the spending but can't pay due to the idiotic debt ceiling.
The order also doesn't match the original draft in which those amendments were proposed.
Well, that's an argument, but it's a pretty specious one considering the insane violence of Japanese media, or the fact that those less violent nations are watching the same violent media we're watching.
Couldn't have anything to do with the mass proliferation of firearms. Nope, must be the culture.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Damn he's really calling them out :O
Fenderputty
Banned
I thought he sounded good. He basically put house GOP on blast the entire time.
The Librarian
Banned
Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh. So it isn't Michelle's love Obama is having trouble getting...it's Sasha and Malia's.
PD was sort of right. I'm impressed.
PD was sort of right. I'm impressed.
I wasn't able to listen to the 2nd half of the press conference, where did you get that from?
The Librarian
Banned
It was in response to the last question. "Mr. President, you've been criticized for not spending enough time with members of Congress." Obama in response said:
1. Sasha and Malia are getting older, which means they don't want to spend as much time with him.
2. Most of the time Obama's now like
3. So he now wants more members of Congress to visit him so it takes his mind off his daughters going through puberty.
It was in response to the last question. "Mr. President, you've been criticized for not spending enough time with members of Congress." Obama in response said:
1. Sasha and Malia are getting older, which means they don't want to spend as much time with him.
2. Most of the time Obama's now like
3. So he now wants more members of Congress to visit him so it takes his mind off his daughters going through puberty.
thanks
Yeah, there was the blast. But they are just going to deny and say its his fault... I see what you mean though.
Is it even possible for the US with 300 million firearms to follow in the footsteps of other industrialized nations? Are you for a complete repeal of the 2nd amendment? Confiscation? A huge buyback program? No matter what we do, criminals and dangerous people are guaranteed to have relatively easy access to guns. I don't see why law abiding citizens should be prohibited from owning guns in light of that reality.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Wasn't he on the crazy side?
Fenderputty
Banned
Until recently yes.
It says all the things I wanted to say and/or agree with but did not have the references or knowledge to be able to say in the same way.
I obviously can't say "this was the intent as written by the founding fathers" as they are dead and all we have to go on is the document and things they have said about it in other places.
All I can really say is by looking from what people like Hamilton or Madison have said, and infer from that.
Really, if taken literally, it would seem that the second amendment does not specifically specify the US Government, but rather that if something like that happened, the amendment is broad enough to cover it.
While I answered your question, I'll be more direct. I don't have enough information in order to make the conclusion that the second amendment was specifically for the US Government at this time.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Did his positions move or did the crazy side get more crazy?
Haven't been following him.
No. This has never been an issue before as far as I can tell.
Ben Stein's pretty crazy when it comes to other things (dude's a proud creationist) but when it comes to economics, he's actually pretty reasonable.
Someone described him as the last openly Keynesian Republican.
its always an "issue". The other side bitches and complains, until the need to up the debt limit comes, then they up the debt limit
It would take generations, but better to start when there're 300 million than 600 million.
I don't think we'd have to repeal the 2nd, simply remove handguns from its umbrella. The Founding Fathers were talking about long guns, which I have less of a problem with.
I don't support confiscation, but I do support a series of buy backs until they stop producing fruit.
Yea it's always been a political thing (that they would use for elections and whatnot) but we have never actually ever been in any danger of default.
CS Monitor has a nice write up on green energy doing pretty well despite the naysayers:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary...made-smart-investments-in-green-tech/(page)/2
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary...made-smart-investments-in-green-tech/(page)/2
PhoenixDark
Banned
Mental health is important but isn't a major solution to gun violence IMO. Most gun owners follow the law and don't kill anyone, the problem is the spread of illegal guns in cities. As long as anyone can purchase weapons at gun shows, including straw purchasing guns, the problem will remain. Law enforcement would love a shot at cracking down on the violence with enforced background checks, tougher anyi-traffiking laws, an ATF that actually works, etc; many laws are already on the books, they just aren't enforced due to congress.
Handguns are responsible for most deaths. And while I support an automatic weapon ban, I don't think it would have much of an impact on school shootings. The Sandy shooter had two glocks which he could have killed as many children with, if not more; yet 100% of the focus is on the AR-15. Because of that it feels like this is more political than policy based. I'm glad Biden has talked to so many sides of this debate, especially mayors and law enforcement; they recognize the major issue is illegal guns.
