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[Carpe Libertatem]

That said, I'm also unconvinced Roberts changed his mind in terms of outcome in the ACA. Roberts record is actually economically liberal in court cases, especially with federal power to regulate commerce (he's conservative on everything else but not this). If anything, I think he changed his stance on allowing the ICC to give the power since Kennedy didn't go for it and went with the tax power to escape conservative criticism on ICC. I think he was always for it. Kennedy was the one that surprised me, I thought it was going to be 6-3 to uphold the ACA.

Roberts's ruling sets a precedent that severely limits the power of coercive federalism for the future. In the grand scheme of things, conservative should like it because of that. And if ACA is as bad as they say, it would be repealed no question, legislatively (it won't because it's not a bad law, though).

 

[Link]

In a debate with Richard Dawkins, Francis Collins, and Daniel Dennett, Carson stated he doesn't believe in evolution: "I don't believe in evolution...evolution says that because there are these similarities, even though we can't specifically connect them, it proves that this is what happened."[7]

I don't understand this train of thought. He acknowledges Neanderthals, Cro-Magnons, etc. exist, but refuses to believe Homosapians evolved from them? Besides their existence contradicting what the Bible says in the first place, does he think they all just magically died off when Adam and Eve popped up?

 

[PhoenixDark]

You can tell Woodward got shut out of the WH after his last book and is still butthurt. That being said I'm shocked anyone from the WH would email such a stupid comment to him. Seems like such a stupid, juvenile thing to do and all it does is extend the story.

Woodward is wrong on the facts, multiple people have pointed that out. I'd let him keep banging the bell because no one cares outside of the Beltway.

 

[adamsappel]

Haha, loved the "I thought you weren't a Republican" shot back!

How does one register as a "conservative"? Must be difficult to vote in primaries, then.

I respect Erickson in the sense that he's not fake or trying to steal his sudience's money. He's a true believer and won't change even if his preferred candidate loses the next three elections in a row. The conservative "movement" is so full of con men (Dick Morris, Glen Beck, Karl Rove, etc) who clearly don't believe their own bullshit, and focus on fleecing their audience. I may not like anything Erickson believes policy wise but at least he's honest. I'd say the same of Rick Santorum.

They're also easier to invalidate.

Personally I've just always preferred to deal with honest people who are up front about their views. I'd much rather deal with a blatantly racist person than someone pretending otherwise; in fact I wound up having a good conversation with a white supremacist on this issue a few years ago, and he even shook my hand.

It's funny that a known troll is saying this.

In all honesty, I wouldn't say the South is necessarily more racist than the rest of the Nation.

I think that people might be more vocal about it.

Please. Please. You can't be serious. You are either from the south and are lying to yourself, or you have never been to the south. And you are certainly not a black guy from the south.

I know David Brooks isn't racist, but why wouldn't Obama feel comfortable or fall into place at an Applebee's? I don't get his original point.

All those campaign stops in little diners, eating burgers, drinking a beer, getting bear hugs, and Obama isn't considered a "man of the people"? And the GOP nominates an awkward, wealthy robot.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

You can tell Woodward got shut out of the WH after his last book and is still butthurt. That being said I'm shocked anyone from the WH would email such a stupid comment to him. Seems like such a stupid, juvenile thing to do and all it does is extend the story.

Woodward is wrong on the facts, multiple people have pointed that out. I'd let him keep banging the bell because no one cares outside of the Beltway.

Twitter does. They right wingers are already jumping on the fact that this proves obama controls the media.

I think woodword jumped the shark when he went on hannity last year. Lost all credibility. Watergate was a long time ago.

 

[Piecake]

Just so they could incarcerate them a few years later.

Slavery by Another Name

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So yea Woodward took the quote out of context.

Digging into one of his famous folders, Woodward said the tirade was followed by a page-long email from the aide, one of the four or five administration officials most closely involved in the fiscal negotiations with the Hill. “I apologize for raising my voice in our conversation today,” the official typed. “You’re focusing on a few specific trees that give a very wrong impression of the forest. But perhaps we will just not see eye to eye here. … I think you will regret staking out that claim.”

That's clearly referring to the fact he will be proven wrong. That's not a threat as Woodward is taking it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/woodward-at-war-88212.html

 

[RustyNails]

That's clearly referring to the fact he will be proven wrong. That's not a threat as Woodward is taking it.

So wrong. Obama already dispatched his thugs who are driving from Chicago to DC in his malcolm x mobile with black panther goons to finally silence woodward..

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So wrong. Obama already dispatched his thugs who are driving from Chicago to DC in his malcolm x mobile with black panther goons to finally silence woodward..

