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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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M

Mike M

Nick N
Jooney said:
Obama to announce that 34K, or approx half of all troops in Afghanistan, to be home by year's end.

Good.



They did this before the election, too. Basically pinning the defence cuts as part of the sequester deal as "Obama's plan".
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Shadow Hog said:
They were pulling that shit back in the days leading up to the 2012 election, too, so it doesn't surprise me that they're sticking with it.

The sad thing is, somebody might actually be fooled by this obvious fact distortion.
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I think the "Obamaquester" meme is new, though.

And yeah, people are going to be fooled. If nothing else, the GOP is excellent at messaging and framing debate.
 
K

KingK

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I don't think we're on the same wavelenght at all here.

1) I never said that.

2) I never implied that.

3) I think Dems need to continue make the case to the public, and to connect better, which I have said.

I agree, so I'm not sure if you are arguing with me or not.


Likewise....


Dems have been arguing this. They've also been muddying their own message by agreeing to cuts, so yeah. I agree they should drop the latter.



No argument there, it's been terrible for public discourse.
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I had gotten the impression from your posts that you thought the Dems didn't have any problems with selling their plan on jobs and that there was nothing more they could do because of Republicans in congress refusing to give their votes. I agree that there's no way it passes with Republicans in the majority. I'm mostly arguing that they could have done and should be doing a much better job framing their arguments about jobs and getting their message across, mainly by trying to fight back against all this deficit nonsense that's been leading the news cycle for months on end instead of fully embracing it. I think if they would have done this months ago, they could have had a better shot at taking back the House so that we wouldn't need to worry about Republican votes.

If we agree on this then I have no idea what we're arguing about lol.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Guileless said:
Pres. Obama passed a stimulus bill without a single Republican vote in 09 that did not have the predicted effect and was vulnerable to criticism as conventional pork moreso than well-designed short-term stimulus.

I am familiar with the "it would've been worse without it" argument, but that rarely convinces anyone that doesn't already agree with the premise.
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Is this like how "the cannon didn't create enough velocity to put the ball into orbit" doesn't sell to somebody who thinks the earth is flat?
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Stinkles said:
I believed it right up until they infer it's a movement for stupid people to be manipulated by powerful politicians and special interests. That seems like a stretch. Tea Party feels authentic and smart, with good ideas and great proposals.
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Futurama_Fry_Looking_Squint.jpg
 
K

KingK

Member
Tim-E said:
It's a State of the Union address; not E3. Obama is not Iwata. He's not supposed to use a speech to drop megatons.
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You're right, he's not Iwata. More like Kaz Hirai judging by this montage/dubstep trailer.

Copernicus said:
SOTU Trailer...from whitehouse.gov.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JwuEnyV1Cb0

No spoilers please.

I also never knew that congress camped out for hours for SOTU seats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...46d-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html?hpid=z1
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G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
The funny thing is, the sequester cuts were triggered because the "Super Congress" failed to come to an agreement.

Here was the stated goal of the committee:
To come up with at least $1.5T in deficit reductions over 10 years.

Here is what the democrats came to the table with:
$3T in deficit reductions - $1.8T in spending cuts, $1.2T in new revenues

Here is what republicans came to the table with:
$1.2T in deficit reductions - $900B in spending cuts, $300B in additional revenues. It did this by eliminating Medicare, cutting taxes in the top marginal bracket by $1T over 10 years (top marginal rate reduced from 35% to 28%), and increasing taxes on the lower and middle class by $1.3T.


Here is what the white house proposed:
$4T in deficit reductions - $2.8T in spending cuts, $1.2T in new revenues.


the GOP, of course, killed the whole thing because they objected to raising taxes.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
GaimeGuy said:
the GOP, of course, killed the whole thing because they objected to raising taxes.
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They had no problem with raising payroll taxes.
They object raising taxes on the rich, but they sure love them some "base broadening" of the tax code (which is code for raising tax on poor people).
 
J

Jooney

Member
GaimeGuy said:
The funny thing is, the sequester cuts were triggered because the "Super Congress" failed to come to an agreement.

Here was the stated goal of the committee:
To come up with at least $1.5T in deficit reductions over 10 years.

Here is what the democrats came to the table with:
$3T in deficit reductions - $1.8T in spending cuts, $1.2T in new revenues

Here is what republicans came to the table with:
$1.2T in deficit reductions - $900B in spending cuts, $300B in additional revenues. It did this by eliminating Medicare, cutting taxes in the top marginal bracket by $1T over 10 years (top marginal rate reduced from 35% to 28%), and increasing taxes on the lower and middle class by $1.3T.