If you want to prevent school shootings, do what inner city schools do: install metal detectors and auto lock doors. You never hear about school shootings in Detroit or Chicago because of the security measures in place. And if those poorer districts can afford those things, middle class white suburbs can too.
Handguns are responsible for most deaths. And while I support an automatic weapon ban, I don't think it would have much of an impact on school shootings. The Sandy shooter had two glocks which he could have killed as many children with, if not more; yet 100% of the focus is on the AR-15. Because of that it feels like this is more political than policy based. I'm glad Biden has talked to so many sides of this debate, especially mayors and law enforcement; they recognize the major issue is illegal guns.
If you want to prevent school shootings, do what inner city schools do: install metal detectors and auto lock doors. You never hear about school shootings in Detroit or Chicago because of the security measures in place. And if those poorer districts can afford those things, middle class white suburbs can too.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I was just thinking that the absolute absurdity of this statement, made in full sincerity, really highlights the issue of guns in the US and how ridiculous the situation is.
How about we try to prevent all shootings? Not just the ones in schools?
On that note:
I don't see why schools are against a police officer in schools. It's better than security cameras. You still have to watch the cameras which is only a preventative measure rather than an active one. Someone still has to be paid. This wouldn't solve issues like the elementary shooting.
In bigger cities, they always have security guards hanging around in the hallways, and they have a police station near every university college. They can't not have this, it's too much of a security risk, and even having these police officers or security guards is a deterrent in practice. Check rates of every large college and see how many crimes of those are gun related (hint: almost none, they're very rare. The highest are alcohol, drugs, and assault/battery)
Anecdotal, I feel safer knowing that someone's there simply to protect me.
I don't see why schools are against a police officer in schools. It's better than security cameras. You still have to watch the cameras which is only a preventative measure rather than an active one. Someone still has to be paid. This wouldn't solve issues like the elementary shooting.
In bigger cities, they always have security guards hanging around in the hallways, and they have a police station near every university college. They can't not have this, it's too much of a security risk, and even having these police officers or security guards is a deterrent in practice. Check rates of every large college and see how many crimes of those are gun related (hint: almost none, they're very rare. The highest are alcohol, drugs, and assault/battery)
Anecdotal, I feel safer knowing that someone's there simply to protect me.
CharlieDigital
Banned
So you're for a police state? That's your solution?
You're taking my reasoning to an extreme. I'm not and never going to argue for a police state. If anything, a redistribution of the existing police force to have more of a presence on school property.
Aside, is there a good article to read up on the debt ceiling? I wish to learn more about it but I am unsure which place explains it best.
Hrm. I was not aware of those. Thank you.
Fort Hood?
I think it's interesting the markets weren't moved at all by Obama's admission that Republican's are gonna let us hit the debt ceiling.
I'm not necessarily against officers in schools -- pretty sure mine had them. But there were officers at columbine. Virginia tech had its own police department. Fort Hood was.. at a military base. The shooters were still able to do immense damage. It's not a fix.
CharlieDigital
Banned
The shooting at Fort Hood a couple years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting
By that logic (More police/guns solves the problem) we should put police in every movie theater, mall, and grocery store. It's a slippery slope that people take to the extreme and equate to a police state where you can't do anything without being checked by guards. It's an extreme irrational end point for that argument. More cops in schools isn't the answer in my opinion though.
I'm not saying more police is the answer, but how does having police officers in schools make the US a police state?
CharlieDigital
Banned
What happens when there is a shooting in a grocery store? The mall? Your neighborhood park? Movie theaters? Political rallies?
What's the solution?
More police? More guns?
PhoenixDark
Banned
And Chicago has strict gun laws, what's your point? You can't dismiss the idea simply because it is not 100% effective. Does anyone think an AWB would have stopped Sandy? It wouldn't have considering the weapons he had with him, yet most here still want an AWB.
Many inner city schools have security guards, I see no reason for suburban schools not to follow the same play book. I think we're slowly moving away from the suburban parent mindset that guards and metal detectors might make little Jimmy feel like a prisoner/criminal. I've participated in city/town councils where that argument dominated discussion even after Columbine; I think we've reached a saturation point of shootings where these parents now recognize imitating Detroit schools in terms of security is no longer a bad idea.
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