‏@jamescdownie
TWIST: In "kill list" memo, Justice Dept. lawyers admitted "perhaps we just do not see eye-to-eye with al-Aulaqi."

Also for some reason I read that as Malcolm in the Middle

 

[Amir0x]

I seriously to this day continue to be shocked at how retarded so many members of the media are. A journalist, writing is important, and yet is completely unable to understand context.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I seriously to this day continue to be shocked at how retarded so many members of the media are. A journalist, writing is important, and yet is completely unable to understand context.

The Funniest thing was watching it on twitter.

After his CNN interview the Right Wing was all over Obama and the media for being in collution to bring down Woodward. Now radio silence ever since the full quote came out.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

He's the reporter for KOSU, Oklahoma State's NPR station.

I've been posting his Twitter reports from the legislature for the last couple of days.

One of my favorites from today:


The argument from Republicans is that there are too many fraudulent claims, and the example the senator uses is a case that was thrown out by the workers' comp as fraudulent. Doesn't that prove that the current system of courts is functioning as intended?

This is basically "Tort Reform" Part Deux. They're eliminating carpal tunnel as a valid workers' comp claim, and setting maximum limits on how much a person can be compensated for other types of work-related injuries (in addition to lowering the worker's pay from 100% to 70% for time missed).

Really pisses me off.

Which is why I don't get why a lot of working poor support Republicans (I kinda do, religion and a sense "morality" being one).

 

[Lucky Forward]

Is Ben really a conservative nutbag? I never even really knew he was into politics. It would tarnish my image of him if I found out it was true I always respected him growing up around Baltimore.

Does this sound like something a nutbag would say?

Even if you accept evolutionary theory–developing a more sophisticated organism in this theoretically “logical” fashion, then there should be a continuum of organisms. And why did evolution divert in so many directions–birds, fish, elephants, apes, humans–if there is some force evolving to the maximum? Why isn’t everything a human–a superior human?

http://afarensis99.wordpress.com/20...st-quote-of-the-week-ben-carson-on-evolution/

 

[Clevinger]

Which is why I don't get why a lot of working poor support Republicans (I kinda do, religion and a sense "morality" being one huge reason)

And effective, wide-spread propaganda.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Which is why I don't get why a lot of working poor support Republicans (I kinda do, religion and a sense "morality" being one).

Racism as well. They were democrats by and large and supported the new deal until civil rights. Obviously there are other factors but racism and the southern strategy'

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?
Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."[4]

 

[speculawyer]

Does this sound like something a nutbag would say?

http://afarensis99.wordpress.com/20...st-quote-of-the-week-ben-carson-on-evolution/

How can people be so smart and so stupid at the same time? I don't understand it.

 

[RustyNails]

How can people be so smart and so stupid at the same time? I don't understand it.

If nothing else, it tells you that rationality and intelligence are controlled by two different parts of brain. You can be a neurosurgeon but still be a die hard libertarian randian freak.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Reading about the limitations that they put into welfare in the '50's and 60's such as not having males around, really puts that racial agenda into perspective and how it's still being perpetuated by the welfare queen myth.

 

[speculawyer]

And effective, wide-spread propaganda.

I don't think propaganda is so effective other than getting people who already believe your view to back you up.

I think the GOP is an unstable mix of
-Businessmen that don't want to pay taxes nor union wages
-religious true believers
-Nativists/Racists
-Military officers/contractors & gun nuts

There is a lot of cross-over between those groups but some discord as well.

But the working poor mostly support the GOP on the religious & gun stuff. Though many of them have (much to their own detriment) have bought into the anti-tax stuff. These poor people think brown people are living off the meager taxes those poor conservative people pay. In reality, those poor conservative people are paying much less than their fair share to pay for the military and the social programs that they will use (student loans, social security, mortgage deduction, medicare, etc.)

People just don't know the real numbers. It is like the fact that they all think that the US spends 20+% of the budget on foreign aid.

 

[speculawyer]

If nothing else, it tells you that rationality and intelligence are controlled by two different parts of brain. You can be a neurosurgeon but still be a die hard libertarian randian freak.

I can understand the Randian freak stuff. That is basic human greed. He could think "fuck the poor, let them die . . . my money is my money". But a doctor that rejects evolution? What the fuck is with that? I guess I can chalk it up to him being old and thus not knowing much of the modern molecular biology evidence.