Here is what the white house proposed:
$4T in deficit reductions - $2.8T in spending cuts, $1.2T in new revenues.


the GOP, of course, killed the whole thing because they objected to raising taxes.
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Great summation, thanks.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Hm, I wonder if the White House or anyone else will be offering a subtitled stream of the SOTU tonight...I just realized that the time places it smack in the middle of a class, and I'm going to try and watch surreptitiously on my computer
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Tim-E said:
It's a State of the Union address; not E3. Obama is not Iwata. He's not supposed to use a speech to drop megatons.
Click to expand...
Millions of people are going to be watching, if not now then when? If it's just going to be about counting how many times he says debt or freedom or Israel or military then damn everyone to hell.
 
K

kehs

Banned
The Technomancer said:
Hm, I wonder if the White House or anyone else will be offering a subtitled stream of the SOTU tonight...I just realized that the time places it smack in the middle of a class, and I'm going to try and watch surreptitiously on my computer
Click to expand...

Whitehouse/youtube has closed captions. The full speech transcript is usually posted like fifteen minutes right before though.


...

fb-page-branding-state-of-the-union-v2-0.png
 
T

Touchdown

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
Millions of people are going to be watching, if not now then when? If it's just going to be about counting how many times he says debt or freedom or Israel or military then damn everyone to hell.
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Have you seen SOTU speeches before? They aren't half as exciting as they should be. I'm only looking forward to crazy camera shots of Nugent. lmao
 
X

XenodudeX

Junior Member
What exactly is the point for doing a job centric SOTU address when the Republicans are just going to blow it off when it's finished?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Tim-E said:
It's a State of the Union address; not E3. Obama is not Iwata. He's not supposed to use a speech to drop megatons.
Click to expand...

WHY THE HELL NOT? :mad:

I want my goddamn SMG3 trailer!

Then I want Biden to jump on Mitch McConnell's head.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Touchdown said:
Have you seen SOTU speeches before? They aren't half as exciting as they should be. I'm only looking forward to crazy camera shots of Nugent. lmao
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A few yes. But given the situation the country is in right now, Obama needs to step it up. He won't though. That's why I'm not staying awake for it.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
”Exerpts from Marco Rubio's speech:

  • “This opportunity – to make it to the middle class or beyond no matter where you start out in life – it isn’t bestowed on us from Washington. It comes from a vibrant free economy where people can risk their own money to open a business. And when they succeed, they hire more people, who in turn invest or spend the money they make, helping others start a business and create jobs. Presidents in both parties – from John F. Kennedy to Ronald Reagan – have known that our free enterprise economy is the source of our middle class prosperity. But President Obama? He believes it’s the cause of our problems.”
  • “Mr. President, I still live in the same working class neighborhood I grew up in. My neighbors aren’t millionaires. They’re retirees who depend on Social Security and Medicare. They’re workers who have to get up early tomorrow morning and go to work to pay the bills. They’re immigrants, who came here because they were stuck in poverty in countries where the government dominated the economy. The tax increases and the deficit spending you propose will hurt middle class families. It will cost them their raises. It will cost them their benefits. It may even cost some of them their jobs. And it will hurt seniors because it does nothing to save Medicare and Social Security. So Mr. President, I don’t oppose your plans because I want to protect the rich. I oppose your plans because I want to protect my neighbors.
  • “Economic growth is the best way to help the middle class. Unfortunately, our economy actually shrank during the last three months of 2012. But if we can get the economy to grow at just 4 percent a year, it would create millions of middle class jobs. And it could reduce our deficits by almost $4 trillion dollars over the next decade. Tax increases can’t do this.Raising taxes won’t create private sector jobs. And there’s no realistic tax increase that could lower our deficits by almost $4 trillion. That’s why I hope the President will abandon his obsession with raising taxes and instead work with us to achieve real growth in our economy.”
  • “The real cause of our debt is that our government has been spending 1 trillion dollars more than it takes in every year. That’s why we need a balanced budget amendment. The biggest obstacles to balancing the budget are programs where spending is already locked in. One of these programs, Medicare, is especially important to me. It provided my father the care he needed to battle cancer and ultimately die with dignity. And it pays for the care my mother receives now. I would never support any changes to Medicare that would hurt seniors like my mother. But anyone who is in favor of leaving Medicare exactly the way it is right now, is in favor of bankrupting it.”
  • “Despite our differences, I know that both Republicans and Democrats love America. I pray we can come together to solve our problems, because the choices before us could not be more important. If we can get our economy healthy again, our children will be the most prosperous Americans ever. And if we do not, we will forever be known as the generation responsible for America’s decline.”
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Exerpts from Rand Paul's speech:

  • We are the party that embraces hard work and ingenuity, therefore we must be the party that embraces the immigrant who wants to come to America for a better future. We must be the party who sees immigrants as assets, not liabilities. We must be the party that says, 'If you want to work, if you want to become an American, we welcome you.’
  • The path we are on is not sustainable, but few in Congress or in this Administration seem to recognize that their actions are endangering the prosperity of this great nation.
  • Both parties have been guilty of spending too much, of protecting their sacred cows, of backroom deals in which everyone up here wins, but every taxpayer loses. It is time for a new bipartisan consensus. It is time Democrats admit that not every dollar spent on domestic programs is sacred. And it is time Republicans realize that military spending is not immune to waste and fraud.
  • Not only should the sequester stand, many pundits say the sequester really needs to be at least4 trillion to avoid another downgrade of America's credit rating. Both parties will have to agree to cut, or we will never fix our fiscal mess.
  • Washington acts in a way that your family never could – they spend money they do not have, they borrow from future generations, and then they blame each other for never fixing the problem.
Click to expand...
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Rubios speech hits all the right chords. Obama better bring his campaign mode on stage or Hillary is going to have a hard time. The press desperately wants to paint Rubio as the GOP's savior. If Obama let's him overshadow this...
 
S

Snake

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
Rubios speech hits all the right chords. Obama better bring his campaign mode on stage or Hillary is going to have a hard time. The press desperately wants to paint Rubio as the GOP's savior. If Obama let's him overshadow this...
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I didn't know that Diablos moved to the Netherlands.
 
K

kehs

Banned
They should just have Rand Paul give the Republican response and have Rubio do real time translation into hispanish.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Oblivion said:
Holy carp. So Jon Chait's been having a little fun the past week or so giving Joe Scarborough somewhat of a rough time on account of his not knowing anything, and Joe decided he didn't like being made fun of:

https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/301116632191885312

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/joe-scarborough-hates-moms-powerpoint.html

There's so many amazing things encapsulated in that one tweet alone.
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Oh, man, cosign. I hate being awake in the morning with nothing to do but watch tv. PBS has already changed gears into kids-mode too which leaves me adrift. :(
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Dan said:
”Exerpts from Marco Rubio's speech:
Click to expand...

“Economic growth is the best way to help the middle class. Unfortunately, our economy actually shrank during the last three months of 2012. But if we can get the economy to grow at just 4 percent a year, it would create millions of middle class jobs. And it could reduce our deficits by almost $4 trillion dollars over the next decade.
Click to expand...

“The real cause of our debt is that our government has been spending 1 trillion dollars more than it takes in every year. That’s why we need a balanced budget amendment.
Click to expand...

Fucking idiot.


PROMOTE JOB GROWTH. DECREASE SPENDING. COME ON OBUMMER!
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
CUT SPENDING TO ZERO - FULL EMPLOYMENT

“The real cause of our debt is that our government has been spending 1 trillion dollars more than it takes in every year.
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If only somebody could add two and two together.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Black Mamba said:
Fucking idiot.


PROMOTE JOB GROWTH. DECREASE SPENDING. COME ON OBUMMER!
Click to expand...

This opportunity – to make it to the middle class or beyond no matter where you start out in life – it isn’t bestowed on us from Washington. It comes from a vibrant free economy
Click to expand...

I could write a goddamn essay but suffice to say I disagree pretty heavily with this sentiment and every premise extrapolated from it.

EDIT: Oh god
“The real cause of our debt is that our government has been spending 1 trillion dollars more than it takes in every year. That’s why we need a balanced budget amendment. The biggest obstacles to balancing the budget are programs where spending is already locked in. One of these programs, Medicare, is especially important to me. It provided my father the care he needed to battle cancer and ultimately die with dignity. And it pays for the care my mother receives now. I would never support any changes to Medicare that would hurt seniors like my mother. But anyone who is in favor of leaving Medicare exactly the way it is right now, is in favor of bankrupting it.”
Click to expand...

I think I actually saw a bit of red when I read this
 
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