 

[Piecake]

I can understand the Randian freak stuff. That is basic human greed. He could think "fuck the poor, let them die . . . my money is my money". But a doctor that rejects evolution? What the fuck is with that? I guess I can chalk it up to him being old and thus not knowing much of the modern molecular biology evidence.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around a doctor being a hardcore randian freak. I mean, they're helping the poor (for money), but if they truly wanted to fuck them over, they could just have easily became a lawyer and made the same, if not more, money

 

[PhoenixDark]

Racism as well. They were democrats by and large and supported the new deal until civil rights. Obviously there are other factors but racism and the southern strategy'

I think that basic, almost unwritten understanding has crumbled to a point where republicans cannot win elections on it alone anymore. Part of the GOP division we're seeing now is due to the old guard of strategists that continued Atwater's work into the 90s and 2000s (Rove) being completely confused on how to proceed. They threw every nativist dog whistle at Obama and still lost in 2008. Then they threw all that again last year, plus an onslaught of corporatist money - and still lost.

Overturning part of the VRA certainly helps republicans more than it hurts, but ultimately it won't sway national elections enough to beat back the party's demographic problem. There was a lot of talk on whether 2012 might be the last election where a party could win the White House solely by dominating the white vote; in hindsight perhaps it's more accurate to say 2004 was. I'm not saying the GOP is completely fucked and will never win again, they could win in 2016 afterall. But their transition window has effectively been closed imo. This version of the GOP is unelectable, even with VRA tricks or long voting lines.

 

[Clevinger]

I don't think propaganda is so effective other than getting people who already believe your view to back you up.

I think the GOP is an unstable mix of
-Businessmen that don't want to pay taxes nor union wages
-religious true believers
-Nativists/Racists
-Military officers/contractors & gun nuts

I disagree. That propaganda got me when I was young and had to listen to the radio for work. I know it did the exact same to my brother, but he never questioned it like I ended up. Neither of my parents were interested in politics until they started watching Fox News, then they became rabid Republicans.

You're missing a huge competent: working class whites. They get shitty work pay, shitty hours, shitty expensive health care, a shitty economy etc. And then at work or on the way to work they hear on the radio that it's all the unions fault. They hear all their tax money is going to welfare queens. They hear that their health insurance is shitty because it's overregulated. They hear work is hard to find because illegal immigrants are taking all of it.

It's effective. These people need something to hate for all the shitty things in their life, and that propaganda fills that hole. It's the liberals, the poor, the government, the illegals, the all powerful unions.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Woodward is going on Hannity tomorrow!

Of course no one is actually talking about the sequester and how to stop it.

 

[Clevinger]

Woodward is going on Hannity tomorrow!

Well, that's one way to piss away whatever credibility he had left.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I think that basic, almost unwritten understanding has crumbled to a point where republicans cannot win elections on it alone anymore. Part of the GOP division we're seeing now is due to the old guard of strategists that continued Atwater's work into the 90s and 2000s (Rove) being completely confused on how to proceed. They threw every nativist dog whistle at Obama and still lost in 2008. Then they threw all that again last year, plus an onslaught of corporatist money - and still lost.

Overturning part of the VRA certainly helps republicans more than it hurts, but ultimately it won't sway national elections enough to beat back the party's demographic problem. There was a lot of talk on whether 2012 might be the last election where a party could win the White House solely by dominating the white vote; in hindsight perhaps it's more accurate to say 2004 was. I'm not saying the GOP is completely fucked and will never win again, they could win in 2016 afterall. But their transition window has effectively been closed imo. This version of the GOP is unelectable, even with VRA tricks or long voting lines.

Aren't most of the states under VRA in the South anyway? As far as presidential elections go, it probably won't help them much there. It would almost certainly let them hold onto the House a little bit longer, though.

Democrats need to go all-in on winning the Virginia's governor race in 2013 to prevent any more redistricting funkiness, which would be encouraged moreso if VRA was overturned. I don't know how badly gerrymandered their House of Delegates map is but if they won that and just one more seat in the Senate they could enact fair maps. I think they'd have pretty long odds winning the gubernatorial elections in any other VRA state though (TX, GA, AZ, AL, AK, MS, SC, LA).

I wonder how successful Democrats would be at rebuilding their party in the South if they made a conscious effort at it starting say, tomorrow. Battleground Texas is a good start, it's headed by some OFA people.

 

[Maninthemirror]

The right only have Woodward temporarily. The left will eviscerate his reputation once the Republicans have no use for him. Wait and Watch, big mistake by him these past few weeks. in a few weeks Dan Rather will come out as clean compared to what Woodward will face

 

[Tamanon]

Please. Please. You can't be serious. You are either from the south and are lying to yourself, or you have never been to the south. And you are certainly not a black guy from the south.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying there isn't racism in the South, I'm saying there's more racism in the rest of the nation than people seem to think. And it's not necessarily just racism against black people.

 

[Incognito]

You can tell Woodward got shut out of the WH after his last book and is still butthurt. That being said I'm shocked anyone from the WH would email such a stupid comment to him. Seems like such a stupid, juvenile thing to do and all it does is extend the story.

Woodward is wrong on the facts, multiple people have pointed that out. I'd let him keep banging the bell because no one cares outside of the Beltway.

Naw. I think what's juvenile is Woodward complaining about the "threatening" email. Surely as someone who has been covering the White House for some 40 years now he's been on the receiving end of some kitchen sink correspondence from White House flunkies. And as many other journalists have attested to and pointed out, this is almost a daily occurrence in the day of the life. I agree that Woodward is butthurt but I don't think Gene Sperling sending an email to Woodward was all together stupid on the WH's part.

 

[cashman]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around a doctor being a hardcore randian freak. I mean, they're helping the poor (for money), but if they truly wanted to fuck them over, they could just have easily became a lawyer and made the same, if not more, money

Obviously he's not in the mindset that he wants to fuck the poor over. He's a successful religious guy coming from a poor background. He had a decent amount of sheltering and parenting despite being in poverty and thinks that anybody can overcome the odds like he did.

 

[sc0la]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around a doctor being a hardcore randian freak. I mean, they're helping the poor (for money), but if they truly wanted to fuck them over, they could just have easily became a lawyer and made the same, if not more, money

Even greedy self centered people want others to have positive images of them. Doctors generally have good public images, lawyers generally don't.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

You're missing a huge competent: working class whites. They get shitty work pay, shitty hours, shitty expensive health care, a shitty economy etc. And then at work or on the way to work they hear on the radio that it's all the unions fault. They hear all their tax money is going to welfare queens. They hear that their health insurance is shitty because it's overregulated. They hear work is hard to find because illegal immigrants are taking all of it.

It's effective. These people need something to hate for all the shitty things in their life, and that propaganda fills that hole. It's the liberals, the poor, the government, the illegals, the all powerful unions.

I worked a guy like that when I was in retail. He was the definition of a sucker.

 

[Link]

I think that basic, almost unwritten understanding has crumbled to a point where republicans cannot win elections on it alone anymore. Part of the GOP division we're seeing now is due to the old guard of strategists that continued Atwater's work into the 90s and 2000s (Rove) being completely confused on how to proceed. They threw every nativist dog whistle at Obama and still lost in 2008. Then they threw all that again last year, plus an onslaught of corporatist money - and still lost.

Overturning part of the VRA certainly helps republicans more than it hurts, but ultimately it won't sway national elections enough to beat back the party's demographic problem. There was a lot of talk on whether 2012 might be the last election where a party could win the White House solely by dominating the white vote; in hindsight perhaps it's more accurate to say 2004 was. I'm not saying the GOP is completely fucked and will never win again, they could win in 2016 afterall. But their transition window has effectively been closed imo. This version of the GOP is unelectable, even with VRA tricks or long voting lines.

Even ignoring all the ignorance the party is currently suffering from, the GOP's longterm problem is that instead of being more progressive, all their up-and-coming young "stars" are extreme right-wingers. It's exactly the opposite of what they need to not become completely irrelevant.

 

[Chichikov]

The GOP needs ideas, they have nothing to run on.

 

[Aaron]

The GOP needs ideas, they have nothing to run on.

Not their fault. Obama keeps stealing their ideas, so they have to vote against them.

 

[Jack Remington]

You guys see this editorial in the WSJ today by Phil Gramm?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578327792209356054.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

Basically says that the sequester isn't a even a thing, and that Obama is bullshitting everyone about how damaging it will be. He throws in the "if households can make the tough choices, why can't the government?" line at some point as well.

The whole thing just seems so wrong-headed, but so much so that I'm having trouble articulating particular reasons why this is the case.

 

[KtSlime]

I was thinking about it earlier today - conservative thought, and realized that there is no way their kind of thinking can improve the world. They think the peek of civilization, culture, morality, etc, exists sometime in the past. To improve the world, one would have to think that better things are yet to come. (Yeah, this was probably obvious to everyone already)

Piecake: I haven't seen that documentary yet, thanks for the link.

 

[Link]

You guys see this editorial in the WSJ today by Phil Gramm?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578327792209356054.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

Basically says that the sequester isn't a even a thing, and that Obama is bullshitting everyone about how damaging it will be. He throws in the "if households can make the tough choices, why can't the government?" line at some point as well.

The whole thing just seems so wrong-headed, but so much so that I'm having trouble articulating particular reasons why this is the case.

Remember when the Wall Street Journal was a respectable publication?

 

[sc0la]

I had someone at work tell me we were currently experiencing "hyper inflation" today,and that increasing the minimum wage would make it worse.

I literally looked up the data for inflation since 1914 and showed it to him on my phone. And he said "well it's not high this second, but it has been positive for 30 years. It should be zero but we keep printing money"

...

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Trying to explain the monetary system to people like that is like trying to teach a dog a card trick.

Also, bring up the monetarist experiment of the '70's and what that caused

 

[FLEABttn]

It should be zero but we keep printing money

Anyone who thinks inflation should be zero knows nothing of economics and needs to be kept away from positions of influence

 

[Chichikov]

I had someone at work tell me we were currently experiencing "hyper inflation" today,and that increasing the minimum wage would make it worse.

I literally looked up the data for inflation since 1914 and showed it to him on my phone. And he said "well it's not high this second, but it has been positive for 30 years. It should be zero but we keep printing money"

...

Fun game to play in those situations is to inquire why inflation is bad.

 

[sc0la]

Fun game to play in those situations is to inquire why inflation is bad.

Doh! I should have thought of this

 

[B-Dubs]

Fun game to play in those situations is to inquire why inflation is bad.

I love doing that. If they bring up a negative you should bring up a positive and explain why a little inflation is a good thing. It shuts them right up.

 

[Chichikov]

I love doing that. If they bring up a negative you should bring up a positive and explain why a little inflation is a good thing. It shuts them right up.

If you have a fixed rate mortgage try and see what high inflation can mean to you, and after that you get to shut people up with numbers!

 

[B-Dubs]

If you have a fixed rate mortgage try and see what high inflation can mean to you, and after that you get to shut people up with numbers!

I'm confused, I haven't got a mortgage (I'm renting) so I don't get the reference. Unless I'm remembering my economics classes wrong, inflation devalues money which causes debts to be easier to pay off. If I'm remembering wrong don't hate me.

 

[eBay Huckster]

And note that the other national embarrassment hasn't made any comments about this.

To be fair, the other national embarrassment never makes comments about anything.

 

[speculawyer]

You guys see this editorial in the WSJ today by Phil Gramm?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578327792209356054.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

Basically says that the sequester isn't a even a thing, and that Obama is bullshitting everyone about how damaging it will be. He throws in the "if households can make the tough choices, why can't the government?" line at some point as well.

The whole thing just seems so wrong-headed, but so much so that I'm having trouble articulating particular reasons why this is the case.

Well, as the lead guy of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, he can go get fucked. Why would anyone listen to the guy that helped bring on the financial collapse. Are we going to go back to listening to Bill Kristoll for foreign policy advice too? He is a Shithead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm–Leach–Bliley_Act

BTW, we should have let UBS fail just to fuck him.

 

[Black Mamba]

You guys see this editorial in the WSJ today by Phil Gramm?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578327792209356054.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

Basically says that the sequester isn't a even a thing, and that Obama is bullshitting everyone about how damaging it will be. He throws in the "if households can make the tough choices, why can't the government?" line at some point as well.

The whole thing just seems so wrong-headed, but so much so that I'm having trouble articulating particular reasons why this is the case.

Like I said, the GOP keeps falling for the trap laid out by Obama.

They refuse to accept new revenue in a deal and are now touting the sequester and a good thing. They tried for months to pin it on Obama and now abandoned that (since it didn't work) and are actually owning the sequester. They love it.

And when it hurts people, it will be them who people remember as saying it's a good thing.

Own it and they will sink more with it.

Remember when the Wall Street Journal was a respectable publication?

They still are when you ignore the editorials.

I'm confused, I haven't got a mortgage (I'm renting) so I don't get the reference. Unless I'm remembering my economics classes wrong, inflation devalues money which causes debts to be easier to pay off. If I'm remembering wrong don't hate me.

You are correct which is his point. Inflation higher than predicted is better for borrowers and bad for loaners. You pay back the person with less valuable money than you thought you would. Hence, fixed rate mortage + higher inflation than expected = cheaper mortgage.

I love doing that. If they bring up a negative you should bring up a positive and explain why a little inflation is a good thing. It shuts them right up.

You can also ask how inflation can be zero for a long time when our population has never stopped growing.

 

[Piecake]

I was thinking about it earlier today - conservative thought, and realized that there is no way their kind of thinking can improve the world. They think the peek of civilization, culture, morality, etc, exists sometime in the past. To improve the world, one would have to think that better things are yet to come. (Yeah, this was probably obvious to everyone already)

Piecake: I haven't seen that documentary yet, thanks for the link.

Its excellent. Everyone should watch it. Pretty shocking stuff if all you know about reconstruction came from high school history class